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Hearthstone Noob
« on: February 08, 2016, 01:14:53 am »
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So I just got through the introductory quest in Hearthstone. It was, as it says, very easy to learn, but what getting better and having fun tips do you have for the Hearthstone noob?
Basically it seems almost the same in gameplay and mechanics as MTG (which I've only played like 3 games of). What are the important differences?

BTW, my username is TheLibrarian (because LibraryAdventurer wouldn't fit).

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2016, 02:02:16 am »
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The important differences are that there is way more emphasis on tempo and less emphasis on card interactions. Also, minions are better than creatures because they also function as removal, big minions function as (slow) mass removal, and HS doesn't have any good removal spells.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2016, 08:51:15 am »
+2

Tempo is the single most important thing in Hearthstone, meaning that with most decks, all beginner's decks in particular, you should value board control over everything else. As long as you cannot kill your opponent in one turn (or your hero doesn't die next turn) heroes' hitpoints are secondary. Since on your own turns you can attack your opponent's hero and minions almost unhamperedly (spells cannot be cast from hand like instants in MTG) you should always seek to make the best possible "trade", i.e. you attack enemy minions with your own so that yours survive with as much health as possible while killing off their minions. If you can use spells or weapons to do so, use those primarily as your minions are more valuable. Your first weeks or months of playing HS may be very minion-centered (as most cards are minions) so it's important you learn to trade minions optimally. 90 per cent of arena games consist of just that.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2016, 09:01:51 am »
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One of the big things about higher level play is knowing when not to play cards.  If you already have three minions on the board to threaten your opponent, you usually don't need to drop more down, particularly if you're facing a class with a good board clear (Flamestrike, Blizzard, Consecrate, sometimes Twisting Nether).  If you hold back, you can plop those minions down after they use the clear, which is going to use up most of their mana from their turn anyway.  If you had just thrown down everything, you would have neither a board nor a hand.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2016, 09:23:43 am »
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One of the big things about higher level play is knowing when not to play cards.  If you already have three minions on the board to threaten your opponent, you usually don't need to drop more down, particularly if you're facing a class with a good board clear (Flamestrike, Blizzard, Consecrate, sometimes Twisting Nether).  If you hold back, you can plop those minions down after they use the clear, which is going to use up most of their mana from their turn anyway.  If you had just thrown down everything, you would have neither a board nor a hand.

That's good advice, but it's way less important than it is in Magic. In Hearthstone, it is more often the case that you just need the tempo boost from playing your cards. This is especially the case with spells; in Magic, you can hold on to your Doom Blade until your opponent has a really good target for it, but in Hearthstone, spending a turn not doing anything can be way more detrimental than not getting good value out of your removal. This is, again, because Hearthstone doesn't have any good board clears.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 09:24:47 am by Awaclus »
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2016, 09:41:08 am »
+1

One of the big things about higher level play is knowing when not to play cards.  If you already have three minions on the board to threaten your opponent, you usually don't need to drop more down, particularly if you're facing a class with a good board clear (Flamestrike, Blizzard, Consecrate, sometimes Twisting Nether).  If you hold back, you can plop those minions down after they use the clear, which is going to use up most of their mana from their turn anyway.  If you had just thrown down everything, you would have neither a board nor a hand.

That's good advice, but it's way less important than it is in Magic. In Hearthstone, it is more often the case that you just need the tempo boost from playing your cards. This is especially the case with spells; in Magic, you can hold on to your Doom Blade until your opponent has a really good target for it, but in Hearthstone, spending a turn not doing anything can be way more detrimental than not getting good value out of your removal. This is, again, because Hearthstone doesn't have any good board clears.
It's also worth mentioning that the value of playing around board clears also varies with game mode.  In Arena you should play around Common board clears like FS and Consecrate most of the time, particularly at high wins.  In Constructed you need to get a sense for what decks are around and what you're playing against so you can work out whether the deck you're facing will have the card you're worried about.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2016, 10:33:18 pm »
0

thanks for the tips

I'm still working on unlocking the different classes, so I haven't played any pvp yet.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2016, 11:40:41 pm »
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The important differences are that there is way more emphasis on tempo and less emphasis on card interactions. Also, minions are better than creatures because they also function as removal, big minions function as (slow) mass removal, and HS doesn't have any good removal spells.

This change is basically the main reason I like Hearthstone better than MTG actually - for all the emphasis on "back-to-basics" that WoTC puts out, the game isn't really primarily about the creatures and doing cool things with them. Here it seems to be, and the lack of good removal spells lets people play out their decks without feeling the bad feeling that comes from a spell being countered (yeah, I know the secret, but that's easier to play around) or just killed (Priest seems to be one of the more MTG-style classes, which is probably why I dislike it)
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2016, 02:55:49 am »
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thanks for the tips

I'm still working on unlocking the different classes, so I haven't played any pvp yet.

It's very possible to start playing ranked straight away, with the basic decks if you have to.  The ladder is set up so that you're almost guaranteed to play other new players at first, and you gain experience for playing cards whether you win or lose.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2016, 08:02:48 am »
+1

thanks for the tips

I'm still working on unlocking the different classes, so I haven't played any pvp yet.

It's very possible to start playing ranked straight away, with the basic decks if you have to.  The ladder is set up so that you're almost guaranteed to play other new players at first, and you gain experience for playing cards whether you win or lose.

Nowadays when I had friends of mine introduced to Hearthstone, I noticed a considerable amount of beginner players having good cards already like Knife Juggler, Implosion and Naxxramas cards, even on the lowest rank! You'd have to play exceptionally well to be able to deal with that card quality using only basic cards. But maybe this trend is only on the European server, or it was a bad coincidence.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2016, 11:40:12 am »
+1

thanks for the tips

I'm still working on unlocking the different classes, so I haven't played any pvp yet.

It's very possible to start playing ranked straight away, with the basic decks if you have to.  The ladder is set up so that you're almost guaranteed to play other new players at first, and you gain experience for playing cards whether you win or lose.

Nowadays when I had friends of mine introduced to Hearthstone, I noticed a considerable amount of beginner players having good cards already like Knife Juggler, Implosion and Naxxramas cards, even on the lowest rank! You'd have to play exceptionally well to be able to deal with that card quality using only basic cards. But maybe this trend is only on the European server, or it was a bad coincidence.

The other day I was bored and played a game on Europe (not my server) with a basic deck, and at rank 25 my opponent played coin turn 5 golden Emperor turn 6 golden Dr. Boom.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2016, 11:43:39 am »
0

thanks for the tips

I'm still working on unlocking the different classes, so I haven't played any pvp yet.

It's very possible to start playing ranked straight away, with the basic decks if you have to.  The ladder is set up so that you're almost guaranteed to play other new players at first, and you gain experience for playing cards whether you win or lose.

Nowadays when I had friends of mine introduced to Hearthstone, I noticed a considerable amount of beginner players having good cards already like Knife Juggler, Implosion and Naxxramas cards, even on the lowest rank! You'd have to play exceptionally well to be able to deal with that card quality using only basic cards. But maybe this trend is only on the European server, or it was a bad coincidence.

If you have direct experience then I'll defer to that.  I was only going on the fact that you can't reverse into rank 25 (except by staying away for a few months) and that I believe that there is a literal separate pool for new players in the matchmaking algorithm.  It's possible that is only in casual though, or that the system has changed from when I saw it explained.

PPE: Yikes.
The other day I was bored and played a game on Europe (not my server) with a basic deck, and at rank 25 my opponent played coin turn 5 golden Emperor turn 6 golden Dr. Boom.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2016, 11:50:21 am »
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There are probably players who haven't played Ranked in a while on the low ranks. They'll obviously get higher eventually, but if there are a lot of other such players on the low ranks, it takes much longer, especially since there's RNG involved and then there can be new returning veterans. For example, I can consistently get to rank 5 or higher if I try, but I've been playing Arena or nothing at all lately so I'm somewhere around rank 20 at the moment too.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2016, 02:50:04 pm »
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BTW, my username is TheLibrarian (because LibraryAdventurer wouldn't fit).

Incidentally, if you want people to add you then they need your full battletag (including the four numbers after your name).
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2016, 07:43:04 pm »
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okay, I didn't notice them until you pointed them out.

