Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Donald X.]

People may have questions or just want to say stuff and well here is a place.

We are not renewing the contract with MF and will have someone else as yet to be specified.

http://forum.makingfun.com/showthread.php?8711-2016-plan-future

[Limetime]

Party!


I hope that the expansions will be free and that you have to pay to get rid of ads. Hopefully this way dominion online will become more mainstream and the company will make more money long term. I also hope that the company knows what it is doing.

[faust]

It also means that we will not see Empires online before 2017 though.

[Limetime]

It also means that we will not see Empires online before 2017 though.

I wouldn't expect this with making fun in the first place.

[ConMan]

Um ... wow?

I assume this move wasn't taken lightly. I don't think we need to belabor the point of why we are not Goko or Making Fun's greatest fans, but there's still a risk involved in switching horses. Given that I doubt Donald and Jay want a repeat of the original Goko release, I have to assume that there's a reason they trust the new developer to deliver more than empty promises. So is it someone with a track record of delivering? Someone who has produced digital tabletop games already? Someone who has enough servers to handle some actual load?

Also, I can't imagine that they would be giving up on all the platforms currently on offer, so it has to be someone who can manage something that runs on a computer (either web or dedicated client) as well as a tablet app.

[Infthitbox]

Also, I can't imagine that they would be giving up on all the platforms currently on offer, so it has to be someone who can manage something that runs on a computer (either web or dedicated client) as well as a tablet app.

I have to say that the first thought I had when I first heard of this was "please don't take away my linux client". I'd rather have MF and be able to play on linux than a professional, well-made client that I could only play on Windows, mostly because I consider that not being able to play. I also understand that it makes no business sense whatsoever for the relevant parties to act similarly.

[werothegreat]

Seriously? I'm honestly disappointed. MF have been consistently making good progress. We are also so close to getting Adventures online. If we switch again, who knows how long that will take.

EDIT: Okay, it looks like they'll have time to do Adventures. Can you provide any details on the new developer?

[singletee]

Seriously? I'm honestly disappointed. MF have been consistently making good progress. We are also so close to getting Adventures online. If we switch again, who knows how long that will take.

They will have over a year to develop it before we have to say goodbye to Making Fun. We should (?!?) get Adventures in March.

Hopefully the next version does not try to copy the current interface just for the sake of sameness. Especially the tray and the fanned-out hands. Oh, and the creepy avatars.

[blueblimp]

Well that was both unexpected and expected.

My take on why Goko/MF went poorly compared to isotropic is that in the case of isotropic, it wasn't the _only_ online Dominion client, but the best of several, and the others were pretty bad. When there's only one game in town, if you're unlucky and they don't do a good job, there's no alternative. This seems like a problem that plagues licensed clients, and unfortunately I don't have a solution.

My dream scenario is to give up on multi-platform. Hire a company with a strong track record to make an iOS or _maybe_ iOS+Android client, the idea being to capture the high-volume mobile market. The mobile client should tick the boxes that mobile players care about, like offline play vs AI. Then allow the desktop market to be unrestricted as it was pre-Goko (which could mean an isotropic revival if dougz is interested, but also allows somebody else to try if they want). This is based on my unsupported belief that there's more money available selling on mobile than on desktop.

[markusin]

Seriously? I'm honestly disappointed. MF have been consistently making good progress. We are also so close to getting Adventures online. If we switch again, who knows how long that will take.

EDIT: Okay, it looks like they'll have time to do Adventures. Can you provide any details on the new developer?

It will be sad if, by December, Making Fun has a fairly robust client complete with Adventures only to have us thrown into uncharted waters again. I wonder to what extent this move was motivated by a desire to dissociate Dominion Online with any negative reputation MF might have.

Given that Adventures was released in April and the target release date for Empires is April, it would seem that the time it would take to bring Empires online should be around the time it will have taken to bring Adventures online on MF Dominion Online (MF is claiming that will be around March).

[Polk5440]

We are not renewing the contract with MF and will have someone else as yet to be specified.

Thank you! This is very exciting!

[Jimmmmm]

2017: The year of missing Making Fun.

[Watno]

 When will we get information about the pricing structure of the new license holder?
Anyway, I'm very thankful for purchases under Goko carrying over, as well as the MF version staying up till the end of the year, and them even still implementing adventures.

[ConMan]

2017: The year of missing Making Fun.

Wait, is isotropic going down?

[Limetime]

Who supports a system where Rio grande approves of multiple clients so that they can compete and get better? Rio grande would get a certain percentage of profit of course.

[blueblimp]

I'm very thankful for purchases under Goko carrying over,

As I read it, it's not confirmed that Goko/MF purchases will transfer to the new license holder. The quote from the link is "We will provide the Dominion database to Donald and Jay and/or their new developer to allow them to [...] understand your purchase history". The new license holder could choose to ignore purchase history, or maybe offer to transfer at a discount compared to full price.

My guess is that if the new license holder does support desktop OSes, they won't offer full credit for past purchases. If they did, they'd be getting $0 for those users, and it's hard to imagine that being a good business decision for them. (That's part of why my ideal scenario involves the licensed version being specifically for mobile platforms.)

[Mic Qsenoch]

If you purchase or have already purchased a Dominion expansion set in v1 or v2 you will also have it in the new 2017 Dominion experience. Just as we honored all v1 purchases in our new v2, Donald and Jay have committed to honoring your previous purchases in their new version.

[Beyond Awesome]

That's very good news, so all of us can safely purchase Adventures and have it transfer over.

Since the new version comes out in January I do wonder how many expansions will be implemented and when we can expect Empires. I guess there is no easy way to tell since we have no idea how long it will take the new developer to make the game.

If they get DougZ involved this time though, I'm guessing everything will be up and running by January.

So,anyway, what is everyone's thoughts on this?

Overall, I feel this is a good thing. MF has shown improvements, but they have been super, super slow to improve and have taken forever to releases Adventures. Also, many glaring UI issues remain like Scheme, buttons being in easy to mislick places, having to top deck cards from Navigator and whatnot.

If we get a good UI then I think we're set. I guess let's see what happens. This also could be a total bust for everyone.

I do want to say that I feel sorry for MF though. I'm sure they spent a lot of time and money in Dominion expecting to hold onto the license for much longer. I doubt whatever time and money investment they put in Adventures they will make back even if they charge like $20 for it which I would not be surprised in the least if they did.

[werothegreat]

I do want to say that I feel sorry for MF though. I'm sure they spent a lot of time and money in Dominion expecting to hold onto the license for much longer. I doubt whatever time and money investment they put in Adventures they will make back even if they charge like $20 for it which I would not be surprised in the least if they did.

People are still going to be buying expansions over the next year, especially given the next people will be honoring them.  They won't be completely broke.

[Chris is me]

Will there be any overlap between the two versions, or are we just going to have to hope this new developer is going to have a workable game ready right at the start of the new year?

With well over a year to develop it I wouldn't be surprised if it worked out of the box, but there's been a... poor track record with this stuff in the last two versions.

[enfynet]

I think the UI needs to be designed before the look pretty gets any attention. If dougz is involved, that would be magical for playability.

[theblankman]

I have to say that the first thought I had when I first heard of this was "please don't take away my linux client". I'd rather have MF and be able to play on linux than a professional, well-made client that I could only play on Windows, mostly because I consider that not being able to play. I also understand that it makes no business sense whatsoever for the relevant parties to act similarly.

Really?  I use Linux too but ever since MF went to Unity I've been thinking, "Can we please have the webapp back?"  If the new dev goes back to html5+js for desktop then we can have a new Salvager if we want/need it.  Also they'll automagically support any OS where you can install a supported browser, which ought to cover most anyone.  Ideally they'd do a webapp for desktop users plus ios and android apps but that might be more work than they have the resources for.  I guess we'll see.

[werothegreat]

Question for Donald:

Is the new developer porting over the same campaigns from MF, or creating their own?  I don't want to add all that to the wiki just to have to redo it all next year.

[Donald X.]

When will we get information about the pricing structure of the new license holder?

I don't know, but probably not until close to the release date. Jan 1 would be the most generous thing for MF.

[Donald X.]

Since the new version comes out in January I do wonder how many expansions will be implemented and when we can expect Empires. I guess there is no easy way to tell since we have no idea how long it will take the new developer to make the game.

If the new people are any good, and that is certainly the idea, then all expansions including Empires will be up as of day one.

I do want to say that I feel sorry for MF though. I'm sure they spent a lot of time and money in Dominion expecting to hold onto the license for much longer. I doubt whatever time and money investment they put in Adventures they will make back even if they charge like $20 for it which I would not be surprised in the least if they did.

One thing I want to put out here somewhere, is: Jay signed Funsockets aka Goko; they died and the company became someone named Kate (maybe she had been behind the scenes earlier, but I don't think so, and anyway Funsockets was presented to me as a particular group of people sans her, with Ted in charge); Kate hired Making Fun. From my perspective, a random stranger picked who would make online Dominion. I was still behind them for a while; they got a good long chance.

I considered dropping them, then waited a few months, and was uh shall we say not satisfied with how those months went. I decided I was really done but wait, asked my playtesters, who were 100% behind it, then asked 16 semi-random people who post in this sub-forum. The overwhelming message was 1) "I have no faith in those guys," and 2) "Please tell me there will be no time without online Dominion."

[Donald X.]

Will there be any overlap between the two versions, or are we just going to have to hope this new developer is going to have a workable game ready right at the start of the new year?

There is no time period planned for having both versions available at once.

The worst case is I would ask one of the entities that previously had free online Dominion to put it up again for the interim.

[Donald X.]

Is the new developer porting over the same campaigns from MF, or creating their own?  I don't want to add all that to the wiki just to have to redo it all next year.

