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Author Topic: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Results!)  (Read 7309 times)

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mith

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2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Results!)
« on: February 13, 2016, 06:40:42 pm »
+2

Results!
View Finalists
View Cards Submitted

This is the fourth contest for this year's set. This week's challenge: Design a card which would fit well in the Intrigue expansion!

Submission Rules

• Each participant may submit one card per challenge.
• Participation in previous or future challenges is not required to participate in this one.
• Submit your card to me via this forum's messaging system. Submissions made after each week's deadline cannot be accepted.
• Each card you submit must have a name, a cost, a list of types, and the exact wording that should appear on the card.  Also include a brief description of any special design considerations (e.g., Stash having a unique back), but do NOT include any other information, such as strategic commentary or examples about it would play.
• The name you give your card will appear on the ballot. If multiple cards with the same name are submitted, I will differentiate them with letters in a randomly chosen order, e.g. [Card Name] A, [Card Name] B, etc. Cards themselves will likewise be listed in a random order on the ballot.
• I will accept revisions to your contest entries provided they are submitted to me before the deadline.  If you submit a revision to an entry you have previously submitted to me, resubmit your revised card(s) in their entirety.
• Only submit cards that are your own design.
• You may submit cards that have been previously posted here in this forum, including those that have been refined by the community as a whole, provided you can still claim that the central conceit of the card -- and the majority of its final version -- is yours.
• A single card might conceivably qualify for multiple challenges within this series. If your card doesn't win the first challenge you submit it to, you may submit it for any and all future challenges (until it wins), provided the card fits those challenges. This is particularly pertinent for cards that don't win the first of two slots for a large expansion, although depending on which card does win, your card may not qualify for the second challenge.
• Do not disclose your submissions publicly, either in this thread or elsewhere!

Except where specified, you may not submit cards combine certain mechanics from multiple expansions. The idea is that you could simply slot the cards into their respective sets without needing components or rules specific to another set. Specifically:

• Duration cards may only be submitted as candidates for a Seaside or Adventures slot.
• Potion-cost cards may only be submitted as candidates for the Alchemy slot.
• Cards that use VP tokens or cost $7 or more may only be submitted as candidates for a Prosperity slot.
• Cards that use Coin tokens and cards that use overpay may only be submitted as candidates for the Guilds slot.
• Cards that use Ruins (Looters) and cards that use Spoils may only be submitted as candidates for a Dark Ages slot.
• Traveller cards, Reserve cards, and cards making use of player Tokens may only be submitted as candidates for an Adventures slot.

Many mechanics are fair game for any submission. The following is an incomplete list.

• Victory/Action and Victory/Treasure hybrid cards.
• Cards that allow you to choose an ability from a list.
• Cards with on-buy, would-gain, on-gain, and on-trash abilities.



Challenge #4: Intrigue

Design a Kingdom card that would fit into the Intrigue expansion. Such a card could have one or more of the following qualities:

• Gives you choices.
• Is a Victory card (including dual-type cards).
• Cares about Victory cards.

The winner from 2014 is:

Quote from: Fragasnap
Prefecture
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
Reveal cards from your deck until you reveal a Victory card. If you do, put it and one other revealed card into your hand. Discard the rest.

Worth 2 VP.

Keep in mind that voters may want something that fills a different niche this time around.

Submissions are due by the end of Monday, 2016-02-22.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 11:50:39 am by mith »
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2016, 06:43:28 pm »
+1

The runner-up from 2014 will automatically be included in the preliminary voting. The author of this card is allowed to submit a new card as well. (As is Fragasnap, designer of the winning card.)

Quote
Landlord
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. You may discard a Victory card. If you do, +1 Action.

Worth 1 VP per empty Supply pile.

Other cards from 2014 may be resubmitted as is, tweaked, or discarded in favor of a new concept.
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Graystripe77

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2016, 02:48:47 pm »
0

I have 3 cards I think would do well for this contest, but I submitted my choice in hopes of using the others in future contests. Good luck to everyone!
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2016, 04:35:50 pm »
0

Last day for submissions!
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2016, 11:00:50 am »
+1

Quote
Vizier
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
You may choose an Action card from your hand. If you do, the player to your left chooses: either you play it twice, or you play it once and every player other than yourself discards down to three cards in hand.

Quote
Undertaker
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Choose one: +2 Actions and put any number of cards from your hand on the bottom of your deck; or +2 Cards.

While this is in play, when you would draw from the top of your deck, draw from the bottom instead.

Quote
Tribunal
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 action
Discard a card from your hand. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, put the revealed cards that share a type with the discarded card into your hand, trash the rest.

Quote
Slanderer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. If it is an Action card, gain three Action cards costing less than it.

Quote
Shady Dealer
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+$2
Each other player gains a Swamp from the Swamp pile

Swamp
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $0
+1 Buy
You may discard a card. If you do, +1 card

When another player gains a Victory card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, return this card to the supply.

Setup: When Shady Dealer is in the Kingdom or Black Market deck, add the Swamp pile to the kingdom. Have 10 for two players, 20 for three players and 30 for four players.

Quote
Royal Tutor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
You may play an action card from your hand. If you do so, play another action from the supply costing up to the cost of the first played card.

Clarification: The second card remains in the supply.

Quote
Pledge
Types: Treasure – Action
Cost: $4
+ 1 Card + 1 Action
You may trash this card. If you do: + 1 Card.

Worth $2

Clarification: When you play this card in your Action phase, it counts as an Action card, when you play it in your Buy phase (this includes the additional Buy phase of Black Market), it counts as a Treasure Card. (That is, this card can played as a plain cantrip OR a oneshot Laboratory OR a Silver.) As long Pledge is not in play (e. g. if it is in the supply, in a player's deck or on a player's hand), it counts as both Treasure and Action card. But once you put it in play, it counts as only one type of card for the rest of your turn. If you Prince or Golem Pledge, it will always count as Action card, because it comes into play in your Action phase. Mint will only trash Pledge, if it was played in your Buy phase.

Quote
Penal System
Types: Treasure – Victory – Reaction
Cost: $3
Worth $1
Worth 1VP

When a player plays an Attack, you may reveal this. If you do, that player may not play any more Action cards this turn.

Quote
Parade
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Choose one: Play an action card from your hand twice, or draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

Quote
Outskirts
Types: Victory
Cost: $4
Worth 2VP

When you buy this, gain another Outskirts.

Setup: Use 11 copies in 2-player, 15 in 3-4 player, and 18 in 5/6 player games.

Quote
Masons
Types: Action – Treasure
Cost: $6
If you play this as an action, +3 Cards
If you play this as a treasure, Worth $2

Quote
Livery
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 cards
You may reveal a card from your hand; if it is an...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, +$1
Victory card, +1 Card

Quote
Landlord
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. You may discard a Victory card. If you do, +1 Action.

Worth 1 VP per empty Supply pile.

Quote
King's Feast
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Action
Choose 3 times:
+1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1

Quote
Heir
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may discard an Estate. If you do: +3 Cards
You may discard a Duchy. If you do: +$3
You may discard a Victory Card. If you do: +1 Action

Clarification: The options are independent and in order, meaning that you discard 0 to 3 cards.

Quote
Counsellor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $5.
Each other player chooses one: he draws a card or trashes a card from his hand.

Quote
Cordwainer
Cost: $5
Types: Action
+3 Cards
Reveal your hand. If you have exactly one Action card in hand, +1 Action.

Quote
Auditor
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
All players draw two cards. Each other player reveals his hand. You choose two cards that they have to put on top of their deck.

Quote
Abandoned Village
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

When a player gains a victory card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, gain a Silver, putting it into your hand. Return this to your hand at the start of your next turn.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 03:35:53 pm by mith »
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2016, 11:32:26 am »
0

Oops, forgot to include Landlord. Reset voting.
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2016, 11:32:36 am »
0

Vizier is too weak, Undertaker is a cool idea, Shady Dealer is interesting as a weak Junker, Royal Tutor is the most interesting TR variant (kinda funny how many there are), Pledge is far too strong, Penal System is a Reaction that counterattacks and thus should not exist, Parade seems OK, Outskirts is too automatic in the endgame, Masons, Livery and Kings Feast (borderline OK as Lab is often bought for 6) are too weak, Heir and Councellor are OK, Cordwainer is probably my favourite, Auditor looks like an interesting Ghost Ship variant (not to mention that I am a sucker for cheap attacks) and Abandoned Village, a kind of superweakened Explorer, is something I cannot imagine ever buying.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 11:51:46 am by tristan »
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Limetime

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2016, 12:00:11 pm »
0

Quote
Vizier
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
You may choose an Action card from your hand. If you do, the player to your left chooses: either you play it twice, or you play it once and every player other than yourself discards down to three cards in hand.
Isn't throne room strictly better than this?

Quote
Undertaker
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Choose one: +2 Actions and put any number of cards from your hand on the bottom of your deck; or +2 Cards.

While this is in play, when you would draw from the top of your deck, draw from the bottom instead.
Necropolis with a benefit /moat Not sure how useful the necropolis benefit and the thing under the line is.
Quote
Tribunal
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 action
Discard a card from your hand. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, put the revealed cards that share a type with the discarded card into your hand, trash the rest.
Interesting thrasher/draw. I bet people will complain about how swingy it is and how quick it turns bad.
Eg if you have a bunch of actions and provinces it is not useful
Quote
Slanderer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. If it is an Action card, gain three Action cards costing less than it.
I like this one. Trash a altar to gain three fivers seems like a really good trade. Slow trashing otherwise.
Quote
Shady Dealer
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+$2
Each other player gains a Swamp from the Swamp pile

Swamp
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $0
+1 Buy
You may discard a card. If you do, +1 card

When another player gains a Victory card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, return this card to the supply.

Setup: When Shady Dealer is in the Kingdom or Black Market deck, add the Swamp pile to the kingdom. Have 10 for two players, 20 for three players and 30 for four players.
Do we have enough junkers?
Quote
Royal Tutor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
You may play an action card from your hand. If you do so, play another action from the supply costing up to the cost of the first played card.

Clarification: The second card remains in the supply.
Seems too cwazy with kc.
Quote
Pledge
Types: Treasure – Action
Cost: $4
+ 1 Card + 1 Action
You may trash this card. If you do: + 1 Card.