It's TheLibrarian 1285

finished unlocking the classes now.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2016, 10:34:38 pm »
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Won 3 games with my first arena deck (paladin). kind of. Really I won 2, because the first game I played the opponent did absolutely nothing the whole time so it wasn't much of a game.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2016, 11:26:23 pm »
+1

Won 3 games with my first arena deck (paladin). kind of. Really I won 2, because the first game I played the opponent did absolutely nothing the whole time so it wasn't much of a game.

Congratulations on your first 2 arena victories :) So are you enjoying the game?
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2016, 11:30:24 pm »
+1

yup  it's fun

ugh. went 0-3 with my second arena deck because I got shafted by the cards it gave me.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 01:51:25 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2016, 02:11:59 am »
+1

It's probably a good idea to not play Arena until you've played enough Constructed to get an idea about how the strategy works, what cards to expect, etc. Also, use HearthArena when you do think that you're ready. It's expensive to go on Arena unless you average more than 3 wins.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2016, 11:59:03 am »
+1

yup  it's fun

ugh. went 0-3 with my second arena deck because I got shafted by the cards it gave me.

It's difficult to get such a bad draft that you go 0-3. Almost any deck has the potential to go 3-5 wins if played right/drafted correctly. With practice you'll be able to get more wins in arena even with poor decks. Also you get better at drafting. You're not drafting for syngery mots of the time. I used to draft priests and avoid spiteful smith because it was a weapon card. But it's actually a decent pick, even in priest. Also knowing which classes are good is a HUGE factor in arena. Rogue, Paladin, Mage, Druid.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2016, 12:39:26 pm »
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Also knowing which classes are good is a HUGE factor in arena. Rogue, Paladin, Mage, Druid.

Yeah, pretty much in that order, too (best to worst). And you should never play Priest or Hunter, and Warlock and Shaman are kind of weak too.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2016, 06:17:19 pm »
+1

Also knowing which classes are good is a HUGE factor in arena. Rogue, Paladin, Mage, Druid.

Yeah, pretty much in that order, too (best to worst). And you should never play Priest or Hunter, and Warlock and Shaman are kind of weak too.

Well, you CAN play any class in arena and get at least 4-5 wins even with the weak ones. You just need a lot of experience to be successful with those. "Weak" arena classes are characterized by their "zero-tempo" hero powers (among other things), i.e. their powers do not change the current board state.
Priest can be an exception with the right minions already in play.
Shaman's hero power is just terrible and his good cards are mostly rare and epic and don't combo very well (it's probably the worst class overall and honestly needs a rework).
Warlock and Hunter, however, do have several very powerful common cards. With those classes you might need to draft a little more low-curve (choose more minions costing 2 or 3 mana than usual) and only use their hero powers in the late game. Then you should be able to get a decent number of wins with them easily.
Warrior, similarly, has got some good common cards including weapons which he needs to establish an early-game lead but he needs more support for the late game like taunts and heals (because he took so much damage from attacking with weapons). If your opponent is a Paladin or Mage and also has a strong late game, you'll probably lose with Warrior. And you encounter a lot of Paladins and Mages in arena so I don't recommend picking Warrior.
When you are an experienced player, you should just pick whatever class you feel like in arena. Unless your draft is terrible, you should always be able to get 4 wins or so.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2016, 06:41:29 pm »
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Also knowing which classes are good is a HUGE factor in arena. Rogue, Paladin, Mage, Druid.

Yeah, pretty much in that order, too (best to worst). And you should never play Priest or Hunter, and Warlock and Shaman are kind of weak too.

Well, you CAN play any class in arena and get at least 4-5 wins even with the weak ones. You just need a lot of experience to be successful with those. "Weak" arena classes are characterized by their "zero-tempo" hero powers (among other things), i.e. their powers do not change the current board state.
Priest can be an exception with the right minions already in play.
Shaman's hero power is just terrible and his good cards are mostly rare and epic and don't combo very well (it's probably the worst class overall and honestly needs a rework).
Warlock and Hunter, however, do have several very powerful common cards. With those classes you might need to draft a little more low-curve (choose more minions costing 2 or 3 mana than usual) and only use their hero powers in the late game. Then you should be able to get a decent number of wins with them easily.
Warrior, similarly, has got some good common cards including weapons which he needs to establish an early-game lead but he needs more support for the late game like taunts and heals (because he took so much damage from attacking with weapons). If your opponent is a Paladin or Mage and also has a strong late game, you'll probably lose with Warrior. And you encounter a lot of Paladins and Mages in arena so I don't recommend picking Warrior.
When you are an experienced player, you should just pick whatever class you feel like in arena. Unless your draft is terrible, you should always be able to get 4 wins or so.

If you can average 4 wins with Priest, you can average 8 with Rogue. Rogue is insanely strong (although it's also very tricky to play) right now. There isn't really any good reason to ever pick Priest or Hunter no matter how good you are, if you're trying to maximize your chances of winning a lot.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 06:43:02 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2016, 06:54:14 pm »
0

Also knowing which classes are good is a HUGE factor in arena. Rogue, Paladin, Mage, Druid.

Yeah, pretty much in that order, too (best to worst). And you should never play Priest or Hunter, and Warlock and Shaman are kind of weak too.

Well, you CAN play any class in arena and get at least 4-5 wins even with the weak ones. You just need a lot of experience to be successful with those. "Weak" arena classes are characterized by their "zero-tempo" hero powers (among other things), i.e. their powers do not change the current board state.
Priest can be an exception with the right minions already in play.
Shaman's hero power is just terrible and his good cards are mostly rare and epic and don't combo very well (it's probably the worst class overall and honestly needs a rework).
Warlock and Hunter, however, do have several very powerful common cards. With those classes you might need to draft a little more low-curve (choose more minions costing 2 or 3 mana than usual) and only use their hero powers in the late game. Then you should be able to get a decent number of wins with them easily.
Warrior, similarly, has got some good common cards including weapons which he needs to establish an early-game lead but he needs more support for the late game like taunts and heals (because he took so much damage from attacking with weapons). If your opponent is a Paladin or Mage and also has a strong late game, you'll probably lose with Warrior. And you encounter a lot of Paladins and Mages in arena so I don't recommend picking Warrior.
When you are an experienced player, you should just pick whatever class you feel like in arena. Unless your draft is terrible, you should always be able to get 4 wins or so.

If you can average 4 wins with Priest, you can average 8 with Rogue. Rogue is insanely strong (although it's also very tricky to play) right now. There isn't really any good reason to ever pick Priest or Hunter no matter how good you are, if you're trying to maximize your chances of winning a lot.

So I guess that means when you open arena and get offered Hunter, Priest and Shaman you stop playing arena forever? I was talking about the capabilities of the weak classes in arena, and sometimes you have to pick one of those. You might even feel like picking a weak class because you're tired of always picking Pala and Mage. Never did I say Priest and Hunter could surpass them but I wasn't talking about maximizing your win rate.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2016, 06:57:19 pm »
0

So I guess that means when you open arena and get offered Hunter, Priest and Shaman you stop playing arena forever?

Well, then you just pick Shaman.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2016, 07:06:00 pm »
+1

If you can average 4 wins with Priest, you can average 8 with Rogue. Rogue is insanely strong (although it's also very tricky to play) right now. There isn't really any good reason to ever pick Priest or Hunter no matter how good you are, if you're trying to maximize your chances of winning a lot.

This is simply false. Classes aren't equally strong, but the differences aren't nearly as big as you claim they are. Look at this for example: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jck4WkEvaKWE0Iw9RrttLHoFO3KEMG6In6XS1okzmx4/edit#gid=1595896034
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2016, 07:06:05 pm »
0

So I guess that means when you open arena and get offered Hunter, Priest and Shaman you stop playing arena forever?

Well, then you just pick Shaman.

I think that's a terrible idea, unless you think it would be fun to play. But Shaman isn't objectively better than Hunter and Priest.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2016, 07:16:03 pm »
0

If you can average 4 wins with Priest, you can average 8 with Rogue. Rogue is insanely strong (although it's also very tricky to play) right now. There isn't really any good reason to ever pick Priest or Hunter no matter how good you are, if you're trying to maximize your chances of winning a lot.

