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J Reggie

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J Reggie's expansion
« on: February 22, 2016, 10:02:59 am »
+3

The cards as they stand so far:

Quote
Alleyway
Action
Look at the top two cards of your deck.  Discard any number of them.  Put the rest in your hand.  +1 action per card discarded.

Quote
Chambermaid
Support
When you play this, trash a card from your hand. When you discard this from play, trash the host card.

Quote
Convoy
Support
Every time you play a copy of the host card (including that card), you first get +1 card.

Quote
Imposture
Action
Set this aside with a card from your hand. For the rest of the game, on your turns, cards from this pile are that card.

Quote
Inscription
Support
Add 1 to all numbers on the host card.

Quote
Luthier
Action
+3 cards
You may play an action card from you hand of which you do not have a copy in play as if it were a Luthier.

When you gain this, reveal your hand.  Put one of each differently-named action card you revealed on top of your deck in any order.

Quote
Manifest
Action
Reveal your hand. For each differently-named card you revealed, if it is an:
Action card, +1 action
Victory card, +1 card
Treasure card, +1 buy
Support card, +

Quote
Mold
Support
Gain a copy of the host card.


Quote
Night Market
Action - Attack - Duration
Each other player discards a Duration card from play and cancels its effects for future turns.
At the start of your next turn:
+1 card
+1 action
+1 buy
+

Quote
Township
Action
+2 actions
Draw or discard cards until you have 5 cards in your hand. + per card you discarded.

Quote
Viaduct
Action
+1 action
Choose one: Cards cost less this turn (but not less than ); gain a card costing up to ; trash a card from your hand costing .

Quote
Ward
Action - Reaction
+1 card
+1 action
Next time you play an action which would draw a card this turn, for each card you would draw, instead look at the top card of your deck and either trash it or discard it.

When one of your cards is trashed, you may discard this from your hand for +2 cards.






I didn't really want to create fan cards, because frankly, I think that Dominion is really Donald X's creation and I like it that way.  But I can never suppress my creative side (that's why I'm a composer), so it was bound to happen eventually.  So these are just some ideas for cards that I came up with.  They're supposed to be part of an expansion that deals with changing other cards, and I will add more cards as time goes on.   Because of its theme, this expansion has somewhat of a variety subtheme, which I'm okay with.  I haven't playtested any of these yet and don't know if I will; I just wanted to share them with you guys to get your input on them.  Please do tell me what's wrong with these cards, even if they never actually see the light of day. 

These first four are some of the simpler ones:

Quote
Alleyway
Action
Look at the top two cards of your deck.  Discard any number of them.  Put the rest in your hand.  +1 action per card discarded.

I actually really like this card for its simplicity.  It's a Moat, a cantrip, or a Necro, and it always cycles.  Is it well-priced at ?


Quote
Luthier
Action
+3 cards
You may play an action card from you hand of which you do not have a copy in play as if it were a Luthier.

When you gain this, reveal your hand.  Put one of each differently-named action card you revealed on top of your deck in any order.

This one might be OP.  I play a village, then play Luthier, then play Chapel for +3 cards, then play Sea Hag for +3 cards, and I still have an action left.  What do you guys think?


Quote
Night Market
Action - Attack - Duration
Each other player discards a Duration card from play and cancels its effects for future turns.
At the start of your next turn:
+1 card
+1 action
+1 buy
+

This is an idea I had a while ago, of attacking other players' Durations directly.  Of course it has to be a Duration itself.  The main thing I'm worried about is the potential snowball effect.


Quote
Viaduct
Action
+1 action
Choose one: Cards cost less this turn (but not less than ); gain a card costing up to ; trash a card from your hand costing .

I really don't know how balanced this one is; I feel like it would need a lot of playtesting to get to a good state.  I just like the idea of an optional cost-reducer that can do things with the reduced costs. 


So there they are.  I have a bunch more ideas for cards which aren't fully worked out yet, some of which are much wackier, so I'll probably end up posting those at some point.  Let me know what you think.  I'm open to criticism and I'm not Goon Garden. 
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 10:48:07 am by J Reggie »
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Haddock

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2016, 10:19:07 am »
+1

I like all of these cards, a lot.