I designed almost all of the campaigns levels, but not quite all of them. So I'll be replacing those. It's uh. Early sets only, some 10-20 levels total; I'd have to check to know which ones. They are from the Funsockets days and possibly I get to have them but probably I replace them anyway.

The flavor text was originally from Wei-Hwa's girlfriend working for Funsockets; I don't pay attention to that but maybe/probably it's been changed since then, but whatever, we will have new text or no text.

[Davio]

Redesigning from scratch is rarely a good idea (you'll end up making the same mistake), I hope there's enough to salvage (get it?)

[Davio]

Will there be any overlap between the two versions, or are we just going to have to hope this new developer is going to have a workable game ready right at the start of the new year?

There is no time period planned for having both versions available at once.

The worst case is I would ask one of the entities that previously had free online Dominion to put it up again for the interim.

Was Isotropic still being used privately to test new cards? If that's the case, it won't be real hard to get it going again.

[Burning Skull]

Welcome to 2016, the year where a lot is happening to the world of Dominion:
Rio Grande launch new expansion, Making Fun launch the previous one and are launched into space themselves.
That's a lot of news for a couple of days.

[Donald X.]

Was Isotropic still being used privately to test new cards? If that's the case, it won't be real hard to get it going again.

Do not hold out hope for isotropic, that's my advice. But, yes and no, Doug Z. worked on it for a while, but got busy at a certain point and stopped updating.

[Burning Skull]

Does Rio Grande already have the contract with the new guys or are you still looking for ones/choosing between someone?

[Donald X.]

Does Rio Grande already have the contract with the new guys or are you still looking for ones/choosing between someone?

I'm going to leave announcements up to others as usual. And uh I am not seeing the upside of announcing anything until much much closer to the release date. If I think the players need to know something (as I did this thing, that we weren't staying with MF), I will get it said.

[Davio]

Was Isotropic still being used privately to test new cards? If that's the case, it won't be real hard to get it going again.

Do not hold out hope for isotropic, that's my advice. But, yes and no, Doug Z. worked on it for a while, but got busy at a certain point and stopped updating.

I always hold out hope for Isotropic, mainly for nostalgic reasons. I do miss the fake images, like Reynard the Fox as Swindler and MtG's Militia.

I am pretty excited though and reluctantly positive.

[Watno]

I think the UI needs to be designed before the look pretty gets any attention. If dougz is involved, that would be magical for playability.

I think the UI is essential in looking pretty, so they should design it so that it's both pretty and functional.

Do the new guys know how Empires will work so they can take that into account?

[Burning Skull]

Do the new guys know how Empires will work so they can take that into account?

I see what you've done here

[Kirian]

So, since Donald alluded to the various random board members that were consulted, I'll now more openly ask the question that I alluded to in my mail back to him:

Is there any chance that a plucky band of open source adventurers might have a chance to at least bid on bringing balance to the online Dominion universe?

I don't know whether or not the willingness is there, but I'm absolutely certain the talent is available among various and numerous members of the forum.

[Voltaire]

So, since Donald alluded to the various random board members that were consulted, I'll now more openly ask the question that I alluded to in my mail back to him:

Is there any chance that a plucky band of open source adventurers might have a chance to at least bid on bringing balance to the online Dominion universe?

I don't know whether or not the willingness is there, but I'm absolutely certain the talent is available among various and numerous members of the forum.

But is the business background there?

[Kirian]

So, since Donald alluded to the various random board members that were consulted, I'll now more openly ask the question that I alluded to in my mail back to him:

Is there any chance that a plucky band of open source adventurers might have a chance to at least bid on bringing balance to the online Dominion universe?

I don't know whether or not the willingness is there, but I'm absolutely certain the talent is available among various and numerous members of the forum.

But is the business background there?

An entirely reasonable question.  But most of business is math plus marketing plus customer service, and I don't think that much marketing is needed... so maybe?

[Elanchana]

Whatever the interface ends up being, I'd really like one feature from Goko/MF to be there - the feeling that you're actually playing with cards. As much as Iso looked a lot more convenient and easy to use, it still looked like you were triggering lines of code with words or pictures rather than playing a card game. So I do want to see a play area and proportional card images and that kind of thing.

Otherwise, I'd be really surprised if convenience isn't key. Logs, misclick prevention, undo, etc... but you guys already know this.

[enfynet]

Is anyone here familiar with Ascension's online game? (I'm not) I've heard that it is quite popular. I think Isotropic's sideboard supply was better for screen space, but you lose the 18+ stacks of cards on the table illusion given by the Goko/MF client.

[LastFootnote]

I think Isotropic's sideboard supply was better for screen space

People often forget that isotropic actually had two different interfaces; the image-based one and the text-based one. The text-based interface had no sideboard.

[enfynet]

I think Isotropic's sideboard supply was better for screen space

People often forget that isotropic actually had two different interfaces; the image-based one and the text-based one. The text-based interface had no sideboard.

I used the text-based on my iPod (for speed reasons) and honestly don't remember what it looked like because it was just difficult to use.

[funkdoc]

seeing BGG go downright savage on the mobile app made me wonder if the other shoe would drop.  that was the exact audience they needed to win over, and that crowd was way nastier to MF than we were!

[pst]

So, since Donald alluded to the various random board members that were consulted, I'll now more openly ask the question that I alluded to in my mail back to him:

Is there any chance that a plucky band of open source adventurers might have a chance to at least bid on bringing balance to the online Dominion universe?

I don't know whether or not the willingness is there, but I'm absolutely certain the talent is available among various and numerous members of the forum.

But is the business background there?

If something similar to the Making Fun client/server model is used, what I would like most to see is a Free Software client that the company develops in the open with the possibility to accept contributions from others, and with an API that makes it possible to create other clients by third parts. Finally I'll be able to play Dominion inside Emacs! :-) Also, opens up for third-party robots. (The server software would be closed and non-free.)

[pst]

Does Rio Grande already have the contract with the new guys or are you still looking for ones/choosing between someone?

Making Fun writes in the linked message: "We understand that they have engaged a different developer to create a new Dominion Online for 2017, and that development started several months ago."  I have no idea if they have understood correctly.

[assemble_me]

I think Isotropic's sideboard supply was better for screen space

People often forget that isotropic actually had two different interfaces; the image-based one and the text-based one. The text-based interface had no sideboard.

I used the text-based on my iPod (for speed reasons) and honestly don't remember what it looked like because it was just difficult to use.

You can always watch some old WW videos (randomly picking one):

[Dingan]

Awesome news!  To MF's credit, the client has gotten way better lately, and is 100% playable for me.  It's become an Ok product.  But nonetheless I am glad for the change, for all the reasons mentioned.

Is it too early to start requesting features/changes?  Here are a couple major ones off the top of my head:

• Pretty much everything in this thread
• I don't care for 1-player/AI whatsoever (obviously, others probably love it, but I just feel multiplayer should take large priority)
• Tablet-compatibility, if possible
• A sustainable financial model (unless the current one is). All I know is I play a LOT of Dominion, but haven't spent money on it in like 2 years. I would think that should probably change.
• Make game data publicly-available (read-only)

[Kirian]

Does Rio Grande already have the contract with the new guys or are you still looking for ones/choosing between someone?

Making Fun writes in the linked message: "We understand that they have engaged a different developer to create a new Dominion Online for 2017, and that development started several months ago."  I have no idea if they have understood correctly.

True, though Donald started the thread with "We... will have someone else not yet specified."

I'm interested either way.  And I really think f.DS could do this.

[Beyond Awesome]

Awesome news!  To MF's credit, the client has gotten way better lately, and is 100% playable for me.  It's become an Ok product.  But nonetheless I am glad for the change, for all the reasons mentioned.

Is it too early to start requesting features/changes?  Here are a couple major ones off the top of my head:

• Pretty much everything in this thread
• I don't care for 1-player/AI whatsoever (obviously, others probably love it, but I just feel multiplayer should take large priority)
• Tablet-compatibility, if possible
• A sustainable financial model (unless the current one is). All I know is I play a LOT of Dominion, but haven't spent money on it in like 2 years. I would think that should probably change.
• Make game data publicly-available (read-only)

Well, two expansions are coming out, so you will be spending money soon.

I have some ideas to make money off online Dominion. First, cut the prices of old expansions significantly. I'm thinking $2 for small and $4 for large. This encourages casual gamers to invest in the game. I would price Adventures at $8 since it is fairly new and Empires at $15 since this will be the first time it is offered online and its less than a year old for the physical version.

Second have tournaments to win promos and charge $1 to enter. Cap it at 16 players and give everyone who participates a $.50 credit towards an expansion. Not everyone well use this credit so this should be a very profitable idea. Implement the base art cards as a promo and allow first place to choose 3 promos, 2nd two promos and third would get one promo. There should also be another way to get promos like grinding for them.

Just my thoughts.

[iamsparticus]

Thank You!

My main concern is having talent compatibility again, having the option to play players of similar levels whether that is through a table system or something similar to isotropic days. Having additional playing options (veto mode, veto list, point trackers etc.)

MF was getting better and responsive to input, but they built a fundamentally poor product.

[Limetime]

Too encourage addiction every game should be worth Credits and after you earn so many credits you can buy promos /expansions. Also the expansion prices should be lowered significantly.

[Awaclus]

Too encourage addiction every game should be worth Credits and after you earn so many credits you can buy promos /expansions. Also the expansion prices should be lowered significantly.

The prices should be lowered significantly, but it wouldn't be a very good business model to give the expansions away for free. It works for other games because they have different circumstances (usually a pay-to-win element in the game and better opportunities for branding).