Worth $2

Clarification: When you play this card in your Action phase, it counts as an Action card, when you play it in your Buy phase (this includes the additional Buy phase of Black Market), it counts as a Treasure Card. (That is, this card can played as a plain cantrip OR a oneshot Laboratory OR a Silver.) As long Pledge is not in play (e. g. if it is in the supply, in a player's deck or on a player's hand), it counts as both Treasure and Action card. But once you put it in play, it counts as only one type of card for the rest of your turn. If you Prince or Golem Pledge, it will always count as Action card, because it comes into play in your Action phase. Mint will only trash Pledge, if it was played in your Buy phase.
Interesting...
Quote
Penal System
Types: Treasure – Victory – Reaction
Cost: $3
Worth $1
Worth 1VP

When a player plays an Attack, you may reveal this. If you do, that player may not play any more Action cards this turn.
Half a harem + hard counter to goons and Scrying pool, torturer. I love it!
Quote
Parade
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Choose one: Play an action card from your hand twice, or draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
Man this has tough competition with other fivers. Hand of 5 parades is so much better than five throne rooms.
Quote
Outskirts
Types: Victory
Cost: $4
Worth 2VP

When you buy this, gain another Outskirts.

Setup: Use 11 copies in 2-player, 15 in 3-4 player, and 18 in 5/6 player games.
This seems interesting. Not sure about the setup.
Quote
Masons
Types: Action – Treasure
Cost: $6
If you play this as an action, +3 Cards
If you play this as a treasure, Worth $2
Smithy that when drawn dead is a silver. In a engine it is only slightly better than SMithy without the cost factored in.
Quote
Livery
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 cards
You may reveal a card from your hand; if it is an...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, +$1
Victory card, +1 Card
If you don't have actions in your hand that you want to play just take another card/coin. Otherwise a lab.

Quote
Landlord
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. You may discard a Victory card. If you do, +1 Action.

Worth 1 VP per empty Supply pile.
This actually seems weaker than lab for much of the game. It will probably worth 1-2 Identifying whether this is better than duchy in the end is interesting especially since you have too foresee how the game ends.
Quote
King's Feast
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Action
Choose 3 times:
+1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1
Flexible like pawn except more powerful. Both this and pawn in one set seems redundant.
Quote
Heir
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may discard an Estate. If you do: +3 Cards
You may discard a Duchy. If you do: +$3
You may discard a Victory Card. If you do: +1 Action

Clarification: The options are independent and in order, meaning that you discard 0 to 3 cards.
How often will your deck have that many vp cards in it?
Quote
Counsellor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $5.
Each other player chooses one: he draws a card or trashes a card from his hand.
Cheaper uni that you can open with. Good with great 5 costs.
Quote
Cordwainer
Cost: $5
Types: Action
+3 Cards
Reveal your hand. If you have exactly one Action card in hand, +1 Action.
Interesting...
Quote
Auditor
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
All players draw two cards. Each other player reveals his hand. You choose two cards that they have to put on top of their deck.
Seems potent especially without trashing.
Quote
Abandoned Village
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card

When a player gains a victory card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, gain a Silver, putting it into your hand. Return this to your hand at the start of your next turn.
Abandoned reminds me of ruins. Village reminds me of village. This is neither... Anyway this seems incredibly weak. SIlver isn't that good of a card.
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enfynet

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2016, 12:19:15 pm »
0

Aww crap I missed this one.
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2016, 01:57:54 pm »
+1

Will comment more later, but don't Shady Dealer and Outskirts go against the plans for the set as a whole?  I thought there was a plan to have the Treasure Chest match the traditional size of a large expansion, and the contents were already planned out somewhat strictly, with only a little flex room for Victory cards and such.  Adventures already breaks those plans, so are we just dropping the outline entirely? 

Or am I crazy and there never was an outline to begin with?

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markusin

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2016, 02:43:30 pm »
+1

Will comment more later, but don't Shady Dealer and Outskirts go against the plans for the set as a whole?  I thought there was a plan to have the Treasure Chest match the traditional size of a large expansion, and the contents were already planned out somewhat strictly, with only a little flex room for Victory cards and such.  Adventures already breaks those plans, so are we just dropping the outline entirely? 

Or am I crazy and there never was an outline to begin with?

Before Adventures came into the picture, the plan was to have a 150 card expansion, including the 13 blue-backed cards to go along with the 13 kingdom cards.
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2016, 02:43:53 pm »
+2

The plan for the original contest was to match the size of a small expansion, with 2 cards for each existing large expansion and 1 card for each small expansion - with one of those cards being a Victory card (Prefecture), plus randomizers, that would have gotten us to 145 (so room for 5 Prizes).

The intent for this one is to go up to large expansion size (so another ~13 kingdom cards), but not all the slots are allocated (so far, only Base, Adventures x2, and Promo; plus some Events to fill out the set). When we're closer to finishing the original contest slots, I'll be asking for more input on what those extra slots should be.

(I'm not as concerned about fitting this into a particular number of cards as LastFootnote was, though; I think the better question to ask right now is whether the designs requiring additional cards are good enough to warrant the extra setup and space.)
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AdrianHealey

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2016, 06:39:48 am »
0

I don't want to be Mister Negative, but I am not super woo'd by these submissions in general.

Quote
Vizier
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
You may choose an Action card from your hand. If you do, the player to your left chooses: either you play it twice, or you play it once and every player other than yourself discards down to three cards in hand.

Sounds interesting, but I am fearing that this might end up into politics. Especially in a four player game, where the two remaining players could have very different quality of hands and then try to convince him/her to either do A or B. I could be wrong in my estimate, but it's not an unreasonable prediction. In a two player game, I definitely like the concept.

Quote
Undertaker
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Choose one: +2 Actions and put any number of cards from your hand on the bottom of your deck; or +2 Cards.

While this is in play, when you would draw from the top of your deck, draw from the bottom instead.

A moat/necropolis with not a super relevant effect? Not overwhelming imo.

Quote
Tribunal
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 action
Discard a card from your hand. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, put the revealed cards that share a type with the discarded card into your hand, trash the rest.

This is an interesting card, but it doesn't feel very Intrigue to me. (It feels like a variant of Lookout/Seaside. Intuοtively, I associated it with Dark Ages, though.) I do like how highly technical the card is. Not for newbies, for sure.

Quote
Slanderer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. If it is an Action card, gain three Action cards costing less than it.

Seems like a pile control card more than anything else (especially in a universe where 'it's better to have one really good thing than several ok things'.) Not convinced this really adds much than that. (Again: also doesn't really feel Intrigue, imo.) I also don't generally like pile control cards that can 'cheapily' lower an action supply pile by three. Could be somewhat strategic in a universe with only one village and good enginge possibilities, but another word for strategic could be 'swingy' (think treasure map kind of effect; because you need Slanderer and 5/6 action card in your hand together.). I am not woo'd by something like that.

Quote
Shady Dealer
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+$2
Each other player gains a Swamp from the Swamp pile

Swamp
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $0
+1 Buy
You may discard a card. If you do, +1 card

When another player gains a Victory card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, return this card to the supply.

Setup: When Shady Dealer is in the Kingdom or Black Market deck, add the Swamp pile to the kingdom. Have 10 for two players, 20 for three players and 30 for four players.

Someone wants to make a terminal draw+coins work? Haha. It's a fun looter/attack kind, but I am not sure we need/want another kind to attack your deck.

Quote
Royal Tutor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
You may play an action card from your hand. If you do so, play another action from the supply costing up to the cost of the first played card.

Clarification: The second card remains in the supply.

Throneroom marries band of misfits? Fun, original combination. I have a feeling (but always ignore people's feelings; only look at the evidence they present) this might turn out weird, but I have no good argument for it. So let's stick with 'fun' and 'original'.

Quote
Pledge
Types: Treasure – Action
Cost: $4
+ 1 Card + 1 Action
You may trash this card. If you do: + 1 Card.

Worth $2

Clarification: When you play this card in your Action phase, it counts as an Action card, when you play it in your Buy phase (this includes the additional Buy phase of Black Market), it counts as a Treasure Card. (That is, this card can played as a plain cantrip OR a oneshot Laboratory OR a Silver.) As long Pledge is not in play (e. g. if it is in the supply, in a player's deck or on a player's hand), it counts as both Treasure and Action card. But once you put it in play, it counts as only one type of card for the rest of your turn. If you Prince or Golem Pledge, it will always count as Action card, because it comes into play in your Action phase. Mint will only trash Pledge, if it was played in your Buy phase.

Slightly underwhelming. I have seen other cards with the same concept that I liked more. Especially the one shot laboratory seems a bit redundant. It seems I would rather just buy silver or other sources of draw.

Quote
Penal System
Types: Treasure – Victory – Reaction
Cost: $3
Worth $1
Worth 1VP

When a player plays an Attack, you may reveal this. If you do, that player may not play any more Action cards this turn.

Seems like an absurdly bad card for play play reasons. If this card is in the kingdom, and people start buying them, you immediatelly make attack cards completely irrelevant. I don't think that's the good way to go. This ignores (imo) the rule that you don't want reactions to hurt the attacking player, because then attacks just don't work.

Quote
Parade
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Choose one: Play an action card from your hand twice, or draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

Should probably be more expensive, because of the insane self-synergy. Having two throne rooms in your hand sucks monkey balls. Having 2 parades could be a blessing in disguise. And the more the marrier! The self synergy is fun, but that's why I think it should be more expensive.

Quote
Outskirts
Types: Victory
Cost: $4
Worth 2VP

When you buy this, gain another Outskirts.

Setup: Use 11 copies in 2-player, 15 in 3-4 player, and 18 in 5/6 player games.

Set up could use some explanation? I am not sure why (or when) I would bleed my deck with several of these, except by the end in stead of duchies? I like the idea, but I think it needs something interesting to make it anything else then 'just buy it when the end is near'.


Quote
Masons
Types: Action – Treasure
Cost: $6
If you play this as an action, +3 Cards
If you play this as a treasure, Worth $2

This is a better variant of the concept than pledge, imo. A smithy that you can never draw dead (so it self-synergizes); seems interesting enough. (Not as much fun in a kingdom with both smithy and Masons, but still.)

Quote
Livery
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 cards
You may reveal a card from your hand; if it is an...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, +$1
Victory card, +1 Card

I like the concept, but I am not sure how to price this card. It has more options than lab, so more expensive would seem ok and you always will get *a* bonus (like +1 and +1 card, especially in the beginning of the game). Later in the game (in engines) it'll be easier to use as a lab. Some cool options, so it's probably ok priced at 6.

