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Author Topic: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms  (Read 3876 times)

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werothegreat

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Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« on: February 18, 2016, 12:22:10 pm »
+10


Since we're doing Events now, we might as well go back to the start of the alphabet with them before we move on.  Alms!  Free stuff!  At least, once per turn, and as long as you don't have any money.

Starting questions:
-Good opener, or best opener?
-How often will you decide to not play Treasures in order to get this?
-What other Events does it like?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 01:11:50 pm by werothegreat »
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards:
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2016, 12:34:16 pm »
+2

I think its extremely good with trashing, since you can trash all the cards in your hand and still add something useful to your deck.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards:
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2016, 12:38:04 pm »
+3

I tend to forget that Alms exist after the first two hands, which is something I need to correct (someday when Adventures is playable online). I agree with Watno that it's probably great with strong trashing. I wonder how often it's practical to actually trash all your Treasures and use it late-game. I suppose Poor House is sometimes worthwhile, so surely Alms is too.
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werothegreat

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2016, 01:20:02 pm »
0

Forgot to put the card name in the title.  Whoops!  Fixed.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2016, 01:28:26 pm »
+1

This is really good with Gardens and Silk Roads, right?

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2016, 01:58:19 pm »
+1

This is really good with Gardens and Silk Roads, right?

Don't think so. Is missing 4 really an issue with these kind of decks? And it's not an extra gain. Maybe with it's a nice addition to Garden decks with +buy but that's about it.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2016, 02:05:35 pm »
0

I think it's useful in a mirror Garden rush with a gainer since you can double-Garden every time you draw the gainer. Only catch: So does your opponent.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2016, 02:09:47 pm »
+1

I think it works well with Coin token cards, particularly Candlestick Maker and Merchant Guild, since Coin tokens don't count as Treasures.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2016, 02:23:48 pm »
0

I think it works well with Coin token cards, particularly Candlestick Maker and Merchant Guild, since Coin tokens don't count as Treasures.

I don't see this being the case particularly. I could see it working well with Plaza, since you're discarding Treasures and still getting something from them. Same with all Vault variants, I guess.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2016, 03:21:19 pm »
+2

As well as working really well with tactician
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2016, 03:52:48 pm »
0

Here is some previous discussion of Alms in the 2015 Card Rating thread.

My thoughts reposted:
Here is why I think [Alms is] one of the cards with the highest impact:
  • Alms dramatically changes opening buy/gains.
  • Alms makes heavy trashing less costly.
  • Alms makes early gainers more valuable.
  • Alms makes early coin less valuable.
  • Alms makes virtual money decks with +buy more viable.
  • Alms reduces the effectiveness of early attacks like Militia and Cutpurse by providing a floor on the worst possible hand.
  • Alms smooths out bad hands early due to shuffle luck.
  • If you use Alms, you don't play any of your treasures, so you deny information to your opponent(s).

Alms usually has a pretty big impact on the optimal deck-building strategy.  It might be my favorite event.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2016, 04:07:51 pm »
+1

While I think that you overrate Alms in general, I think the point about Cutpurse/Militia is wrong. The best you can do with it is denying a $5, where Alms doesnt help at all.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2016, 04:18:39 pm »
0

Yeah, I think the biggest thing about alms is making 4/4 openings possible. Then the obvious combos that have been mentioned. I have not had the opportunity to play any adventures and haven't looked at them that much, but first impressions are in agreement with its rank. Middle of the road, very useful in some situations, but probably rarely touched in others.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2016, 04:21:37 pm »
+1

A lot of things about Alms have been mentioned, but here are a few more people haven't mentioned:
Playing Storeroom gives you optional sifting and two $4 cards.
It hard counters Swamp Hag, especially in a non-engine deck.
If you have a hand of like 2 Platinum or something amazing with no +buy, Alms can sort of counter Haunted Woods. Free topdecking!
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2016, 04:22:07 pm »
0

But yeah, totally opening alms/alms whenever I get a 3/4 (because I can), and getting a 5/2 with alms when your opponent gets a 3/4 (depending on the board) can be a "might as well resign now" type of thing. (Obviously you never actually resign in that situation though)
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2016, 04:23:24 pm »
+1

But yeah, totally opening alms/alms whenever I get a 3/4 (because I can), and getting a 5/2 with alms when your opponent gets a 3/4 (depending on the board) can be a "might as well resign now" type of thing. (Obviously you never actually resign in that situation though)
Getting a 5/2 means you really open 5/4, you silly goose!
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drsteelhammer

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2016, 04:25:00 pm »
+2

A lot of things about Alms have been mentioned, but here are a few more people haven't mentioned:
Playing Storeroom gives you optional sifting and two $4 cards.
It hard counters Swamp Hag, especially in a non-engine deck.
If you have a hand of like 2 Platinum or something amazing with no +buy, Alms can sort of counter Haunted Woods. Free topdecking!


