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[Asklepios]

Hey there! Just registered to the forums, though been on isotropic for some time, and following this site.

Just played this game, which was one of the most interesting ones I've yet to experience. Here's the link to the game report:

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/18/game-20120118-104258-98834923.html

But this is where the strategy was made:

The 12 chosen cards are Baron, Bishop, Black Market, Bureaucrat, Embargo, Great Hall, Herbalist, Pirate Ship, Scout, Torturer, Trade Route, and Workshop.
Eli_k vetoes Baron.
Asklepios vetoes Torturer.

I can't tell you why Eli vetoed Baron. Maybe he felt it was too swingy. I vetoed Torturer as I felt that it could ruin a game if one player got the 5/2, making it too one sided.

Immediately on starting, I was extremely glad to be second player, as I'd have the opportunity to see which direction my opposition was going. This set included Embargo, which is one of my favourite cards of all.

Eli opened scout. This made me think he was going to go for great halls, trade route and black market to fish out the crossroads and other VP-card synergising stuff. I figured that if trade route was going to be his main income source, I could slow the deck down with pirate ship, use embargo to lock out victory cards, and then just play pirate ship + big money. If he were to switch to pirate ship later, then odds on that would just thin my deck of copper, or slow him more than he was slowing me. Normally I avoid pirate ship in games against anyone with any sort of decent level, as its just not that strong a card. In this game though, I thought it was justified against a scout opening.

As it was, I felt it worked out really well. It got scary at times, as I was relying on a pair of platinums and being hit by pirate ship frequently. I also think Eli got obsessed with building a 2 colony a turn engine, and just got outpaced.

However there were quite a few comments suggesting to me that Eli felt I was getting lucky, such as telling me it was bad tactics to attack with pirate ship when I did, etc. etc.

I'm open to feedback, positive or critical, as to how I might have played this game better, and how I can learn from it.

[dondon151]

Without looking too hard at the log, I can say that opening Scout, even with Great Hall on the board, is a bad move.

Without any strong engine potential in this kingdom, Bishop kind of jumps out to me. I suppose you could also fish in the Black Market for a cursing attack.

[ackack]

However there were quite a few comments suggesting to me that Eli felt I was getting lucky, such as telling me it was bad tactics to attack with pirate ship when I did, etc. etc.

By contrast, opening with Scout = Expert Move.

Looking at the length of the game I'm guessing it was kind of a mess all around. It's sort of a middling Pirate Ship board - there's not a lot of +$ actions, but nor is there +action or +draw to multi-Ship unless you dip into the Black Market. My guess is that you could just open this one B'crat/Silver or Silver/Silver and Big Money it up for the most part. On the second shuffle I'd be gunning for Gold and Trade Route - you'll have some time to benefit from the trashing, the +buy will be nice, and your opponent is basically telling you he's going to be putting VP cards in his deck so the Trade Route will probably be useful eventually anyway. EDIT: and while I wouldn't start with Bishop if he's trying to cobble together Black Market craziness, eventually you'll probably want one. Later in the game if he's Trade Routing a lot of cards there isn't necessarily going to be much he wants to trash.

[Geronimoo]

If opponent opens Pirate Ship, you could go for the Golden Deck with Bishop. The copper trashing from the Ship will speed up the process. So if opp opens Pirate Ship/X, take Bishop/Embargo (for the Ships!?). Certainly not Bishop/Silver, but maybe Bishop/Great Hall or Bishop/Trade Route could also be good.

[WanderingWinder]

If opponent opens Pirate Ship, you could go for the Golden Deck with Bishop. The copper trashing from the Ship will speed up the process. So if opp opens Pirate Ship/X, take Bishop/Embargo (for the Ships!?). Certainly not Bishop/Silver, but maybe Bishop/Great Hall or Bishop/Trade Route could also be good.

To get the golden deck going, you need to get some silvers at some point. I don't see a real reason to not get it immediately - well, maybe trade route. Maybe.
Also, having great halls is bad for the golden deck in this case - makes it vulnerable to a ship; so you have to get rid of it anyway at some point. Maybe it's still fine, but you've got to keep these things in mind.

[Geronimoo]

The first goal of the Golden deck should be to shrink the deck as fast as possible. Opening Silver seems very counterproductive to that task.

[jonts26]

It's true. You gladly open Bishop/Chapel, taking as much trashing early and worrying about income later.

[WanderingWinder]

It's true. You gladly open Bishop/Chapel, taking as much trashing early and worrying about income later.

Chapel's not on the board. So... I think you might need to be worried a bit about income. And I'm not sure how viable trying to get to the golden deck here anyway, with such little trashing...

[DG]

I've a feeling that a pirate ship could be walking into disaster if your opponent can harness the black market correctly. However the green card route is pretty complicated and the villages from the black market are needed to get things going. Once the villages arrive there are lots of crazy looking decks available.

The simulator can also make baron, great halls, scout work against pirates. The deck doesn't need any silver, just gold and platinum. This thread could actually be an answer to the recent question about when to use great hall /scout.

[Asklepios]

If opponent opens Pirate Ship, you could go for the Golden Deck with Bishop. The copper trashing from the Ship will speed up the process. So if opp opens Pirate Ship/X, take Bishop/Embargo (for the Ships!?). Certainly not Bishop/Silver, but maybe Bishop/Great Hall or Bishop/Trade Route could also be good.

Yeah, if he'd opened Pirate Ship, then Bishop would have been my first choice definitely.

But he opened Scout, so I felt that going Bishop would just be letting him get his engine together quicker. I did in fact take a bishop later in the game, at the stage when I thought his engine was ready to go.

So he went Scout, I went Pirate Ship. He then went Black Market and I went Embargo. In retrospect I think I could have used that first embargo on great halls rather than trade routes though. Also, when I went for embargo I'd had a brain fart and forgotten that Workshop could circumvent the embargo.

I definitely agree with the posters who think that Scout was a weak opening... especially Scout / Black Market. If anything, even Scout / Workshop woulda been faster.

I'd not have chosen it myself. If I'd gone first, I think I'd have just played Bishop / Silver.

However, in response to said opening, what would you have done?