Quote
Landlord
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. You may discard a Victory card. If you do, +1 Action.

Worth 1 VP per empty Supply pile.

I like Heir (which I consider to be of a similar concept) more than this particular one. My suggestion to tweak it would be a '+1 Action, +2 Cards, you may discard a victory card. If you do: +1 Action. Worthy 1 VP per empty supply pile.' and then prize it higher. Or not. After typing it, I am not overwhelmed either. I like the idea of vanilla + discard victory card get more bonus + worth 1 vp per empty supply pile, but the current one seems a bit to bland.

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King's Feast
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Action
Choose 3 times:
+1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1

This is so Intrigue, it's like Pawn got a big brother! It could be a smithy, a peddler, a village, a lab and a bunch of other things. Flexible, but maybe a bit redundant if you already have Pawn.

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Heir
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may discard an Estate. If you do: +3 Cards
You may discard a Duchy. If you do: +$3
You may discard a Victory Card. If you do: +1 Action

Clarification: The options are independent and in order, meaning that you discard 0 to 3 cards.

I have already played with this card (in a duke game) and it's quite a fun card. It starts awesome, but by the end it sometimes looses it's fuel (when you have more cards and thus less victory cards). Very fun card, imo. (It also gives a reason to buy victory cards, which is always fun, imo.)

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Counsellor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $5.
Each other player chooses one: he draws a card or trashes a card from his hand.

Meh, I am usually not a fan of bland 'get a card' cards, especially not if you can get cards up to $5.

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Cordwainer
Cost: $5
Types: Action
+3 Cards
Reveal your hand. If you have exactly one Action card in hand, +1 Action.

This is a very tricky card. Hard for me to imagine the kind of deck where this is a reasonable thing to  happen. Intuitively, I'd say a Poor House effect would maybe be cooler? + X number of actions, minus one for every action card in your hand. I am not convinced of the card as is. Seems very niche at best.

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Auditor
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
All players draw two cards. Each other player reveals his hand. You choose two cards that they have to put on top of their deck.

This is rougher than it sounds. Ok, sure, you still have 5 cards, but they are your 5 worst cards. Also sounds slow to resolve.

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Abandoned Village
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card

When a player gains a victory card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, gain a Silver, putting it into your hand. Return this to your hand at the start of your next turn.

Doesn't sound like a card I would buy a lot, and seems better in slugs? It's like a bad horse traders effect, imo. Not convinced.
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2016, 06:00:07 pm »
0

One of these is mine.


Quote
Vizier
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
You may choose an Action card from your hand. If you do, the player to your left chooses: either you play it twice, or you play it once and every player other than yourself discards down to three cards in hand.

As has been mentioned, this is actually weaker than Throne Room.  The attack isn't really an attack if your opponent can decide against it.  And if for some reason they want to discard, all your future Viziers become useless.

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Undertaker
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Choose one: +2 Actions and put any number of cards from your hand on the bottom of your deck; or +2 Cards.

While this is in play, when you would draw from the top of your deck, draw from the bottom instead.

The vanilla choices are a nice complement to Pawn and Steward, though boring.  But the while-in-play effect turns this into a way to save specific cards for later.  It also lets you combo with other draw cards (which is good because it's own +2 cards is a little weak for that) and also does interesting things to cards like Wishing Well, Ironmonger and Wandering Minstrel.  Overall I think it is very... intriguing.

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Tribunal
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 action
Discard a card from your hand. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, put the revealed cards that share a type with the discarded card into your hand, trash the rest.

I find this card tough to evaluate.  Overall, it sounds like it would be too unreliable?  If you're running it for treasure, this seems worse than Stables.  If you're doing it for actions, it's sort of like Lab if you have really high action density but less consistent.  But then there is the mandatory trashing.  Early on this can be a good way to clear out Estates.  Clearing out Copper is slightly tougher if you care about keeping better Treasures.  But once you have a few key action cards, you would hate to discard anything other than an action lest you be forced to trash a bunch of them by accident.  And when you start greening, you would hate to discard anything other than a Victory card lest you be forced to trash Provinces.  So you end up not wanting to play this at all... That's not necessarily a problem (I am a fan of Lookout) but I don't think it's a good feature for a $5 card when the risk is so high.

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Slanderer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. If it is an Action card, gain three Action cards costing less than it.

I think this is pretty interesting.  It's like Develop with more potential.  But does it fit Intrigue?

Quote
Shady Dealer
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+$2
Each other player gains a Swamp from the Swamp pile

Swamp
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $0
+1 Buy
You may discard a card. If you do, +1 card

When another player gains a Victory card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, return this card to the supply.

Setup: When Shady Dealer is in the Kingdom or Black Market deck, add the Swamp pile to the kingdom. Have 10 for two players, 20 for three players and 30 for four players.

I'm just not interested in having another junker for Intrigue.

Quote
Royal Tutor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
You may play an action card from your hand. If you do so, play another action from the supply costing up to the cost of the first played card.

Clarification: The second card remains in the supply.

Throne Room mixed with Band of Misfits.  Though the second play is for something cheaper than the first one, the flexibility makes it valuable.  I like it.

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Pledge
Types: Treasure – Action
Cost: $4
+ 1 Card + 1 Action
You may trash this card. If you do: + 1 Card.

Worth $2

Clarification: When you play this card in your Action phase, it counts as an Action card, when you play it in your Buy phase (this includes the additional Buy phase of Black Market), it counts as a Treasure Card. (That is, this card can played as a plain cantrip OR a oneshot Laboratory OR a Silver.) As long Pledge is not in play (e. g. if it is in the supply, in a player's deck or on a player's hand), it counts as both Treasure and Action card. But once you put it in play, it counts as only one type of card for the rest of your turn. If you Prince or Golem Pledge, it will always count as Action card, because it comes into play in your Action phase. Mint will only trash Pledge, if it was played in your Buy phase.

As a Silver+ this should cost $5.  I'm OK with the idea of Treasure-Action but this clarification really goes against what I'd expect.  The Mint interaction described here feels particularly wrong.

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Penal System
Types: Treasure – Victory – Reaction
Cost: $3
Worth $1
Worth 1VP

When a player plays an Attack, you may reveal this. If you do, that player may not play any more Action cards this turn.

I don't think reactions that hurt the attacker are a good idea for Dominion.  It's also unclear what would happen if you were forced to play more Action cards.  If I play KC-Cultist, would this reaction prevent me from chaining more Cultists to the first?  Would it even prevent the second and third plays from KC?

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Parade
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Choose one: Play an action card from your hand twice, or draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

There sure are a lot of TR variants in this contest.  I don't know how to feel about this one.  It seems dangerous to have such high potential draw on a splitter like this but... I don't know.  It could be cool.

Quote
Outskirts
Types: Victory
Cost: $4
Worth 2VP

When you buy this, gain another Outskirts.

Setup: Use 11 copies in 2-player, 15 in 3-4 player, and 18 in 5/6 player games.

I think this could be done better without needing so many extra copies by having it be worth 3VP and gain an Estate.  Other than that, I think the concept is fine.

Quote
Masons
Types: Action – Treasure
Cost: $6
If you play this as an action, +3 Cards
If you play this as a treasure, Worth $2

I like this better than Pledge as an Action-Treasure, but it's still a little lacklustre to me.  I think it fits Intrigue very well though.

Quote
Livery
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 cards
You may reveal a card from your hand; if it is an...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, +$1
Victory card, +1 Card

It can't cost $5 because it's almost strictly superior to Lab, but it still sounds weak.  Hmm.

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Landlord
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. You may discard a Victory card. If you do, +1 Action.

Worth 1 VP per empty Supply pile.

Less reliable than Lab, but worth some VP.  I think it could be good.  I'm a fan of counting empty Supply piles.

Quote
King's Feast
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Action
Choose 3 times:
+1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1

Simple enough in design, but the high flexibility could make it tough to track and complicated to play.  I really hope it works because I think it could be interesting in many different kingdoms.

Quote
Heir
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may discard an Estate. If you do: +3 Cards
You may discard a Duchy. If you do: +$3
You may discard a Victory Card. If you do: +1 Action

Clarification: The options are independent and in order, meaning that you discard 0 to 3 cards.

It encourages you to build a deck with more green that is typical.  I like it.

Quote
Counsellor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $5.
Each other player chooses one: he draws a card or trashes a card from his hand.

Gaining a $5 is really powerful, but the benefit to opponents is also huge.  I have no idea if this is balanced, but I like the concept.

Quote
Cordwainer
Cost: $5
Types: Action
+3 Cards
Reveal your hand. If you have exactly one Action card in hand, +1 Action.

I don't think this actually qualifies for this contest.  It doesn't have any choices in it, it isn't a Victory card, it doesn't care about Victory cards.  Am I missing something?

Quote
Auditor
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
All players draw two cards. Each other player reveals his hand. You choose two cards that they have to put on top of their deck.

Spy is already slow to resolve and that's just looking at 1 card per other player.  This is looking at 7 cards per other player...

Quote
Abandoned Village
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card

When a player gains a victory card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, gain a Silver, putting it into your hand. Return this to your hand at the start of your next turn.

This is super weak, isn't it?  It's a ruined library.  The reaction is for something that doesn't happen until late game, and it's not that great anyway?  I mean, I guess the implicit +$2 can be nice, but it just doesn't seem worth it.
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2016, 06:17:27 pm »
0

I don't think this actually qualifies for this contest.  It doesn't have any choices in it, it isn't a Victory card, it doesn't care about Victory cards.  Am I missing something?

The list of themes/qualities is not exhaustive - the question is whether a card fits well with the set or not.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2016, 06:21:53 pm »
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I hope to comment on all the cards later in the week, but I just wanted to point this out because it's really bothering me.

Quote
Pledge
Types: Treasure – Action
Cost: $4
+ 1 Card + 1 Action
You may trash this card. If you do: + 1 Card.

Worth $2

Clarification: When you play this card in your Action phase, it counts as an Action card, when you play it in your Buy phase (this includes the additional Buy phase of Black Market), it counts as a Treasure Card. (That is, this card can played as a plain cantrip OR a oneshot Laboratory OR a Silver.) As long Pledge is not in play (e. g. if it is in the supply, in a player's deck or on a player's hand), it counts as both Treasure and Action card. But once you put it in play, it counts as only one type of card for the rest of your turn. If you Prince or Golem Pledge, it will always count as Action card, because it comes into play in your Action phase. Mint will only trash Pledge, if it was played in your Buy phase.