With no buy, you can only buy alms and not topedeck anything since you haven't bought a card.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2016, 04:25:49 pm »
+1

so remember when i said distant lands was my favorite adventures card? well, i forgot alms, which is definitely my favorite card ever that isn't horn of plenty. do you know who else forgets alms? everybody. the first guy that did adventures card discussion forgot alms and started with amulet and now there's precedent for not doing events here.

but more importantly, everyone forgets it when it's in the kingdom.

like seriously. how many times have you just forgotten alms was in the kingdom at the opening and you could've gotten two ironworks but instead decided on warehouse/silver like a chump.

anyway, this card is busted. it makes chapel-bm suck less because you can trash 4 & get a silver anyway. openings are ridiculous (i would link the one post about mint/remake except mobile) and less than 4 dollars becomes 4 dollars, which is generally good for engines. no-economy openings like amb/amb and, like, trade route or something get a lot better.

it's kinda hard to play to the merits of alms, but not hard as in unlikely to do competitively but hard as in it's clearly strong and just hard to execute, which is cool

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2016, 04:51:09 pm »
+3

A lot of things about Alms have been mentioned, but here are a few more people haven't mentioned:
Playing Storeroom gives you optional sifting and two $4 cards.
It hard counters Swamp Hag, especially in a non-engine deck.
If you have a hand of like 2 Platinum or something amazing with no +buy, Alms can sort of counter Haunted Woods. Free topdecking!

It also synergizes with Scout because if you have Scouts in your deck, you will probably have a hard time hitting $4 otherwise.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2016, 04:57:49 pm »
+3

Alms+Ferry = fun times? Why yes, I *will* take that free Grand Market, thank you.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2016, 06:14:02 pm »
0

I thought we weren't doing Events because they're not Adventures Cards.

Anyways, this seems crazy good with +buy / virtual money cards. Forager is the best because it'll trash, give you money, and a +buy, so you can potentially pick up a number of cards*. As if Forager needed buffing.

(Yes, I know you can only buy Alms once per turn, so this is not as good as Peddler in the midgame)
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2016, 08:33:01 pm »
+2

Alms was a late one. It worked out, phew. It's more like a rules change than most of the Events that are like rules changes. We tried it without "once per turn" but it was cwazy.

As LF notes it's hard to remember it later in the game, unless you've been using it a lot for some reason. As everyone notes it's nice with trashers. It can also be a boost in heavy attack games. This is all obvious but that's what I have to say about Alms.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2016, 09:03:36 pm »
+1

Another thing no one mentioned: It's also great with spoils since you can play them and still buy alms.
I've had adventures IRL for awhile now, but there's a few cards I took some time before introducing to my play group because of the way it changes games. Alms is one of them (others include ferry, page, and swamp hag).

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2016, 09:20:04 pm »
0

It hard counters Swamp Hag, especially in a non-engine deck.

Not if you want to buy a card that costs more than $4.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2016, 09:21:08 pm »
+5

It hard counters Swamp Hag, especially in a non-engine deck.

Not if you want to buy a card that costs more than $4.
The only card I want to add to my deck happens to cost exactly $4.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2017, 07:48:04 am »
0

Necro time!

Has your perception changed of how good Alms is? I felt like I was the only one saying this is an average event at best most of the time. The thing is, there haven't been many games that made me change my mind about it. It gains you a slightly better card early or a free $4 if you're chapeling, but that's all it does. Still doesn't sound strong.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2017, 09:10:14 am »
+2

My perception of Alms hasn't changed much; I still think it's very strong!  In some games, it has only a minor role, but in many other games it can completely transform the way you build.  One synergy I missed when I first evaluated this card is cost reduction: Bridge in particular.  And Empires gave it one of its best synergies in Villa!

BTW, gaining a free $3-4 card while Chapeling is huge!  If only one player takes advantage of Alms in a game with Chapel, that player has a huge advantage.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2017, 09:18:29 am »
0

There's a bunch of games where Alms does nothing, but it really helps on heavy thinning boards or when you want to open specific things. It's not an every game standout, but it's pretty cool.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2017, 09:22:16 am »
+3

Alms is super strong with any trashing that trashes from your hand, not just Chapel (except for stuff like Moneylender and Masquerade). You rarely hit $4 on those turns. It's also strong with $4 splitters because it really sets you back when you don't hit $4 in those games, which might happen a couple of times in the early game. It's also extremely strong with a 5/2 opening. At its worst, it's still going to be moderately useful.

Luckily enough, it's almost trivial to realize when you should be buying Alms and when you shouldn't, so being wrong about its overall strength doesn't actually hurt at all.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2017, 10:00:23 am »
0

Alms is super strong with any trashing that trashes from your hand, not just Chapel (except for stuff like Moneylender and Masquerade). You rarely hit $4 on those turns. It's also strong with $4 splitters because it really sets you back when you don't hit $4 in those games, which might happen a couple of times in the early game. It's also extremely strong with a 5/2 opening. At its worst, it's still going to be moderately useful.

Luckily enough, it's almost trivial to realize when you should be buying Alms and when you shouldn't, so being wrong about its overall strength doesn't actually hurt at all.
This. I also kinda like that you can bluff well with the card. Not that it often influences your opponent but e.g. on 2/5 with you going first and junkers on the board the opponent might make a different decision during turn 1 if he knew that you could buy that $5 junker on turn 2.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2017, 10:12:12 am »
0

Yeah, obviously you should buy Alms instead of playing Treasures whenever you just intend to buy something you could gain with Alms anyway. Which happens every game (well, it's technically possible to always hit $5 but that requires extremely rare shuffle luck in an extremely rare kingdom so basically it doesn't happen). So I think it's actually pretty safe to say that you buy Alms more often than any other card-shaped thing (games where you bought it/games you played with it).
« Last Edit: September 11, 2017, 10:13:46 am by Awaclus »
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Alms
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2017, 11:44:43 am »
+2

well, it's technically possible to always hit $5 but that requires extremely rare shuffle luck in an extremely rare kingdom

or a single-minded devotion to Mandarin, I guess
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