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Author Topic: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry  (Read 9193 times)

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Donald X.

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Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« on: February 16, 2016, 06:26:53 pm »
+42

I guess everyone gets a turn starting these threads. I missed that it was my turn. But I waited n days and when no-one else left the island it was obvious.


Ferry: Event, $3
Move your -$2 cost token to an Action Supply pile (cards from that pile cost $2 less on your turns, but not less than $0).

You just erase the cost in the corner, and write in a cheaper one, and no-one can stop you.

- With a 3/4 or 4/3, do you just always open this? But I mean, always?
- Is it all that with Workshops?
- Is it worth it sometimes to move the counter later?
- Does it do other cute tricks? Uh, Band of Misfits? I will just tell you, the combo I really like is Artificer.
- Is this bad for the game? I mean, it isn't, but you know, I can still ask that.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2016, 06:43:38 pm »
0

The one thing I know about this card is that it gives me a huge headache. The question is when do you stop buying the one cards and go for something else? What about + Buys.

I feel whenever this is on the board a whole plethora of strategic possibilities opens up.

Edit: sorry for typos. Phone post.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 07:08:55 pm by Beyond Awesome »
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schadd

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2016, 06:54:14 pm »
+4

ferry is a really good card but so are most $3s. nevertheless this deserves a spot in the (checks my submission for the qvist ranking) top 12? yikes. probably higher than that.

@ the OP, by sentence
-everyone does get a turn except most people
-no you didn't
-is that a reference to every logic puzzle?
-oh, "but not less than 0," what would we do without you? probably just assume that it doesn't go below 0 lmao
-i mean, if you're playing with my cards and a pencil gets anywhere close to one of them the automated security system will usually kick in
-yes
-yes
-yeah man, if workshops cost $1 then you can use them to gain worker's villages which in turn can get you more workshops
-is $3 worth close to $10? (yes)
-i dunno, hard to beat the one workshop one, maybe also make border village cheaper in case, ya know, you need to buy a border village but it's expensive
-ooh i like band of misfits but then what if the card you want goes empty OOOOH
-wow spoilers. but oh yeah artificer/highway is busted
-no. maybe you have it confused with rebuild. and this card even makes rebuild games more interesting because then when you ferry it then maybe you should get more than 3
-you can ask whatever you want babe
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 03:59:27 pm by schadd »
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Mavy2k

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2016, 06:56:00 pm »
0

Ferry is a powerful card.
Ideally you want a +buy early on, something like Salvager.
Otherwise you just want this on a 5+ card that you want as much as possible.

Cantrips are obviously a good target for this, a 3$ Market seems like a pretty sweet deal, for example.

PS: Thx Donald for posting a fun thread
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faust

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2016, 07:11:07 pm »
0

I think it's pretty much a no-brainer with good nonterminals. Even some weakish card like Treasury gets quite exciting once you start picking it up for $3. It may be worth it to put the token on Forge early if it's the only treasuretrasher. (imagine the 2-5 on a Baker board). Obvious event combo is Lost Arts. And I imagine Action-Victory can be a good reason to move the token later, picking up those Distant Lands for $3.

It gets more interesting with mainly terminals and no engine. On your standard Mountebank-BM board, I still definitely open with this on 3/4 to get a Mounty in the first shuffle. Same holds for many $5 Junkers probably (ohmygod Cultist. It will be more horrible than ever). But other than that, are there terminals that are really worth ferrying?

EDIT: Man I obivously was already a bit tired when writing this. Those damn words are just too similar.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 07:35:09 pm by faust »
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2016, 07:32:55 pm »
+1

You just erase the cost in the corner, and write in a cheaper one, and no-one can stop you.

But you have to still leave the original cost for everyone else.  Those schmucks.

EDIT: Also, been mentioned before, but 3/4 Ferry/Hireling is beastly.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2016, 07:43:24 pm »
+1

I've played with this once (the one time IRL I played Adventures). I didn't understand it at the time, but once I realized what it did, I thought it was WAY OP.  Maybe I'm wrong, but guaranteeing a Wharf or Minion or Monty or whatever on T2 seems just silly to me.

Some other random thoughts on its cost:
- At least it cost $3, so that either player can (usually) buy it on T1 (costing $4 would I feel give a huge advantage to a player opening 4/3 vs. 3/4).
- I feel a player opening 5/2 would usually be at a huge disadvantage over a 3/4 or 4/3 opening, and opening 2/5 would be even more disadvantageous
- Maybe it should cost $6 or something.

--> What am I misunderstanding here?

EDIT:
And if both players always buy it on T1, why not get rid of it and just have something like:
"Setup: Each player chooses an Action supply pile. Cards from that pile always cost 2 less for that player but not less than 0."

