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Author Topic: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Magpie  (Read 6880 times)

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werothegreat

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Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Magpie
« on: March 01, 2016, 09:19:01 am »
+2


One for sorrow, two for joy, three for... oh wait, I've got the entire pile.

It's the Rats-Lab!
-Is Magpie OP?
-Do you ever buy a second Magpie?
-Do you ever not buy a Magpie?
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Chris is me

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Magpie
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2016, 10:00:23 am »
0

Much better than Rats, obviously.

You should buy a second Magpie pretty often, as it's pretty easy for the first Magpie to "miss" several times and you're basically racing your opponent to miss first. Sometimes even a third Magpie.

Magpie's best synergy by far is with token cards. Pathfinding especially, which makes Magpie into a super-Laboratory that often gains more copies of itself. But even the +$1 or +1 Action tokens work great with it. Magpie is one of the strongest reasons to rush for Teacher.

This also increases your buying power on average in the first several turns, helping to hit $5 or $6 for key cards.
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AJD

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Magpie
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2016, 11:37:41 am »
0

Can someone explain to me what's so great about Magpie? I've only played a couple of games with it so I don't have a strong feel for it. Is the idea that you don't trash your Coppers in a Magpie game? Doesn't it anti–self-synergize? (It gains copies of itself, but the more Magpies you have the more likely it is to be a do-nothing cantrip.)
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Magpie
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2016, 11:57:35 am »
+1

Can someone explain to me what's so great about Magpie? I've only played a couple of games with it so I don't have a strong feel for it. Is the idea that you don't trash your Coppers in a Magpie game? Doesn't it anti–self-synergize? (It gains copies of itself, but the more Magpies you have the more likely it is to be a do-nothing cantrip.)
Because you can get a ton of them at no cost and they're sometimes a cantrip/Vagrant type thing which rarely hurts, but they can also be a lab!
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aku_chi

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Magpie
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2016, 02:05:27 pm »
+3

Because Magpie gains copies of itself, it does really well with the +bonus tokens and trash for benefit.  Magpie also benefits from deep topdeck inspection/arrangement (e.g. Cartographer, Apothecary, Secret Chamber Reaction, Opponents' Ghost Ship) and treasure discarding with overdraw (e.g. Stables, Plaza).

Putting those factors aside aside, how valuable it is depends on how many additional copies it gains, your deck's treasure density, and your deck's average treasure value.

Inputs:
M - Number of additional Magpies gained.
D - Density of treasure cards in deck (number of treasure cards / number of total cards).
T - Average value of all treasures in deck (e.g. 7 coppers, 4 Silvers, 1 Gold : T = 18 / 12 = 1.5).

Outputs:
N - Expected number of cards drawn by Magpie (and the Magpies it gained) in one trip through your deck.
V - Expected monetary value gained by Magpie (and the Magpies it gained) in one trip through your deck.

N = (1 + M) * D
V = N * T


Examples:
Low-Treasure Deck
M = 4
D = 0.2
T = 2.5
---
N = 1
V = 2.5
---
A single purchased Magpie that gained four additional copies of itself in a deck with a treasure density of 0.2 and an average treasure value of 2.5 would be expected to draw one treasure with an expected value of 2.5.
 
Moderate-Treasure Deck
M = 3
D = 0.5
T = 2
---
N = 2
V = 4
---
A single purchased Magpie that gained three additional copies of itself in a deck with a treasure density of 0.5 and an average treasure value of 2 would be expected to draw two treasures with an expected value of 4.

Conclusion:
Even in a deck with a low treasure density, Magpie can be valuable if uncontested.  If both players realize this, they will contest Magpie, at which point it won't be super valuable (excepting tokens and trash-for-benefit).  In a mixed action/treasure engine, Magpie is very valuable.  Strong silver gainers (Jack of All Trades, Amulet), gold gainers (Governor, Hero), and kingdom treasures (Counterfeit, Treasure Trove, Relic, Bank) encourage such decks.
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Mavy2k

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Magpie
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2016, 03:28:40 pm »
0

The card is obviously really strong with tokens, but this rarely would be the case.

I think I would open with this card most of the time to get as much free gains as possible. 2nd or 3rd probably only, if there is nothing else going on on the board. Every additional buy has less value. The first buy has a good chance of getting 3 of the cards, the 2nd gets you 2, if you are lucky and 3rd only one.
The chance of drawing a second card might be good enough by itself on some boards, but that doesn´t get me very excited.
I wouldn´t pick this over a $5 card, unless tokens.
Ideally you only want to buy one and gain those free "Wishing Wells".





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Donald X.

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Magpie
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2016, 03:35:00 pm »
+6

I had a memorable game vs. LastFootnote back when. Training was on the board. I went for Training on Market, he went for Training on Magpie. I won.

How could I have won that? He bought more than one Magpie, I forget if it was three or what, but you know, he still got a bunch of Magpies for free, and I had to pay for every Market. But Market always hits - it gives +$1 no matter what's on your deck.

Magpie does fit, with Ironmonger and Tournament, into the family of cards that help you go for $5 on turn 3 without opening with Silver. That was a thing Stef didn't like about it; he wanted to have that Silver (that he didn't want) pushed at him. I think it's fine if some games there's one of those cards though.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Magpie
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2016, 07:56:29 am »
+1

Magpie seems really good for putting +buy/+$1 tokens on- lets you get the extra benefit a lot of times a turn.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Magpie
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2016, 11:21:10 am »
+1

Magpie is not as good as I thought it was initially after using it for some time.

I don't think it's important to buy more than 1 Magpie in a given game. Magpie is just an accelerator, almost a Wishing Well variant in execution. If you have no plan, Magpie isn't going to be doing anything for you. As the game goes on, Magpie gets worse and worse, and you'll be hitting Action and Victory cards more often than not. Magpie is a great opening, but do not mistake Magpie for a strategy in itself, as I initially did.

Unless of course the only viable option is Magpie BM.
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