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Author Topic: Can you make a Bureaucrat pin work?  (Read 2223 times)

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ThetaSigma12

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Can you make a Bureaucrat pin work?
« on: February 24, 2016, 08:01:06 pm »
+1

I can think of one card that could make it work, but I wonder if there are any others. Thoughts? Just to refresh:http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Pin
Watchtower to trash rash the silvers as you gain them.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Can you make a Bureaucrat pin work?
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2016, 08:05:26 pm »
+4

I've seen someone Prince five of them.

Also, welcome to the forums!
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Can you make a Bureaucrat pin work?
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2016, 08:57:21 pm »
0

Feodum kingdom, maybe?
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ben_king

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Re: Can you make a Bureaucrat pin work?
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2016, 09:06:03 pm »
+2

Stef uses a Bureaucrat pin here:  http://www.twitch.tv/stef_42/v/44303501
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Limetime

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Re: Can you make a Bureaucrat pin work?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2016, 09:36:21 pm »
0

A good way to set up the pin is to use masq to send him vp before you play your bureaucrats.
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faust

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Re: Can you make a Bureaucrat pin work?
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2016, 09:51:09 am »
0

I have built a Jack/Ambassador engine that passed the Silver I gained from Jack to my opponent to keep the engine running. A similar thing is definitely possible with Bureaucrat. Plus you can use the Ambassador to flood your opponent with Estates. So that seems like a good way of setting this up.
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liopoil

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Re: Can you make a Bureaucrat pin work?
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2016, 11:38:41 am »
0

I played a game on stream where princing two bureaucrats gave me enough time to come back 6 provinces down with Feoda. I felt like I mostly bungled the whole thing though, which makes it more surprising that it worked.
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jomini

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Re: Can you make a Bureaucrat pin work?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2016, 04:03:02 pm »
+3

It is pretty easy for a B-crat pin to work, but most of the time it takes several cards.

For a straight B-crat pin you need to play 5 B-crats and have the other guy be unable to do anything about it. Doing that means that you need to be able to absorb or trash 5 Silvers.

Shrugging off mass silver gain can actually be surprisingly easy:
5 Princes of B-crats will work easily, but normally the game is long over by the time you get there. One fast setup is Heavy trasher (e.g. Chapel, Steward)/B-crat/Quarry/$2/+buy (Festival, Woodcutters, Bridge, etc.); you can surprisingly quickly get to the point where every other turn you will Prince a B-crat. With no draw you can then efficiently take all the remaining VP in the game.

Likewise Kc/Scheme or Kc/Scavenger will also let you shrug off silvers. Kc x3 -> Sch x2 -> B-crat x2 will pin an opponent & adding in a third Sch will let you buy a province. This is, however, very slow for Kc games of this type and Kc/Sch or Kc/Scav handily defeats a lot of B-crat pins.

To a degree, you can draw through the silver with cards like Hparty or Golem; normally this breaks the pin quick when you draw 5 silver, but use of Scheme or top decking (e.g. Mandarin) can work here.

A few big draw strats (like Rogue/Hermit or Chouse/Cellar) can also power through the silvers, but almost always when you can do that, you can just do those strats for something faster than B-crat pin.


So trashing silver is another option. Masq is nice, you can hand over an estate, draw two cards and trash a silver. Mercenary is also nice - you draw 2, trash 2 so each B-crat play takes an extra 1/2 action on net.  Bonfire is handy as long as you have +buys & draw. Apprentice can get decent draw from the Silver. For mass trashing while using other draw, well Forge& Count are insanely good as long as you do not start to fall behind on silver trashing. B-crat pins are also one of the few places where it can be worth it to have a second Chapel.

As with any pin, there are a number of enablers that can make it much stronger:
Discarders make it so you have fewer B-crats to play; Ghost ship and Minion are particularly strong as they cannot just discard Green out of reach of your B-crat.
Outpost to double the efficiency of the deck at pinning if you can draw deck.
Mission, the better version of Outpost, but you must generate $4 per turn.


Rabble, Fortune teller, and Haunted woods are also particularly helpful for setting up B-crat pins.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 09:42:24 am by jomini »
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