This is simply false. Classes aren't equally strong, but the differences aren't nearly as big as you claim they are. Look at this for example: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jck4WkEvaKWE0Iw9RrttLHoFO3KEMG6In6XS1okzmx4/edit#gid=1595896034

Well, my estimation of what the worst classes were was admittedly half wrong. I thought it was fairly obvious that I said 8 because exactly twice as many wins sounds cooler than a more realistic estimate, though.

So I guess that means when you open arena and get offered Hunter, Priest and Shaman you stop playing arena forever?

Well, then you just pick Shaman.

I think that's a terrible idea, unless you think it would be fun to play. But Shaman isn't objectively better than Hunter and Priest.

I think the Google doc linked by Watno kind of suggests that it is.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 07:17:59 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2016, 01:56:21 pm »
0

If you can average 4 wins with Priest, you can average 8 with Rogue. Rogue is insanely strong (although it's also very tricky to play) right now. There isn't really any good reason to ever pick Priest or Hunter no matter how good you are, if you're trying to maximize your chances of winning a lot.

This is simply false. Classes aren't equally strong, but the differences aren't nearly as big as you claim they are. Look at this for example: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jck4WkEvaKWE0Iw9RrttLHoFO3KEMG6In6XS1okzmx4/edit#gid=1595896034

Well, my estimation of what the worst classes were was admittedly half wrong. I thought it was fairly obvious that I said 8 because exactly twice as many wins sounds cooler than a more realistic estimate, though.

It's F.DS. You posted in the GOON GARDEN's topic. How could you not see this coming? :P
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2016, 01:12:46 am »
0

I seen people forfeit when they're significantly behind several times, but I can't figure out how to forfeit and I can't find any comprehensive list of controls. So how do you forfeit? And is there a full list of controls somewhere?

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2016, 03:12:39 am »
0

I seen people forfeit when they're significantly behind several times, but I can't figure out how to forfeit and I can't find any comprehensive list of controls. So how do you forfeit? And is there a full list of controls somewhere?

On a PC at least, hit the Esc key, and the top option will be "Concede."
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2016, 03:28:54 am »
0

I seen people forfeit when they're significantly behind several times, but I can't figure out how to forfeit and I can't find any comprehensive list of controls. So how do you forfeit? And is there a full list of controls somewhere?

I don't recommend forfeiting until your opponent has lethal and you can't do anything about it. If you really are so much behind that reasonably good RNG can't save you, the game is only going to take a couple of turns anyway.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2016, 03:50:35 am »
0

I seen people forfeit when they're significantly behind several times, but I can't figure out how to forfeit and I can't find any comprehensive list of controls. So how do you forfeit? And is there a full list of controls somewhere?

On a PC at least, hit the Esc key, and the top option will be "Concede."

If, like Kripp, your escape key is broken, you can also get the menu by clicking the "cog" options button in the bottom right of the screen.

Another reason not to concede is that you can learn a lot from playing seemingly hopeless games.  What would need to happen for you to win?  Play assuming it will go that way.  Thinking about how the game could go for you will help you play better in your other games.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2016, 03:57:37 am »
0

I'm beginning to be turned off to this game for one of the same reasons I hate MTG. My opponents play with cards that I don't have access to (or would have to pay extra money to get), so they have an unfair advantage. I think I've gone 1-7 today (in normal play mode).

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2016, 04:07:19 am »
+1

I'm beginning to be turned off to this game for one of the same reasons I hate MTG. My opponents play with cards that I don't have access to (or would have to pay extra money to get), so they have an unfair advantage. I think I've gone 1-7 today (in normal play mode).

You just need to play more. Acquiring cards is trivial when you're good at Arena, and being good at Arena doesn't require having a large collection, it just requires playing more. I haven't purchased anything with real money and I usually have extra dust just laying around because I already have all the cards for all the decks I want to play on Ranked (one of these being Control Warrior, for which I have significantly more Legendaries than I actually use in the deck so that I can switch them based on what seems to be popular on ladder and the reason why I have those extra Legendaries is that I had some extra dust laying around so hey, why not craft another tech Legendary for the Control Warrior).
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 04:09:32 am by Awaclus »
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2016, 05:58:27 am »
+1

Two more small tips on acquiring more cards:
(1) Do your daily quests to earn gold, and try to replace one quest every day for a better one (i.e. a quest that rewards more gold). 40 gold is the least you can get for a single quest so click those quests away whenever you can. They get replaced immediately and the new quest might give 50, 60 or 100 gold, or a pack.
(2) Buy card packs for 100 gold each. For beginners, classic packs are best. Buy The Grand Tournament packs later if you want newer cards or more variety. Do not buy Goblins versus Gnomes packs anymore as this expansion won't be used in standard ranked format from the spring 2016 expansion on.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2016, 07:36:23 am »
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It's not as uphill battle as you might think. I have a lot of friends that started late, struggled to go through a low ranks for some time - like a month, month a half, and than just getting there to rank 15, than 10, than 5. You can see examples on this forum too.
Easiest and best way is to find a cheap deck that is good - like Aggro Shaman, Zoo, Mech Mage - something along those lines - and stick with that. Play it, learn it inside-out and you'll do great.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2016, 09:15:39 am »
+1

I'd recommend playing a class with strong basic answers to cards until you have a larger collection - Mage springs to mind.  Frostbolt, Fireball, Polymorph, Water Elemental, and Flamestrike are all basic cards, and good Classic cards like Mana Wyrm and Mirror Entity are cheap to craft.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2016, 09:16:56 am »
+1

I'd recommend playing a class with strong basic answers to cards until you have a larger collection - Mage springs to mind.  Frostbolt, Fireball, Polymorph, Water Elemental, and Flamestrike are all basic cards, and good Classic cards like Mana Wyrm and Mirror Entity are cheap to craft.

I don't recommend crafting commons.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2016, 09:37:38 am »
+2

I'd recommend playing a class with strong basic answers to cards until you have a larger collection - Mage springs to mind.  Frostbolt, Fireball, Polymorph, Water Elemental, and Flamestrike are all basic cards, and good Classic cards like Mana Wyrm and Mirror Entity are cheap to craft.

I don't recommend crafting commons.

I don't recommend drudging through endless packs waiting for the right cards when you can just craft them.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2016, 09:46:35 am »
0

I'd recommend playing a class with strong basic answers to cards until you have a larger collection - Mage springs to mind.  Frostbolt, Fireball, Polymorph, Water Elemental, and Flamestrike are all basic cards, and good Classic cards like Mana Wyrm and Mirror Entity are cheap to craft.

I don't recommend crafting commons.

I don't recommend drudging through endless packs waiting for the right cards when you can just craft them.

Which is why it's crucial to not craft commons so you can afford the cards you're actually not going to get from a pack. It doesn't take very long to acquire 2 copies of every common anyway.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2016, 10:57:04 am »
+2

I'm beginning to be turned off to this game for one of the same reasons I hate MTG. My opponents play with cards that I don't have access to (or would have to pay extra money to get), so they have an unfair advantage. I think I've gone 1-7 today (in normal play mode).

Well, this is the case for any CCG really. Hearthstone at least gives you set of basic cards to play with (some of which are staples to this day) and gives you a means to collect more cards without spending money by playing more. You want to be playing more anyway so that you can get better at the game.

It may feel like a tough road, but perseverance will get you through it. Ask for advice and watch streams when you can.

You can also post deck lists you've been trying out here for advice/criticism. That can help a lot too.

Edit: oh yeah, don't forget about Tavern Brawl. It's open each week from Wednesday to Sunday. The first TB win you get each week gives you a free Classic Pack. This week is one of those weeks where you don't build a deck with your own cards, so everyone is on an even playing field.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 11:01:51 am by markusin »
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2016, 02:43:19 pm »
+1

I'd recommend playing a class with strong basic answers to cards until you have a larger collection - Mage springs to mind.  Frostbolt, Fireball, Polymorph, Water Elemental, and Flamestrike are all basic cards, and good Classic cards like Mana Wyrm and Mirror Entity are cheap to craft.

I don't recommend crafting commons.

I don't recommend drudging through endless packs waiting for the right cards when you can just craft them.

Which is why it's crucial to not craft commons so you can afford the cards you're actually not going to get from a pack. It doesn't take very long to acquire 2 copies of every common anyway.

