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[werothegreat]

BAH HUMBUG

It's auto-Pirate Ship!
-Is Miser too slow?
-What cards like Miser?  What cards help Miser?
-How many Misers do you want?

[Chris is me]

Miser is too slow. It's a slower payoff than either Mine or Moneylender, which is saying a lot, but obviously it is more useful than either of them later on.

The biggest problem is that for the first half of the game it is basically a terminal action that says "Trash a Copper". Garbage, right? And when it can eventually get a payload of +$5 or more, if given the choice I'd rather trash Copper faster with something else and just buy a few good payload cards.

If you have a slow game, with engine potential and +Buy, sure... But those are basically contradictory premises. Colony games I guess.

[transportowiec96]

Miser is good for slog games and games where you want to keep hitting a certain amount of like Duchy/Duke games. (There are still better cards for hitting though.) If you can get +action token for him, well, here you can easily get a lot of money by playing one card.

Miser likes Copper-giving junking attacks. They just make you have a better chance of coliding Miser with Copper. If you can trash down to 1-Miser-Deck, then you're surely netting a province each turn if you have 8 coppers on tavern. You can boost province buys by use of cantrip +buys and teachers/lost arts +action token on miser.

I prefer having two misers. The more misers you have, the faster you can put your coppers onto tavern, but getting too much of them will soon make you a hand of misers(+estates) without coppers.

[Garth One-eye]

I had a game recently where Miser was useful.
Scrying Pool, Oasis, Squire, Market, no trashing except for Miser.
I got down to a deck playing multiple $7 Misers consistently.

Granted, my opponent both ignored Scrying Pool and opened Miser, so I knew I had a lot of time.
So, it's possible Miser wasn't the best choice, but I think it was the funnest choice.

[mameluke]

I'm not sure how to make this less slow. Give it +1 action? Would that make it too good? Cost $3? Give it +$1, even if you put a Copper on your mat?
I guess the problem is that it it's like Pirate Ship, and Pirate Ship is also slow.

[Chris is me]

I'm not sure how to make this less slow. Give it +1 action? Would that make it too good? Cost $3? Give it +$1, even if you put a Copper on your mat?
I guess the problem is that it it's like Pirate Ship, and Pirate Ship is also slow.

I'd have to give it more thought than this, but what if it just gave you the money bonus AND let you put a Copper aside? It would clearly be very powerful sometimes, but it would still take a few shuffles to be more than a terminal Silver or Gold. Maybe the cost would need to be bumped up, or maybe you would have to get the coin before you put a new Copper on the mat, or maybe this would just be too crazy.

[Deadlock39]

Seems like it might work giving both bonuses, but in the games where it was good, it would definitely be crazy. If it gave the coins before moving the Copper, it would be the 4th play before it was equal to a Moneylender.  If there was a decent engine to build it would probably get extremely strong very fast.

Part of what makes it different from a card like Moneylender is that you are sacrificing utility during the early game for a larger payload at the end. Taking away or minimizing that weakness would change the card significantly.

[werothegreat]

I'm not sure how to make this less slow. Give it +1 action? Would that make it too good? Cost $3? Give it +$1, even if you put a Copper on your mat?
I guess the problem is that it it's like Pirate Ship, and Pirate Ship is also slow.

I'd have to give it more thought than this, but what if it just gave you the money bonus AND let you put a Copper aside? It would clearly be very powerful sometimes, but it would still take a few shuffles to be more than a terminal Silver or Gold. Maybe the cost would need to be bumped up, or maybe you would have to get the coin before you put a new Copper on the mat, or maybe this would just be too crazy.

Something like "+ per Copper on your Tavern mat.  You may put a Copper from your hand on your Tavern mat."

[Mavy2k]

It feels like the card only exists to compete with Scout for the worst 4$ card.

[Aleimon Thimble]

Miser is actually really underrated imo. It's a lot stronger than Pirate Ship because you help yourself thin instead of doing a weak attack on your opponent. The thinning, of course, is pretty weak in and of itself, but you generally want it in decks where Copper trashing is limited, but you still have a good use for a lot of terminal $ (and of course no overpowered quick megaturns or rushes).

It's really good if you get to play it often. Some of the good enablers include Throne Room variants, Prince, and sifters like Warehouse. Prince of Misers is absolutely insane - try it if you haven't.

[Davio]

But Prince is expensive and Miser is slow, so it can take a lot of time for that combo to come together and start paying off.

[markusin]

It feels like the card only exists to compete with Scout for the worst 4$ card.

I feel like Miser is a closer in strength to Trade Route. Sometimes even the slightest trashing helps in the long run, say for a Herald engine. Trade Route does cost $3 and has +buy though.