My first guess would be that Luthier is overpowered at $5, as you thought.  Probably reasonable at $6 though - it feels like it's on a similar power level to Hunting Grounds - draws 6ish cards terminally at the cost of one usage of a crappy action you might have.   (EDIT: I understand that you can do this multiple times, I just think that you're probably going to be getting at most one usage of the extra effect per Luthier, on average.)
The below-line effect is going to be a drawback most of the time though, I guess, so maybe it's fine at $5.


My only problem with Viaduct is that tracking it might be pretty nightmarish.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 10:20:41 am by Haddock »
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Marcory

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2016, 01:16:02 pm »
0

I like where you're going with these cards; most of my quibbles are minor and can probably be fixed.

Night market is a cool idea, but it is strictly inferior to Market in games without Durations, because this isn't worth buying if you're only cancelling other people's Night Markets. It also seems like it would make Durations unbuyable in multiplayer.

I like Alleyway, but it seems almost strictly superior to Vagrant. Vagrant's not a world-beater or anything, but it's something to think about.

Luthier is way OP with Ruins and seems super-strong on a 5/2 opening with Shelters. Maybe you'd need to have it only use Actions costing $3 or more or something?

I agree with Haddock that the tracking on Viaduct would be very difficult. Maybe you could have it set itself aside (on a mat, or the Tavern) if you take the cost-reduction part, returning it to your deck during clean-up?  Also, a second Viaduct can gain more Viaducts. Is this a feature or a bug?
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J Reggie

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2016, 01:54:04 pm »
0

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

Night market is a cool idea, but it is strictly inferior to Market in games without Durations, because this isn't worth buying if you're only cancelling other people's Night Markets. It also seems like it would make Durations unbuyable in multiplayer.

Do you think I should add a small vanilla bonus when played?  Or maybe a stronger duration bonus?

I like Alleyway, but it seems almost strictly superior to Vagrant. Vagrant's not a world-beater or anything, but it's something to think about.

I get what you're saying.  It's not strictly better than Vagrant, but most of the time it does basically the same thing with more flexibility.  Do you think it's overpriced at ?

Luthier is way OP with Ruins and seems super-strong on a 5/2 opening with Shelters. Maybe you'd need to have it only use Actions costing $3 or more or something?

Woah good point, I didn't even think about this.  I'm considering making it +2 cards, and therefore similar to Cultist.  Don't know if that's too weak though. 

I agree with Haddock that the tracking on Viaduct would be very difficult. Maybe you could have it set itself aside (on a mat, or the Tavern) if you take the cost-reduction part, returning it to your deck during clean-up?  Also, a second Viaduct can gain more Viaducts. Is this a feature or a bug?

Probably I'll have some recommendation for how to track which ones were used for cost reduction (turning them horizontally or putting them in a different row or something).  Also, you need to play 2 of these for cost reduction before you can gain them, since it gains a card costing up to

I'm probably going to playtest some of these in solo games, and try to see if I can find some people to playtest them with me.  If anyone feels inclined to playtest any of these on their own, let me know how it goes!

Next update, I think I'm going to introduce a new type, one which stands alone most of the time. 

GendoIkari

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2016, 05:07:52 pm »
0

Alleyway might be too strong. I think a flat

"+1 Action. Look at the top 2 cards of your deck. Put one in your hand and discard the other" might possibly be an ok on its own.
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J Reggie

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2016, 05:34:20 pm »
0

Alleyway might be too strong. I think a flat

"+1 Action. Look at the top 2 cards of your deck. Put one in your hand and discard the other" might possibly be an ok on its own.

Yeah, I'm going to test Alleyway at $3 and see if that's balanced. I agree that it's strong for $2. If it's too weak at $3 I might add an on-gain bonus.

GendoIkari

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2016, 05:41:41 pm »
+1

So I don't think Viaduct's tracking is any worse or different than either Steward or Pawn or Trusty Steed. You have to remember which of them were chosen for the cost reduction, that's all. I dunno about balance, but it seems like a great idea.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2016, 05:42:11 pm »
0

I don't know. 2 for a necropolis/moat/shifter seems reasonable.
It's 'strictly' better than moat if there are no attacks; that's the only issue.
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GendoIkari

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2016, 05:43:46 pm »
0

I don't know. 2 for a necropolis/moat/shifter seems reasonable.
It's 'strictly' better than moat if there are no attacks; that's the only issue.