I think you're making some serious assumptions about how long it takes to get two of every common.  I don't have two of every Classic common, and I've probably opened ~400 classic packs.

You're so basing your assumptions on your ability to go infinite in Arena.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2016, 02:49:18 pm »
0

I find myself (unusually) agreeing with Awa.

The point is not to get two of every common.  The point is to get some good commons (there are enough good commons that this won't take too long) and then build a deck to take into account the cards that you have, with help from netdecks etc.  That then accelerates your ability to get more good commons while you get better at the game until you can do well in Arena.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2016, 02:57:45 pm »
0

I'd recommend playing a class with strong basic answers to cards until you have a larger collection - Mage springs to mind.  Frostbolt, Fireball, Polymorph, Water Elemental, and Flamestrike are all basic cards, and good Classic cards like Mana Wyrm and Mirror Entity are cheap to craft.

I don't recommend crafting commons.

I don't recommend drudging through endless packs waiting for the right cards when you can just craft them.

Which is why it's crucial to not craft commons so you can afford the cards you're actually not going to get from a pack. It doesn't take very long to acquire 2 copies of every common anyway.

I think you're making some serious assumptions about how long it takes to get two of every common.  I don't have two of every Classic common, and I've probably opened ~400 classic packs.

You're so basing your assumptions on your ability to go infinite in Arena.

Assuming you on average get 3 commons per pack (it's more than than, somewhere between 3 and 4, but this is conservative) 400 packs is 1200 commons. There is less than 100 classic commons (94) - times two is about 200. I don't buy that. Yeah, you might miss some random irrelevant common, but you have 99% of what you need.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #45 on: February 12, 2016, 03:07:16 pm »
0

That's not how probability works.  At the point where you have 187 out of 188 classic commons, you'll need to open on average 47 more packs to get the 188th.  It is self-evidently cheaper to "waste" 40 dust at that point, since you'll get that from 2 packs.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #46 on: February 12, 2016, 03:53:11 pm »
0

You're so basing your assumptions on your ability to go infinite in Arena.

Well, I do have the ability to go infinite in Arena (the daily quests help with that, too, but I play as much Arena as I feel like playing and I make more gold than I spend that way). If I can do it, so can you.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2016, 05:44:16 pm »
0

You're so basing your assumptions on your ability to go infinite in Arena.

Well, I do have the ability to go infinite in Arena (the daily quests help with that, too, but I play as much Arena as I feel like playing and I make more gold than I spend that way). If I can do it, so can you.

You might be overestimating my abilities.

That said, not *everyone* can go infinite in arena.  That's just basic math.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2016, 05:52:15 pm »
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That said, not *everyone* can go infinite in arena.  That's just basic math.

Yeah, but you only need to be in like the top 10% or so.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #49 on: February 12, 2016, 11:55:00 pm »
+1

That said, not *everyone* can go infinite in arena.  That's just basic math.

Yeah, but you only need to be in like the top 10% or so.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #50 on: February 13, 2016, 04:27:13 pm »
0

Someone can do the math on it, but I'm pretty sure top 10% isn't good enough.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2016, 04:56:20 pm »
+1

Someone can do the math on it, but I'm pretty sure top 10% isn't good enough.

It's close; to average 7 wins, it's about 91st %ile.  I don't know if 7 allows you to go infinite though; combined with doing quests it probably does.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2016, 04:59:11 pm »
0

Someone can do the math on it, but I'm pretty sure top 10% isn't good enough.

Well, around 9% of all Arena runs reach 7 or more wins, so unless I'm stupid, someone who's in the top 9% Arena players should be averaging 7 wins. The difference between 6 and 7 is a bit bigger than the difference between 7 and 8, but every victory beyond the 8th makes a way bigger difference than the victories before the 7th, and you get gold for completing the daily quests while you're at it, so it's not a very exact number but I really don't think it's very far from the truth.

Someone can do the math on it, but I'm pretty sure top 10% isn't good enough.

It's close; to average 7 wins, it's about 91st %ile.  I don't know if 7 allows you to go infinite though; combined with doing quests it probably does.

Getting 7 guarantees at least 150 gold. EDIT: re-reading your comment, I think you probably already knew this.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #53 on: February 13, 2016, 05:03:20 pm »
0

Combined with quests you can go infinite or near infinite even when lower than 7 average, I did manage to do so for a short while but than I do not know what happened I am doing significantly worse.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #54 on: February 13, 2016, 05:11:48 pm »
+1

Is this a thread for Hearthstone Noobs? I just downloaded the app, I've unlocked Arena Mode but not much else.

So I have a few questions, if anyone knows the answers.
1. What are some pros and cons about each class?
2. Why is it bad to amass a bunch of cheap costing minions?
3. Any general strategy tidbits would be appreciated.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #55 on: February 13, 2016, 05:40:33 pm »
0

I'll answer your question 1 in a separate post as it is a longer one.

2. Because you use a lot of your resources (cards) and your opponent can clear all that with just 1 card - a AoE spell. You generally want to avoid that. Like, this is not 100% written in stone, but it is a concept that you should always keep in your head.
3. Watch Trump Teachings series on youtube, he explains all the game's main concepts (mana curve, board control, tempo, trading, card advantage, life as resource, etc..)
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2016, 06:08:59 pm »
0

I actually started and wrote a some pros and cons about few classes and than realized it isn't really worth much, it is the best to play them all and see for yourself what fits you. Mostly as new and old players see it quite differently.




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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2016, 06:09:06 pm »
0

Someone can do the math on it, but I'm pretty sure top 10% isn't good enough.

Well, around 9% of all Arena runs reach 7 or more wins, so unless I'm stupid, someone who's in the top 9% Arena players should be averaging 7 wins. The difference between 6 and 7 is a bit bigger than the difference between 7 and 8, but every victory beyond the 8th makes a way bigger difference than the victories before the 7th, and you get gold for completing the daily quests while you're at it, so it's not a very exact number but I really don't think it's very far from the truth.

Someone can do the math on it, but I'm pretty sure top 10% isn't good enough.

It's close; to average 7 wins, it's about 91st %ile.  I don't know if 7 allows you to go infinite though; combined with doing quests it probably does.

Getting 7 guarantees at least 150 gold. EDIT: re-reading your comment, I think you probably already knew this.

I didn't realize it was guaranteed, no;  I had merely heard 7 wins tossed around as a breaking even point.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2016, 06:26:17 pm »
+3

Is this a thread for Hearthstone Noobs? I just downloaded the app, I've unlocked Arena Mode but not much else.

So I have a few questions, if anyone knows the answers.
1. What are some pros and cons about each class?
2. Why is it bad to amass a bunch of cheap costing minions?
3. Any general strategy tidbits would be appreciated.

On Arena or just in general? Assuming Arena:

1. Rogue - has lots of great tempo cards at common, has the most useful hero power, has strong board clear against weak minions, has answers to big minions, generally just a very strong class, but the problem is that you're going to take a lot of damage due to your hero power, so it can be tricky to play right.
2. Paladin - has tons and tons of cards that have enormous effects relative to their costs, mostly at $4. Typically you will get more value than your opponent out of your mid game cards, but at that point, you might already have fallen behind in tempo against, say, a Rogue, and then you don't get to play your Blessing of Kingses and Consecrations which might cost you the game. Your hero power is also pretty weak, as it doesn't do anything immediately.
3. Mage - Has good answers to everything, doesn't have many threatening cards of is own. You can be very versatile with a Mage, since you do actually have somewhat decent board clear even against bigger minions in Flamestrike, so you can sometimes build pretty slow decks that work out well, or you can build faster decks too. Mage doesn't actually have many weaknesses to speak of, it's just not quite as good as Rogue.
4. Druid - Another class suitable for slower decks because it has a million Taunts and some good board clear. A lot of people seem to play Druids very aggressively on Arena, but in my experience that doesn't seem to work out too well very often. Also has some pretty good value cards just like Paladin, but they're not quite as strong, and instead they're more likely to actually do something instead of getting stuck into your hand.
5. Shaman - Has a lot of cards that allow you to finish the game very fast if you manage to get an advantage, but doesn't have a lot of cards that actually allow you to get that advantage. Shamans have lots of decent cards that are, like, on-par or very very slightly better than the top tier neutral commons at the respective price points, but the super good cards are rare or epic so you don't get those too often, with the exception of Fire Elemental which is a super good common. The hero power is horrible. In general, you're going to have a slightly harder time with a Shaman than with the other classes, but if things work out, they can work out really well.
6. Warlock - It has some pretty good commons, but overall, it's not amazing. The hero power can work out super well for you if you can handle the lost tempo, or if you can't, it's awful.
7. Priest - a pretty swingy class on Arena, and usually it doesn't work as well as you'd want. The pros are that it's apparently still better than Warrior, but usually you should avoid picking Priest if possible.