EDIT2:
are there terminals that are really worth ferrying?
Knights?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 08:16:12 pm by Dingan »
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2016, 08:06:41 pm »
0

I think it's pretty much a no-brainer with good nonterminals. Even some weakish card like Treasury gets quite exciting once you start picking it up for $3. It may be worth it to put the token on Forge early if it's the only treasuretrasher. (imagine the 2-5 on a Baker board). Obvious event combo is Lost Arts. And I imagine Action-Victory can be a good reason to move the token later, picking up those Distant Lands for $3.

It gets more interesting with mainly terminals and no engine. On your standard Mountebank-BM board, I still definitely open with this on 3/4 to get a Mounty in the first shuffle. Same holds for many $5 Junkers probably (ohmygod Cultist. It will be more horrible than ever). But other than that, are there terminals that are really worth ferrying?

EDIT: Man I obivously was already a bit tired when writing this. Those damn words are just too similar.

Gross. $3 Cultists. Yikes!
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Donald X.

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2016, 08:28:52 pm »
+7

Some other random thoughts on its cost:
- At least it cost $3, so that either player can (usually) buy it on T1 (costing $4 would I feel give a huge advantage to a player opening 4/3 vs. 3/4).
- I feel a player opening 5/2 would usually be at a huge disadvantage over a 3/4 or 4/3 opening, and opening 2/5 would be even more disadvantageous
- Maybe it should cost $6 or something.

--> What am I misunderstanding here?
It cost $4 at one point. Stef argued that $3 would be fairer.

It is not necessarily so bad to get 5/2. You get to buy the $5. They get Ferry/$5, you get $5/$2. If it's a card you want multiples of, you can get Ferry later, though they are ahead there. If it isn't, yeeha. If there are multiple good $5's, you can open with a good one-of, then Ferry turn 3. You know.

The key thing is, what does it do to fun. A subset of that is, how does it affect skill. It leaves the game plenty fun and skillful. So, there it is. Like some other Events, it's like a rules change. You are very likely to get it, but that's okay, because, plenty fun and skillful. Like some other Events that are like rules changes, it heavily depends on the other cards.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2016, 12:36:31 am »
0

- Does it do other cute tricks? Uh, Band of Misfits? I will just tell you, the combo I really like is Artificer.

I like that combo too, though I remember being significantly less fond of it when you could get multiple $2 cost tokens. Get Artificer's cost down to $1 and you could pretty quickly drain that pile.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2016, 02:15:45 am »
+1

I've played with this once (the one time IRL I played Adventures). I didn't understand it at the time, but once I realized what it did, I thought it was WAY OP.  Maybe I'm wrong, but guaranteeing a Wharf or Minion or Monty or whatever on T2 seems just silly to me.

My first game with Adventures actually featured Ferry and Wharf. I got to open 3/4. The thing with Ferry and powerhouses that give +buy like Wharf or Goons is that once those cards are gone or you don't want any more of them, you can easily use a +buy that could have only gotten you a Silver on some boards to shift your -2 cost token to another Action Supply pile.

A nice interaction I could think of is Ferry-Stonemason. You could of course put the -2 cost token on a specific Action Supply pile. You could also put it on Stonemason. Which would mean, for the original cost of a Card you could always get two copies of that (if you pick up a Stonemason). And you would never have to shift the -2 cost token, if there are several cards you'd like more copies of. As long as Stonemason is still in the supply, having the -2 cost token there is somewhat like putting a -2 cost token on all the cards. Not literally of course, because it's not exactly the same, but you know what I mean.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2016, 02:27:45 am »
0

A nice interaction I could think of is Ferry-Stonemason. You could of course put the -2 cost token on a specific Action Supply pile. You could also put it on Stonemason. Which would mean, for the original cost of a Card you could always get two copies of that (if you pick up a Stonemason). And you would never have to shift the -2 cost token, if there are several cards you'd like more copies of. As long as Stonemason is still in the supply, having the -2 cost token there is somewhat like putting a -2 cost token on all the cards. Not literally of course, because it's not exactly the same, but you know what I mean.

I'm sure this is actually really good most of the time, but all I can think about is a game where two of my opponents opened with Ferry on Stonemason and each got two Duplicates turn 2, then proceeded to empty the Duplicates really quickly with no plan in mind.  I was kind of sad because it looked like an interesting kingdom and I wanted a good challenge. 

