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[Davio]

I had an idea for a card.

Thrift Shop - $3
Action

+1 Action
Put a card from your hand on the Thrift Shop mat; or take all cards from the Thrift Shop mat into your hand.

The thrift shop mat is a shared mat so when players take cards from it, they also take cards that were put there by other players.
During the early game, it acts just like a regular trasher, say Forager, but there are certain points when the amount of Coppers and Estates reaches a tipping point. You can even add Curses to sweeten the pot!

When it hits $8 Coppers, it's a guaranteed Province, but you can even take it with less Coppers so that your opponent can't use it to get a Province.

[tristan]

This is quite similar to a card of mine with the main difference being that the mat is shared.
I like the interactive tension about your card.

[ipofanes]

Two thoughts:

It's a bit like a reverse Lookout: weak at the start, strong towards the end. Which means that if there are genuine trashers in the kingdom, the Thrift Store loses its appeal at the end of the game.

The +Action is a true boon as it leaves room for doing something with the stuff. Got two dead Stables in hand? Off you go. Vault, Artificer, even Storyteller shine with this. Cellar just got better than Warehouse. Are you a Hamlet idiot? Not to be worried anymore, ready yourself for the final turn with lots of buys.

[AdrianHealey]

Two thoughts:

It's a bit like a reverse Lookout: weak at the start, strong towards the end. Which means that if there are genuine trashers in the kingdom, the Thrift Store loses its appeal at the end of the game.

The +Action is a true boon as it leaves room for doing something with the stuff. Got two dead Stables in hand? Off you go. Vault, Artificer, even Storyteller shine with this. Cellar just got better than Warehouse. Are you a Hamlet idiot? Not to be worried anymore, ready yourself for the final turn with lots of buys.

Sounds like an argument in favor of the card to me, no?

[transportowiec96]

Good idea! I'd call it a hybrid of miser and forager. But still, it's has a weak trash, when you place a copper there, you're generally giving up that 1$ of your economy. I mean, when you use steward/chapel, you trash more cards, no? With forager you can get extra coins for trashing estates if copper is trashed first. At first thought, possession might just place your provinces into the mat, but what's the problem? All you have is to take them back on your normal turn. But now, the problem is when there are curses on that mat. You're generally going to take extra cards which you have to give back/trash. Still, points for the idea!

[ipofanes]

Two thoughts:

It's a bit like a reverse Lookout: weak at the start, strong towards the end. Which means that if there are genuine trashers in the kingdom, the Thrift Store loses its appeal at the end of the game.

The +Action is a true boon as it leaves room for doing something with the stuff. Got two dead Stables in hand? Off you go. Vault, Artificer, even Storyteller shine with this. Cellar just got better than Warehouse. Are you a Hamlet idiot? Not to be worried anymore, ready yourself for the final turn with lots of buys.

Sounds like an argument in favor of the card to me, no?

It was rather an attempt at a "works with" synopsis. I fear that it wouldn't fill up with decent trashers in the kingdom, as most of your junk would go to the trash rather than the store. My fear is that it would be rather situational, less situational than Pirate Ship or Counting House maybe. But keep in mind that a 4 token Pirate Ship rewards you every time it's played, the Counting House gives you $5 or $6 once in a while, whereas Thrift Store only treats you once in the game, unless your opponent comes first.

[Gveoniz]

What if you just uses the trash directly?

+1 Action
Trash a card from your hand ; or gain all cards (costing 2 or less) from the trash, putting them into your hand.

[Davio]

Well, the trash can have lots of cards that weren't voluntarily put there.

Restraining the cost seems so artificial.

I considered allowing to put up to 2 cards on the mat which makes it quite stronger.

[Dingan]

I like the idea.  Would on-gain effects happen?  And if so, would they only happen for cards you didn't put there, or what?

[GendoIkari]

I like the idea.  Would on-gain effects happen?  And if so, would they only happen for cards you didn't put there, or what?

I think this is a problem with the card as worded. The cards pretty clearly aren't "gained" when you pull them off the mat. But it's not clear whether they are "lost" when you put them on the mat. I think that by the literal rules, a card that you put on the mat would still be yours, and would return to your deck for end-game scoring. But this is impossible as you can't track which cards you put there are which one you didn't. Especially if they end up in an opponent's deck. I think the version that interacts with the trash fixes all these issues.