[werothegreat]

Too encourage addiction every game should be worth Credits and after you earn so many credits you can buy promos /expansions. Also the expansion prices should be lowered significantly.

The prices should be lowered significantly, but it wouldn't be a very good business model to give the expansions away for free. It works for other games because they have different circumstances (usually a pay-to-win element in the game and better opportunities for branding).

I like the current payment model, and not just because it means I don't have to buy a new version every time there's a new owner.  That said, MF's prices are a bit steep.

[Limetime]

Why not just make it open source? More people will play = more people buy expansions = profit

[Donald X.]

Do the new guys know how Empires will work so they can take that into account?

For me, now, the future version is just not a great topic. I don't want to tell you about it, and I know even "which questions did he answer" tells you something. So I mean, feel free to talk about it, but don't expect me to. I look forward to the future; we want everything to go great, in our conception of what that means; if it doesn't we will be more disappointed than you; yes we knew about your concerns already but feel free to repeat them.

[Watno]

I guess I misunderstood the purpose of this thread then, sorry about that.

[popsofctown]

Since the new version comes out in January I do wonder how many expansions will be implemented and when we can expect Empires. I guess there is no easy way to tell since we have no idea how long it will take the new developer to make the game.

If the new people are any good, and that is certainly the idea, then all expansions including Empires will be up as of day one.

I do want to say that I feel sorry for MF though. I'm sure they spent a lot of time and money in Dominion expecting to hold onto the license for much longer. I doubt whatever time and money investment they put in Adventures they will make back even if they charge like $20 for it which I would not be surprised in the least if they did.

One thing I want to put out here somewhere, is: Jay signed Funsockets aka Goko; they died and the company became someone named Kate (maybe she had been behind the scenes earlier, but I don't think so, and anyway Funsockets was presented to me as a particular group of people sans her, with Ted in charge); Kate hired Making Fun. From my perspective, a random stranger picked who would make online Dominion. I was still behind them for a while; they got a good long chance.

I considered dropping them, then waited a few months, and was uh shall we say not satisfied with how those months went. I decided I was really done but wait, asked my playtesters, who were 100% behind it, then asked 16 semi-random people who post in this sub-forum. The overwhelming message was 1) "I have no faith in those guys," and 2) "Please tell me there will be no time without online Dominion."

This is so great, it's like a wild story of reincarnation and failure. 



You guys are suuuuuuuuuuper optimistic if you're expecting to get Adventures in March.  March is the planned release date that was hanging on the wall in the break room probably, and immediately slips if that wall fixture is reference in the context of having just lost their contract.  Morale and allocation to other irons in Funsockets' fire probably slips it at least a month, probably two.  The only reason expect it to happen at all is because it makes them money.  But if they really liked money they'd make more quality work in general, so I think it's even possible they don't bother finishing it at all. 

Compared to so much other software problems, implementing expansions seems trivial to me, so the delay on adventures was a big reason this has been bad.

[pst]

You guys are suuuuuuuuuuper optimistic if you're expecting to get Adventures in March.

Since Adventures will probably be split up into several "buy expansions" anyway it could be released bit by bit. Maybe no Travellers in the first-releaset set if they have some remaining issues with those to fix for example, etc.

[LastFootnote]

You guys are suuuuuuuuuuper optimistic if you're expecting to get Adventures in March.

Since Adventures will probably be split up into several "buy expansions" anyway it could be released bit by bit. Maybe no Travellers in the first-releaset set if they have some remaining issues with those to fix for example, etc.

Does Making Fun still sell half-expansions like Goko did? I thought I read that they weren't doing that. The campaign levels are still split like that, but I'm not certain you can buy part of a set anymore.

[qmech]

You guys are suuuuuuuuuuper optimistic if you're expecting to get Adventures in March.

Since Adventures will probably be split up into several "buy expansions" anyway it could be released bit by bit. Maybe no Travellers in the first-releaset set if they have some remaining issues with those to fix for example, etc.

Does Making Fun still sell half-expansions like Goko did? I thought I read that they weren't doing that. The campaign levels are still split like that, but I'm not certain you can buy part of a set anymore.

Yes, that went away at some point (maybe the grand re-pricing).

[pst]

You guys are suuuuuuuuuuper optimistic if you're expecting to get Adventures in March.

Since Adventures will probably be split up into several "buy expansions" anyway it could be released bit by bit. Maybe no Travellers in the first-releaset set if they have some remaining issues with those to fix for example, etc.

Does Making Fun still sell half-expansions like Goko did? I thought I read that they weren't doing that. The campaign levels are still split like that, but I'm not certain you can buy part of a set anymore.

Yes, that went away at some point (maybe the grand re-pricing).

Ah, thanks, I didn't know that. Then I guess they wouldn't do that again just for Adventures.

[popsofctown]

You guys are suuuuuuuuuuper optimistic if you're expecting to get Adventures in March.

Since Adventures will probably be split up into several "buy expansions" anyway it could be released bit by bit. Maybe no Travellers in the first-releaset set if they have some remaining issues with those to fix for example, etc.

Does Making Fun still sell half-expansions like Goko did? I thought I read that they weren't doing that. The campaign levels are still split like that, but I'm not certain you can buy part of a set anymore.

Yes, that went away at some point (maybe the grand re-pricing).

Ah, thanks, I didn't know that. Then I guess they wouldn't do that again just for Adventures.

Uuuuunless progress on it slows so much they do it just to make sure they monetize before things expire.

[Donald X.]

I guess I misunderstood the purpose of this thread then, sorry about that.

The purpose of the thread was to let people know this was coming. I thought I could answer questions but did not anticipate the direction some of the questions would take. I will answer your question anyway, I am so friendly.

Do the new guys know how Empires will work so they can take that into account?

The new guys will know exactly as much about Empires as they have to, exactly as soon as they have to (whether that's in the past or future), in order to take it into account exactly the perfect amount.

Hooray!

[Donald X.]

Since Adventures will probably be split up into several "buy expansions" anyway it could be released bit by bit. Maybe no Travellers in the first-releaset set if they have some remaining issues with those to fix for example, etc.

They were not planning to split it. The campaigns still use half each in act 1 and act 2.

[enfynet]

I guess I misunderstood the purpose of this thread then, sorry about that.

The purpose of the thread was to let people know this was coming. I thought I could answer questions but did not anticipate the direction some of the questions would take. I will answer your question anyway, I am so friendly.

Do the new guys know how Empires will work so they can take that into account?

The new guys will know exactly as much about Empires as they have to, exactly as soon as they have to (whether that's in the past or future), in order to take it into account exactly the perfect amount.

Hooray!

Ah but do they know more or less than the average F.ds member? 

[GendoIkari]

I guess I misunderstood the purpose of this thread then, sorry about that.

The purpose of the thread was to let people know this was coming. I thought I could answer questions but did not anticipate the direction some of the questions would take. I will answer your question anyway, I am so friendly.

Do the new guys know how Empires will work so they can take that into account?

The new guys will know exactly as much about Empires as they have to, exactly as soon as they have to (whether that's in the past or future), in order to take it into account exactly the perfect amount.

Hooray!

Ah but do they know more or less than the average F.ds member? 

They know a lot, at least compared to people who know little.

[blueblimp]

A question for anybody who knows: is there an example of a good commercial desktop client that's adapted from a physical expandable card game? I have an easy time thinking of non-desktop examples (like the Ascension iOS client), non-adapted examples (like Hearthstone), non-commercial examples (like isotropic), but I can't off-hand think of one that does them all at once.

[enfynet]

PKCards used to. Before they stopped promoting the game. That was a CCG/TCG that came out about the same time as Dominion.

[Kirian]

A question for anybody who knows: is there an example of a good commercial desktop client that's adapted from a physical expandable card game? I have an easy time thinking of non-desktop examples (like the Ascension iOS client), non-adapted examples (like Hearthstone), non-commercial examples (like isotropic), but I can't off-hand think of one that does them all at once.

MTGO?

[Titandrake]

A question for anybody who knows: is there an example of a good commercial desktop client that's adapted from a physical expandable card game? I have an easy time thinking of non-desktop examples (like the Ascension iOS client), non-adapted examples (like Hearthstone), non-commercial examples (like isotropic), but I can't off-hand think of one that does them all at once.

MTGO?

I have never heard anybody call MTGO well made. At least it works.

[Cave-o-sapien]

A question for anybody who knows: is there an example of a good commercial desktop client that's adapted from a physical expandable card game? I have an easy time thinking of non-desktop examples (like the Ascension iOS client), non-adapted examples (like Hearthstone), non-commercial examples (like isotropic), but I can't off-hand think of one that does them all at once.

MTGO?

People I know who have played MTGO say the client is awful.

[Beyond Awesome]

It is awful. I played a couple of times on it but have found it rather confusing to use.

[WanderingWinder]

I personally don't mind the MTGO client.

I think I'm the only one I've ever heard espouse that opinion.

[Joseph2302]

I personally don't mind the MTGO client.

I think I'm the only one I've ever heard espouse that opinion.

Technically true, because we are all WW.
Thus if anyone else said it, then it would still be you espousing that opinion.

[Drab Emordnilap]

Star Realms? I've never had an issue with the desktop version.

[popsofctown]

The issue with the desktop version is that the servers are empty

MTGO kinda sucks, although it is genuinely difficult to put that particular game into computer form.  Still, there's probably room for it to be better.

I've heard the pokemon tcg has an online form where you can use cards you actually bought and swipe the bar code and use them online or somesuch, but I've never seen their client and don't know how exaggerated that is.  I bet that interface is pretty good, it'd be pretty hard to screw up.

[blueblimp]

Star Realms? I've never had an issue with the desktop version.