The Prince interaction noted here is not only wrong, but I think is a good example of why this implementation of a Treasure-Action wouldn't work.  Prince does not play the card during your action phase, it plays it at the start of your turn (this could happen before Durations and other stuff).  So it is possible for it to go into play at a time other than your action or buy phase, in which case it's not clear what it counts as.  Can a Princed Pledge be played as a treasure, or an action, or either, or neither?  I would think most people would assume either, or action, but the clarification here should mean it can't be just action, and it's still not clear whether it's either or neither.  I guess neither makes more sense, because you can only play it as an action during your action phase, and you can only play it as a treasure during your buy phase, and it's neither your action nor your buy phase when you play it.  But that just feels wrong...

Anyway, the other person who submitted an Action-Treasure was smart and didn't try to specify how it should work. :P  They probably new someone would jump on them for their particular implementation of it no matter how they did it.  But since it's a concept that's been intentionally avoided (sort of) because of the rules issues that would come up with it, I think part of the design of the card is to specify how exactly it should work.  The onus is on the designer to prove that it can be done cleanly in a way that makes the card worth doing.  So, even though I feel like a Treasure-Action would be a really good fit for Intrigue, I don't think I could give my vote to Masons unless someone can specify a clean way for it to work.  Even with the same specifications for how they would work, I think I like Masons better than Pledge, though both seem like good fits for Intrigue.
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2016, 06:33:42 pm »
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The main issue of Pledge and Masons is that they are too strong respectively too weak, not that it is not specified how they are supposed to interact with Prince/Golem. In the case of Pledge it is explained in a crystal clear way (nor that it wouldn't be clear otherwise that the Action part counts for Prince/Golem). As always with card games, card text or FAQ dominates the general rules.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 06:35:55 pm by tristan »
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trivialknot

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2016, 09:55:21 pm »
0

Quote
Vizier
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
You may choose an Action card from your hand. If you do, the player to your left chooses: either you play it twice, or you play it once and every player other than yourself discards down to three cards in hand.
Do you reveal the action card before or after the other player chooses?

The two choices are not balanced.  +1 action and everyone discards down to 3 is very weak.  Also, the player to your right should choose, since they probably have 5 cards still.

Quote
Undertaker
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Choose one: +2 Actions and put any number of cards from your hand on the bottom of your deck; or +2 Cards.

While this is in play, when you would draw from the top of your deck, draw from the bottom instead.
Do you draw from the bottom of your deck during cleanup?  I'm guessing not.

The most important thing here is +2 actions/+2 cards, and the other effects seem marginal.  I guess if you have extra treasure you could save them for a later terminal draw?

Quote
Tribunal
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 action
Discard a card from your hand. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, put the revealed cards that share a type with the discarded card into your hand, trash the rest.
This card will make me sad in the late game.

Quote
Slanderer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. If it is an Action card, gain three Action cards costing less than it.
It just doesn't seem as versatile as stonemason or develop.

Quote
Shady Dealer
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+$2
Each other player gains a Swamp from the Swamp pile

Swamp
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $0
+1 Buy
You may discard a card. If you do, +1 card

When another player gains a Victory card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, return this card to the supply.

Setup: When Shady Dealer is in the Kingdom or Black Market deck, add the Swamp pile to the kingdom. Have 10 for two players, 20 for three players and 30 for four players.
I feel like an alternate curse card needs to do something more novel to justify taking up so many cards.  Swamp is somewhat better than a ruins, why not compensate with a junker that feels more powerful?

Quote
Royal Tutor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
You may play an action card from your hand. If you do so, play another action from the supply costing up to the cost of the first played card.

Clarification: The second card remains in the supply.
I think there would be tracking problems, but otherwise pretty cool.

Quote
Pledge
Types: Treasure – Action
Cost: $4
+ 1 Card + 1 Action
You may trash this card. If you do: + 1 Card.

Worth $2

Clarification: When you play this card in your Action phase, it counts as an Action card, when you play it in your Buy phase (this includes the additional Buy phase of Black Market), it counts as a Treasure Card. (That is, this card can played as a plain cantrip OR a oneshot Laboratory OR a Silver.) As long Pledge is not in play (e. g. if it is in the supply, in a player's deck or on a player's hand), it counts as both Treasure and Action card. But once you put it in play, it counts as only one type of card for the rest of your turn. If you Prince or Golem Pledge, it will always count as Action card, because it comes into play in your Action phase. Mint will only trash Pledge, if it was played in your Buy phase.
I don't like a $4 card that is strictly better than silver.  Sometimes you buy a silver when you hit $4, and buying a pledge instead of a silver will just be automatic.

Quote
Penal System
Types: Treasure – Victory – Reaction
Cost: $3
Worth $1
Worth 1VP

When a player plays an Attack, you may reveal this. If you do, that player may not play any more Action cards this turn.
Noooooooo my poor actions......

Quote
Parade
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Choose one: Play an action card from your hand twice, or draw until you have 6 cards in hand.
I like this card.  I like it a lot.  It's self-synergizing but you can't build a deck out of Parade alone.  If you buy a lot of Parades, you're passing up on other good $5 actions that you could have been throning with your Parades.

Quote
Outskirts
Types: Victory
Cost: $4
Worth 2VP

When you buy this, gain another Outskirts.

Setup: Use 11 copies in 2-player, 15 in 3-4 player, and 18 in 5/6 player games.
I wonder how this compares to gardens.  Having lots of green hurts you the least when you have a big deck.  When you have a big deck, a single gardens is worth more VP than two outskirts.  Hmmm...

Quote
Masons
Types: Action – Treasure
Cost: $6
If you play this as an action, +3 Cards
If you play this as a treasure, Worth $2
If action/treasure ever gets done, this is the way to do it.  A simple card that adds a lot of flexibility.  You could build a big money deck with these and never draw them dead.  Or if your engine is short a few villages you won't be quite as sad.  Not sure if $5 or $6 is more appropriate.

Quote
Livery
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 cards
You may reveal a card from your hand; if it is an...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, +$1
Victory card, +1 Card
Why even bother revealing a card?  Just choose one.  It doesn't seem like there's anything particularly exciting you can do with that extra flexibility.

Quote
Landlord
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. You may discard a Victory card. If you do, +1 Action.

Worth 1 VP per empty Supply pile.
Seems like a cool card.  You could buy them all out, and they're a bit like powered up great halls?  I'm not sure great halls really lend themselves to 3-pile strategies though.

Quote
King's Feast
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Action
Choose 3 times:
+1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1
Too many choices!  I think I'd probably default to lab or village most of the time.

Quote
Heir
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may discard an Estate. If you do: +3 Cards
You may discard a Duchy. If you do: +$3
You may discard a Victory Card. If you do: +1 Action

Clarification: The options are independent and in order, meaning that you discard 0 to 3 cards.
I'm really curious how this plays.  If you have a lot of estates you can sift through them.  And your duchies become gold.

Quote
Counsellor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $5.
Each other player chooses one: he draws a card or trashes a card from his hand.
That's a really strong drawback.  I'd be really careful with it.

Quote
Cordwainer
Cost: $5
Types: Action
+3 Cards
Reveal your hand. If you have exactly one Action card in hand, +1 Action.
This is the smithy version of shanty town.  But it seems much more drastic.  Terminal or non-terminal makes a huge difference, whereas +2 cards or +0 cards on Shanty town is more marginal.

Quote
Auditor
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
All players draw two cards. Each other player reveals his hand. You choose two cards that they have to put on top of their deck.
You could do fun things with this, like topdeck their non-terminals leaving only terminal draw actions.  My major concern is that it would take a really long time so you know fun divided by time and all that.  And no on-play benefit?

Quote
Abandoned Village
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card

When a player gains a victory card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, gain a Silver, putting it into your hand. Return this to your hand at the start of your next turn.
The on-play action is so weak, I'm sure there are better things that could go there.  Make it a victory/reaction!
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2016, 03:37:12 pm »
+1

There was an error in the following card:

Quote
Abandoned Village
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

When a player gains a victory card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, gain a Silver, putting it into your hand. Return this to your hand at the start of your next turn.

(My bad, lost the +2 Actions when formatting the break line.)
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AdrianHealey

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2016, 03:51:54 pm »
+1

+1 for abandoned village, but I can't vote anymore?
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2016, 04:07:06 pm »
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Oops, should be fixed now.

Note that in order to change your vote you have to remove your vote, so you may want to note which cards you were already voting for so you don't have to go through them all again to figure it out.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2016, 04:15:37 pm »
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Done, thanks!
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Gubump

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2016, 07:09:42 pm »
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I, too, changed my vote after it was made known to me that Abandoned Village is supposed to have a +2 Actions along with it. Now it's much better and far less weaksauce.
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2016, 11:21:33 am »
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Abandoned Village is definitely better now. My first hunch is that it is on the weaker side of 4$ villages as more often than not greening happens late in the game when you rarely want Silver. Then again with earlier greening that Explorer effect of a hand-gained Silver can be pretty good. It's perhpas most similar to Mining Village.
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2016, 08:59:56 am »
0

Quote
Cordwainer
Cost: $5
Types: Action
+3 Cards
Reveal your hand. If you have exactly one Action card in hand, +1 Action.
This is the smithy version of shanty town.  But it seems much more drastic.  Terminal or non-terminal makes a huge difference, whereas +2 cards or +0 cards on Shanty town is more marginal.
Marginal? A Necro is worth 1$ whereas a Lost City is worth around 6$.
A Smithy is worth 4$ and a Double Lab is probably worth 7$ or more.

Seems like a significant difference in the case of Cordwainer as well as Shanty Town.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2016, 06:39:08 pm »
+1

Okay, finally getting around to this.

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Vizier
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
You may choose an Action card from your hand. If you do, the player to your left chooses: either you play it twice, or you play it once and every player other than yourself discards down to three cards in hand.

The general idea of this is pretty cool, but the particular implementation doesn't make any sense.  First off, it costs more than Throne Room, but is strictly worse than it.  But okay, let's pretend that's not an issue, we re-price it at $3.  The fact that it anti-stacks I think makes it a lot less interesting, because the decision of what to do with it becomes trivial after the first time you pick discard.  And then when you think about it, if Militia didn't have the +$2, how often would it be better than a random card?  Not too often, so I imagine the discard option is pretty solidly going to be the better option most of the time.  So while I really like the idea of having an opponent choose whether you throne a card or do something else, I don't think the something else really works here, and the price should certainly be less than $4, not more.

