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[werothegreat]

Shhh!  Be vewy qwiet!  I'm hunting wabbits!

-Is this really worth ?
-What are the best targets for Pathfinding?
-Do any other Events work well with it?

[transportowiec96]

It's worth it's cost. It can be very powerful, especially with nonterminal drawers like laboratory, lost city, and also with cantrips

The cards you want to target for pathfinding are nonterminal drawers or cards which you have a lot. This event really likes Magpie, since it gains copies of itself, and when you play it with token on it, it's basicially a lab+draw treasure or gain copy of lab.

Lost Arts likes this event. You can now upgrade terminal drawers into nonterminal drawers that draw more cards. You can make nonterminal HG that draws 5 cards, and you may play another one. Imagine something like this KC'd.

[JThorne]

I think the key element is to do some math to calculate how much benefit you're getting. This event is at its best with the cheapest cantrip possible. If you can open with some sort of +coin/+buy and piledrive Pearl Divers or Pawns, Pathfinding turns them all into Labs with upside; you go from a bunch of 2-cost cards to 5-cost+ cards and start drawing your deck much faster than buying village/terminal engine parts. Of course, the trouble there is that you're not helping your deck much in the meantime. Have a plan: Nomad Camp, Silver, Copper, Copper, Pawn for coin+card gets you to 8 if the card is a Copper. With 4-5 Pawns, you're in business (...maybe. It's shuffle 3: Do you know where your Estates are?)

By contrast, putting this on Lab or Stables is often gilding the lily. You've already spent gobs of turns and coin on premier one-card-engine cards that are probably already drawing your deck or close to it, and pathfinding them can result in you drawing more cards than are in your deck, which is a waste of resources. Spending time and turns to build an engine that draws twice as many cards as there are in your deck is kind of the flip side of the Village Idiot. (The Smithy Idiot? Or is that someone who buys too many terminal draw cards and complains every time there's a collision?)

And let's not forget the object of the game. If you skip your first province buy to do this, how sure are you that the result will be a post-pathfinding double-buy to make up for the loss of tempo to your opponent? Or, failing, that, a deck that buys a province a turn without stalling when your opponent is playing a strategy that is almost certain to stall after a reshuffle?

Yes, +card is amazing, and yes, it's almost always worth it, but at that price point, know when to ignore it.

[Jack Rudd]

The cheapest cantrip possible is often Peddler. Imagine a game like the one where some guy gained eight peddlers on turn 7, and now think what he can do with Pathfinding.

[JThorne]

Imagine a game like the one where some guy gained eight peddlers on turn 7, and now think what he can do with Pathfinding.

I assume he bought 8 Peddlers on turn 7, because you don't get the discount with gainers other than HoP (Sorry, this is just me trying to fit into the Dominion Community of Pedants. It's hard to resist.) But anyway, Pathfinding Peddlers might be way more cards than you need. With a little trashing and a card like Hamlet, you can piledrive the Peddlers in no time. But: Do you have 16 coin in your deck (including the Peddlers?) If not, then you still have to buy more money, THEN you can start getting double-buys. If you skip two guaranteed Province buys (8 plain-old Peddlers will get you a Province a turn in their sleep) in order to build up to double-buys, then you would need THREE double-buys to make up for the lost tempo. If Pathfinding Peddlers is the plan, make sure you have 16 coin in your deck first, otherwise...

With Pathfinding: Turn 8:Pathfinding, 9:Money, 10:double Province, 11: double Province, 12: double Province
Without: Turn 8:Province, 9:Province, 10:Province, 11:Province, 12:Province

I've lost plenty of games where I've attempted to build up to double-buys and succeeded in doing so, but lost to plain, old single buys.

Like so many things, Pathfinding is only good when it's faster than the alternative.

For me, learning to play Dominion has been a long process of learning to do the most efficient thing rather than the coolest thing. Putting Pathfinding on just about anything is pretty high up the coolness scale.

[Accatitippi]

Imagine a game like the one where some guy gained eight peddlers on turn 7, and now think what he can do with Pathfinding.

