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[jomini]

Here is a better effort:

Events:
Borrow
Alms
Quest
Traveling Fair (Tfair)
Pilgrimage

Cards:
1. Chancellor
2. Scavenger (Scav)
3. Messenger
4. Bm
5. Develop (Dev)
6. Kc
7. Band of misfits (Bom)
8. Scheme (Sch)
9. Bridge (Brg)
10. Urchin
11.

T1: Tfair, buy Curse x2 to top deck
T2: - : Borrow, buy Tfair using Baker coin, buy Quest (discard Curses for a Gold to top deck), Alms (gain Dev to deck top)
T3: Dev (trash Gold, gain Kc/Bom): Alms (gain Urchin)
T4: Kc -> Bom (Scav: Discard each time, top deck Urchin): Tfair, Pilgrimage (gain BomKc to top deck), Alms (gain Sch to top deck)
T5: Urchin -> Sch -> Kc -> Bom (Scav, top deck KcBom): Tfair, Alms (Brg), Brg: top deck Kc
T6: Kc -> Kc -> Bom (Brg) -> Brg -> Brg

Even in last position with Alms(X)/Gold openings, this should work. On T3, T4, & T5 they buy 3 Prov each. On T6 they have only 4 cards so they can go for a duchy each. I can then grab 3 Provinces and 7 Duchies for an easy win. Ditching 2 events is going to be tough, it is very hard not have control of top deck (Tfair) or quick value gain (maybe there is a shot without Pilgrimage).

[J Reggie]

I'm not sure Pilgrimage works here. You need to turn over your Journey token once to gain anything.

[jomini]

I'm not sure Pilgrimage works here. You need to turn over your Journey token once to gain anything.

I believe you are right, well does this finally beat all 3 of the buggers?

Cards:
1. Chancellor
2. Scavenger
3. Messenger
4. Bm
5. Develop (Dev)
6. Kc
7. Band of misfits (Bom)
8. Wt
9. Fort
10. Procession (Prssn)
11. Goons
Events:
Tfair
Borrow
Alms
Quest
Ball

T1: Tfair, buy Curse x2 to top deck
T2: - : Borrow, buy Tfair using Baker coin, buy Quest (discard Curses for a Gold to top deck), Alms (gain Dev to deck top)
T3: Dev (trash Gold, gain Kc/Bom): Alms (gain Fort)
T4: Kc -> Bom (Scav: Discard each time, top deck Fort): Borrow, Tfair, Ball (gain PrssnPrssn to top deck), Alms (gain Wt to tp deck)
T5: Prssn1 -> Prssn2 -> Fort (trash Fort, gain Bom2 to top deck with Wt, regain Fort) -> Fort (draw Bom2, trash Fort, gain Bom3, regain Fort, trash Prssn2, gain Bom4)

At this point my hand is Bom2FortWtXXX

So this should work like before - gain cards to deck top by revealing Wt and chaining through the Bom:
Bom2 (Prssn) -> Fort (draw Bom3Bom4, trash Fort, gain Bom5) -> Bom3 (Prssn) -> Bom4 (Prssn) -> Fort (draw Bom5, trash Fort, gain Bom6, regain Fort) -> Bom5 (Prssn) -> Fort (draw Bom6, trash Fort, gain Bom7, regain Fort) -> Bom6 (Prssn) -> Fort (draw Bom7, trash Fort, gain Bom8, regain Fort) -> Bom7 -> Fort (draw Bom8, trash Fort, gain Bom9, regain Fort)

So right now my hand is Bom8FortWt + 9  cards, I have  4 Bom waiting to finish a Prssn chain and Bom9 on deck top.

-> Fort (draw a card & Bom9, trash Fort, gain Bom10, regain Fort, trash Bom4-8, gain Goons1-4 to top deck)

Bom8 (Prssn) -> Bom9 (Fort: draw Goons1-2, trash Bom9, gain Goons5 to top deck, regain Bom9) -> Bom9 (Prssn) -> Bom10 (Fort: draw Goons3-4, trash Bom10, gain Goons6, regain Bom10) -> Bom10 (Prssn) -> Fort (draw Goons5-6)

6 Goons in play gives me 11 (-1$ token from Ball), but I Borrow to make it 12. I have 7 buys, but I buy 6 Tfairs for 13 buys (buying out Curses to trash with Wt). 13 * 6 = 78 VP. At most, any opponent can gain 6 Provinces, 12 duchies, and 12 estates which is 84 VP. However, even Messenger cannot gain more than 2 cards a turn and there are 27 cards to nab - I have 13 more turns. If I just Alms an estate for 5 turns that gives me 83 VP vs 81 VP possible.