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Undertaker
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Choose one: +2 Actions and put any number of cards from your hand on the bottom of your deck; or +2 Cards.

While this is in play, when you would draw from the top of your deck, draw from the bottom instead.

I can't quite decide how I feel about this one, but I think the negative outweighs the positive.  I'm pretty sure I've seen this card elsewhere on the forum, but I don't remember where.  Anyway, everything on this card anti-synergizes so much you just feel silly playing it, is what I think will happen.  If you pick actions, you can save cards for later, but you just gave yourself more actions so that you wouldn't need to save those cards.  If you pick actions and then cards (which feels like a normal thing to do), the saving becomes entirely useless, since you'll be drawing from the bottom of the deck.  So if this top-decked cards instead of bottom-decking them, or even if it just didn't have the while in play part, it might be a cool card, but as it is it just anti-synergizes so much I feel like you'd hardly ever use the bottom-deck option.

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Tribunal
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 action
Discard a card from your hand. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, put the revealed cards that share a type with the discarded card into your hand, trash the rest.

Probably a high-skill card.  I think I like it.  Of course it has a nice interaction with dual-types.  My only real complaint about it is that it feels sort of disjoint (I don't think that's really the right word).  It feels like the effects are sort of unrelated, but held together by this weird commonality.  But anyway I like it overall.

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Slanderer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. If it is an Action card, gain three Action cards costing less than it.

It's like a super Stonemason for actions.  Might be okay, but I think this territory is already covered by Stonemason.

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Shady Dealer
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+$2
Each other player gains a Swamp from the Swamp pile

Swamp
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $0
+1 Buy
You may discard a card. If you do, +1 card

When another player gains a Victory card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, return this card to the supply.

Setup: When Shady Dealer is in the Kingdom or Black Market deck, add the Swamp pile to the kingdom. Have 10 for two players, 20 for three players and 30 for four players.

Okay I honestly just don't see either of these cards being interesting enough to be worth introducing a new supply pile, even if space wasn't a consideration.  I think with the contest set-up, space is even more of a consideration than it would be for a typical expansion, so I'm just not a fan of this.

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Royal Tutor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
You may play an action card from your hand. If you do so, play another action from the supply costing up to the cost of the first played card.

Clarification: The second card remains in the supply.

Hmm, I'm worried that there will be too many combination to consider.  If you have only one action in your hand, then its AP is on the order of BoM, but with n actions, you have to consider O(n^2) possibilities I think.  I think this is actually a big concern, since you'll really want this card in engines where you get all those options.  Other than that I like it, but I just really think it will be too slow to play.

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Pledge
Types: Treasure – Action
Cost: $4
+ 1 Card + 1 Action
You may trash this card. If you do: + 1 Card.

Worth $2

Clarification: When you play this card in your Action phase, it counts as an Action card, when you play it in your Buy phase (this includes the additional Buy phase of Black Market), it counts as a Treasure Card. (That is, this card can played as a plain cantrip OR a oneshot Laboratory OR a Silver.) As long Pledge is not in play (e. g. if it is in the supply, in a player's deck or on a player's hand), it counts as both Treasure and Action card. But once you put it in play, it counts as only one type of card for the rest of your turn. If you Prince or Golem Pledge, it will always count as Action card, because it comes into play in your Action phase. Mint will only trash Pledge, if it was played in your Buy phase.

Okay I already talked about this one.  I don't like the clarification part, is my issue.  But I'll respond to that in a separate post.  I do think the card is reasonably good otherwise, and if an Action-Treasure were to exist, Intrigue would be the place for it.  But I don't think it's worth doing.

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Penal System
Types: Treasure – Victory – Reaction
Cost: $3
Worth $1
Worth 1VP

When a player plays an Attack, you may reveal this. If you do, that player may not play any more Action cards this turn.

It's a creative reaction I suppose (with a thematic name too!) but it just shuts down attacks altogether.  Like, you're just done when you play an attack.  I don't think you buy attacks with Penal System on the board.  I wonder if it'd be interesting if it discarded itself (or set itself aside) when they play an attack, and it just eats up another action (instead of effectively eating up all their actions).  Actually I think that would be cool, but it would have all the same issues that this card has, just on a little smaller scale.

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Parade
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Choose one: Play an action card from your hand twice, or draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

I think I like this a lot.  It is probably bonkers.  My concerns with it are that 1. it might be super strong and 2. It might be hard to track, though both of these I think are debatable and would need testing to determine how significant they really are.  I actually think it'd be okay if this is really strong.  There's a clear self-synergy, but it's not a self-synergy that discourages you from buying other cards, because it just makes other cards stronger.  I think it's fun independently of how strong it is.  Okay, and then it might be hard to track.  I don't actually think it'll be too much harder to track than Throne Room though, because the drawing you just do right when you do it.

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Outskirts
Types: Victory
Cost: $4
Worth 2VP

When you buy this, gain another Outskirts.

Setup: Use 11 copies in 2-player, 15 in 3-4 player, and 18 in 5/6 player games.

Huh, I almost submitted this exact card without the supply rules to the Hinterlands contest last time (and with a different name of course).  Then I had a version that top-decked itself and its copy, then one that top-decked itself and not the copy, then one that got a Duchy instead of a copy of itself so the pile wouldn't go so quickly, with all different combinations of top-decking itself and the other gained card.  Anyway, I like it, but I think it fits a lot better in Hinterlands, and I don't really like the whacky pile sizes.  Port can get away with it because it's obvious, you just pull out all the Ports and play with them all.  I guess it's printed on the card, maybe it's okay.

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Masons
Types: Action – Treasure
Cost: $6
If you play this as an action, +3 Cards
If you play this as a treasure, Worth $2

This is the better Action-Treasure I think.  I like that it's terminal as an action, because it gives you good reason to use the different options in different situations.  It feels very Intrigue-y to me.  I don't like that we didn't get a FAQ for this, although I think it's clearer how to play this without a clarification than how to play Pledge with a clarification.  You just want to say something like, you can only play it as an action when you could normally play actions, and you can only play it as a treasure when you could normally play treasures.

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Livery
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 cards
You may reveal a card from your hand; if it is an...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, +$1
Victory card, +1 Card

Mm, I don't really like it, not sure why.  It is strictly worse than King's Feast interestingly, but I think that's okay.  I think it could just be choose one rather than reveal.  Also there's no iron in the name, what's up with that.

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Landlord
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. You may discard a Victory card. If you do, +1 Action.

Worth 1 VP per empty Supply pile.

Sort of cute.  With the VP it'll probably be very strong very often, like you might not want Duchy kind of strong.  It probably adds a lot to the game.  I feel like I should vote for it for that reason.

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King's Feast
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Action
Choose 3 times:
+1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1

So this is sort of funny, I playtested this exact card (with a different name of course) a long, long time ago.  (I'm assuming by the way that the "Action" at the top is just not supposed to be there, not that it's +1 Action or something like that.)  Anyway, what I remember from it was that it was crazy strong but also that it had a ton of AP.  Now this is back when I had no idea what I was doing, like I don't think I had played any expansions at the time when I played this card, so the crazy strong thing could just be completely wrong.  However, I think even if it's not strong, it actually makes the game less fun to play, because you get exactly what you need whenever you need it.  A card that has too much flexibility takes all the finesse out of engine building.  I actually think BoM sort of has this problem, but probably not to the same extent as this does.

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Heir
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may discard an Estate. If you do: +3 Cards
You may discard a Duchy. If you do: +$3
You may discard a Victory Card. If you do: +1 Action

Clarification: The options are independent and in order, meaning that you discard 0 to 3 cards.

So I know I've seen this card before and I think I know whose it is.  I've always sort of had mixed feelings about it.  It feels a little awkward to me, but I like that it encourages a new type of strategy.

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Counsellor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $5.
Each other player chooses one: he draws a card or trashes a card from his hand.

I think I really like this card.  I like having a choice-based drawback, it's something that makes you feel like hey, why didn't Intrigue do that yet.

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Cordwainer
Cost: $5
Types: Action
+3 Cards
Reveal your hand. If you have exactly one Action card in hand, +1 Action.

I have really strong mixed feelings about this one.  On the one hand, I really like how it's unique and encourages you to play a completely new kind of deck that nothing else in Dominion really does.  What I don't like is that I think it'll feel super bad to draw two or more actions dead with this.  I also worry that it'll discourage you from buying actions a bit, there's a question of whether it does that to an extent that it actually makes games less fun.

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Auditor
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
All players draw two cards. Each other player reveals his hand. You choose two cards that they have to put on top of their deck.

This is a creative idea for a new attack, that introduces way too much AP to be worth doing I think.  You have so many options to think about, even if you know what you're going to pick because it's trivial (like they have two green cards), it's still a lot of drawing and revealing and choosing and it's just slow to resolve.  The interaction with Tribute is pretty nuts.

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Abandoned Village
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

When a player gains a victory card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, gain a Silver, putting it into your hand. Return this to your hand at the start of your next turn.

Seems nice.  It's sort of a lot of text for an effect that only happens a few times.  That's probably the main thing holding it back for me, that it triggers later in the game and you probably don't see the Silver that much.  I think it's too similar to Mining Village too actually, which I wouldn't mind probably if Mining Village weren't in Intrigue also.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2016, 06:46:17 pm »
0

The main issue of Pledge and Masons is that they are too strong respectively too weak, not that it is not specified how they are supposed to interact with Prince/Golem. In the case of Pledge it is explained in a crystal clear way (nor that it wouldn't be clear otherwise that the Action part counts for Prince/Golem). As always with card games, card text or FAQ dominates the general rules.

Maybe I don't understand how the timing of game phases works.  I assumed it was like:

Start of turn
Action phase
Buy phase
Clean-up phase

The fact that you're not confused by the clarification suggests that you think it works like:

Action phase
  • Start of turn
  • Rest of action phase
Buy phase
Clean-up phase

And I actually don't know why I think it works the way I assumed it did, so maybe that's wrong.  Does anyone else know how it works?

So anyway, let's say it works the second way, so that the clarification is consistent with its explanation of Prince.  I still think it's much cleaner if the card is just always both types, but you play it "as an action" whenever you would normally play actions, and you play it "as a treasure" whenever you would normally play treasures.  You still need a more thorough FAQ, but you need that no matter how you do an Action-Treasure.  Either way, I don't think it's compelling enough to be worth all the new rules that would have to come with it.
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2016, 08:39:56 pm »
+1

Quote
Undertaker
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Choose one: +2 Actions and put any number of cards from your hand on the bottom of your deck; or +2 Cards.