Thanks, I didn't know they had a desktop version. The client seems decent enough but there are some things that I assume would be annoying in a Dominion client. For example, even on "fast animation" mode, the animations are pretty intrusive, and the log is hidden unless you click twice. So it reminds me a bit of the later versions of Goko Dominion (once the client was stable).

[Cliffy73]

MtG Duels was originally a desktop application and still has desktop versions, although it really took off when it made it to tablets a few years later. Limited card pool, but the early versions worked well. (The last couple have been somewhat less stable as they've tried to make it more robustly resemble the real-life card game.)

[Awaclus]

I like MTGO.

[Limetime]

I like MTGO.

I like DO.

[cactus]

I'm happy about this. Hopefully Dominion will finally get the online implementation it deserves and go on to bigger and better things.

[mith]

I guess this means I don't have to worry so much about my rating taking a nosedive while I take care of baby.

[JerseyFrank]

is there an example of a good commercial desktop client that's adapted from a physical expandable card game?

Pokémon TCG.  It's monetized fairly, rewards physical ownership, allows for total digital/virtual ownership, if desired.

It's available as a desktop app and and for iPads.  I've never seen the iPad implementation.  You can check it out for free and play/train against bots.

[Witherweaver]

Not sure if anyone brought this up, but is there a plan for a closed beta/test phase?

[Kirian]

Not sure if anyone brought this up, but is there a plan for a closed beta/test phase?

It's actually happening! Philip (SCSN) and I are building the new version of Dominion Online that will go online on the first of January 2017.

At some point we'll be looking for test users, but not yet.

[Seprix]

I like MTGO.

I like DO.

I can play this game too!

I like MGTOW.

...wait a second...

[Trigun]

Does anyone have an update on this? Been a while since I heard anything. Is january 2017 still the target for the new version? If so, will a new IOS app be released at the same time? Because previously we had to wait years for the app, and then great disappointment at Making Fun for making such a bad app where you can ONLY play online (plus great number of crashes).

Eagerly awaiting a new iPhone app to play Dominion OFFLINE! I don't care how much it costs

[ThetaSigma12]

Does anyone have an update on this? Been a while since I heard anything. Is january 2017 still the target for the new version? If so, will a new IOS app be released at the same time? Because previously we had to wait years for the app, and then great disappointment at Making Fun for making such a bad app where you can ONLY play online (plus great number of crashes).

Eagerly awaiting a new iPhone app to play Dominion OFFLINE! I don't care how much it costs

I hope they keep support for my Fire tablet.

[Nyarpy]

I hope they keep support for my Fire tablet.

If they drop that, it seems like my wife and I won't be playing anymore.

[SettingFraming]

Does anyone have an update on this? Been a while since I heard anything. Is january 2017 still the target for the new version? If so, will a new IOS app be released at the same time? Because previously we had to wait years for the app, and then great disappointment at Making Fun for making such a bad app where you can ONLY play online (plus great number of crashes).

Eagerly awaiting a new iPhone app to play Dominion OFFLINE! I don't care how much it costs

Dominion Online 2017 will be released on January 1st, or at least currently all things point towards that. As Stef has said publicly in (I believe) the features thread, the offline version of the game will be released sometime in 2017. I also believe that the alternative application (i.e. mobile) interfaces will be released at a date later than January 1st as well.

[-Stef-]

Does anyone have an update on this? Been a while since I heard anything. Is january 2017 still the target for the new version? If so, will a new IOS app be released at the same time? Because previously we had to wait years for the app, and then great disappointment at Making Fun for making such a bad app where you can ONLY play online (plus great number of crashes).

Eagerly awaiting a new iPhone app to play Dominion OFFLINE! I don't care how much it costs

Sorry, but you'll have to wait longer. On January 1st 2017 we'll go live with our web version of Dominion Online. Our first priority now is to get that up & running smoothly. Once we have that in place we'll continue working on dedicated clients and Dominion Offline, but that certainly won't be released early in 2017.

[critchie]

Do we know how the new pricing model will work?

I'll be honest - The MF implementation didn't work at all on my android tablet, my iPhone, or my computer in browser for much of 2016. I'm really disappointed with how online Dominion has been turning out. I hope this new team does better.

But, will there be a grace period or trial period of any kind to try the new implementation before immediately paying for a full subscription?

--------------

I'm a doofus - It's here. http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16679.0

[Mic Qsenoch]

Do we know how the new pricing model will work?

I'll be honest - The MF implementation didn't work at all on my android tablet, my iPhone, or my computer in browser for much of 2016. I'm really disappointed with how online Dominion has been turning out. I hope this new team does better.

But, will there be a grace period or trial period of any kind to try the new implementation before immediately paying for a full subscription?

You picked a good day to ask this question

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16679.0

You will be able to play the Base set without a subscription.

[David Goldfarb]

As of next Sunday, Goko is gone.  Fine.  So: on that Sunday, I wake up in the morning and decide I want to start off my day with a game of Dominion. What do I do?

I've been looking around the forums here and on BGG, including reading the FAQ here for Dominion Online 2017, and I find that most basic of questions is not answered. It's been rather frustrating, really.

[LaLight]

As of next Sunday, Goko is gone.  Fine.  So: on that Sunday, I wake up in the morning and decide I want to start off my day with a game of Dominion. What do I do?

I've been looking around the forums here and on BGG, including reading the FAQ here for Dominion Online 2017, and I find that most basic of questions is not answered. It's been rather frustrating, really.

Hey!

I believe that at the very moment you'll want to play a game, you will just need to check your e-mail that you are using to sign in Goko right now and find the letter from Shuffle IT

[McMatt]

Hi,

I am very much interested in a small preview to the sober client that was planned:

[...]
* We intend to have different clients for different people. One will look as pretty as we can make it, one will be sober, with minimal images and mostly text. [...]
[...]

A screenshot as teaser would make me happy

Cheers,
Matt

[LastFootnote]

Hi,

I am very much interested in a small preview to the sober client that was planned:

[...]
* We intend to have different clients for different people. One will look as pretty as we can make it, one will be sober, with minimal images and mostly text. [...]
[...]

A screenshot as teaser would make me happy

Cheers,
Matt

I am guessing—guessing!—that the minimalist client has been put on the back burner along with lots of other planned features, as Shuffle iT realized that making this game was a LOT more work than they anticipated. I'm not saying it will never materialize, but it's gotta be pretty far down on the priority list, and that's a long list. Again, these are my educated guesses.

[McMatt]

You are very likely guessing right: They have a huge list of things they want to implement and they are probably not as far down this list as they would like to be by today.
And you are guessing right again: The slim client is probably at the bottom of this list. -- but this would be very unfortunate, as it is a low hanging fruit. It is just an additional view implementation with some minor tweaks on other places.

[pragmaticleas]

Will we be able to play dominion online at http://playdominion.com/ on Jan 1, 2017? If not, which address will it be?

[LaLight]

Will we be able to play dominion online at http://playdominion.com/ on Jan 1, 2017? If not, which address will it be?

Everyone will be notified about all the changes within the 31st of December, don't worry and check your emails

[jsh357]

You are very likely guessing right: They have a huge list of things they want to implement and they are probably not as far down this list as they would like to be by today.
And you are guessing right again: The slim client is probably at the bottom of this list. -- but this would be very unfortunate, as it is a low hanging fruit. It is just an additional view implementation with some minor tweaks on other places.

If it makes you feel better, right now you can at least remove the background images if you want a cleaner playing window. I also look forward to the simple interface.

[Witherweaver]

[AdrianHealey]

Yes, I will listen to Les Miserables today.

[Thera]

The email I thought was associated with my Dominion account (Thera) did not get an email about how to access the new account (it's 6:30am AEST GMT+10 currently and the old dominion game is offline)  If someone could point me in the direction of where I can login etc so I can get online and check out the new version it would be greatly appreciated.

[Watno]

As far as I am aware, emails are currently rolling out, but it will take a while until all of them have been sent.

You can check out the whole thing at dominion.games, you only need the email to transfer your expansion credits.

[qalnor]

2 questions..

1. Is there a non-web client for the PC and
2. Why are there two 'banned' cards?

[Watno]

1) Not yet.
2)  These cards havent been fully implemented yet.

[MaartenRobinson]

No dominion online now ....assuming email will follow soon ...!

[-Stef-]

No dominion online now ....assuming email will follow soon ...!

They're coming... we're sending them out in batches, checking if everything is ok in between.

[AdrianHealey]

It looks amazing, Stef. Well done. I'll gladly send money you guys direction.

I mean, it's not perfect yet, but as it stands, I have every faith that you guys are working hard and that it'll become really good.

[Witherweaver]

I'm still misclicking a ton, but I think I don't have anything to blame except sheer stupidity.

[gkrieg13]

I'm still misclicking a ton, but I think I don't have anything to blame except sheer stupidity.

Just be glad that autobuy isn't turned on.  It creates even more misclicks!

[iamsparticus]

I'd appreciate an explanation for how the matching system works.

1. What is a quick match vs. a good match?
2. Is there a ranking system? More importantly will I be able to use this to specify what ranking of players I wish to play with?
3. Is there or will there be a ban list? Specifically, players that I wish to not play with again.

[Thera]

As far as I am aware, emails are currently rolling out, but it will take a while until all of them have been sent.

You can check out the whole thing at dominion.games, you only need the email to transfer your expansion credits.

Thanks for the link. It's not letting me login with my existing account, have the accounts not been ported across yet? Do we need to signup fresh?

[Thera]

I'd appreciate an explanation for how the matching system works.

1. What is a quick match vs. a good match?
2. Is there a ranking system? More importantly will I be able to use this to specify what ranking of players I wish to play with?
3. Is there or will there be a ban list? Specifically, players that I wish to not play with again.