I think for a Necropolis/Moat/Cantrip seems reasonable. The pick 1 of the top 2 part is where it becomes stronger.
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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2016, 08:56:47 pm »
0

Alleyway seems fine to me at $2. It probably needs to be tested at that price point though. At $3, I think it's pretty weakish.
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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2016, 09:04:26 pm »
0

Alleyway looks super dope. I love the self synergy thing you've got going on. I have a lot of cards from a lot of places I want to playtest, but man, Alleyway might just jump that queue.
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tristan

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2016, 10:19:08 am »
0

Alleyway is a strong 2$ but a pretty weak 3$. If you have Adventures you can use "When you gain/buy this, take your -1$ token". to nerf the card at a cost of 2. It is kind of a delayed price increase that does not stack if you buy/gain multiple Alleyways in one turn.
I like Viaduct, I like that it is a Throne-able cost reducer and I am pretty sure that it is balanced at 5.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 10:21:41 am by tristan »
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J Reggie

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2016, 11:02:31 am »
0

I'm actually getting more excited about getting this expansion to a playable state, so I'm going to keep posting cards here, probably in sets of 4.  I have about 20 ideas for cards, which of course will continue to be tweaked and whittled down.  I've really appreciated the feedback for Alleyway, and I'm going to start testing it at different price points and with different bonuses or penalties.  Looking at these cards though, I think this thing could work someday.

The next set of 4 is a whole new card type which I came up with some time ago: Support cards.  These cards are played along with a host card, which can be any other card that you play.  That means you can play a Support card with an Action, a Treasure, or even another Support card.  They each alter or interact with the host card in different ways.  They will be attached to the host card until it goes back into your discard pile, so if you trash the host card or set it aside, the Support card gets trashed or set aside as well.  There are still some kinks in the mechanics to be worked out.  I'm thinking bright turquoise as a color for this type; there aren't many distinct colors left considering the differences due to printing.  Here are the four pure Support cards:

Quote
Chambermaid
Support
When you play this, trash a card from your hand. When you discard this from play, trash the host card.

You can trash two cards while still playing one of them.  I'm not sure how well this compares to other trashers, but Chapel is a hard one to beat.  Chambermaid makes up for the lesser trashing by allowing you to still build while trashing two cards.  You can't trash two estates though, unless you have Inheritance, and then why would you want to?

Quote
Convoy
Support
Every time you play a copy of the host card (including that card), you first get +1 card.

So it's kind of like a weird Lab/Pathfinding variant which alters a certain card for one turn.  Draw it with a cantrip early on and you're in luck, but it might end up later in your shuffle and then you don't get as much benefit.  Balanced at ?

Quote
Inscription
Support
Add 1 to all numbers on the host card.

I know Donald tried out something like this in Alchemy and it was confusing, but I like how it works with the Support mechanic.  With vanilla cards it's weaker than Throne Room, but it has some pretty crazy combos with the likes of Storeroom and Highway (cards cost less, but not less than )!

Quote
Mold
Support
Gain a copy of the host card.


You can gain any card that you can play, at the cost of a non-terminal stop card in your deck.  This one's pretty simple, what do you think?


So anyway, there's my big new thing for this set of cards, although I still have some pretty crazy ideas up my sleeve.  Now I'm really looking forward to playtesting these cards and making them playable.  Suggestions, corrections, comments, questions?

beri

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2016, 11:08:00 am »
0

Quote
Alleyway
Action
Look at the top two cards of your deck.  Discard any number of them.  Put the rest in your hand.  +1 action per card discarded.
Sounds finely priced at $2. A way to tone it down if necessary is the following:

Do this twice: look at the top card of your deck. Choose: discard it and +1 Action or put it in your hand.

Quote
Luthier
Action
+3 cards
You may play an action card from you hand of which you do not have a copy in play as if it were a Luthier.
When you gain this, reveal your hand.  Put one of each differently-named action card you revealed on top of your deck in any order.[/quote]I don’t think this should go down to +2 cards. $6 might be a sweeter price point.