While this is in play, when you would draw from the top of your deck, draw from the bottom instead.

I can't quite decide how I feel about this one, but I think the negative outweighs the positive.  I'm pretty sure I've seen this card elsewhere on the forum, but I don't remember where.  Anyway, everything on this card anti-synergizes so much you just feel silly playing it, is what I think will happen.  If you pick actions, you can save cards for later, but you just gave yourself more actions so that you wouldn't need to save those cards.  If you pick actions and then cards (which feels like a normal thing to do), the saving becomes entirely useless, since you'll be drawing from the bottom of the deck.  So if this top-decked cards instead of bottom-decking them, or even if it just didn't have the while in play part, it might be a cool card, but as it is it just anti-synergizes so much I feel like you'd hardly ever use the bottom-deck option.

Hmm, I see the anti-synergy you mention and I wonder how problematic that is.  I didn't notice it before because I focused on the multi-turn synergy.  That is, if you play multiple copies of it on the same turn, then your options become more limited in the same way that playing multiple Courtyards limits their effectiveness.  But the multi-turn synergy is that you can save cards with it across multiple turns until the turn before the shuffle, or until you decide to use this (and probably other, better draw cards) to draw the stuff you saved from the bottom of your deck.  The obvious use case is to put together combo pieces.  But maybe that's too difficult to pull off.

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Landlord
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. You may discard a Victory card. If you do, +1 Action.

Worth 1 VP per empty Supply pile.

Sort of cute.  With the VP it'll probably be very strong very often, like you might not want Duchy kind of strong.  It probably adds a lot to the game.  I feel like I should vote for it for that reason.

What do you mean by this?  Usually it will be worth less than Duchy.  Occasionally it'll be equal and rarely will it be worth more.  I think you'd still want Duchy in the same cases you would want Duchy over Harem or Nobles.

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Counsellor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $5.
Each other player chooses one: he draws a card or trashes a card from his hand.

I think I really like this card.  I like having a choice-based drawback, it's something that makes you feel like hey, why didn't Intrigue do that yet.

Vault and Bishop are already choice-based drawbacks.  You choose which card to discard/trash, or whether to do it at all.

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Cordwainer
Cost: $5
Types: Action
+3 Cards
Reveal your hand. If you have exactly one Action card in hand, +1 Action.

I have really strong mixed feelings about this one.  On the one hand, I really like how it's unique and encourages you to play a completely new kind of deck that nothing else in Dominion really does.  What I don't like is that I think it'll feel super bad to draw two or more actions dead with this.  I also worry that it'll discourage you from buying actions a bit, there's a question of whether it does that to an extent that it actually makes games less fun.

I'm not sure what kind of deck it really encourages.  If you have too many actions, this is just terminal a lot of the time.  If you have too few actions, then this card may as well be terminal because you won't have another action to play anyway.  Even if you strike the right balance (whatever that is), there's almost nothing you can do to make sure you get that +1 action.  Maybe if it did the check before drawing.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2016, 08:54:34 pm »
+1

<Undertaker>
I totally didn't notice that anti-synergy either until Scott pointed it out, but it can easily be fixed by having the on-play effect put cards on top of the deck.

<Cordwainer>
I agree it'd be a lot better if it did the hand reveal before drawing.


My favorites here are Parade and Heir, but Undertaker's probably my #3.

scott_pilgrim

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2016, 09:30:02 pm »
+1

Quote
Landlord
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. You may discard a Victory card. If you do, +1 Action.

Worth 1 VP per empty Supply pile.

Sort of cute.  With the VP it'll probably be very strong very often, like you might not want Duchy kind of strong.  It probably adds a lot to the game.  I feel like I should vote for it for that reason.

What do you mean by this?  Usually it will be worth less than Duchy.  Occasionally it'll be equal and rarely will it be worth more.  I think you'd still want Duchy in the same cases you would want Duchy over Harem or Nobles.

Uh, I think what I meant is that there will be a lot of times when you know it's worth 3 VP, and then it's just better than Duchy.  Maybe that's not really true.  It just seems like there are a lot of games where you know going into it, there's no way this is going to end on Provinces, and then there are also games where even if it does end on Provinces, there are two piles you're pretty sure are going to run out, so you're still pretty sure it's worth 3 VP.

Quote
Counsellor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $5.
Each other player chooses one: he draws a card or trashes a card from his hand.

I think I really like this card.  I like having a choice-based drawback, it's something that makes you feel like hey, why didn't Intrigue do that yet.

Vault and Bishop are already choice-based drawbacks.  You choose which card to discard/trash, or whether to do it at all.

Well that's sort of true.  But that's not an Intrigue-style choice.  If a card said "Trash a card from your hand", would you say that that fits into Intrigue, because it offers you a choice of what card to trash?  Probably not.  But if a card said "Choose one: +1 card, or trash a card from your hand", that sounds like Intrigue.  So, Bishop is to that first thing as Counselor is to that second thing.

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Cordwainer
Cost: $5
Types: Action
+3 Cards
Reveal your hand. If you have exactly one Action card in hand, +1 Action.

I have really strong mixed feelings about this one.  On the one hand, I really like how it's unique and encourages you to play a completely new kind of deck that nothing else in Dominion really does.  What I don't like is that I think it'll feel super bad to draw two or more actions dead with this.  I also worry that it'll discourage you from buying actions a bit, there's a question of whether it does that to an extent that it actually makes games less fun.

I'm not sure what kind of deck it really encourages.  If you have too many actions, this is just terminal a lot of the time.  If you have too few actions, then this card may as well be terminal because you won't have another action to play anyway.  Even if you strike the right balance (whatever that is), there's almost nothing you can do to make sure you get that +1 action.  Maybe if it did the check before drawing.

You might be right.  I don't think the positives outweigh the negatives for me anyway, so I don't think I'll be voting for it.  I do feel like it's unique enough that it could give you some new tricks that other cards don't, but I don't have any specific examples.  You're probably right that it would work a lot better if the revealing happened first.
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2016, 11:18:16 pm »
0

<Undertaker>
I totally didn't notice that anti-synergy either until Scott pointed it out, but it can easily be fixed by having the on-play effect put cards on top of the deck.

That removes the multi-turn synergy though.  I don't know which would be better.

Quote
Counsellor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $5.
Each other player chooses one: he draws a card or trashes a card from his hand.

I think I really like this card.  I like having a choice-based drawback, it's something that makes you feel like hey, why didn't Intrigue do that yet.

Vault and Bishop are already choice-based drawbacks.  You choose which card to discard/trash, or whether to do it at all.

Well that's sort of true.  But that's not an Intrigue-style choice.  If a card said "Trash a card from your hand", would you say that that fits into Intrigue, because it offers you a choice of what card to trash?  Probably not.  But if a card said "Choose one: +1 card, or trash a card from your hand", that sounds like Intrigue.  So, Bishop is to that first thing as Counselor is to that second thing.

Fair enough.  I called out Cordwainer for not fitting an Intrigue theme, but I think there were several others that I didn't mention where the closest tie to Intrigue was an implied choice.  Like... Tribunal, where you just choose a card from your hand.  Or Slanderer, where you just trash a card from your hand.  Or Royal Tutor, where you are choosing a card in the Supply.  So I was in the mindset that a choice is a a choice, but maybe it's worth focusing more on the Intrigue-style choices.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 11:19:37 pm by eHalcyon »
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Gubump

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue
« Reply #31 on: February 29, 2016, 12:33:41 am »
0

Quote
Vizier
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
You may choose an Action card from your hand. If you do, the player to your left chooses: either you play it twice, or you play it once and every player other than yourself discards down to three cards in hand.

Like many people have said, this is strictly worse than Throne Room, and it becomes a Ruined Village-one of the worst cards in the game, mind you-as soon as your opponent chooses the attack.

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Undertaker
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Choose one: +2 Actions and put any number of cards from your hand on the bottom of your deck; or +2 Cards.

While this is in play, when you would draw from the top of your deck, draw from the bottom instead.

Again, as other people have said, this anti-synergizes possibly more than any other card. I would make the on-play effect topdeck your cards instead. Then it would be pretty interesting, and, IMO, still worth $2.

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Tribunal
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 action
Discard a card from your hand. Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck, put the revealed cards that share a type with the discarded card into your hand, trash the rest.

Kind of like Wishing Well, but better. On the other hand, it also has blind trashing, which is the entire reason that Lookout is my #1 most hated card of all time.

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Slanderer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Trash a card from your hand. If it is an Action card, gain three Action cards costing less than it.

Too similar to Stonemason to be interesting. It's also kind of underpowered, IMO; Stonemason costs half as much and is 2/3 as strong, and doesn't have the drawback that the trashed and gained cards have to be Actions, and is still such a weak $2 that it has one of the best overpay effects in the game. In all, I think this should probably cost the same as Stonemason.

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Shady Dealer
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $5
+1 Card
+$2
Each other player gains a Swamp from the Swamp pile

Swamp
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $0
+1 Buy
You may discard a card. If you do, +1 card

When another player gains a Victory card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, return this card to the supply.

Setup: When Shady Dealer is in the Kingdom or Black Market deck, add the Swamp pile to the kingdom. Have 10 for two players, 20 for three players and 30 for four players.

Shady Dealer: Why +1 Card and +$2? It seems like you pulled two random bonuses out of a hat to make the non-attack portion of the card, which isn't a good thing.

Swamp: I think we have enough garbage cards in this game.

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Royal Tutor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
You may play an action card from your hand. If you do so, play another action from the supply costing up to the cost of the first played card.

Clarification: The second card remains in the supply.

Finally, we get to a good card! This kind of reminds me of the outtake Kitchen (plays an Action, remodels it, and plays the gained Action). Unfortunately, I don't know why that was removed from the game. I like this better, though, for two reasons: 1. It doesn't use Potions, 2. It isn't nearly as OP, and has a bit less AP. This also makes me think of a mix between BoM and TR.

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Pledge
Types: Treasure – Action
Cost: $4
+ 1 Card + 1 Action
You may trash this card. If you do: + 1 Card.

