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Author Topic: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger  (Read 23384 times)

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werothegreat

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Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« on: March 02, 2016, 08:25:41 am »
+4


YOU GET A CURSE
AND YOU GET A CURSE
AND EVERY- wait, I get a Curse, too :(

It's jsh's favorite card!
-How often do you buy this in a game?
-What are the best cards to gift to everyone?
-How useful is the on-play ability?
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2016, 09:21:54 am »
+1

YOU GET A CURSE
AND YOU GET A CURSE
AND EVERY- wait, I get a Curse, too :(

This is for you liopoil.... but no Curse with a Watchtower in hand.  :)
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Limetime

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2016, 09:23:06 am »
0

YOU GET A CURSE
AND YOU GET A CURSE
AND EVERY- wait, I get a Curse, too :(

This is for you liopoil.... but no Curse with a Watchtower in hand.  :)
You still get a curse it just goes in the trash.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2016, 09:36:42 am »
+2

YOU GET A CURSE
AND YOU GET A CURSE
AND EVERY- wait, I get a Curse, too :(

This is for you liopoil.... but no Curse with a Watchtower in hand.  :)
You still get a curse it just goes on top of your deck.
FTFY
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Limetime

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2016, 09:45:25 am »
+3


YOU GET A SCOUT
AND YOU GET A SCOUT
AND EVERY- wait, I get a SCOUT, too :(
FTFY
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Chris is me

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2016, 10:24:22 am »
0

Every time I try to use this card I just end up helping my opponents more than me because we all get a good card but I'm also stuck with a Chancellor.

I like it in friendly games with friends who are bad at dominion because I can gift them the cards they need to improve their deck :)

In a four player game if Messenger is on the table you can pile out very fast. Combine it with Stonemason and the game is over in like 8 turns lol
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GendoIkari

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2016, 10:43:57 am »
0

Messenger can be insane with City, or really it's City that can be insane with Messenger. Especially if playing more than 2 players. Buy Messenger to pass Messengers; drain pile quickly.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2016, 10:45:37 am »
+18

Another interesting interaction... I opened Messenger last time I played, mostly because there wasn't much else in way of options. I didn't really know what to give; didn't care to give anything... so I gave Silver. Seemed like the safe choice. Then the next player proceeded to lay down $5 and buy Mint. I told her "you realize that you now only have $2 in your deck ri... oh, crap."
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Mavy2k

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2016, 10:50:08 am »
0

The best use I can think of is gifting your opponent a potion, when he has already gotten one and you do not.
But you won´t be very happy with the card in your deck either, unless there is no other card with +buy.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2016, 11:25:46 am »
+2

Jack Rudd plays Village
...drawing a card and getting +2 Actions
Jack Rudd plays Highway
...drawing a card and getting +1 Action
Jack Rudd plays Black Market
...gaining +2 coins and revealing Fool's Gold, Treasure Map and Messenger
...playing 1 Copper and buying a Messenger
...gaining Lost City
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2016, 11:36:36 am »
0

I feel like messenger has the same problem that embargo has. You have to make it benefit you more than your opponent.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2016, 11:40:08 am »
+1

I feel like messenger has the same problem that embargo has. You have to make it benefit you more than your opponent.

But if you can do it, it's not a problem.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2016, 11:48:42 am »
+3

The best use I can think of is gifting your opponent a potion, when he has already gotten one and you do not.
But you won´t be very happy with the card in your deck either, unless there is no other card with +buy.

I feel like I'd actually want a Chancellor with +buy when I'm trying to stockpile Potion cards, at least early on.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2016, 12:57:25 pm »
+3

Most of what I've seen people say about this card is it's useful in mirrors to give your opponent a copy of a card they only need one of (such as Potion or Chapel). I feel like it's much more useful in non-mirrors, giving your opponent a card they clearly don't need, like a village when they're playing a slog or a silver when they're trying to get super thin. It won't usually actively hurt their deck, but the second card helps you much more than it does them, especially if you already needed Messenger in your deck. Simply, I think Messenger will be most useful when it helps you and doesn't particularly help your opponent, more so than trying to hurt your opponent.

One thing to note is this is one of the Adventures cards I've played with the least, so most of this is assumption. I'm now putting this on my list of cards to try to include next Friday night (Dominion night yay!)

eHalcyon

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2016, 01:03:42 pm »
0

I feel like messenger has the same problem that embargo has. You have to make it benefit you more than your opponent.

