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[vulturesrow]

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/17/game-20120117-210519-457a0beb.html

I won but it took 24 turns and I feel like I couldve played more efficiently. I go with the IGG over the Witch but then sort of abandoned it since I felt I was just fueling the bishops. Still with a relative dearth of +ACtion on the board, maybe that wasnt such a big deal. I try to transition to Nobles to use with smithy..I dunno, just felt really clunky. The game still isnt quite clicking for me. Any thoughts would be most appreciated.

[TheMathProf]

I think your plan of IGG over Witch can be a fine one, and I personally would have stuck with it there once you've committed.

You seemed concerned that you were fueling his Bishops.  But I noticed you had some Bishops of your own.  When you're combining IGG+Bishop, you're giving him the Curses with the IGGs not so much because you think that he's going to keep them but to slow down his trashing of the Estates and Coppers from his hand.  You're basically getting double the effective trashing that he's getting, because he's having to spend turns trashing Curses.  And if it gets down to it late, IGGs make fairly decent Bishop fodder for two victory points (in addition to the one you already get for playing Bishop).

I did like his Haggler buy, personally.  If you're looking at a turn where you don't have your Bishop, you can play your Haggler and do the purchase of something useful/Ill-Gotten Gains.  If you were doing this, I'd probably have increased treasure.

I do agree that your Nobles/Smithy engine was clunky.  You're only net one card from this, so you have to be thinking of this more as a VP investment than an engine investment.  Given that you've got the Bishops for VP gaining, I'd be looking a different direction personally, and would probably go Gold over Nobles.

[DStu]

I neither really like taking IGG over the Witch, nor with Bishops:

Witch: When you want to rush the IGG, you have to take IGG with empty Cursepile to 3pile.  I think IGG to support the Witch is fine to win the Curse-split, but I would start with a Witch. When you can play it twice, which should not be so hard, it handed out more Curses than the IGG you bought there.

Bishop: With the IGG, you hand out Curses, and of course that slows trashing of Estates/Coppers of your opponent. But trashing of Coppers might not be so important in a Province-game, so if you get rid of the Curses you are happy. But you yourself spent some precious $5s to get this Curses in your opponent's deck, and only keep a lesses Silver for it. So it is worth to spend $5 (or even $6s) on bad Silvers to slow the free trashing of the Bishop? Might depend on the $5s (and $4s), but often it is not. To feed the Bishop you also throw away something, the step from $4 to $5 is a large one, but you only get the value of a $4 when Bishopping IGGs.


The board itself is kind of difficult I think, afte the opening Witch supported by IGG I'm not sure. Usually I would say just CR->BM, but with Bishop and Nobles there are significantly more VPs on the board than usual, the Curses already slowed the game, so racing to the Provinces might be a trap. But which way to go? Bishop might be to much of a present if you win the Curses, but that's the only trashing (yes, I've seen Transmute...). But to go for an actionchain without tidying up a litte bit, with Nobles as Village is also not something I feel comfortable with. Opponents Bishop of course might help here...  So I think I'm still focussed on CR, but will get disturbed by Haggler and Nobles and lose. Haggler ->Nobles/CR or Gold/CR sounds really good, if it works...

[DG]

Usually smithy/silver will beat bishop/silver. I suspect that council room, library, witch, nobles in the set just increase the chances of a drawing deck accelerating away from the bishop. On it's own, haggler might have the same effect too. So how much do the IGGs change things? Probably not enough. If your opponent takes a witch then you're trashing curses before you get to trash the iggs for points, the last iggs won't give curses so an early three pile win is spoilt, and you'll probably need to take coppers to buy gold later meaning that your deck will never be as good as your opponent's.