In Constructed, you shouldn't think so much about the pros and cons of each class, but rather, the pros and cons of each deck. A face Hunter has vastly different match ups than a midrange Hunter, for example.

It's not necessarily bad to amass a bunch of cheap minions. There's a limit to how much you can do it, though, because you can only draw one card per turn unless you have extra card draw, and once you've emptied out your opening hand, it doesn't matter if your minion costs 1 mana or 4 mana because either way you can play it and it's the only thing you can play. Except that the 4 mana minion probably does more stuff for you, so you'd rather have that. The other reason is that board clears exist and they can amplify that problem.

For general strategy tidbits, you should read the old Magic article called Who's The Beatdown because it's a classic and it 100% applies to Hearthstone. And do what Grujah suggested (I haven't seen the videos myself, but those concepts are things that you should learn about and why not learn them from Trump given that he has a video series explaining them).

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2016, 06:31:10 pm »
0

Also, in Arena, you don't want to PICK a lot of small minions in arena (if that is what you meant) is that usually you want to play a 2 cost minion on turn 2, 3 cost on 3 etc. as you want to use the maximum of your turn. Playing a 2 drop + hero power on turn 4 is usually less good than  a 4 drop. Also, late in game you would rather draw a bigger minion as it impact the board more and you have a lot of mana anyway.

That being said, you actually do want a good amount of 2 cost minions in arena, as they are still very important, as gaining early advantage can easily translate into win. Also you want only a few of 6,7+ as you dont want the stuck into hand.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #60 on: February 14, 2016, 12:36:13 am »
+1

I mostly agree that it's still much better to get cards free by playing than to have to pay for them, but shouldn't the matchmaking in play mode match you against someone with a similar amount of cards?
Also, an opponent just played a card that gave his minion +10/+10. Such a card should not exist.
On a better note I won two games in a row (before the game where the guy played the +10/+10 card).

Also, there's a druid card, Wild Growth, that gives an empty mana crystal. I don't get it. What does that do?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 12:41:37 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #61 on: February 14, 2016, 12:48:07 am »
+1

I mostly agree that it's still much better to get cards free by playing than to have to pay for them, but shouldn't the matchmaking in play mode match you against someone with a similar amount of cards?
Also, an opponent just played a card that gave his minion +10/+10. Such a card should not exist.
On a better note I won two games in a row (before the game where the guy played the +10/+10 card).

Also, there's a druid card, Wild Growth, that gives an empty mana crystal. I don't get it. What does that do?

That's one of the cards Arch-Thief Rafaam can make.  That card costs 10 mana.  If your opponent plays Rafaam, do not let him have a board.  Just don't.  And keep a board clear ready for the 3/3 mummies.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #62 on: February 14, 2016, 12:55:31 am »
+1

Also, there's a druid card, Wild Growth, that gives an empty mana crystal. I don't get it. What does that do?

If I cast wild growth on turn 2, I gain a mana crystal.  I can't use it turn 2, but my next turn, I'll have 4 mana.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #63 on: February 14, 2016, 01:02:33 am »
0

So I've been testing different classes.

I've made a nice Priest deck: there's a 1/3 minion that draws a card whenever I heal and a 2/7 minion that gains 3 attack whenever I take damage. I use the Priest hero power each turn to regenerate my 2/7 guy, draw two cards, play more minions/spells and attack with my 2/7 guy so that he increases.

When that dream doesn't work out, my deck has plenty of card draw and spells that focus on healing, so I'm usually able to get a strong minion in play, keep it alive, clear my opponent's board and whittle him/her down. It's pretty nice.

EDIT: I had too much card draw, I took 9 'Fatigue' damage.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #64 on: February 14, 2016, 01:04:32 am »
0

there's a druid card, Wild Growth, that gives an empty mana crystal. I don't get it. What does that do?

If I cast wild growth on turn 2, I gain a mana crystal.  I can't use it turn 2, but my next turn, I'll have 4 mana.
Cool, does it last for the rest of the game? (5 mana on turn 4?)

...an opponent just played a card that gave his minion +10/+10. Such a card should not exist.

That's one of the cards Arch-Thief Rafaam can make.  That card costs 10 mana.  If your opponent plays Rafaam, do not let him have a board.  Just don't.  And keep a board clear ready for the 3/3 mummies.
What do you mean by 'don't let him have a board'?

EDIT: A mage plays a minion that gives +5 spell damage. Do they give any thought to balance when making these cards?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 01:48:42 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #65 on: February 14, 2016, 02:11:50 am »
+1

there's a druid card, Wild Growth, that gives an empty mana crystal. I don't get it. What does that do?

If I cast wild growth on turn 2, I gain a mana crystal.  I can't use it turn 2, but my next turn, I'll have 4 mana.
Cool, does it last for the rest of the game? (5 mana on turn 4?)

...an opponent just played a card that gave his minion +10/+10. Such a card should not exist.

That's one of the cards Arch-Thief Rafaam can make.  That card costs 10 mana.  If your opponent plays Rafaam, do not let him have a board.  Just don't.  And keep a board clear ready for the 3/3 mummies.
What do you mean by 'don't let him have a board'?

EDIT: A mage plays a minion that gives +5 spell damage. Do they give any thought to balance when making these cards?

By "don't let them have a board", he means try your best to make sure your opponent has no minions at the start of their turn.

The +5 Spell damage card is Malygos, who costs 9 mana. The thing is, there are certain cards that are meant to be win conditions in the deck. Check out Mage's Archmage Antonidas for another example of such a card.

Because minion-destroying spells are relatively common, the high costing minions need to have absurd effects to be worth including. Unfortunately, a lot of these cards tend to be Legendaries. The decks that require little to no legendaries tend to lean more towards aggression, like the Warlock decks that flood the board with low mana efficient minions.

Priest is neat for beginners because it has a whole bunch of spells that help deal with big minions.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #66 on: February 14, 2016, 05:48:13 am »
+2

there's a druid card, Wild Growth, that gives an empty mana crystal. I don't get it. What does that do?

If I cast wild growth on turn 2, I gain a mana crystal.  I can't use it turn 2, but my next turn, I'll have 4 mana.
Cool, does it last for the rest of the game? (5 mana on turn 4?)

...an opponent just played a card that gave his minion +10/+10. Such a card should not exist.

That's one of the cards Arch-Thief Rafaam can make.  That card costs 10 mana.  If your opponent plays Rafaam, do not let him have a board.  Just don't.  And keep a board clear ready for the 3/3 mummies.
What do you mean by 'don't let him have a board'?

EDIT: A mage plays a minion that gives +5 spell damage. Do they give any thought to balance when making these cards?

Yeah, that empty mana crystal is for the rest of the game. It's quite a powerful effect.

Don't let him have the board means don't let him have any minions on the table. This is one of the reasons why Trump Teachings is good, it teaches you not only the concepts but the lingo too.

Yes, they put a though in balancing. 9 mana is A LOT. You only have 1 more mana to work with, and there are only a few damage spells you can follow it up with. He needs to survive a turn AND you to have burn (damage) cards in hand for him to do much, and it might not seem like a lot, but it is. People will know what you are up to and are going to save a kill spell for a big minion. For 9 mana you can drop some much more scary stuff, with more immediate effect, and Malygos is really only used as a piece of a combo kill. He is still pretty good, but not broken as you might have imagined.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #67 on: February 14, 2016, 10:58:31 am »
+2

there's a druid card, Wild Growth, that gives an empty mana crystal. I don't get it. What does that do?

If I cast wild growth on turn 2, I gain a mana crystal.  I can't use it turn 2, but my next turn, I'll have 4 mana.
Cool, does it last for the rest of the game? (5 mana on turn 4?)