I second these questions, and esp the ban list point - I HATED when people quitted games because they were losing, or they were unhappy that I was lucky enough to get a 5 copper hand (seriously, people resigned over that), and Ipersonally would choose to avoid playing those players again.

[Thera]

Anyone else hitting problems trying to login, signup or accessing the 'forgot your password' option?

[Dwedit]

I HATED when people quitted games because they were losing

Does resigning count as quitting, or are you talking about people that disconnect?

[MaartenRobinson]

It looks amazing, Stef. Well done. I'll gladly send money you guys direction.

I mean, it's not perfect yet, but as it stands, I have every faith that you guys are working hard and that it'll become really good.

So ... how do I find out where to use the new version ... I was a signed up and paid up member of making fun and have received no email yet ... telling me what to do ... is there an email address where I can ask how to get reinstated etc ... as an addict, I'm starting to get dilerium tremends!

[MaartenRobinson]

No dominion online now ....assuming email will follow soon ...!

They're coming... we're sending them out in batches, checking if everything is ok in between.

Hi Stef ... am I being impatient?  As an addict I'll be getting DTs soon ... after what date should I start to worry if I haven't got my access to the new facility?   
I had purchased several of the making fun sets so I guess I might be a silver user or whatever!

[-Stef-]

No dominion online now ....assuming email will follow soon ...!

They're coming... we're sending them out in batches, checking if everything is ok in between.

Hi Stef ... am I being impatient?  As an addict I'll be getting DTs soon ... after what date should I start to worry if I haven't got my access to the new facility?   
I had purchased several of the making fun sets so I guess I might be a silver user or whatever!

Could you send me a PM with some data I can use to search for your account?
Like username and/or assigned email address.

[kieranmillar]

I signed up a new account but the e-mail confirmation has never come through, even when I log in and type in my e-mail address and click confirm.

I'm guessing there's a lot of e-mails for their server to deal with right now, so I should wait to try out the new client tomorrow?

[NoMoreFun]

I managed to play a few games, but now it wants me to confirm my email and I can't do it (even if I enter it into the box and hit confirm, nothing happens).

Edit: Also my username was reserved and I couldn't log in, so I logged in under a new username (and bought a month of a gold subscription).

[kieranmillar]

While I continue to not have a ShuffleIT forum account because I can't be bothered to sign up, I'll post here.

It looks like this unable to confirm e-mail account issue is playing havoc with the lobby. I have noticed that when I tried to Quick Match or Bot Game, it would tell me I couldn't host a game, but then it turns out that it still created a game anyway, but left me out of it. I found a number of games I was apparently hosting from a few hours ago, which I can only think of as coming from this.

I managed to clean up my fake games by joining them as a spectator, joining, kicking any poor soul waiting for a game, then leaving. I couldn't actually play the game because it still wouldn't let me host.

It seems like the lobby is currently filled with an enormous number of these fake games. Might be worth purging the lobby of duplicate hosted games, it's really difficult to find a legitimate game right now.

EDIT: Of course it's only difficult to find a game because matchmaking isn't working because e-mail confirmations aren't working.

[Witherweaver]

Small bug I noticed while displaying the point totals at the end of the game.  It seems to display the total number of VP from the corresponding Card (e.g., if you have 5 Provinces it would list #: 5, VP: 40).  However, with Gardens it displays points-per-garden instead of total points (e.g., if you had 63 cards and 5 Gardens it would list #: 5, VP: 6 instead of #:5, VP: 30).  Not sure if it's the same for Vineyards, Fairgrounds, etc.  It could be intentional, but it seems inconsistent. 

(Total points is correct; this is just the display of the breakdown.)

[Robz888]

I waited all of 30 seconds to upgrade to the gold package. This is exciting!

[heeyuck]

No email yet...for people whose account successfully transferred over, did your stats and rating transfer, as well, or just the username? I'm wondering if I'd be better off just creating a new account rather than keep waiting.

[Watno]

It will import your rating from the latest isotropish leaderboard (gokosalvager.com/leaderboard/?full=True&sortkey=level) for matchmaking purposes.

There is no leaderboard for the new version yet, it will be implemented once some initial data has been gathered.

[avorian]

Can we get a rough idea when the e-mails might start going out? As is it's pretty terrible since it seems matching randomly chooses one player as host then denies the game if that person happens to not have a confirmed email

[kieranmillar]

In case anyone had the same problem I did:

A few hours ago Stef said on the official forum that a new version had been pushed live that fixed the e-mail confirmation not being sent issue, but nothing had changed for me. By pressing Ctrl+F5 I forced a refresh that also cleared my cache for the site, and lo and behold the verison number changed to 1.0.2 and now it's sent me my e-mail.

Hooray!

[avorian]

I will be checking if the above works. In the meantime though, I tried to register for the ShuffleIT forums and now am being told I cannot register multiple accounts with the same computer, despite having never received the confirmation email they claimed was being sent.

Tinier bug note: you really need a way to backtrack out of the "Sign up" main menu into the main login area.

Also, now that I know my payment method is not accepted, I am more concerned about getting access to my old MF name and its benefits.

EDIT: As the post below me says: popup appears, but no email. Wowee I feel noticed.

[NoMoreFun]

I now get a pop up saying an email has been sent, but no email.

[avorian]

Same here: and on reflection that may only be because clearing cookies cleared my preference to block the thousand "you must confirm your email to host" popups

[drummergirl359@hotmail.co]

I never got the email to play dominion online 2017.  What do I do now?
J. R.

[Kirian]

Don't forget to check your various spam folders for the email, everyone.

[avorian]

Don't forget to check your various spam folders for the email, everyone.

I know you're trying to be helpful, but I did, I have every time (many) that I have attempted an action with a confirmation email or activation code.

[SirPeebles]

Is there anyway to read the descriptions of the cards in game while playing?

[LastFootnote]

Is there anyway to read the descriptions of the cards in game while playing?

Right-click.

[SirPeebles]

Is there anyway to read the descriptions of the cards in game while playing?

Right-click.

Ah, that works with a mouse. I don't suppose there is anyway with a tablet?

[Flip5ide]

Sorry if this has been answered already. The email I had used to make my account is no longer active; it was from my high school. Is there any way I can continue to play Dominion?

[Flip5ide]

I second these questions, and esp the ban list point - I HATED when people quitted games because they were losing, or they were unhappy that I was lucky enough to get a 5 copper hand (seriously, people resigned over that), and Ipersonally would choose to avoid playing those players again.

I don't understand this. Quitting a game that you are losing is the respectable thing to do. I have never "ragequit", per se, but if you play enough games you can tell when the game is out of reach. Resigning allows you to have a rematch with your opponent faster, or to play other people faster.

[tailred]

Sorry if this has been answered already. The email I had used to make my account is no longer active; it was from my high school. Is there any way I can continue to play Dominion?

You'd probably have the most success PMing Stef or LaLight on here or on Discord.

[LastFootnote]

I don't understand this. Quitting a game that you are losing is the respectable thing to do. I have never "ragequit", per se, but if you play enough games you can tell when the game is out of reach. Resigning allows you to have a rematch with your opponent faster, or to play other people faster.

Some people play Dominion because they enjoy playing Dominion. Not because they enjoy climbing the leaderboard. For those people, having a game suddenly end sucks.

[Jimmmmm]

I don't understand this. Quitting a game that you are losing is the respectable thing to do. I have never "ragequit", per se, but if you play enough games you can tell when the game is out of reach. Resigning allows you to have a rematch with your opponent faster, or to play other people faster.

Some people play Dominion because they enjoy playing Dominion. Not because they enjoy climbing the leaderboard. For those people, having a game suddenly end sucks.

I'm hoping there's an option to keep playing with an AI.

But you should never feel like you HAVE to keep playing a 2-player online game if you think you can't win.

[pst]

I don't understand this. Quitting a game that you are losing is the respectable thing to do. I have never "ragequit", per se, but if you play enough games you can tell when the game is out of reach. Resigning allows you to have a rematch with your opponent faster, or to play other people faster.

Some people play Dominion because they enjoy playing Dominion. Not because they enjoy climbing the leaderboard. For those people, having a game suddenly end sucks.

Exactly. It has often happened that people have resigned without a comment and then immediately challenged me to a new game. From their perspective they think the game is over so they want to start a new one as soon as possible. But I reject, thinking "well, if you wanted to play we already had a game going! I'll find someone who wants to play instead."

I'd like general functions for "please match me against that player again" and "avoid matching me against that player again". What reasons they are used for is up to the users. There are so many reasons for preferring playing against some players against others. It could be used because you don't like the chat from someone, or because of something in real life because you know them, or because you think they play too slow or maybe so fast that you feel stressed. But also just because of a preference like for playing out games instead of resigning. So this really doesn't mean that there is necessarily anything wrong with that player, only that player one gets more enjoyment of playing against someone else.

[Awaclus]

Some people play Dominion because they enjoy playing Dominion. Not because they enjoy climbing the leaderboard. For those people, having a game suddenly end sucks.

You mean, some people play Dominion because they enjoy pointless clicking on cards without a purpose, not because they enjoy playing Dominion. For those people, having the pointless clicking suddenly end after the actual game is over sucks.

[NoMoreFun]

Could you please update the results screen with a line explaining why the game ended?

Edit: Email still isn't working, but I can get into a game by constantly refreshing "quick match" and if there's no pop up a game might start.

[LastFootnote]

Some people play Dominion because they enjoy playing Dominion. Not because they enjoy climbing the leaderboard. For those people, having a game suddenly end sucks.

You mean, some people play Dominion because they enjoy pointless clicking on cards without a purpose, not because they enjoy playing Dominion. For those people, having the pointless clicking suddenly end after the actual game is over sucks.