Worth $2

Clarification: When you play this card in your Action phase, it counts as an Action card, when you play it in your Buy phase (this includes the additional Buy phase of Black Market), it counts as a Treasure Card. (That is, this card can played as a plain cantrip OR a oneshot Laboratory OR a Silver.) As long Pledge is not in play (e. g. if it is in the supply, in a player's deck or on a player's hand), it counts as both Treasure and Action card. But once you put it in play, it counts as only one type of card for the rest of your turn. If you Prince or Golem Pledge, it will always count as Action card, because it comes into play in your Action phase. Mint will only trash Pledge, if it was played in your Buy phase.

The only problem is what happens if Princed. It has yet to be determined whether the turn goes one of 2 ways:

1) Start of Turn > Action Phase > Buy Phase > Cleanup

OR

2) (Action Phase = Start of Turn > Rest of Action Phase) > Buy Phase > Cleanup

In other words, is the start of your turn during or before your Action phase?

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Penal System
Types: Treasure – Victory – Reaction
Cost: $3
Worth $1
Worth 1VP

When a player plays an Attack, you may reveal this. If you do, that player may not play any more Action cards this turn.

AKA "Attack Contraband." Nobody would buy any attack cards with this in the set. It also relies on having Attack cards to be worth its cost; an outtake was a Treasure/Victory worth 1VP and $1 that also gave a +Buy, and was too weak.

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Parade
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Choose one: Play an action card from your hand twice, or draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

This is another good one. I only worry that it might be too strong a self-synergy, but I don't think it'll be as strong as Royal Carriage, my favorite TR variant.

Quote
Outskirts
Types: Victory
Cost: $4
Worth 2VP

When you buy this, gain another Outskirts.

Setup: Use 11 copies in 2-player, 15 in 3-4 player, and 18 in 5/6 player games.

I don't really have anything to say about this one. It makes me think of a mix between Tunnels and Port.

Quote
Masons
Types: Action – Treasure
Cost: $6
If you play this as an action, +3 Cards
If you play this as a treasure, Worth $2

I know somebody else made a card that was basically this as a Reaction, with the reaction being the $2, and it being triggered at the start of your buy phase. I think that one is better, for 2 reasons: 1. It costs $5, which I think is a better price for a Smithy/Silver, and 2. I don't think the rules complications of making a card that is both a Treasure and an Action is worth a card that is just a flat-out combination between two existing cards.

Quote
Livery
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+2 cards
You may reveal a card from your hand; if it is an...
Action card, +1 Action
Treasure card, +$1
Victory card, +1 Card

It is kind of interesting, but I don't think it's different enough from Laboratory and Tribute to be interesting.

Quote
Landlord
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. You may discard a Victory card. If you do, +1 Action.

Worth 1 VP per empty Supply pile.

I like the self-synergy with it being a Victory card itself. I don't think it's different enough from Lab to be interesting, though, and it also has, I think, the lowest realistic cap of any variable-value Victory in the game, yet is one of the hardest cards to reach that gap. Yet another strike against it is that it is, again, I think, the only Victory card that, when it gets more valuable, it gets more valuable for everybody.

Quote
King's Feast
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Action
Choose 3 times:
+1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1

Insanely strong. Probably too strong. Unless it actually means choose three, in which case it's strictly worse than Market. If you can choose the same thing multiple times, however, these are the combinations:

1: +3 Cards
2: +3 Actions
3: +3 Buys
4: +$3
5:+2 Cards +1 Action
6: +2 Cards +1 Buy
7: +2 Cards +$1
8: +1 Card +2 Actions
9: +1 Card +2 Buys
10: +1 Card +$2
11: +1 Card +1 Action +1 Buy
12: +1 Card +1 Action +$1
13: +1 Card +1 Buy +$1
14: +1 Action +1 Buy +$1
15: +2 Actions +1 Buy
16: +2 Actions +$1
17: +1 Action +2 Buys
18: +2 Buys +$1
19: +1 Action +$2
20: +1 Buy +$2

And I think that 20 different combinations is a bit much for a $6-cost card, don't you agree? Count is the most versatile card in the game with its...less than half as many options. Yeah...it would also create a massive amount of AP every time it's played. The especially OP part is that one of its combos, +2 Cards, +1 Action, is the exact effect of a card costing just $1 less. This would probably be too strong at $8. Thanks to scott_pilgrim for pointing out the last 6 that I missed.

Quote
Heir
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may discard an Estate. If you do: +3 Cards
You may discard a Duchy. If you do: +$3
You may discard a Victory Card. If you do: +1 Action

Clarification: The options are independent and in order, meaning that you discard 0 to 3 cards.

I've also seen this one before. It's kind of silly that just having two Estates in your hand can yield double-lab.

Quote
Counsellor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $5.
Each other player chooses one: he draws a card or trashes a card from his hand.

I'm kind of surprised, honestly, that nobody has created a card where other players choose bonuses for themselves as a drawback. This is a cool one, but I think that just making each other player draw a card is enough of a drawback; it doesn't need a drawback harsher than Council Room when its effect isn't as strong as Council Room's anyway.

Quote
Cordwainer
Cost: $5
Types: Action
+3 Cards
Reveal your hand. If you have exactly one Action card in hand, +1 Action.

This is another cool one. Unfortunately, it kind of anti-synergizes with itself because the +3 Cards can easily push you to having 2 or more Actions. Still voting for it, though.

Quote
Auditor
Types: Action – Attack
Cost: $3
All players draw two cards. Each other player reveals his hand. You choose two cards that they have to put on top of their deck.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too strong. This definitely needs to be a $6 at least.

Quote
Abandoned Village
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

When a player gains a victory card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, gain a Silver, putting it into your hand. Return this to your hand at the start of your next turn.

Unfortunately, this card's reaction doesn't really fit with its trigger; Victory cards are usually gained late-game, where you don't want Silvers. It's still pretty creative, though, and I'm still voting for it.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 06:43:34 pm by Gubump »
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue
« Reply #32 on: February 29, 2016, 01:32:30 am »
0

Quote
King's Feast
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Action
Choose 3 times:
+1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +$1

Insanely strong. Probably too strong. Unless it actually means choose three, in which case it's strictly worse than Market. If you can choose the same thing multiple times, however, these are the combinations:

1: +3 Cards
2: +3 Actions
3: +3 Buys
4: +$3
5:+2 Cards +1 Action
6: +2 Cards +1 Buy
7: +2 Cards +$1
8: +1 Card +2 Actions
9: +1 Card +2 Buys
10: +1 Card +$2
11: +1 Card +1 Action +1 Buy
12: +1 Card +1 Action +$1
13: +1 Card +1 Buy +$1
14: +1 Action +1 Buy +$1

And I think that 14 different combinations is a bit much for a $6-cost card, don't you agree? Count is the most versatile card in the game with its...almost half as many options. Yeah...it would also create a massive amount of AP every time it's played. The especially OP part is that one of its combos, +2 Cards, +1 Action, is the exact effect of a card costing just $1 less. This would probably be too strong at $8.

Actually, there's more than 14; you stopped listing off all the possibilities without +cards.  You would have:

15: +2 Actions, +$1
16: +2 Actions, +1 Buy
17: +1 Action, +$2
18: +1 Action, +1 Buy
19: +$2, +1 Buy
20: +$1, +2 Buys

And I think this should be right, since we should have 1+3+6+10=20 total combinations.  Anyway, I don't actually think the number of combinations speaks directly to power level.  You can't just say that because there are 20 options, it must be strong.  If a card said "Gain any number of Coppers from 0 to 19", well that would be crazy in Gardens games, but you know what I mean.  You'd never pick like 13 Coppers because you'd pretty much always prefer 19 or else closer to 0 or 1.  I think a few of the options are overshadowed by others, like +3 buys is pretty edge-casey.

But I agree with the conclusion.  The flexibility makes it pretty nuts and even if it weren't strong, I think being able to get exactly what you want when you want it makes the game less fun.
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #33 on: February 29, 2016, 02:25:09 am »
0

The main issue of Pledge and Masons is that they are too strong respectively too weak, not that it is not specified how they are supposed to interact with Prince/Golem. In the case of Pledge it is explained in a crystal clear way (nor that it wouldn't be clear otherwise that the Action part counts for Prince/Golem). As always with card games, card text or FAQ dominates the general rules.

Maybe I don't understand how the timing of game phases works.  I assumed it was like:

Start of turn
Action phase
Buy phase
Clean-up phase

The fact that you're not confused by the clarification suggests that you think it works like:

Action phase
  • Start of turn
  • Rest of action phase
Buy phase
Clean-up phase

And I actually don't know why I think it works the way I assumed it did, so maybe that's wrong.  Does anyone else know how it works?

So anyway, let's say it works the second way, so that the clarification is consistent with its explanation of Prince.  I still think it's much cleaner if the card is just always both types, but you play it "as an action" whenever you would normally play actions, and you play it "as a treasure" whenever you would normally play treasures.  You still need a more thorough FAQ, but you need that no matter how you do an Action-Treasure.  Either way, I don't think it's compelling enough to be worth all the new rules that would have to come with it.
You are totally right about the structure and I am not confused about the start of the turn being different from the action phase.
But Prince clearly talks about setting aside an Action card and playing that very Action card at the start of each turn so it should be obvious without any FAQs and rule-lawyering that only the Action part of Action-Treasures counts in the case of Prince or Golem. In addition to that the FAQ of Pledge clarified that.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 02:26:57 am by tristan »
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AdrianHealey

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #34 on: February 29, 2016, 06:07:35 am »
0

What's the proper procedure on 'defending' your own card from (pretty valid) comments? After voting? Never? Still anonymous? :)
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #35 on: February 29, 2016, 12:48:00 pm »
0

What's the proper procedure on 'defending' your own card from (pretty valid) comments? After voting? Never? Still anonymous? :)

Stay anonymous until after voting. Maybe make an effort to defend not just your own card. :P

@Gubump on Landlord, not sure what you mean by variable-cost here, but the VP cap from empty supply piles is 2.5 times higher than the cap from Fairgrounds on most boards.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #36 on: February 29, 2016, 06:37:48 pm »
0

What's the proper procedure on 'defending' your own card from (pretty valid) comments? After voting? Never? Still anonymous? :)

Stay anonymous until after voting. Maybe make an effort to defend not just your own card. :P

@Gubump on Landlord, not sure what you mean by variable-cost here, but the VP cap from empty supply piles is 2.5 times higher than the cap from Fairgrounds on most boards.