I assume he bought 8 Peddlers on turn 7, because you don't get the discount with gainers other than HoP [...]

I'll pedantly point out that after you buy something, you gain it. So, gaining can be used as an umbrella term for both buying-then-gaining and gaining-without-buying.

Buying-without-gaining is also possible with Trader (fun interactions with Noble Brigand and other on-buys!).

[JThorne]

I'll pedantly point out that after you buy something, you gain it.

I believe the word you're looking for is "pedantically."

(*ducking*)

[Jack Rudd]

Imagine a game like the one where some guy gained eight peddlers on turn 7, and now think what he can do with Pathfinding.

I assume he bought 8 Peddlers on turn 7, because you don't get the discount with gainers other than HoP (Sorry, this is just me trying to fit into the Dominion Community of Pedants. It's hard to resist.)

His first five buys that game were Silver, Trade Route, Worker's Village*2 and Mine. On turn 7, he drew them all together, and the Silver became a Talisman. Hey presto, eight Peddlers.

[JThorne]

His first five buys that game were Silver, Trade Route, Worker's Village*2 and Mine. On turn 7, he drew them all together, and the Silver became a Talisman. Hey presto, eight Peddlers.

Awesome. I calculate the odds of the opening 5 buys colliding spontaneously on turn 7 to be about 0.5% (not including the two cards drawn by the villages.)

That beats my favorite luckout, which was roughly 3% odds, opening Tournament, Silver, and on turn 3, spiking 7 coin (requiring my opening buys in the top half of the deck and all three Estates in the bottom half.) With the 7 coin, I inherited Magpie. Magpie, Magpie, Magpie, Province. Oh, look! A Followers prize! I'll draw two cards, give everyone a curse, and gain another pseudo-Magpie. Hooray!

I do enjoy how game-warping some of the events can be. Pathfinding is certainly on that list.

[mameluke]

Someone just tried to convince me that putting Pathfinding on Royal Carriage (then calling them all on Monument) was better than Pathfinding Scheme. Oookay.

[faust]

Someone just tried to convince me that putting Pathfinding on Royal Carriage (then calling them all on Monument) was better than Pathfinding Scheme. Oookay.

Royal Carriage is a stronger card than Scheme, so if you're short on gains, this may be true.

[tailred]

Have a plan: Nomad Camp, Silver, Copper, Copper, Pawn for coin+card gets you to 8 if the card is a Copper.

That's a terrible plan! You've got 2 terminals if you're playing Pawn for card+coin >.<

[DG]

Someone just tried to convince me that putting Pathfinding on Royal Carriage (then calling them all on Monument) was better than Pathfinding Scheme. Oookay.

You generally want to amass the cards from piles with tokens. Collecting 10 royal carriages may have been more productive than collecting 10 schemes.

[Aleimon Thimble]

Someone just tried to convince me that putting Pathfinding on Royal Carriage (then calling them all on Monument) was better than Pathfinding Scheme. Oookay.

You generally want to amass the cards from piles with tokens. Collecting 10 royal carriages may have been more productive than collecting 10 schemes.

Scheme is a pretty nice card to amass if Pathfinding is on the board. It's pretty much an Alchemist that doesn't need a Potion (neither to buy it nor to topdeck it).

[JThorne]

Someone just tried to convince me that putting Pathfinding on Royal Carriage (then calling them all on Monument) was better than Pathfinding Scheme. Oookay.

Was this someone suggesting using the coin to buy Provinces, or playing a starvation deck?

(Is there another name for that? I just remember that if both players are playing something like KC-KC-Monument-Monument-Monument to pile up points without ever greening, the game never ends, and the official ruling is that the game ends when one player starves to death.)

[Chris is me]

Someone just tried to convince me that putting Pathfinding on Royal Carriage (then calling them all on Monument) was better than Pathfinding Scheme. Oookay.

Was this someone suggesting using the coin to buy Provinces, or playing a starvation deck?