[mith]

Wow, that may be most of the way to a solution for "Buy the supply by turn 5 without perfect shuffle luck."

[Limetime]

Wow, that may be most of the way to a solution for "Buy the supply by turn 5 without perfect shuffle luck."

Now I want to play it and win every single time.

[jomini]

Wow, that may be most of the way to a solution for "Buy the supply by turn 5 without perfect shuffle luck."

I am not so sure. One of the big tricks for "buy the supply" is a mass of Hagglers working in the the Black market deck; dipping into there with worst possible luck will be a nightmare - think of hitting Transmute, Vineyard & Poorhouse. Once I run through the Bom and Prssn I have few ways to generate a card explosion of that magnitude. Dev/Bv/Haggler might be doable if we drop Chancellor and Messenger from the kingdom, but I suspect we are looking at another turn or 2 at least.

I suspect emptying the supply will be a LOT easier with a $15 Doc on T4. Without the curses we just have 3 or 4 cards in hand/play and 10 in the discard. We can Tfair up some Alms on T4 and have a spare Alms on T3. Kc -> Prssn -> Fort is a much more versatile chain that what I have going here.

[Limetime]

Wow, that may be most of the way to a solution for "Buy the supply by turn 5 without perfect shuffle luck."

I am not so sure. One of the big tricks for "buy the supply" is a mass of Hagglers working in the the Black market deck; dipping into there with worst possible luck will be a nightmare - think of hitting Transmute, Vineyard & Poorhouse. Once I run through the Bom and Prssn I have few ways to generate a card explosion of that magnitude. Dev/Bv/Haggler might be doable if we drop Chancellor and Messenger from the kingdom, but I suspect we are looking at another turn or 2 at least.

I suspect emptying the supply will be a LOT easier with a $15 Doc on T4. Without the curses we just have 3 or 4 cards in hand/play and 10 in the discard. We can Tfair up some Alms on T4 and have a spare Alms on T3. Kc -> Prssn -> Fort is a much more versatile chain that what I have going here.

You can just not put vineyards in the bm deck

[DG]

This isn't part of the puzzle, this a lucky scavenger game from yesterday where I get perfect shuffle luck up until turn 9 buying scavenger, silver, gold, gold, hunting grounds, gold (with 8 coins), province, province, province. I still lose as my opponent was playing a mirror and managed 4 provinces in 10 turns. http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?http://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160224/log.0.1456276632969.txt

[mith]

Wow, that may be most of the way to a solution for "Buy the supply by turn 5 without perfect shuffle luck."

I am not so sure. One of the big tricks for "buy the supply" is a mass of Hagglers working in the the Black market deck; dipping into there with worst possible luck will be a nightmare - think of hitting Transmute, Vineyard & Poorhouse. Once I run through the Bom and Prssn I have few ways to generate a card explosion of that magnitude. Dev/Bv/Haggler might be doable if we drop Chancellor and Messenger from the kingdom, but I suspect we are looking at another turn or 2 at least.

I suspect emptying the supply will be a LOT easier with a $15 Doc on T4. Without the curses we just have 3 or 4 cards in hand/play and 10 in the discard. We can Tfair up some Alms on T4 and have a spare Alms on T3. Kc -> Prssn -> Fort is a much more versatile chain that what I have going here.

Wow, that may be most of the way to a solution for "Buy the supply by turn 5 without perfect shuffle luck."

I am not so sure. One of the big tricks for "buy the supply" is a mass of Hagglers working in the the Black market deck; dipping into there with worst possible luck will be a nightmare - think of hitting Transmute, Vineyard & Poorhouse. Once I run through the Bom and Prssn I have few ways to generate a card explosion of that magnitude. Dev/Bv/Haggler might be doable if we drop Chancellor and Messenger from the kingdom, but I suspect we are looking at another turn or 2 at least.