...an opponent just played a card that gave his minion +10/+10. Such a card should not exist.

That's one of the cards Arch-Thief Rafaam can make.  That card costs 10 mana.  If your opponent plays Rafaam, do not let him have a board.  Just don't.  And keep a board clear ready for the 3/3 mummies.
What do you mean by 'don't let him have a board'?

EDIT: A mage plays a minion that gives +5 spell damage. Do they give any thought to balance when making these cards?

As crazy as these cards seem, they are not as crazy as they look. The guy that gives +10/+10 is not as crazy as it seems. See that card called Polymorph? It still kill a 17/17 creature.

Think of it like this. That guy costs 9mana, then 10mana to play. If you have 10 damage in your minions, you can deal 20 damage in the time it takes him to play those 2 cards for a 17/17 minion. The way you need to think about the game is if something like Malygos (The +5 sell damage guy) is played, you need to remove him this turn, or your opponent will win. And sometimes, that's the way his deck wins, by playing malygos and playing spells. When you learn what's possible, things seems less crazy. I remember everything seeming crazy, like Divine Spirit+Inner Fire. I thought it was stupid good because I lost to it once. You realize quickly that it's actually not a strong combo, it just feels that way when you pull it off.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #68 on: February 14, 2016, 11:43:26 am »
+1

I mostly agree that it's still much better to get cards free by playing than to have to pay for them, but shouldn't the matchmaking in play mode match you against someone with a similar amount of cards?

It matches you against someone with a similar performance. If you keep losing games, you'll get matched against weaker opponents (maybe they still have more cards than you do, but they are awful players so you will win a decent amount of time).

EDIT: A mage plays a minion that gives +5 spell damage. Do they give any thought to balance when making these cards?

When a card costs 9 mana, it needs to have an enormous effect (some of which you need to get immediately on the turn you play that card) or it's a worthless card. The game could end before you even get to play a card that expensive, or your opponent could remove it for way less mana than you paid for it, so it needs to really pay off when none of those things happen. Malygos gets played in some decks, but those decks aren't at all dominant and the vast majority of competitive decks don't run Malygos.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #69 on: February 14, 2016, 11:51:21 am »
+1

Also bear in mind that certain decks are built around OTK (one-turn-kill) combos.  This is why every Druid runs Force of Nature and Savage Roar.  I'm currently running a Mage that uses Malygos to deal 30+ damage to the opponent in a single turn, first reducing costs using Emperor Thaurissan once all my spells are in hand with Malygos.  So there are some games where you will lose because your opponent was able to last long enough to get to their combo.  So in general, keep these things in mind:

1) Dominate the board.  This can either mean have bigger/better minions in play than your opponent, or it can mean completely denying your opponent any sort of minions at all through removal spells.  This is particularly true for classes with lots of buffs, like Priest and Paladin.  Never let a Paladin keep anything on the board.

2) Be aware of what the other class's tools are.  If you're playing Warrior, be aware that any damaged minion can die to Execute, and be aware that if they have a lot of armor they can Shield Slam your minions.  If you're playing against Paladin (or Mage) don't put too many low-health minions on the board in case of Consecration (or Flamestrike/Blizzard).  If you're playing against Druid, keep Taunts up or make sure you never go under 14 Health, in case of FoN/SR.  And so on.  I'd recommend browsing through http://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Hearthstone_Wiki just to see what each class has available to them.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #70 on: February 16, 2016, 06:49:52 pm »
+1

Actually just found this on the official site:
http://eu.battle.net/hearthstone/en/game-guide/lessons

It gives some good tips, surprisingly.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #71 on: February 20, 2016, 08:21:20 pm »
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So... my third time in the arena, I get a choice between Priest, Warlock, and Warrior. I choose priest (I've never played Warlock yet at all) and go 1-3.
blah.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #72 on: February 20, 2016, 08:33:30 pm »
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Priest really needs to be played in a specific style - out value / out card your opponent. You need to make every trade favorable, and you do that with your heropower. That's how I go around with him, don't really think there is another way.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #73 on: February 20, 2016, 10:43:49 pm »
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So... my third time in the arena, I get a choice between Priest, Warlock, and Warrior. I choose priest (I've never played Warlock yet at all) and go 1-3.
blah.

That's a pretty awful group of choices, even for a pro.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #74 on: February 20, 2016, 11:08:13 pm »
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Why is there such a short time limit for turns?  At least twice I ran out of time with more things I would've done.

EDIT: Just played a game that was a little too close. We kept trading minions while not doing each other much damage until I ran out of cards and my opponent had about 6 left (I had played a nourish at some point for +3 cards and another drawing card or two). We both had about nine hit points left, but my opponent had a few more minions to play. My very last card was a gnomish inventor. I resigned.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2016, 11:39:24 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #75 on: February 21, 2016, 07:09:05 am »
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Why is there such a short time limit for turns?  At least twice I ran out of time with more things I would've done.

EDIT: Just played a game that was a little too close. We kept trading minions while not doing each other much damage until I ran out of cards and my opponent had about 6 left (I had played a nourish at some point for +3 cards and another drawing card or two). We both had about nine hit points left, but my opponent had a few more minions to play. My very last card was a gnomish inventor. I resigned.

90 seconds is quite enough.
 I think it could be improved by not end the turn if you are doing stuff, but that mainly concerns really convulsed Constructed decks that need to do a very big amount of actions each turn, like Old Patron or Exodia Mage.


Situation that you described is something that you actually can and need to recognize, and if you don't have enough reach or some huge impact minions, say - screw trading and go for tempo / face.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #76 on: February 21, 2016, 11:48:02 am »
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Why is there such a short time limit for turns?  At least twice I ran out of time with more things I would've done.

EDIT: Just played a game that was a little too close. We kept trading minions while not doing each other much damage until I ran out of cards and my opponent had about 6 left (I had played a nourish at some point for +3 cards and another drawing card or two). We both had about nine hit points left, but my opponent had a few more minions to play. My very last card was a gnomish inventor. I resigned.

I remember when I first started playing Isotropic Innovation, I would actually read the card effects and think for so long that my opponent would be prompted to kick me out of the game for inactivity. I'm not sure how long you have to be inactive to have that happen but it's at least a few minutes or something.

Some decks really really require the time to think through turns, but otherwise you just need practice so that you can analyze situations more quickly.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #77 on: February 21, 2016, 01:41:13 pm »
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Why is there such a short time limit for turns?  At least twice I ran out of time with more things I would've done.

EDIT: Just played a game that was a little too close. We kept trading minions while not doing each other much damage until I ran out of cards and my opponent had about 6 left (I had played a nourish at some point for +3 cards and another drawing card or two). We both had about nine hit points left, but my opponent had a few more minions to play. My very last card was a gnomish inventor. I resigned.

I remember when I first started playing Isotropic Innovation, I would actually read the card effects and think for so long that my opponent would be prompted to kick me out of the game for inactivity. I'm not sure how long you have to be inactive to have that happen but it's at least a few minutes or something.

Some decks really really require the time to think through turns, but otherwise you just need practice so that you can analyze situations more quickly.

Well, the basic cards in Hearthstone are very simple and even the hardest cards to play in the whole game have very little text, which is one thing I like about the game. Reading card texts shouldn't require you much time but rather deciding which cards to use in which order. It's very important not to let the sudden appearance of the burning fuse dissuade you from careful thinking. You still have about 15 seconds left so finish your thoughts and don't make any rash decisions.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #78 on: February 21, 2016, 02:05:37 pm »
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Yeah, the rope even waits at its lowest point for 2 seconds or so, so you have more time than the rope indicates.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #79 on: February 21, 2016, 11:58:47 pm »
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Question - how do you get 7 of the same Legendary minion on the board?  I've seen it in a few YouTube videos.  I understand how Faceless Manipulator can get you three on the board, but how do you get 7?  Outside of Mage's Echo of Medivh and Duplicate, that is.  Because I've seen this with other classes.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #80 on: February 22, 2016, 12:10:24 am »
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Question - how do you get 7 of the same Legendary minion on the board?  I've seen it in a few YouTube videos.  I understand how Faceless Manipulator can get you three on the board, but how do you get 7?  Outside of Mage's Echo of Medivh and Duplicate, that is.  Because I've seen this with other classes.