(Is there another name for that? I just remember that if both players are playing something like KC-KC-Monument-Monument-Monument to pile up points without ever greening, the game never ends, and the official ruling is that the game ends when one player starves to death.)

I don't think I'd call it a starvation deck, because barring identical guarantees point production, eventually the score diverges enough that somebody can stop and safely pile out over several turns. I guess I'd just call it a self-scoring deck, or something.

[Accatitippi]

It's a form of golden deck, isn't it?
Or is "golden deck" specific for the Bishop variant of that thing?

Anyway, a deck of 5+ pathfound RCs and a Monument can beat a lot of things, it all depends on how fast you can get it going (trash down to 4 stop cards, and grab the Carriages and Pathfinding)
If trashing is not that good, PF-Scheme is pretty neat.

[werothegreat]

Someone just tried to convince me that putting Pathfinding on Royal Carriage (then calling them all on Monument) was better than Pathfinding Scheme. Oookay.

Was this someone suggesting using the coin to buy Provinces, or playing a starvation deck?

(Is there another name for that? I just remember that if both players are playing something like KC-KC-Monument-Monument-Monument to pile up points without ever greening, the game never ends, and the official ruling is that the game ends when one player starves to death.)

I don't think I'd call it a starvation deck, because barring identical guarantees point production, eventually the score diverges enough that somebody can stop and safely pile out over several turns. I guess I'd just call it a self-scoring deck, or something.

You can always resign.

[LaLight]

Someone just tried to convince me that putting Pathfinding on Royal Carriage (then calling them all on Monument) was better than Pathfinding Scheme. Oookay.

Was this someone suggesting using the coin to buy Provinces, or playing a starvation deck?

(Is there another name for that? I just remember that if both players are playing something like KC-KC-Monument-Monument-Monument to pile up points without ever greening, the game never ends, and the official ruling is that the game ends when one player starves to death.)

I don't think I'd call it a starvation deck, because barring identical guarantees point production, eventually the score diverges enough that somebody can stop and safely pile out over several turns. I guess I'd just call it a self-scoring deck, or something.

You can always resign.

And go eat smth

[mameluke]

It's a form of golden deck, isn't it?
Or is "golden deck" specific for the Bishop variant of that thing?

Anyway, a deck of 5+ pathfound RCs and a Monument can beat a lot of things, it all depends on how fast you can get it going (trash down to 4 stop cards, and grab the Carriages and Pathfinding)
If trashing is not that good, PF-Scheme is pretty neat.

Yeah, this is the thing. It's too slow. There were no extra gains except for Expand, and I got PF-Scheme up very quickly, especially by Expand Copper -> Scheme. There's no surprise I won the Province pile 7-1. I don't think he played it especially well, but even if you want to go the Monument route, PF-Scheme can do that too, since you're top-decking all of your Schemes and you can draw your deck more easily than RC can.

[JThorne]

Or is "golden deck" specific for the Bishop variant of that thing?

I think a "golden deck" refers to any deck build that is fundamentally guaranteed to do exactly the same thing every turn regardless of shuffle luck. I think it can even be "engine-y" such as a deck of ten Groundskeepers, a Sacrifice and an Estate.

The wiki has the following:

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Golden_deck

So I think that even though you don't always start with the same hand, you can always get the same draws, which means it doesn't have to be a 5-card deck.

[brokoli]

I love the fact that :
Lost arts ($6) on Laboratory ($5) = +2 cards, +2 actions, cost $11
Pathfinding ($8) on village ($3) = +2 cards, +2 actions, cost $11.

[werothegreat]

I love the fact that :
Lost arts ($6) on Laboratory ($5) = +2 cards, +2 actions, cost $11
Pathfinding ($8) on village ($3) = +2 cards, +2 actions, cost $11.

Except it's cheaper in the long run to put Pathfinding on Village.

[Davio]

I used Pathfinding on Guide once, it still worked sort of.

But this is totally worth $8, especially if you can take advantage of it the very next turn. It loves cheap cantrips.