[gamesou]

If for some reason you can open Miser/Miser this becomes an option to consider. I had a board with Alms/Miser/Crossroads and the Miser deck was really very fast.

[Jack Rudd]

It feels like the card only exists to compete with Scout for the worst 4$ card.

I feel like Miser is a closer in strength to Trade Route. Sometimes even the slightest trashing helps in the long run, say for a Herald engine. Trade Route does cost $3 and has +buy though.

Ah yes, Herald. Herald really likes this card, because it is a pseudotrasher that has no negative consequences if your Herald hits it.

[jomini]

Miser loves boards with nice sifting, and strong engine support. There is a massive premium for increasing the rate at which you can hit Miser. University, Ironworks, Workshop, etc. can all allow you to build an engine without needing as much early cash so Miser can thin out ever quicker. Cards like Warehouse and Scheme are also very useful for getting you to high value Misers quickly. Events, like Mission or Expedition all can make Miser help you thin out that much faster.

And of course Miser shines insanely well with limited draw Engines - Wt, Lib, Menage, maybe even Jack all make for strong Miser play by allowing you to draw back the lost buying power and having disappearing cash is clutch on those boards. For similar reasons, I like Miser on Tactician boards.

Ultimately, Miser is like Trade route - a very slow trasher you power up - but one that your opponents cannot draft off. Not a crazy powerful thing, but decent on most any engine board that lacks other trashing.

[Ankenaut]

What cards help Miser? Seaway and Lost Arts

[GendoIkari]

I had trouble making decisions on what to do when playing Miser... do I want right now, or do I want to make the rest of my Miser plays worth ?

[werothegreat]

I had trouble making decisions on what to do when playing Miser... do I want right now, or do I want to make the rest of my Miser plays worth ?

This is why it works nicely with Throne Room variants, particularly Royal Carriage.

[eHalcyon]

I had trouble making decisions on what to do when playing Miser... do I want right now, or do I want to make the rest of my Miser plays worth ?

This is why it works nicely with Throne Room variants, particularly Royal Carriage.

So you can choose between $10 now, $6 now and every Miser in the future, or $7 on every Miser in the future?

[J Reggie]

After playing with this card more and seeing people play with it online, I have more opinions about it. I think it's very underrated, and you want two of them early. It makes up for the loss of early economy with its massive payload later. It's especially good when there are cheaper engine components you can be buying or gaining while you're thinning. Also, you almost always want to put a copper on the mat is you can; having that copper there and getting a $3 card just seems way better than getting a $5 card.

Some things to look for with Miser are cheap non-terminals, especially villages and +buy, and ways to gain lots of cheap engine components, like Alms or Ironworks. It's also a good target for the +buy and +action tokens. I'm excited to see more of this card as Adventures comes online; I really think the public opinion of it will rise.

[GendoIkari]

I had trouble making decisions on what to do when playing Miser... do I want right now, or do I want to make the rest of my Miser plays worth ?

This is why it works nicely with Throne Room variants, particularly Royal Carriage.

So you can choose between $10 now, $6 now and every Miser in the future, or $7 on every Miser in the future?

You missed an option, you can also choose $5 now and $6 on all future Misers. Which could be the right move, thanks to Storyteller.

[Doom_Shark]

I agree that TR variants make this card very good.I still like opening miser copper, then getting a second miser. (Or if alms is out, then get two misers right away and buying the one copper later.) Then find an excuse to chain the misers, puttung yourself at a province per play. And I woll also say that these guys love mountebank, especially when the curses run out.

[Aleimon Thimble]

I agree that TR variants make this card very good.I still like opening miser copper, then getting a second miser. (Or if alms is out, then get two misers right away and buying the one copper later.) Then find an excuse to chain the misers, puttung yourself at a province per play. And I woll also say that these guys love mountebank, especially when the curses run out.

I don't think opening Miser/Copper is any good. Miser is slow enough already, adding another Copper will make it even slower.

[Seprix]

I'd think it's better to open Miser/Village, buy Miser T3/4 if possible, and then just thin out asap.

[GendoIkari]

I agree that TR variants make this card very good.I still like opening miser copper, then getting a second miser. (Or if alms is out, then get two misers right away and buying the one copper later.) Then find an excuse to chain the misers, puttung yourself at a province per play. And I woll also say that these guys love mountebank, especially when the curses run out.

Yeah this doesn't sound right... Miser is good when it can get rid of your copper... you don't need to make it worth $8, and even if you did want that, you would want to get that last copper way later, when you've cleared out your starting 7 and can draw your deck.