Quote
Viaduct
Action
+1 action
Choose one: Cards cost less this turn (but not less than ); gain a card costing up to ; trash a card from your hand costing .
Sounds a little bit weak perhaps. Maybe I am not a fan because the options do not sound very exciting.

Cool ideas overall.
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beri

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2016, 11:20:03 am »
0

Quote
Chambermaid
Support
When you play this, trash a card from your hand. When you discard this from play, trash the host card.
I wouldn’t mind Chambermaid being less powerful than Chapel, since Chapel is so OP. It sounds fine as is.

Quote
Convoy
Support
Every time you play a copy of the host card (including that card), you first get +1 card.
Couldn’t tell how balanced this is without playtesting. Might be swingy.

Quote
Inscription
Support
Add 1 to all numbers on the host card.
I came up with something similar here.

Quote
Mold
Support
Gain a copy of the host card.
Not sure this needs to be a Support. "+1 Action. Reveal a non-Victory card from your hand. Gain a copy of that card." Note that Mint costs $5, so this would have to cost more.


Support is a cool concept, good luck with making other exciting cards with it.
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tristan

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2016, 11:40:31 am »
+1

Just wanna say that Support is one of the most interesting fan card mechanisms. Basically impossible to say anything theoretical about balance though so you just gotta playtest them.
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GendoIkari

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2016, 11:49:16 am »
+1

Just wanna say that Support is one of the most interesting fan card mechanisms. Basically impossible to say anything theoretical about balance though so you just gotta playtest them.

Yeah I haven't even read all the support cards yet, but wanted to say that I think it's a great mechanic. Kind of like Splice onto Arcane from MTG.

I would probably limit it a bit more though; like only playing with action cards, or only playing 1 per card, or both those things. Supports can be super strong if you want because they are dead if not drawn with a host card. But limiting them would allow you to not worry about them being overpowered when you can draw your deck.
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LastFootnote

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2016, 11:59:25 am »
0

Quote
Mold
Support
Gain a copy of the host card.
Not sure this needs to be a Support. "+1 Action. Reveal a non-Victory card from your hand. Gain a copy of that card." Note that Mint costs $5, so this would have to cost more.

No, Mint has an on-buy effect that's part of its cost. You could easily have a cheaper cards that duplicates any non-Victory card from your hand.

In general, Support is an interesting idea, though 1) I wonder how much better it is than just having an Action that plays another Action, and 2) Inscription is a recipe for sadness, and the Highway combo is a great example of how it effortlessly generates awful rules confusion.
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tristan

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2016, 12:01:29 pm »
0

Just wanna say that Support is one of the most interesting fan card mechanisms. Basically impossible to say anything theoretical about balance though so you just gotta playtest them.
I would probably limit it a bit more though; like only playing with action cards, or only playing 1 per card, or both those things. Supports can be super strong if you want because they are dead if not drawn with a host card. But limiting them would allow you to not worry about them being overpowered when you can draw your deck.
I don't think that the Action restriction is necessary. The only cards that interact well with treasures so far are Chambermaid as Copper trasher and Mold as Gold gainer (not sure about Convoy, i.e. whether you can play cards drawn during the Buy phase). Stackability is an issue though, especially with Convoy. Two Convoys and all those 2$ cantrips become Double-Labs.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 12:12:05 pm by tristan »
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J Reggie

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2016, 10:43:54 am »
0

Just a few comments:

For Support cards, I feel the fact that they are something other than just actions adds something new here.  You can play them during your buy phase with treasures, and it's very unlikely to draw them dead.  Especially for Chambermaid, I have a feeling opening with it and a Smithy variant could be quite strong.  It also means you have to consider which card you're playing the Support card with, because if it gets trashed, the Support card gets trashed as well.  With Convoy you could still play any treasures that you drew in your buy phase (think IGG, it's not drawing but it's similar), along with any other Support cards, so this could present a whole new strategy.  And I personally find the interaction between Inscription and Highway charming, although I haven't actually playtested it yet.  It could be just too confusing to be worth it, I guess I'll see. 

