Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[eHalcyon]

EDIT: And I hope no one does, cus then Dominion would be really boring.  Every game would be a coin flip, based on shuffle luck.

I don't really agree.  Checkers is solved but that didn't instantly turn it into a less interesting game (this is not a comment on how interesting the game was to start).  The solution is complicated enough that no human player will be able to do much about it.  Dominion would be the same.

[Eran of Arcadia]

No adage or rule is right every time.

Even especially this one.

[Donald X.]

You can't playtest just one card.

If everyone buys a card, someone who bought that card will win.

[AdrianHealey]

You can't playtest just one card.

If everyone buys a card, someone who bought that card will win.

This makes sense. Care to elaborarz on your play testing procedure?

[Donald X.]

This makes sense. Care to elaborarz on your play testing procedure?

Have you seen this thread? http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=5799.0

[Kirian]

When you win, it's because of superior play. When you lose, it's because of shuffle luck.

I know this is meant as tongue-in-cheek, but the way I've been playing lately, I feel like exactly the opposite is often true!

[Accatitippi]

Don't play a nine card kingdom.

That's one of the things I try to tell myself. Don't skip over or forget any of the ten kingdom cards, or even a potion or ruins, they might all be useful.

This is something I am working hard on. I have actually opened Ruined Market a couple of times. It's very easy to forget cards like Scout exist, but it is important to analyze the kingdom as a whole and think if there is any situation that a card might be useful on that kingdom.

For that matter, don't play a kingdom with less than 9 cards either. You're actually on your way to top level play if you can even play a 9-card kingdom consistently.

Oh, then I must be a natural talent, since when I started out I would easily buy several copies of every card in the supply, and some Coppers to boost. 

[Witherweaver]

No adage or rule is right every time.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

[Limetime]

All I'm saying is that there is no such thing as optimal play.  Period.  Feel free to make whatever deductions you want from that statement.

The reason this statement is a fact is that in order for something to be optimal, you have to be able to quantify that something, and then the optimal value of the something is the largest quantity it can be.  And we have no way of quantifying how "good" a Kingdom is played or can be played.  If we did, bots would have a 100% win rate (if we wanted them to), and someone here would probably win a Turning Award.

There exists a way to quantify how "good" a kingdom is played, it's just so complicated that we haven't figured it out. Which is why we also don't know the optimal play for sure in a lot of situations. However, that doesn't mean the optimal play doesn't exist.

True.  Theoretically, there are a finite number of states a given game can be in (ignoring coin tokens or Pirate Ship tokens) -- finite number of states of the piles, finite number of decisions that can be made at any one point, finite number of ways your deck can be shuffled, etc.  There are also a finite number of possible Kingdoms.  These numbers are all huge, but they have their limits.  So ya, if somebody ever figures it out, I'd like to know.  But we haven't yet.  And I wouldn't hold your breath for it.

EDIT: And I hope no one does, cus then Dominion would be really boring.  Every game would be a coin flip, based on shuffle luck.

In theory a bot(not made by goko/making fun) could do this. Then there would be a optimal play.

[Schneau]

I can't believe no one has yet given the oldest adage I can remember on this forum:

It depends on the kingdom.

[Kirian]

Never buy Treasure Map from the Black Market.

[Polk5440]

I'm an old fuddy-duddy, so here's the sources I remember.

It's not about being ahead when the game ends; it's about ending the game when you're ahead.

Tables in a comment from a long ago discussion thread.

I have a corollary to this: When you have a guaranteed win, take it. See, for example: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=9229.msg285677#msg285677

One of the most important things in Dominion is understanding as a player you have significant agency in ending the game. It's not some passive thing that just happens.

[DG]

Never buy Treasure Map from the Black Market.

Never post anything conclusive on the DS forum or some rogue will post an edge case.

[Watno]

Never buy Treasure Map from the Black Market.

Never post anything conclusive on the DS forum or some rogue will post an edge case.

Obvious exceptions are Fairgrounds and Goons, for example.

[dedicateddan]

Never post anything conclusive on the DS forum or some rogue will post an edge case.

Edge case: this post is amazing

[Marcory]

Never buy Treasure Map from the Black Market.

Never post anything conclusive on the DS forum or some rogue will post an edge case.

But then another Rogue will trash it, and a third will gain it from the trash.

*Edge case--the edge case costs less than $3 or more than $7 with no cost-reducers in play of course

[Elanchana]

Here are a few more that I try to live by:

Make your deck go round and round. ~attributed to Stef, actually said to me by Adam
(Way more prevalent in engines than anything else, of course, and with a few limits. This mostly refers to cycling and being able to play your key cards more often.)

Think in shuffles, not in turns. ~Titandrake, possibly learned from someone else
(Relevant when gaining/buying cards - if gained during the same shuffle, they will show up at similar times regardless of which turns you gain them on.)

Speed is key. ~jacksepticeye
(Yeah I know he didn't say this about Dominion but it still applies. Some strategies are faster than others, and you don't want to lose because of slow timing.)

Assume your opponent won't screw up. ~me
(It's one thing to hope that their deck will stall or they'll miss a forced win or something, but if you know what their deck is capable of, you don't want to hand them the win just by making it more likely for no reason.)

[AdrianHealey]

Never buy Treasure Map from the Black Market.

Edge case: Band of misfits

[Awaclus]

Never buy Treasure Map from the Black Market.

Edge case: Band of misfits

You can't play Band of Misfits as Treasure Map unless Treasure Map is in the supply.

[Marcory]

Never buy Treasure Map from the Black Market.

Edge case: Band of misfits

Why? Band of Misfits can only act as a card in the Supply.

EDIT: Ninja'd

[Axxle]

What if I'm out of curses to pass with masquerade?

[sudgy]

Assume your opponent won't screw up. ~me
(It's one thing to hope that their deck will stall or they'll miss a forced win or something, but if you know what their deck is capable of, you don't want to hand them the win just by making it more likely for no reason.)

I wholeheartedly agree with this one.  I think I have lost several games just because I underestimated my opponent.

"Oh, he opened Pirate Ship?  I don't have to even think about this game."

"Copper?  What?  Well, this will be easy."  (it was a Duke game, and I didn't realize it)

[Psyduck]

Here's another one, not from me, though:

Always buy what is best for your deck right now.

[Awaclus]

Here's another one, not from me, though:

Always buy what is best for your deck right now.

I don't think that's a very good rule though. When you're building an engine with no trashing, you have to buy cards that are not the best for your deck right now (i.e. engine components as opposed to Treasures), and a lot of the time it's still correct to go for the engine rather than big money even when there's no trashing.

So the fixed rule could be something like If, in the long run, buying a card which is best for your deck right now is better than buying a card which is best for your deck later, do it.

Or a simplified version: Always buy the card that increases your chances of winning the most.

[Witherweaver]

Or the really simplified version:

Always do the right thing.