1. I meant variable-value, I'll fix that when I'm done posting this reply.

2. Um, the smallest possible cap on Fairgrounds is, let's see: 10 Kingdom Piles = 4, and 6 base card piles = 6. The VP cap from empty Supply piles is technically 16, but the chances of running out every Supply pile in a single turn is ridiculously slim. 99.999999% of the time Landlord'll be worth 4 or less VP. I guess Landlord doesn't really have a cap of 3VP, but that's its highest realistic value.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 11:29:11 pm by Gubump »
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #37 on: February 29, 2016, 07:28:36 pm »
0

What's the proper procedure on 'defending' your own card from (pretty valid) comments? After voting? Never? Still anonymous? :)

Stay anonymous until after voting. Maybe make an effort to defend not just your own card. :P

@Gubump on Landlord, not sure what you mean by variable-cost here, but the VP cap from empty supply piles is 2.5 times higher than the cap from Fairgrounds on most boards.
99.999999% of the time it'll be worth 4 or less VP.
That's obvious nonsense. It doesn't happen very often but you frequently score 6 VPs with Fairgrounds.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #38 on: February 29, 2016, 07:32:38 pm »
0

What's the proper procedure on 'defending' your own card from (pretty valid) comments? After voting? Never? Still anonymous? :)

Stay anonymous until after voting. Maybe make an effort to defend not just your own card. :P

@Gubump on Landlord, not sure what you mean by variable-cost here, but the VP cap from empty supply piles is 2.5 times higher than the cap from Fairgrounds on most boards.
99.999999% of the time it'll be worth 4 or less VP.
That's obvious nonsense. It doesn't happen very often but you frequently score 6 VPs with Fairgrounds.
Pretty sure 99.9999999% is hyperbole. It is not very often but it some times it happens that you play 8 highways and have a million buys. I am looking at a kingdom of kc, cost reducer, +buy, and draw.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #39 on: February 29, 2016, 09:32:02 pm »
0

2. Um, the smallest possible cap on Fairgrounds is, let's see: 10 Kingdom Piles = 4, and 6 base card piles = 6. The VP cap from empty Supply piles is technically 16, but the chances of running out every Supply pile in a single turn is ridiculously slim. 99.999999% of the time it'll be worth 4 or less VP. I guess Landlord doesn't really have a cap of 3VP, but that's its highest realistic value.

Sure it's unlikely, but unlikelihood doesn't matter when you're talking about the cap.

Even if the cap really was tiny, I don't think it's really a problem.  You can just think of it as a small step above fixed value VP cards.
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Gubump

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #40 on: February 29, 2016, 11:28:41 pm »
0

What's the proper procedure on 'defending' your own card from (pretty valid) comments? After voting? Never? Still anonymous? :)

Stay anonymous until after voting. Maybe make an effort to defend not just your own card. :P

@Gubump on Landlord, not sure what you mean by variable-cost here, but the VP cap from empty supply piles is 2.5 times higher than the cap from Fairgrounds on most boards.
99.999999% of the time it'll be worth 4 or less VP.
That's obvious nonsense. It doesn't happen very often but you frequently score 6 VPs with Fairgrounds.

And Fairgrounds isn't the card I'm talking about.
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2016, 07:17:33 am »
0

What's the proper procedure on 'defending' your own card from (pretty valid) comments? After voting? Never? Still anonymous? :)

Stay anonymous until after voting. Maybe make an effort to defend not just your own card. :P

@Gubump on Landlord, not sure what you mean by variable-cost here, but the VP cap from empty supply piles is 2.5 times higher than the cap from Fairgrounds on most boards.
99.999999% of the time it'll be worth 4 or less VP.
That's obvious nonsense. It doesn't happen very often but you frequently score 6 VPs with Fairgrounds.

And Fairgrounds isn't the card I'm talking about.
My misktake. 99.999999% is still hyperbole as I haven't played millions of Dominion games yet I still frequently encounter 4 pile endings and faintly remember one or two 5 pile endings.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2016, 01:30:08 pm »
0

Preliminary Results:

Landlord - 11
Heir - 10
Royal Tutor - 9
Counsellor - 8
Abandoned Village - 7
Parade - 7

Cordwainer - 6
Undertaker - 6
Masons - 5
Livery - 4
Slanderer - 4
King's Feast - 3
Pledge - 3
Auditor - 2
Outskirts - 2
Penal System - 2
Shady Dealer - 2
Tribunal - 1
Vizier - 1
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Voting!)
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2016, 01:33:02 pm »
0

Note that there are six finalists, due to a tie for fifth in the preliminary round.

Quote
Abandoned Village
Types: Action – Reaction
Cost: $4
+1 Card
+2 Actions

When a player gains a victory card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, gain a Silver, putting it into your hand. Return this to your hand at the start of your next turn.

Quote
Counsellor
Types: Action
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $5.
Each other player chooses one: he draws a card or trashes a card from his hand.

Quote
Heir
Types: Action
Cost: $4
You may discard an Estate. If you do: +3 Cards
You may discard a Duchy. If you do: +$3
You may discard a Victory Card. If you do: +1 Action

Clarification: The options are independent and in order, meaning that you discard 0 to 3 cards.

Quote
Landlord
Types: Action – Victory
Cost: $5
+2 Cards. You may discard a Victory card. If you do, +1 Action.

Worth 1 VP per empty Supply pile.

Quote
Parade
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Choose one: Play an action card from your hand twice, or draw until you have 6 cards in hand.

Quote
Royal Tutor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
You may play an action card from your hand. If you do so, play another action from the supply costing up to the cost of the first played card.

Clarification: The second card remains in the supply.

Submit your votes to me via this forum's messaging system. To vote, give each card a score from 0 to 10. (It is recommended, but not required, that you give at least one card a 0 and at least one card a 10, to maximize your voting input.) The winner will be the card with the highest sum. Feel free to discuss the cards (but not your scores) in this thread.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Finalists!)
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2016, 11:01:42 am »
0

I created Penal System.
I was intentionally trying to create a counter-attack reaction that wouldn't make attacks worthless, but I obviously made the punishment too harsh.
I was thinking it wouldn't overly punish attacks because you could still have one per turn that wouldn't effect you as long as you played it last, but I didn't really consider that if that was the case Penal System probably isn't worth buying on that board.

Maybe just making the restriction on playing further attacks so it shuts down Minion, Scrying Pool, Urchin, and somewhat drawing attacks might have been better.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Finalists!)
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2016, 11:05:30 am »
0

King's Feast is mine. And I agree with the 'damn, this card is flexible', but I am ok with that. It might need to be a little pricier (7? 8?) or have a penalty or restriction on gaining it (think grand market).

Anyone have any suggestions on improving it?
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Finalists!)
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2016, 01:11:10 pm »
0

Masons was mine.  People seem to like my ideas so far, but I've yet to get the price right once.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Finalists!)
« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2016, 05:17:35 pm »
0

Masons was mine.  People seem to like my ideas so far, but I've yet to get the price right once.

I created Pledge. My first idea was a Silver+, which could be played as a cantrip, which trashes itself, when playing as Action card. So you could get rid of the Silver, when better cards are available.
But there was a big problem in pricing this card. Plegde was strictly better than Silver (just consider Noble Brigand and Ironworks), and so it required to cost more than Silver. But it still was not worth $4.

So I started with the price of $3, but added the restriction, that you cannot buy Pledge, as long you have other Treasury Cards than Copper in play. This was too weird and people were still buying two or three Pledges in their first five turns.

Then I changed the cost to $4, made the trashing optional and added a small benefit, if you trash it, making the card similar to Mining Village.

Obviously there is a huge lack of clarity how a mixed Action/Treasury card behaves in different situations (e. g. played by Prince). So this was an experiment and although it got only two votes, I am happy that the community has found an opinion regarding this type of card. Thank you a lot!
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Finalists!)
« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2016, 05:27:24 pm »
0

Last day for voting!
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Finalists!)
« Reply #49 on: March 08, 2016, 11:04:17 am »
+4

Results:

Royal Tutor (Beyond Awesome) - 55
Counsellor (RobertJ) - 47
Landlord (?) - 43
Parade (scott_pilgrim) - 43
Heir (Asper) - 37
Abandoned Village (Graystripe77) - 23

Congrats, Beyond Awesome!
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Finalists!)
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2016, 01:57:52 am »
0

King's Feast is mine. And I agree with the 'damn, this card is flexible', but I am ok with that. It might need to be a little pricier (7? 8?) or have a penalty or restriction on gaining it (think grand market).

Anyone have any suggestions on improving it?
I don't think that it is too expensive. On average the best option is Lab and while Lab is often bought for 6$ I don't think that the extra flexibility is worth enough to make this cost 7$.
But then I could be wrong. A simple way to increase the price and make the card rarer is of course via Potion, i.e. 4P.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Results!)
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2016, 04:47:06 am »
0

That would be a good suggestion, but I am in the 'not a huge fan of P' camp. :) Currently, I am contemplating a 'When this is in play, you can't gain or play another one from your hand'-clause.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Results!)
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2016, 02:41:06 am »
0

That would be a good suggestion, but I am in the 'not a huge fan of P' camp. :) Currently, I am contemplating a 'When this is in play, you can't gain or play another one from your hand'-clause.
This is a good idea as it prevents the card from being a main piece in your engine. Its only liability is after all its hyperflexibility.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Results!)
« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2016, 04:21:37 am »
0

That would be a good suggestion, but I am in the 'not a huge fan of P' camp. :) Currently, I am contemplating a 'When this is in play, you can't gain or play another one from your hand'-clause.
This is a good idea as it prevents the card from being a main piece in your engine. Its only liability is after all its hyperflexibility.

Thank you for the endorsement of the idea! :) And than I can give it a name that sort of indicates 'uniqueness'. Pope, king, whatever; something.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 4: Intrigue (Results!)
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2016, 05:31:48 pm »
0

Some notes on other versions of BoM that were tried:

I tried having it gain the card. It just empties piles so fast. Multiple versions tried this though.

I tried having it gain a card, then return that card to the supply. People just endlessly forgot to return the card. Maybe something could have reminded them well enough; I did not have the technology at the time.

I tried having it play a card without moving it. For all of your Band of Misfits solutions, consider duration cards and Feast. Here I was not satisfied with how the weird cases resolved.

Relevant for Royal Tutor.  Dunno if any changes should be made... maybe even just explicitly prohibiting it from playing a Duration from the Supply?
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