I'm not sure of the specific setup people use, but here's one for Priest.

- Play Legendary
- Kill Legendary, having it be the only minion killed for that player.
- Drop Lorewalker Cho and play Resurrect.
- Now both players play Resurrect back and forth until the board is full.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #81 on: February 22, 2016, 03:28:22 am »
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Question - how do you get 7 of the same Legendary minion on the board?  I've seen it in a few YouTube videos.  I understand how Faceless Manipulator can get you three on the board, but how do you get 7?  Outside of Mage's Echo of Medivh and Duplicate, that is.  Because I've seen this with other classes.

I'm not sure of the specific setup people use, but here's one for Priest.

- Play Legendary
- Kill Legendary, having it be the only minion killed for that player.
- Drop Lorewalker Cho and play Resurrect.
- Now both players play Resurrect back and forth until the board is full.

You could also KT up to 6 then Faceless the 7th.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #82 on: February 22, 2016, 05:39:17 am »
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Question - how do you get 7 of the same Legendary minion on the board?  I've seen it in a few YouTube videos.  I understand how Faceless Manipulator can get you three on the board, but how do you get 7?  Outside of Mage's Echo of Medivh and Duplicate, that is.  Because I've seen this with other classes.

Other classes can also have Mage's Echo of Medivh and Duplicate in certain circumstances (for example, with Saraad).

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #83 on: February 26, 2016, 12:09:02 am »
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Another 0-3 trip to the arena (with a rogue). yuk. The good news is, I still got a pack of cards and 25 gold.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #84 on: February 26, 2016, 12:21:58 am »
+1

Another 0-3 trip to the arena (with a rogue). yuk. The good news is, I still got a pack of cards and 25 gold.

At least an Arena run always gives you a pack. Getting 25 gold on a 0-3 doesn't seem too bad actually. Plus, the experience is valuable too.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #85 on: February 26, 2016, 12:50:07 am »
+1

Another 0-3 trip to the arena (with a rogue). yuk. The good news is, I still got a pack of cards and 25 gold.

At least an Arena run always gives you a pack. Getting 25 gold on a 0-3 doesn't seem too bad actually. Plus, the experience is valuable too.

I'd rather it cost 50gp and not give a pack to be honest.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #86 on: February 26, 2016, 01:03:15 am »
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Another 0-3 trip to the arena (with a rogue). yuk. The good news is, I still got a pack of cards and 25 gold.

At least an Arena run always gives you a pack. Getting 25 gold on a 0-3 doesn't seem too bad actually. Plus, the experience is valuable too.

I'd rather it cost 50gp and not give a pack to be honest.

Huh, I never considered that option. I'd totally be down to play that since it means you get to play more Arena.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #87 on: February 26, 2016, 01:17:10 am »
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Another 0-3 trip to the arena (with a rogue). yuk. The good news is, I still got a pack of cards and 25 gold.

At least an Arena run always gives you a pack. Getting 25 gold on a 0-3 doesn't seem too bad actually. Plus, the experience is valuable too.

I'd rather it cost 50gp and not give a pack to be honest.

I like getting a pack when I play arena. It's good how it is.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #88 on: February 26, 2016, 01:33:31 am »
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Another 0-3 trip to the arena (with a rogue). yuk. The good news is, I still got a pack of cards and 25 gold.

At least an Arena run always gives you a pack. Getting 25 gold on a 0-3 doesn't seem too bad actually. Plus, the experience is valuable too.

I'd rather it cost 50gp and not give a pack to be honest.

I like getting a pack when I play arena. It's good how it is.

Packs cost 100gp. arena costs 150gp. So you cuold still just buy the pack for the same cost. This would just let people play more arena. Potentially getting more gold of course, but right now it just makes bad arena players wait more time before playing arena again.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #89 on: February 26, 2016, 01:44:40 am »
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Another 0-3 trip to the arena (with a rogue). yuk. The good news is, I still got a pack of cards and 25 gold.

At least an Arena run always gives you a pack. Getting 25 gold on a 0-3 doesn't seem too bad actually. Plus, the experience is valuable too.

I'd rather it cost 50gp and not give a pack to be honest.

I like getting a pack when I play arena. It's good how it is.

Packs cost 100gp. arena costs 150gp. So you cuold still just buy the pack for the same cost. This would just let people play more arena. Potentially getting more gold of course, but right now it just makes bad arena players wait more time before playing arena again.

Rationally, that's how it would work, but I suspect throwing in 50 gp and getting back less gold feels a lot worse than throwing in 150 gp and getting back at least a pack. That way, at the end of every arena run you get the player to see what cards they got this time (and to tempt them into buying more packs right now...)
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #90 on: February 27, 2016, 02:31:59 am »
+1

I just got a reward for winning my 100th game in play mode. It's says it's a Hearthstone card mount and that I need to log into Heroes of the STorm to claim it. What's Heroes of the Storm? And what does this card mount do?  Is this another completely pointless reward like those golden basic cards?

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #91 on: February 27, 2016, 02:36:15 am »
+1

I just got a reward for winning my 100th game in play mode. It's says it's a Hearthstone card mount and that I need to log into Heroes of the STorm to claim it. What's Heroes of the Storm? And what does this card mount do?  Is this another completely pointless reward like those golden basic cards?

Heroes of the Storm is an Aeon of Strife style online RTS by Blizzard. The mount doesn't actually do anything mechanics-wise, it just looks cool.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #92 on: February 27, 2016, 04:52:58 am »
+1

I just got a reward for winning my 100th game in play mode. It's says it's a Hearthstone card mount and that I need to log into Heroes of the STorm to claim it. What's Heroes of the Storm? And what does this card mount do?  Is this another completely pointless reward like those golden basic cards?

It's a pointless cosmetic reward for a different game.  You can safely ignore it.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #93 on: February 27, 2016, 09:55:59 am »
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I actually believe that mount is about tricking HotS players into becoming Hearthstone addicts rather than tricking Hearthstone players into trying out HotS (and probably spending less money on it in the way they interact with it)
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #94 on: February 27, 2016, 12:35:39 pm »
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You have it the other way around too (if you get to X level in HotS, you get a HotS cardback).
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #95 on: March 01, 2016, 01:53:59 am »
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Got a daily quest today for 3 wins with a warrior and discovered it is really hard to win with a warrior (at least without other cards that I don't have yet).

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #96 on: March 01, 2016, 08:11:14 am »
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Got a daily quest today for 3 wins with a warrior and discovered it is really hard to win with a warrior (at least without other cards that I don't have yet).

Yeah, basic Warrior is not great. Put in weapons, and use them to clear minions. Warrior uses health as a resource. So 2 Firey War Axe, 2 Arcanite Reaper.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #97 on: March 01, 2016, 10:22:32 am »
+1

Got a daily quest today for 3 wins with a warrior and discovered it is really hard to win with a warrior (at least without other cards that I don't have yet).

Yeah, basic Warrior is not great. Put in weapons, and use them to clear minions. Warrior uses health as a resource. So 2 Firey War Axe, 2 Arcanite Reaper.

You can put together a pretty cheap SMORC warrior with basic and classic cards.  Fiery War Axe, Arcanite Reaper, Kor'kron Elite, Heroic Strike, Wolfrider.  Fill in  with other Charge minions, replacing them with, if you have them: Leper Gnome, Abusive Sergeant, Death's Bite (probably a stretch).  The goal with this kind of deck is to just ignore your opponent's minions and hit face as often as possible.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #98 on: March 01, 2016, 04:34:16 pm »
0

Got a daily quest today for 3 wins with a warrior and discovered it is really hard to win with a warrior (at least without other cards that I don't have yet).

Yeah, basic Warrior is not great. Put in weapons, and use them to clear minions. Warrior uses health as a resource. So 2 Firey War Axe, 2 Arcanite Reaper.

You can put together a pretty cheap SMORC warrior with basic and classic cards.  Fiery War Axe, Arcanite Reaper, Kor'kron Elite, Heroic Strike, Wolfrider.  Fill in  with other Charge minions, replacing them with, if you have them: Leper Gnome, Abusive Sergeant, Death's Bite (probably a stretch).  The goal with this kind of deck is to just ignore your opponent's minions and hit face as often as possible.