I'm also thinking to make Night Market a cantrip when you play it, to make it worth buying. 

Anyway, here's another set of cards.  These ones are even less polished and will probably need more work, but the ideas are there.  I'll update the OP to include all the ideas I've posted so far, as well as any changes to cards. 

Quote
Imposture
Action
Set this aside with a card from your hand. For the rest of the game, on your turns, cards from this pile are that card.

Here's a strange one.  What do you do with it?  You can get one early and set aside a key card so there are more of them for you.  You can set aside a card that you need more of but is gone now.  You can set aside a card from the Black Market or a Prize, wouldn't that be lucky?  Or you can set aside a Province, but then you realize it's not your turn when you're counting up VP at the end of the game and you're sad. 

Quote
Manifest
Action
Reveal your hand. For each differently-named card you revealed, if it is an:
Action card, +1 action
Victory card, +1 card
Treasure card, +1 buy
Support card, +

This is kind of what Crossroads started off as, and I get the problems with that, but we do have other cards that you have to keep track of how many actions they gave you.  This could be really weak or really strong. 

Quote
Township
Action
+2 actions
Draw or discard cards until you have 5 cards in your hand. + per card you discarded.

Another idea for a draw-to-X village, which seems to be a popular theme in fan cards.  This one always leaves you with 5 cards in hand, but gives you a bonus if you have to discard to get there. 

Quote
Ward
Action - Reaction
+1 card
+1 action
Next time you play an action which would draw a card this turn, for each card you would draw, instead look at the top card of your deck and either trash it or discard it.

When one of your cards is trashed, you may discard this from your hand for +2 cards.

Yep, I know about the thing with Library.  I really like this idea, and it's gone through a lot of changes from its original state but still needs a lot of work to be playable.  Any thoughts?


So these are some weirder cards that may or may not work, but they're cool ideas at least.  Feel free to go different places with them as you see fit. 
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 10:48:33 am by J Reggie »
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tristan

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2016, 06:25:05 pm »
0

Township is strictly superior to Production Village, another fan card that (rightly) costs 4$.
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GendoIkari

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2016, 06:31:48 pm »
0

Township is strictly superior to Production Village, another fan card that (rightly) costs 4$.

Well not completely, because it makes you discard down to 5 cards if you have more than that when you play it. So it might be ok at .

Also, I and some others argue that Production Village should cost ; it's a lot like Shanty Town in that it will sometimes not draw a card and be a Necropolis, and other times will draw more than 1 card.

For reference, Production Village was simply +2 actions, draw up to 5.
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tristan

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2016, 06:43:27 pm »
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Township is strictly superior to Production Village, another fan card that (rightly) costs 4$.

Well not completely, because it makes you discard down to 5 cards if you have more than that when you play it. So it might be ok at .

Also, I and some others argue that Production Village should cost ; it's a lot like Shanty Town in that it will sometimes not draw a card and be a Necropolis, and other times will draw more than 1 card.

For reference, Production Village was simply +2 actions, draw up to 5.
Guess I am slightly biased as one game I played with it featured Outpost. Seriously though, I think that it is better than Shanty Town. Sure, it is just a Necro if you combo it with terminal draw. But if you play them without anything else they are villages and if you combo it with other stuff Production Village does the job of what is usually done by two cards. Unlike Shanty Town it defends against handsize attacks and it is ond of the few cards that make something fairly crappy like the Action part of Secret Chamber shine.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 06:45:42 pm by tristan »
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GendoIkari

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2016, 07:17:59 pm »
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Agree that it's stronger than Shanty Town, but not strictly better, and Shanty town is pretty weak.

I wonder if you'd had Tactician instead of Outpost if you'd feel the opposite...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 07:21:16 pm by GendoIkari »
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tristan

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Re: J Reggie's expansion
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2016, 01:17:38 am »
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Agree that it's stronger than Shanty Town, but not strictly better, and Shanty town is pretty weak.

I wonder if you'd had Tactician instead of Outpost if you'd feel the opposite...
Second turn with Outpost, 3 cards in hand, play Production Village for +2 Actions, +3 cards.
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