Also I feel like Ferry combos to some extent with scaling trash-for-benefit, because you can buy things in multiples at a reduced cost and then move the token and trash them later (kind of like Peddler).

spiralstaircase

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2016, 02:36:21 am »
0

Ferry, Grand Market, Prince.  Good times.
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Davio

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2016, 04:53:43 am »
0

I guess you almost always open with this on 3/4 and 4/3, since you're guaranteed to get a $5 card on your second turn and play it in your first reshuffle. Usually this is a pretty big deal. So much so that we sometimes see Nomad Camp gambles to this effect.

$5 cards for $3 from T2 on is madness!

Being able to move the token later is just icing on the cake, I think it just speeds the game up incredibly and with any speed increase, it really favors the person getting lucky earlier in the game; it's really hard to come back after a rough opening with this and losing a vital split.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2016, 05:30:07 am »
+8

A sometimes brutal combo is with Travelling Fair. Once in a Gardens game I gained all Squires by turn 3 after opening 3/4.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2016, 04:17:45 pm »
0

Oh man I just got the "no one left the island" reference upon reading this again. So awesome.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2016, 05:30:22 pm »
+7

Also:

I start a "Let's Discuss" thread: +6 Respect

Donald X starts a "Let's Discuss" thread: +35 Respect

Not complaining or anything, just pointing it out.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2016, 05:36:03 pm »
0

Also:

I start a "Let's Discuss" thread: +6 Respect

Donald X starts a "Let's Discuss" thread: +35 Respect

Not complaining or anything, just pointing it out.

It's not exactly a new discovery that people get respect based on who they are in addition to/instead of how good their posts actually are.
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Donald X.

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2016, 05:39:42 pm »
+6

I start a "Let's Discuss" thread: +6 Respect

Donald X starts a "Let's Discuss" thread: +35 Respect

Not complaining or anything, just pointing it out.
So start 5 more of them? I think Gear is next.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2016, 05:44:30 pm »
+4

I start a "Let's Discuss" thread: +6 Respect

Donald X starts a "Let's Discuss" thread: +35 Respect

Not complaining or anything, just pointing it out.
So start 5 more of them? I think Gear is next.

But it's about maintaining a healthy post/respect ratio... D:
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2016, 05:59:59 pm »
+1

Also:

I start a "Let's Discuss" thread: +6 Respect

Donald X starts a "Let's Discuss" thread: +35 Respect

Not complaining or anything, just pointing it out.

I think it's still true.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2016, 06:03:07 pm »
0

Also:

I start a "Let's Discuss" thread: +6 Respect

Donald X starts a "Let's Discuss" thread: +35 Respect

Not complaining or anything, just pointing it out.

Link to the one you started (I am not going to go find it myself) and I'll go give it a sympathy up vote in addition to the sympathy up vote I gave this post...
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2016, 06:28:12 pm »
+3

Also:

I start a "Let's Discuss" thread: +6 Respect

Donald X starts a "Let's Discuss" thread: +35 Respect

Not complaining or anything, just pointing it out.

You could just post some memes instead
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2016, 06:37:07 pm »
+2

Also:

I start a "Let's Discuss" thread: +6 Respect

Donald X starts a "Let's Discuss" thread: +35 Respect

Not complaining or anything, just pointing it out.

You could just post some memes instead

You could just make a joke about how posting memes gets more respect than posts with content instead.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Ferry
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2016, 06:44:28 pm »
+1

Ferry is fantastic.

I can imagine a board where it doesn't make sense to open Ferry on 3/4 (no +buy, no 5+ cost cards worth having in bulk), but I've never played such a board (I've probably played with Ferry ~10 times).  There are a few cards that make Ferry especially bonkers: Stonemason, Goons, and Grand Market come to mind.  The interaction with Goons is a little unfortunate; a player who opens 3/4 (as opposed to 4/3) has a significant advantage.

I expect that Ferry + Workshop can be a trap sometimes.  Suppose there's a board where Margrave is the only source of draw (and there are other components to make an engine).  I would definitely prefer to open Ferry + Margrave over even Ferry + Ironworks.  The early Margrave can help you spike a double Margrave turn almost as much as Ironworks, it cycles you faster, and it attacks.  On the other hand, Ferry + Grand Market is greatly aided by a Workshop-style gainer.  Then there are a bunch of cases that are less clear.

Moving your Ferry later (after the first pile is empty) is often correct, I'd say; especially in the presence of +buy.  It only takes two purchases of the new card before you've made your money back (and more).

Ferry is super powerful, but it doesn't do anything by itself.  Like Chapel and King's Court, it empowers the other cards in the kingdom.  The only time I've been sad that Ferry is in the kingdom is when it further powered a game-warping card (e.g. Rebuild, Cultist).

Aside: I guess I'll have to create the thread for Alms later this week, lest everybody forget it and the three other skipped events.
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