This is very correct.  Here's my face warrior:

2x Upgrade
Abusive Sergeant
2x Leper Gnome
Sir Finley
2x Fiery War Axe
2x Heroic Strike
2x Bloodsail Raider
Cruel Taskmaster
2x Ironbeak Owl
2x Loot Hoarder
Bash
2x Arcane Golem
2x Wolfrider
2x Death's Bite
Mortal Strike
2x Dread Corsair
2x Kor'kron Elite
Leeroy Jenkins

I think Upgrade, Sir Finley, Bash, Arcane Golem, Death's Bite, and Leeroy are the only non-common, non-base/classic cards in there.  That's 9 cards, easily replaced with another Abusive Sergeant, another Cruel Taskmaster, Arcanite Reapers, Southsea Deckhands, Bluegill Warriors, and Reckless Rocketeers.

They aren't the best cards, but they'll work.  If you have any random rares you've opened that fit this mold (Armored Warhorse, Argent Commander, etc.) you could use those.

Or you could add a few removal or draw cards if you wanted, like Shield Block, Cult Master, Acolyte of Pain, Slam, Cleave...
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #99 on: March 01, 2016, 08:43:06 pm »
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I get another chance to improve my warrior today (today's quest is rogue or warrior). So I started with the cards Werothegreat suggested and added a few other charge minions and stuff I thought would be good:  (I don't have half the cards ashersky listed)
Inner Rage
Elven Archer
Southern Deckhand (I only have one)
2 Firey war axe
Cleave
Heroic Strike
Acidic Swamp Ooze
Dire Wolf Alpha
Ironbeak Owl (I love this card)
Charge
Shield Block
Argent Horseride (only have one)
Gnomeregan Infantry (only have one)
Wolfrider
Thrallmar Farseer (figure he'd a great target for the Charge spell)
Warsong Commander
Chillwind Yeti
Gnomish Inventor
2 Korkron Elite
Senjin Shieldmasta
2 Arcanite Reaper
Antique Healbot
Nightblade (3 damage battlecry is kinda like having charge)
2 Reckless Rocketeer
Sunwalker
North Sea Kracken (prob my favorite 7+ minion I've found so far)

EDIT: And won my first two games with this deck :)
EDIT2: Then on my 3rd and 4th wins (not right after the first two, but oh well), I finished him off with Nightblade's battlecry.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 11:39:18 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #100 on: March 02, 2016, 01:26:42 am »
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EDIT: And won my first two games with this deck :)
EDIT2: Then on my 3rd and 4th wins (not right after the first two, but oh well), I finished him off with Nightblade's battlecry.

Good job!  If you're looking for cards to replace in future, start with Shield Block and Antique Healbot as they're off theme.  You want to be doing lots of damage to your opponent to kill them as quickly as possible, and both of these cards slow you right down to heal instead.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #101 on: March 02, 2016, 01:37:00 am »
0

EDIT: And won my first two games with this deck :)
EDIT2: Then on my 3rd and 4th wins (not right after the first two, but oh well), I finished him off with Nightblade's battlecry.

Good job!  If you're looking for cards to replace in future, start with Shield Block and Antique Healbot as they're off theme.  You want to be doing lots of damage to your opponent to kill them as quickly as possible, and both of these cards slow you right down to heal instead.
Seems like healing would be more important when I'm using weapons?

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #102 on: March 02, 2016, 02:17:54 am »
+1

EDIT: And won my first two games with this deck :)
EDIT2: Then on my 3rd and 4th wins (not right after the first two, but oh well), I finished him off with Nightblade's battlecry.

Good job!  If you're looking for cards to replace in future, start with Shield Block and Antique Healbot as they're off theme.  You want to be doing lots of damage to your opponent to kill them as quickly as possible, and both of these cards slow you right down to heal instead.
Seems like healing would be more important when I'm using weapons?

Your goal with a face deck is to kill them before they kill you.  If the game runs for a long time you're likely to lose anyway, as the fast aggressive minions tend not to be as good value as the slower midrange minions your opponents might be playing.  Healing is "not losing", and a Face Warrior loses eventually (if the game lasts long enough), so you want to play to win, rather than to not lose.

Do you often find the healing important?  If so then keep going with it.  If you find you'd rather have some additional reach to finish your opponent, try replacing the slower cards first.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #103 on: March 02, 2016, 11:21:56 am »
+2

EDIT: And won my first two games with this deck :)
EDIT2: Then on my 3rd and 4th wins (not right after the first two, but oh well), I finished him off with Nightblade's battlecry.

Good job!  If you're looking for cards to replace in future, start with Shield Block and Antique Healbot as they're off theme.  You want to be doing lots of damage to your opponent to kill them as quickly as possible, and both of these cards slow you right down to heal instead.
Seems like healing would be more important when I'm using weapons?

Your goal with a face deck is to kill them before they kill you.  If the game runs for a long time you're likely to lose anyway, as the fast aggressive minions tend not to be as good value as the slower midrange minions your opponents might be playing.  Healing is "not losing", and a Face Warrior loses eventually (if the game lasts long enough), so you want to play to win, rather than to not lose.

Do you often find the healing important?  If so then keep going with it.  If you find you'd rather have some additional reach to finish your opponent, try replacing the slower cards first.

I think at this point it is best to carefully observe the performance of your deck each game and note which cards help you win the most. For example, when it comes to healing ask yourself "Did I win this game because I was able to heal?". The answer to that question will depend on the deck.

Of course when you're starting out, your card pool is limited so it may be best to use the most playable cards you have.

In your specific deck, I'd say try to rely on taunt minions to keep your health up for the most part. Sunwalker and Sen'jin are good taunts and you've included them so that's good.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #104 on: March 02, 2016, 12:14:16 pm »
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You need to learn/determine one big thing: what's my game plan?

First you need to determine who's the beatdown and who's control. In most cases, you're the beatdown: you are the faster deck and need to close the game quickly. Unless against other hyper aggro decks like Aggro Shaman you might be the control. And I'd say usually only if he gets a fast start with Troggs, as usually he is mostly burn and you are mostly creatures.
Than, you need to know how you win.  Most of the time, you win by attacking face each turn, only killing minions when they are a threat that can reduce more of the damage output in upcoming turn than you lose by killing them. You usually clear them with weapons as that loses you momentum/overall damage. In rare cases, against a another fast deck, it will be a race to deal 30 damage so you might need to recognize when you are losing the race and start contending the board.

Now, Healbot doesn't help you with your main plan at all. When you cast it, you used 5 of your mana for subpar body and you get yourself.. what? Some health back? Does it really matter? You are pressuring your opponent, your shouldn't be under the pressure yourself, you are not really advancing your game plan. What you are doing is applying less pressure, and giving them additional turn, which might be enough to stabilize. If you played a charger for those 5 mana instead, you'd be going in the right direction.
It does help you with the race, true. But a charger would help with the race as well. There are some nieche matchups where it actually does matter (Druid perhaps) but overall it does not give you what your deck needs, either.


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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #105 on: May 02, 2016, 04:01:25 pm »
+1

I just started playing Hearthstone again now that the Whisper of the Old Gods was released. I was never any good at it so thanks for all the advice! I've learnt a lot by reading through this thread.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #106 on: November 22, 2016, 02:42:58 am »
+2

So I decide to buy one last Grant Tounament pack before focussing on buying classic or newer expansions. Then I open Nexus Champion Saraad.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #107 on: November 22, 2016, 04:18:02 pm »
+1

So I decide to buy one last Grant Tounament pack before focussing on buying classic or newer expansions. Then I open Nexus Champion Saraad.

Nexus Champion Saraad might become even better with that new upcoming Priest Legendary which makes your hero power cost (0) (if you have no duplicates in deck). Same for Confessor Paletress.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #108 on: November 22, 2016, 04:34:20 pm »
0

So I decide to buy one last Grant Tounament pack before focussing on buying classic or newer expansions. Then I open Nexus Champion Saraad.

Nexus Champion Saraad might become even better with that new upcoming Priest Legendary which makes your hero power cost (0) (if you have no duplicates in deck). Same for Confessor Paletress.

In Wild, you mean? Doesn't TGT rotate out with the next expansion or the next one in 2017?
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