Please explain to me how winning Dominion is less pointless than playing it.

[Throwaway_bicycling]

Is there anyway to read the descriptions of the cards in game while playing?

Right-click.

Ah, that works with a mouse. I don't suppose there is anyway with a tablet?

Or with a Mac...I did stumble onto a way to show card text by hovering over cards, but it didn't seem to work consistently.

[Watno]

As far as im aware ctrl+click or somehing similar works on macs, unfortunately theres no way for tablets yet

[Throwaway_bicycling]

I waited all of 30 seconds to upgrade to the gold package. This is exciting!

Surprisingly to me, although my attempt to upgrade to Gold initially seemed to work, they failed when the online processor tried to hand off to the card company. I have to say, I have never seen anything like this trying to pay online with a credit card from the US before, but I hope this isn't a widespread issue. (Latest version of MacOS with up to date Chrome Browser with an Amazon cc handled by Chase.)

[Throwaway_bicycling]

As far as im aware ctrl+click or somehing similar works on macs, unfortunately theres no way for tablets yet

So I tried every modifier key plus click to no avail. Plus, whatever the approved way is should be documented somewhere.

[Calamitas]

Some people play Dominion because they enjoy playing Dominion. Not because they enjoy climbing the leaderboard. For those people, having a game suddenly end sucks.

You mean, some people play Dominion because they enjoy pointless clicking on cards without a purpose, not because they enjoy playing Dominion. For those people, having the pointless clicking suddenly end after the actual game is over sucks.

Please explain to me how winning Dominion is less pointless than playing it.

In the moment the outcome of the game is clear, the actual game is over. No more strategic thinking, just plain execution. And I certainly don't play dominion for playing my reliable action chain over and over again until all provinces run out (and most opponents don't either I think). That part is just boring and annoying when the game drags on further. In such situations, I consider it a good manner to resign, just like it's done in chess for example.

[Awaclus]

Please explain to me how winning Dominion is less pointless than playing it.

You have it the wrong way round. Winning Dominion is pointless, playing it is not. That's why you stop the game as soon as someone has won and move on to playing the next game instead of dragging the part where someone is already winning and nobody is playing.

[NoMoreFun]

There's a difference between "playing" and "going through the motions until the game ends". Dominion is a game where you can have literally no chance of winning and the game doesn't end.

Didn't Isotropic have conditional resigning? I can't remember the details

[Awaclus]

There's a difference between "playing" and "going through the motions until the game ends". Dominion is a game where you can have literally no chance of winning and the game doesn't end.

Didn't Isotropic have conditional resigning? I can't remember the details

You could only resign at the start of your own turn. That's a feature I don't miss at all.

[kieranmillar]

Found a card bug. Played Overlord as Treasure map and trashed another Treasure map, didn't get my 4 golds. Wiki says "You gain 4 Golds when you play Band of Misfits as Treasure Map." so presumably Overlord should work similarly.

Code: [Select]

Turn 5 - kieranmillar
k plays an Overlord.
  k plays a Treasure Map.
    k trashes a Treasure Map and an Overlord.
k plays 3 Coppers.
k buys an Overlord.
  k takes 8 debt.
k gains an Overlord.
k repays 3 debt (5 remaining).
k draws 3 Coppers and 2 Estates.

[heeyuck]

Still no email. Yesterday, when I tried to "sign up" under my old SN I got a message saying that SN was reserved. However, today, I got a message saying "please enter a valid email." Well, I'm quite sure my email is valid as I still use it regularly. I also tried another email address and got the same message.

[Thera]

I HATED when people quitted games because they were losing

Does resigning count as quitting, or are you talking about people that disconnect?

resigning. tech problems are outside of a persons conrol.

[Watno]

Still no email. Yesterday, when I tried to "sign up" under my old SN I got a message saying that SN was reserved. However, today, I got a message saying "please enter a valid email." Well, I'm quite sure my email is valid as I still use it regularly. I also tried another email address and got the same message.

The email issue is still being worked on.

[Thera]

Some people play Dominion because they enjoy playing Dominion. Not because they enjoy climbing the leaderboard. For those people, having a game suddenly end sucks.

You mean, some people play Dominion because they enjoy pointless clicking on cards without a purpose, not because they enjoy playing Dominion. For those people, having the pointless clicking suddenly end after the actual game is over sucks.

Please explain to me how winning Dominion is less pointless than playing it.

In the moment the outcome of the game is clear, the actual game is over. No more strategic thinking, just plain execution. And I certainly don't play dominion for playing my reliable action chain over and over again until all provinces run out (and most opponents don't either I think). That part is just boring and annoying when the game drags on further. In such situations, I consider it a good manner to resign, just like it's done in chess for example.

people often resign when there is only a slight upperhand to the other player, rather then a clear cut 'game is over', I certainly don't always feel like I've 'won' already when they do this.

Also it's rude to do so for whatever reason without sending a chat message - at least a GG to indicate that you're  resigning because you see it as their victoty.

[Thera]

Still no email. Yesterday, when I tried to "sign up" under my old SN I got a message saying that SN was reserved. However, today, I got a message saying "please enter a valid email." Well, I'm quite sure my email is valid as I still use it regularly. I also tried another email address and got the same message.

The email issue is still being worked on.

thanks for the update. guess I'll check back again tomorrow and see if I've got the email yet or not. Hopefully payment frrom my Australian cards will work given the posts I've seen from Americans with payment issues they've encountered.  Alternatively is there paypal as a payment option if regional credit cards/eftpos cards wont work with the payment gateway?  I'd feel more secure with PayPal then a payment gateway that I'm unfamiliar with and do not know the security track record (I mean hell I can research it if I have to, but blah effort?)

[Watno]

There is an option to pay via PayPal, but that also isn't handled by ShuffleIt directly.

[Kirian]

You guys, the resignation horse has been dead for like three years.  The community in general treats resigning in Dominion like chess; you can resign at any time, though it's poor form to do so without a handshake/gg.  Yes, that includes resigning even when you don't think you're winning; obviously the other player felt they were losing.

[LastFootnote]

You guys, the resignation horse has been dead for like three years.  The community in general treats resigning in Dominion like chess; you can resign at any time, though it's poor form to do so without a handshake/gg.  Yes, that includes resigning even when you don't think you're winning; obviously the other player felt they were losing.

Well, that's the thing, though. The hardcore community—for the most part—views Dominion like chess. And now we have an implementation by and for that community alone, which is likely going to alienate everybody else. Subscriptions are probably the biggest symptom here, but mid-turn resignation is another one. I would prefer isotropic-style where you can only resign at the start of your turn. I'd forgotten about that, but it sure sounds nice.

[JW]

You guys, the resignation horse has been dead for like three years.  The community in general treats resigning in Dominion like chess; you can resign at any time, though it's poor form to do so without a handshake/gg.  Yes, that includes resigning even when you don't think you're winning; obviously the other player felt they were losing.

Well, that's the thing, though. The hardcore community—for the most part—views Dominion like chess. And now we have an implementation by and for that community alone, which is likely going to alienate everybody else. Subscriptions are probably the biggest symptom here, but mid-turn resignation is another one. I would prefer isotropic-style where you can only resign at the start of your turn. I'd forgotten about that, but it sure sounds nice.

The developers seemed interested in a feature that you'd can continue a resigned game against a bot, and that will presumably help with these sentiments.

[Awaclus]

Well, that's the thing, though. The hardcore community—for the most part—views Dominion like chess. And now we have an implementation by and for that community alone, which is likely going to alienate everybody else. Subscriptions are probably the biggest symptom here, but mid-turn resignation is another one. I would prefer isotropic-style where you can only resign at the start of your turn. I'd forgotten about that, but it sure sounds nice.

That's like saying that the hardcore Chess community views Chess like Chess.

[Jimmmmm]

Also it's rude to do so for whatever reason without sending a chat message - at least a GG to indicate that you're  resigning because you see it as their victoty.

I disagree with this unless you've already been using chat.

[pingpongsam]

What browsers are supported? Safari and Dolphin on iPad are not getting past the loading screen.

[Watno]

Have you tried this recently? Ipad browsers had that problem, but it was assumed to be fixed.

[Beyond Awesome]

You guys, the resignation horse has been dead for like three years.  The community in general treats resigning in Dominion like chess; you can resign at any time, though it's poor form to do so without a handshake/gg.  Yes, that includes resigning even when you don't think you're winning; obviously the other player felt they were losing.

Well, that's the thing, though. The hardcore community—for the most part—views Dominion like chess. And now we have an implementation by and for that community alone, which is likely going to alienate everybody else. Subscriptions are probably the biggest symptom here, but mid-turn resignation is another one. I would prefer isotropic-style where you can only resign at the start of your turn. I'd forgotten about that, but it sure sounds nice.

I do agree that I believe the more casual audiences will be turned off and I think the subscription system will play a big part in that. Also initial impressions with casual people is not so positive if Reddit is anything to go by.

[Witherweaver]

When you resign, it should just automatically show this image to your opponent:



before ending the game.

[yed]

What browsers are supported? Safari and Dolphin on iPad are not getting past the loading screen.

See http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=895.0

[pingpongsam]

Have you tried this recently? Ipad browsers had that problem, but it was assumed to be fixed.

Well, I consider January 1st recent but I just tried it again and same issue. I see the black and white dominion castle and spinner and nothing else, ever. It's all I've ever seen of the new system.

[popsofctown]

Will we be able to play dominion online at http://playdominion.com/ on Jan 1, 2017? If not, which address will it be?

Everyone will be notified about all the changes within the 31st of December, don't worry and check your emails

I don't have access to the email I used for goko. I used a fake email because I never intended to spend money on their crap.  But it is taking me too many clicks to figure out where this new online implementation resides.