I suspect emptying the supply will be a LOT easier with a $15 Doc on T4. Without the curses we just have 3 or 4 cards in hand/play and 10 in the discard. We can Tfair up some Alms on T4 and have a spare Alms on T3. Kc -> Prssn -> Fort is a much more versatile chain that what I have going here.

I'm assuming we can set up the Black Market deck however we want. It almost doesn't matter what's in there - we want to gain all the King's Courts as soon as possible, which can be done by buying Prince/Peddler. With a minimum BM deck of 15 cards, we can guarantee buying one of those cards by the 5th BM play, which is the same result as CC's 4 turn solution. Otherwise, we'll want to load it up with expensive cards to maximize our Haggler gains, and there are plenty of those for a small BM deck.

We should have plenty of space in the kingdom: Develop, King's Court, Band of Misfits, Procession, Fortress, Watchtower, Catacombs, Haggler, Black Market, [Scavenger/Death Cart], which leaves one slot with Young Witch (and Baker) in the Black Market.

I don't think we need the Curses to get this going, either - we can afford Borrow + Expedition on turn 1, and discard our 6 card hand to Quest on turn 2. And we don't need Doctor; $15 is enough for TF+TF+Ball+Ball+Alms, leaving us turn 5 with Procession/Procession/Procession/Fortress/Watchtower. (Doctor probably works as well, but not using it saves a slot for something else.)

[jomini]

Wow, that may be most of the way to a solution for "Buy the supply by turn 5 without perfect shuffle luck."

I am not so sure. One of the big tricks for "buy the supply" is a mass of Hagglers working in the the Black market deck; dipping into there with worst possible luck will be a nightmare - think of hitting Transmute, Vineyard & Poorhouse. Once I run through the Bom and Prssn I have few ways to generate a card explosion of that magnitude. Dev/Bv/Haggler might be doable if we drop Chancellor and Messenger from the kingdom, but I suspect we are looking at another turn or 2 at least.

I suspect emptying the supply will be a LOT easier with a $15 Doc on T4. Without the curses we just have 3 or 4 cards in hand/play and 10 in the discard. We can Tfair up some Alms on T4 and have a spare Alms on T3. Kc -> Prssn -> Fort is a much more versatile chain that what I have going here.

Wow, that may be most of the way to a solution for "Buy the supply by turn 5 without perfect shuffle luck."

I am not so sure. One of the big tricks for "buy the supply" is a mass of Hagglers working in the the Black market deck; dipping into there with worst possible luck will be a nightmare - think of hitting Transmute, Vineyard & Poorhouse. Once I run through the Bom and Prssn I have few ways to generate a card explosion of that magnitude. Dev/Bv/Haggler might be doable if we drop Chancellor and Messenger from the kingdom, but I suspect we are looking at another turn or 2 at least.

I suspect emptying the supply will be a LOT easier with a $15 Doc on T4. Without the curses we just have 3 or 4 cards in hand/play and 10 in the discard. We can Tfair up some Alms on T4 and have a spare Alms on T3. Kc -> Prssn -> Fort is a much more versatile chain that what I have going here.

I'm assuming we can set up the Black Market deck however we want. It almost doesn't matter what's in there - we want to gain all the King's Courts as soon as possible, which can be done by buying Prince/Peddler. With a minimum BM deck of 15 cards, we can guarantee buying one of those cards by the 5th BM play, which is the same result as CC's 4 turn solution. Otherwise, we'll want to load it up with expensive cards to maximize our Haggler gains, and there are plenty of those for a small BM deck.

We should have plenty of space in the kingdom: Develop, King's Court, Band of Misfits, Procession, Fortress, Watchtower, Catacombs, Haggler, Black Market, [Scavenger/Death Cart], which leaves one slot with Young Witch (and Baker) in the Black Market.

I don't think we need the Curses to get this going, either - we can afford Borrow + Expedition on turn 1, and discard our 6 card hand to Quest on turn 2. And we don't need Doctor; $15 is enough for TF+TF+Ball+Ball+Alms, leaving us turn 5 with Procession/Procession/Procession/Fortress/Watchtower. (Doctor probably works as well, but not using it saves a slot for something else.)

I just wanted to say thanks, the Tfairx2Ballx2Alms opening was just barely enough to get things going to let Bv/Dev/Haggler work out. If I have done it successfully in the other thread, I think we may have found the ultimate in
You Make Your Own Shuffle Luck

=)