[Accatitippi]

I like both the 2-cards-per-play hypothesis and the trash one (with cost limits - they do not seem artificial, and "up to 2" complements nicely Rogue and Graverobber).
The property of cards on the mat can be clarified by the rules, in a similar way to other elements that are shared between players. (like how the trade route mat works).

Yet, of the two, I prefer the trash one since it has more interesting interactions with other trashers (in particular tfb that has some use for Estates, and similar stuff)

The only risk is that it could make some slogs really painful, since the ability to spike Province is probably too good to pass on (in particular since it's you or your opponent, and your deck isn't going to get hurt that badly anyway), but comes at a terrible cost in terms of game length.

[yuma]

Third option could be to move a card from the trash pile to the thrift shop mat.

So if you had two in hand could gain a good card from the trash that way, or risk moving it to gain on another turn.

But I wouldn't like this card if it dealt strictly with the trash as others have proposed. But I think it would be great as is.

+1 Action
Put a card from your hand on the Thrift Shop mat; move a card from the trash pile to the Thrift Shop mat; or take all cards from the Thrift Shop mat into your hand.

[Thanar]

I considered allowing to put up to 2 cards on the mat which makes it quite stronger.

I think changing it to "Put up to 2 cards from your hand..." makes it a great card, one that I'd definitely playtest.

[ipofanes]

I considered allowing to put up to 2 cards on the mat which makes it quite stronger.

That would solve the competing trasher problem, in a 4-3 opening I would buy it over Steward in most kingdoms, possibly over Chapel. Might be OP, but could be priced with a similar reasoning as Chapel: If Thrift Market is in the kingdom, you want it to spice almost every game with its endgame boon.   

[tristan]

I think that by the literal rules, a card that you put on the mat would still be yours, and would return to your deck for end-game scoring. But this is impossible as you can't track which cards you put there are which one you didn't. Especially if they end up in an opponent's deck. I think the version that interacts with the trash fixes all these issues.

These are no rule issues. The wording makes it crystal clear that the mat is shared so the cards on them do no longer belong to your deck.
You have far more control over the mat content than the trash-content which makes the interaction less random. This is why the original version is better.

[Davio]

I think that by the literal rules, a card that you put on the mat would still be yours, and would return to your deck for end-game scoring. But this is impossible as you can't track which cards you put there are which one you didn't. Especially if they end up in an opponent's deck. I think the version that interacts with the trash fixes all these issues.

These are no rule issues. The wording makes it crystal clear that the mat is shared so the cards on them do no longer belong to your deck.
You have far more control over the mat content than the trash-content which makes the interaction less random. This is why the original version is better.

Yeah, I think it works like Masquerade where cards just appear and disappear without being gained or trashed. They're just exchanged between your hand and the mat. You don't "gain" cards on your NV mat either. They're just out of your deck and transferred to a new special area. Currently, the transferring of cards is atomic, nothing can intercept it. Only a hypothetical reaction "when you have less than X cards in your hand" or "when you have more than X cards in your hand" can break it.

[GendoIkari]

I think that by the literal rules, a card that you put on the mat would still be yours, and would return to your deck for end-game scoring. But this is impossible as you can't track which cards you put there are which one you didn't. Especially if they end up in an opponent's deck. I think the version that interacts with the trash fixes all these issues.

These are no rule issues. The wording makes it crystal clear that the mat is shared so the cards on them do no longer belong to your deck.

What wording? The original wording is "Put a card from your hand on the Thrift Shop mat; or take all cards from the Thrift Shop mat into your hand." The further rules clarifications, which would be defined separately in a rulebook, stated that the Thrift Shop mat is a shared mat. There's still nothing in the Dominion rules that cause the card to stop being "yours". There's 3 ways in Dominion for a card to stop being yours: You trash it, you return it to the supply with Ambassador, or you pass it with Masquerade. You would have to add a 4th way: putting it on the Thrift Shop mat.

Which is fine, a new card can add a new rule like that. But it DOES need a new rule; the card itself doesn't work without a new rule.