[greatexpectations]

Well, that's the thing, though. The hardcore community—for the most part—views Dominion like chess. And now we have an implementation by and for that community alone, which is likely going to alienate everybody else. Subscriptions are probably the biggest symptom here, but mid-turn resignation is another one.    I would prefer isotropic  -style where you can only resign at the start of your turn. I'd forgotten about that, but it sure sounds nice.

two bot games attempted, two games which froze midturn and couldn't be saved.

i miss the good ol days.

edit: ok attempt 3 went a bit smoother. hoping for the best!

[pingpongsam]

Working just fine in iOS Dolphin. I suppose I just needed to complain to make it work.

[heeyuck]

Got tired of waiting for the email and so I signed up under another username. Man, that interface is clunky. Maybe I'm just more used to the previous version and will adapt to this one (and hopefully this one will be streamlined some) but my initial impression is that it's a big step backwards.

[traces Around]

Man, that interface is clunky. Maybe I'm just more used to the previous version and will adapt to this one (and hopefully this one will be streamlined some) but my initial impression is that it's a big step backwards.

You likely will adapt to this one, as will many others that are put off at the moment.

I believe I also speak for many of the other beta testers when I say that the interface felt really strange at first. It took about a week to get used to it but once I did going back to MF was more difficult than the initial switch to Shuffle iT.

There are certainly a few things that can be fixed and should be soon now that the transition issues are (hopefully permanently) sorted out, but please do give it a bit of time to figure out what is actually a problem and what is just unfamiliar.

[pingpongsam]

Got tired of waiting for the email and so I signed up under another username. Man, that interface is clunky. Maybe I'm just more used to the previous version and will adapt to this one (and hopefully this one will be streamlined some) but my initial impression is that it's a big step backwards.

While I see some big room for improvement what I'm not seeing is a bunch a crap I want removed like I did with the old interface. Getting this interface to look and work better is a matter of tweaking.

Am I missing how to read card text from the supply, that is, prior to buying and having it come into hand?

[blueblimp]

For me, the ShuffleIT interfaces exceeds some threshold of "is this fun to play with" that the Goko/MF interface didn't. So for all the problems it has currently (and it does have a lot of problems), I can imagine myself actually wanting to play this version, unlike with Goko/MF.

[Roadrunner7671]

People on reddit are not positive lol.

[Witherweaver]

For me, everything runs very smoothly.  No lag, no dropped games, nothing like Goko or Making Fun's debut.

[Roadrunner7671]

I made an account using my email that I was supposed to get an activation email for, so I might have 2 accounts under that email once I get an activation email. I was a little bummed that I had to be Roadrunner7672 but it's really not a big deal. As for gameplay, I was fine with it. But I can see why other people might not like it. I'm used to constantly checking the game log, which is necessary in this new Dominion Online. More casual players might not be. I think this explains why people on the forum like it and people on reddit don't. We're hardcore Dominion players, and people on reddit are creampuffs (I'm looking at you, jsh and Limetime!). Overall I think it's about on par with Making Fun as is.

[singletee]

Am I missing how to read card text from the supply, that is, prior to buying and having it come into hand?

Right-click the card.

[theory]

People on reddit are not positive lol.

I think it's just that one guy you were arguing with that has some sort of mental malfunction. 

PS: As a fun game, by the way, any time you see one of those people, click through their history and see how long it takes until you find their pro-Trump posts.

[Roadrunner7671]

People on reddit are not positive lol.

I think it's just that one guy you were arguing with that has some sort of mental malfunction. 

PS: As a fun game, by the way, any time you see one of those people, click through their history and see how long it takes until you find their pro-Trump posts.

Ha ha, I actually did that!

[NickDanger]

Hmmm... just played a game against a bot. It used a Chapel to trash 3 Provinces... I think there is a slight problem here.

[gkrieg13]

Hmmm... just played a game against a bot. It used a Chapel to trash 3 Provinces... I think there is a slight problem here.

Ya the AI isn't really on the top of their priority list quite yet.

[heeyuck]

One thing I think the Making Fun implementation did very well was make every action intuitive. From the "aura" around cards telling you where they'd go at a click to the clear buttons for actions, it was easy to play repetitively. This one is a little less clear, and the buttons aren't always in logical places (why is the "end turn" button a window over? for example). I also liked being able to look through the trash, and see clearly at a glance what durations are in play by my opponent.

I do like the undo button, as misclicks got me quite a few times in the MF version.

Is there any way to see one's stats? Even just W/L knowing that rankings will come when there's more data.

[popsofctown]

unintuitive things are pretty minor to me since I'll learn them and use them a million times eventually.

Ergonomics, that's different, I'd like the topdeck button to be larger.

[Dingan]

My 2 cents after playing 5 games:
Seems like a good product.  Not perfect, but is enjoyable.  My first impression with MF was "WTF, I waited 2 years for an Oregon Trail - style 90's desktop app that required re-installs every week!?  "  But in no way is that my first impression here.  I see quite a bit of room for improvement, but overall pretty slick in a lot of ways.

Bads:
- The trash is a bit painful to parse through
- I don't see a way to view Tavern mat
- I haven't played with Durations, Island, Prince, etc. yet, but heard they're invisible
- I only see Trusty Steed, no other Prizes
- I feel I'm reading through the log way more than I did with MF.  It's like, things happen but I don't see them happen right away; I'm often left doing the detective work through the log after the fact.
- Kinda hard to tell what I'm doing with Travellers (like if I'm exchanging them or keeping them)
- Auto-playing treasures when you have Coppers and you can afford 1 or more Grand Markets plays the Coppers -- so you then cannot buy a GM.

Goods:
+ UNDO!!!!!!!!
+ I don't have to top-deck my cards in a certain order when I play Oracle.  For that matter, I get the feeling that whenever I need to make a decision in which my choice doesn't matter, it chooses for me.  I like that.
+ I don't have to click "don't trash" a gazillion times after I've played a gazillion Urchins
+ It's just a tab in my browser, so I can do other stuff (in other browser tabs) at the same time, like when my opponent is slow.  And I can still have the Dominion tab open.  I wonder if I could have multiple Dominion tabs open at the same time (like with multiple bots)... *goes and tries it*
+ probably other things that I'm not remembering right now

But, minor details.  It's a good product.

[heeyuck]

Just some thoughts for potential improvements...

When forced to discard, half my own cards are covered (the words). Now I'm familiar with most cards, but not everyone is, and the 2nd edition cards from base and intrigue are still pretty new to me, so that seems annoying. As well, the dialogue box always pops up in the middle of the board. There's plenty of room to move things so that it's still prominent but not in the middle of my analysis. And, with tournament, I've found I can't look and see what's available in the prize pile (as well as what's been taken) at any time. Overall, my opponents moves still seem very mysterious--I'm always having to go to the dialogue box when I feel they could be more obvious in real time.

[kieranmillar]

- I don't see a way to view Tavern mat
- I haven't played with Durations, Island, Prince, etc. yet, but heard they're invisible

These are viewable by hovering your mouse over the player's name/VP count area. If there are any cards out it shows up in the log window when you do this.

[singletee]

Just some thoughts for potential improvements...

When forced to discard, half my own cards are covered (the words). Now I'm familiar with most cards, but not everyone is, and the 2nd edition cards from base and intrigue are still pretty new to me, so that seems annoying. As well, the dialogue box always pops up in the middle of the board. There's plenty of room to move things so that it's still prominent but not in the middle of my analysis. And, with tournament, I've found I can't look and see what's available in the prize pile (as well as what's been taken) at any time. Overall, my opponents moves still seem very mysterious--I'm always having to go to the dialogue box when I feel they could be more obvious in real time.

Go to the Options tab and change "Move kingdom and play area" to "No". That will lock the kingdom cards in place, so you may prefer it.

Improvements in animation are planned in order to make things more clear. I encourage you to visit the Shuffle iT forums to give them any suggestions you might have.

[Kirian]

People on reddit are not positive lol.

...about anything, ever.  In unrelated news, water is wet, the sun is hot, and baseball is boring.

[Awaclus]

People on reddit are not positive lol.

As expected of Reddit!

[Watno]

Got tired of waiting for the email and so I signed up under another username. Man, that interface is clunky. Maybe I'm just more used to the previous version and will adapt to this one (and hopefully this one will be streamlined some) but my initial impression is that it's a big step backwards.

While I see some big room for improvement what I'm not seeing is a bunch a crap I want removed like I did with the old interface. Getting this interface to look and work better is a matter of tweaking.

Am I missing how to read card text from the supply, that is, prior to buying and having it come into hand?

Right clicking, which doesn't help you on iPad I'm afraid. A better solution for this is being worked on,  as well as a dedicated iPad app further down the line.

[pingpongsam]

Got tired of waiting for the email and so I signed up under another username. Man, that interface is clunky. Maybe I'm just more used to the previous version and will adapt to this one (and hopefully this one will be streamlined some) but my initial impression is that it's a big step backwards.

While I see some big room for improvement what I'm not seeing is a bunch a crap I want removed like I did with the old interface. Getting this interface to look and work better is a matter of tweaking.

Am I missing how to read card text from the supply, that is, prior to buying and having it come into hand?

Right clicking, which doesn't help you on iPad I'm afraid. A better solution for this is being worked on,  as well as a dedicated iPad app further down the line.

Thanks. I understood an app was forthcoming so the current product seems more than acceptable. I consider it mostly a demo.

[Witherweaver]

- I don't see a way to view Tavern mat
- I haven't played with Durations, Island, Prince, etc. yet, but heard they're invisible

These are viewable by hovering your mouse over the player's name/VP count area. If there are any cards out it shows up in the log window when you do this.