But if you can do it, it's not a problem.

Right.  On both Embargo and Messenger this is a feature, not a bug.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2016, 01:09:46 pm »
+6

As the Secret History of Adventures states, this started out as…

Quote
Messenger: Action, $4
+1 Buy
+$2

When you buy this, gain a card costing up to $4, and each other player gains a copy of it.

I suggested adding the Chancellor bit, but while the Secret History says I suggested it to make the top less boring, I actually suggested it to make the top less weak. Woodcutter is already a very weak $3 card, and Messenger had to cost more because of the on-buy "bonus".

I think that, in the absence of better cheap terminals, Woodcutter-Chancellor can be pretty sweet. You could say, "That's true of any cheap terminal", but I mean that I think it's significantly better than Woodcutter, Chancellor, Navigator, etc. The +Buy and the deck acceleration work well in tandem to let you shuffle multiple new cards into your deck immediately, especially cantrips and Lab variants.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2016, 01:15:13 pm »
0

Overall, I feel that this card will suck on most boards. Simply put, if you want a card, chances are your opponent wants it as well.

Chancellor and Woodcutter aren't great cards.

The original version is pretty funny though since you could essentially empty out three piles by buying out all the Messenger's. That's actually pretty strong!

In its current form, I just don't know what to make of it. In irl games I've played with it, I pretty much avoid it unless it is the only source of +Buy.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 01:17:18 pm by Beyond Awesome »
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Dingan

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2016, 01:31:25 pm »
0

This could very well be an attack card.  How is
"other players gain a card costing $4 or less"
intrinsically any different than
"other players gain a Curse"
or
"other players gain any card" (Ambassador)?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 01:32:53 pm by Dingan »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2016, 01:33:52 pm »
+4

This could very well be an attack card.  How is
"other players gain a card costing $4 or less"
intrinsically any different than
"other players gain a Curse"
or
"other players gain any card" (Ambassador)?


???

You do realize that you get a copy of the card too, right?
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Dingan

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2016, 01:35:20 pm »
0

This could very well be an attack card.  How is
"other players gain a card costing $4 or less"
intrinsically any different than
"other players gain a Curse"
or
"other players gain any card" (Ambassador)?


???

You do realize that you get a copy of the card too, right?

Yes.  If Witch was "Everyone gains a Curse" instead of "Everyone else gains a Curse", I would think it should still be an attack card.

EDIT: Minion. Everyone discards and draws 4.  It hurts you less (okay, and it usually helps you), but it is ultimately the same exact effect on everyone.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 01:36:54 pm by Dingan »
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2016, 01:41:03 pm »
+6

It's not an Attack because the effect is on-buy, not on-play. Moat doesn't know how to react to it.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2016, 02:01:40 pm »
+1

Chancellor and Woodcutter aren't great cards.

I guess what you're implying is that since they aren't great cards, the combination of them must also be not great. Otherwise why would you mention it? But I don't think that really follows. Fortune Teller isn't a great card either. Are you saying that if you added that attack to Messenger, it still wouldn't be a great card? What if you added five more little bonuses like that, which if attached to a terminal Silver would be weak. Would the end result still be weak overall?

Messenger might very well be on the weaker end of $3-$4 cards, but your line of reasoning here is fallacious.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2016, 02:20:07 pm »
+3

Another interesting interaction... I opened Messenger last time I played, mostly because there wasn't much else in way of options. I didn't really know what to give; didn't care to give anything... so I gave Silver. Seemed like the safe choice. Then the next player proceeded to lay down $5 and buy Mint. I told her "you realize that you now only have $2 in your deck, because the gifting effect only happens when messenger is played"

FTFY

You should read the card again...
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Donald X.

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2016, 03:13:07 pm »
+6

There are various cute little combos, but I think there are two main situations in which people buy Messenger.

The first is when they want a Woodcutter. This is far from rare. And when you get it, the when-buy is cute, you don't know what to give people. Pick something you want, that's my advice.

The second is to empty piles. In multiplayer, a jsh357 can empty piles so very fast with this.

Turn 2 it's a little more attractive going later in the turn order. Going last, you can get Messenger handing out Silver, maybe trying to hit $7 fast for Inheritance, and you shuffle in the Silver but the other players do not.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Messenger
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2016, 03:16:53 pm »
+3

It's nice to use Messenger to gain the last card in a pile, that way your opponents don't get anything.
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