[GendoIkari]

You don't "gain" cards on your NV mat either. They're just out of your deck and transferred to a new special area.

This isn't quite right, cards on the NV mat are still yours; they are still part of your deck. They're just set aside, like a Horse Traders that has just been revealed.

[ipofanes]

Yeah, I think it works like Masquerade where cards just appear and disappear without being gained or trashed. They're just exchanged between your hand and the mat. You don't "gain" cards on your NV mat either.

You mean I cannot "gain" all the cards from the trash, reveal Trader and boost my Feodums? /s

[AdrianHealey]

If it's a shared mat, there are two options:

All cards on the map have to be counted to all the decks at the end of the game
or
the cards have to be counted towards none of the decks at the end of the game.

I actually think the first one would be cooler.

However, this is also a bit iffy. The person who buys the last province or whatever can (if he has a thrift shop in his hand) also activitate it to put all of them in his hand. (Which is either attractive (if there are curses) or not (if there aren't.)

[Davio]

You don't "gain" cards on your NV mat either. They're just out of your deck and transferred to a new special area.

This isn't quite right, cards on the NV mat are still yours; they are still part of your deck. They're just set aside, like a Horse Traders that has just been revealed.

That's awkward wording, the first part refers to NV, the second to the card I proposed.

[Davio]

If it's a shared mat, there are two options:

All cards on the map have to be counted to all the decks at the end of the game
or
the cards have to be counted towards none of the decks at the end of the game.

I actually think the first one would be cooler.

However, this is also a bit iffy. The person who buys the last province or whatever can (if he has a thrift shop in his hand) also activitate it to put all of them in his hand. (Which is either attractive (if there are curses) or not (if there aren't.)

Cards on the thrift shop mat are considered out of the game until a player puts them into their hand. That's the most straightforward rule I think.

[AdrianHealey]

If it's a shared mat, there are two options:

All cards on the map have to be counted to all the decks at the end of the game
or
the cards have to be counted towards none of the decks at the end of the game.

I actually think the first one would be cooler.

However, this is also a bit iffy. The person who buys the last province or whatever can (if he has a thrift shop in his hand) also activitate it to put all of them in his hand. (Which is either attractive (if there are curses) or not (if there aren't.)

Cards on the thrift shop mat are considered out of the game until a player puts them into their hand. That's the most straightforward rule I think.

I don't disagree (similar to the trash), but it would be an interesting mechanism to have it as a shared mat, also for end game conditions.

[Accatitippi]

If it's a shared mat, there are two options:

All cards on the map have to be counted to all the decks at the end of the game
or
the cards have to be counted towards none of the decks at the end of the game.

I actually think the first one would be cooler.

However, this is also a bit iffy. The person who buys the last province or whatever can (if he has a thrift shop in his hand) also activitate it to put all of them in his hand. (Which is either attractive (if there are curses) or not (if there aren't.)

Cards on the thrift shop mat are considered out of the game until a player puts them into their hand. That's the most straightforward rule I think.

"Out of the game" is a bit confusing, I think smple "cards on the thriftshop mat are not in any player's deck" works the same and doesn't make cards disappear

All cards on the map have to be counted to all the decks at the end of the game
or
the cards have to be counted towards none of the decks at the end of the game.

I actually think the first one would be cooler.

Problem is, the only difference is that scoring gets bogged down, but it will rarely matter when it comes to determining the winner. Everybody geting 6 points gives the same net result as everybody getting none. It would only matter when players have different amounts of Garden-like alt-vp.

[Co0kieL0rd]

I like the idea a lot but $3 is way too expensive for it as-is; (1) because it's weaker than any other trasher for $3 or weaker than almost any card for $3 in general at the beginning of the game, and (2) other players using different methods of trashing can join in late on the Thriftshop buisiness and take away all cards from the mat and spike a Province without having had to put up with a slow trasher.
Changing it to putting up to 2 cards on the mat seems okay but I think I'd also be interesting if the card cost $0. $2 would also work but for maximum fun you want like all the Thriftshops to be in people's decks as quickly as possible to make sure the mat content gets exchanged constantly. At least that's what I think would be fun.