It took me a while to get these, but after finding it I thought it was pretty cool.  I didn't check (because there weren't Tokens in the game I noticed it), but I assume tokens are on there too?

Regarding the previously brought up AI, yeah it's pretty bad.  They force lose by buying last Province quite a bit, and very often skip major Attacks (like Cursers) in games where they're basically necessary. 

[avorian]

Just managed to get a confirmation email out of the client, so that's better. Next I have to ponder whether I want to want to set up a paypal/bitcoin payment method.

[brianholwerda]

I still have not received an email to logon to the new site. I had purchased nearly all of the expansions on the old site. How do I go about getting logged on?

[Watno]

If you "owned"  nearly all sets on MF, you should have gotten your email already. Have you checked your spam folder?

It's also possible that you only got a subscription that doesn't carry over on MF. They switched to selling these at some point last year. In that case, the emailmight still be in the queue and should arrive at some point in the next 24 hours.

[brianholwerda]

If you "owned"  nearly all sets on MF, you should have gotten your email already. Have you checked your spam folder?

It's also possible that you only got a subscription that doesn't carry over on MF. They switched to selling these at some point last year. In that case, the emailmight still be in the queue and should arrive at some point in the next 24 hours.

Yes, I checked spam. I also checked through all my deleted mail to make sure I didn't accidentally delete something. I don't have an email anywhere. I didn't have a subscription at MF. I had purchased nearly all of the expansions. Is there a way for an email to be resent?

[NoMoreFun]

"Look through the discard pile" (for Scavenger, Harbinger) has a lot of room for improvement. The cards aren't grouped (even though the log groups the cards) and only a small sliver of each card is shown. It took quite a long time to right click all of the cards.

Some kind of marker for Haunted Woods/Swamp Hag would also be helpful.

Also a glitch: I had sentry reveal a single card in my deck (an estate) and misclicked "confirm trashing" instead of clicking on it. I then requested an undo which was allowed, but then the card didn't show up below the text and I wasn't able to trash or discard it.

[Witherweaver]

I think the Traveler replacement interface could use some enhancement.  A "exchange all" or "exchange none" kind of button could be nice, and also it's not exactly obvious which of White/Black means that option is being selected.  In fact, why not have a single box that toggles between KEEP and EXCHANGE, instead of two boxes, where clicking either toggles the state of both boxes?  One box has entirely redundant information, and only adds to confusion.

[Mic Qsenoch]

In fact, why not have a single box that toggles between KEEP and EXCHANGE, instead of two boxes, where clicking either toggles the state of both boxes?  One box has entirely redundant information, and only adds to confusion.

It used to work that way, but other people found it confusing. Actually, with the single box format, some people wanted the box text "Exchange" or "Keep" to represent what would happen when you cleaned up, and some wanted the opposite! (i.e. you would click on a box that said "Exchange" to make the Traveller be exchanged, though the box would now read "Keep"). Part of the opposite desires came from people wanting consistency between the multiple Travellers interface and a single Traveller interface.

I agree that it should be more clear which of the two options is currently selected.

[Mic Qsenoch]

Also a glitch: I had sentry reveal a single card in my deck (an estate) and misclicked "confirm trashing" instead of clicking on it. I then requested an undo which was allowed, but then the card didn't show up below the text and I wasn't able to trash or discard it.

Yes, the undo is broken if you go back to the Sentry choice, and it's been reported on their forums. A workaround is to request an additional undo to go back before you've played the Sentry at all, then the interface will appear (I think).

[NoMoreFun]

Some "undo"s shouldn't require permission. Eg if I click "discard both" for hamlet then decide I only want to discard one, tehnically I haven't actually done anything yet.

[pingpongsam]

"Look through the discard pile" (for Scavenger, Harbinger) has a lot of room for improvement. The cards aren't grouped (even though the log groups the cards) and only a small sliver of each card is shown. It took quite a long time to right click all of the cards.

It's impossible on a mobile browser that lacks a right click. Harbinger/Vassal became fairly random quickly.

[Polk5440]

In fact, why not have a single box that toggles between KEEP and EXCHANGE, instead of two boxes, where clicking either toggles the state of both boxes?  One box has entirely redundant information, and only adds to confusion.

It used to work that way, but other people found it confusing. Actually, with the single box format, some people wanted the box text "Exchange" or "Keep" to represent what would happen when you cleaned up, and some wanted the opposite! (i.e. you would click on a box that said "Exchange" to make the Traveller be exchanged, though the box would now read "Keep"). Part of the opposite desires came from people wanting consistency between the multiple Travellers interface and a single Traveller interface.

I agree that it should be more clear which of the two options is currently selected.

I thought for sure the ambiguity problem would be solved with a change from toggle buttons to radio buttons. Yet, now we have ambiguous radio buttons. Sigh. Visuals really do matter to the UX.

[Witherweaver]

In fact, why not have a single box that toggles between KEEP and EXCHANGE, instead of two boxes, where clicking either toggles the state of both boxes?  One box has entirely redundant information, and only adds to confusion.

It used to work that way, but other people found it confusing. Actually, with the single box format, some people wanted the box text "Exchange" or "Keep" to represent what would happen when you cleaned up, and some wanted the opposite! (i.e. you would click on a box that said "Exchange" to make the Traveller be exchanged, though the box would now read "Keep"). Part of the opposite desires came from people wanting consistency between the multiple Travellers interface and a single Traveller interface.

I agree that it should be more clear which of the two options is currently selected.

I thought for sure the ambiguity problem would be solved with a change from toggle buttons to radio buttons. Yet, now we have ambiguous radio buttons. Sigh. Visuals really do matter to the UX.

Ah. Well, it's solvable.  Making Fun's wasn't super aesthetic, but it was pretty clear.

Is there a way to select autopreferences?  For example, you probably don't want to Exchange Warriors or Disciples after the first one.

[pingpongsam]

Got to play with a desktop browser on a 27" monitor and was pretty delighted with the game. Yes, there is room for improvement but this is worth subscribing to and fun to play. Considering 95% of my play time would be on a mobile device, though, I'm still waiting to see an app.

[Chris is me]

Tried it on my iPhone during lunch and it is surprisingly playable. Other than occasionally adjusting zoom levels to make various buttons visible, and not being able to read card text, you can totally use it for quick games. Obviously a proper mobile app would be preferred and would work more reliably.

[NoMoreFun]

I can't pick Mystic as a guess when I play a Mystic if the Mystic pile is empty. Not sure if other "name" cards are the same way.

I also couldn't pick Humble Castle (which I knew was on the top of my deck) as it wasn't in the supply and I couldn't find any "list of other cards".

Edit: But I could pick a Mystic from my hand to name Mystic

[pingpongsam]

So, there's no ranking at this time? Are game logs being saved to build a future ranking or will we all start at zero when/if ranking becomes a feature? How is matching working if there is no rank?

[Watno]

Matching currently uses ratings from MF, and game results are being recorded.

[Wrobbe]

I had 2 accounts on the MF server, one paid and one free.  I received an email yesterday for the free one but have yet to receive a link I can use for the account on which I paid lots of money for the expansions.  Is anyone else out there still waiting for their email?  Going through withdrawal....

[pingpongsam]

I can't pick Mystic as a guess when I play a Mystic if the Mystic pile is empty. Not sure if other "name" cards are the same way.

I also couldn't pick Humble Castle (which I knew was on the top of my deck) as it wasn't in the supply and I couldn't find any "list of other cards".

Edit: But I could pick a Mystic from my hand to name Mystic

Yep, same issue with Shelters. Pretty infuriating to have a Mystic string thwarted by a known top card you can't pick.

[pingpongsam]

I can't pick Mystic as a guess when I play a Mystic if the Mystic pile is empty. Not sure if other "name" cards are the same way.

I also couldn't pick Humble Castle (which I knew was on the top of my deck) as it wasn't in the supply and I couldn't find any "list of other cards".

Edit: But I could pick a Mystic from my hand to name Mystic

Yep, same issue with Shelters. Pretty infuriating to have a Mystic string thwarted by a known top card you can't pick.

My guess is this will be an issue with split piles and Knights and other things I haven't thought of yet.

[Watno]

I had 2 accounts on the MF server, one paid and one free.  I received an email yesterday for the free one but have yet to receive a link I can use for the account on which I paid lots of money for the expansions.  Is anyone else out there still waiting for their email?  Going through withdrawal....

Check you spam folder

[Razzishi]

For the most part, I like the ShuffleIt interface far more than Goko's.  I think I played one game on Making Fun before determining it wasn't actually an improvement over Goko.  There are a couple of things that bother me beyond the bugs (like naming cards) that still need to be squashed.

First, the familiar cards concept, while an interesting idea, needs to be brought to the attention of people.  I am getting absolutely sick of playing every game with the same base cards, especially Chapel.  Chapel just stops being interesting when your last 6 games have also had it.  I personally marked everything as familiar because I don't want to be gently led into all the cards that have been released since Hinterlands (the last set on Isotropic).  If people aren't actively marking cards as familiar, the feature is very very annoying to people like me.  I think maybe it's better on Good Match than Quick Match, but if that's the case it's not very clear, and I'm worried since I didn't play on Goko/MF that Good Match will be matching me with mainly newbs and I won't get to see decent players actually using all the new cards. 

Second, on a more minor note, I don't like the Ruins being grouped in with the kingdom cards.  It just doesn't feel right.  It feels like it should be next to the curse pile.  Maybe that's not an option if you want to keep it as the same size as the other kingdom cards given that it's a mixed pile and theoretically people might want to buy Ruined Market, but it just doesn't look right.

Of course, there's a lot more that needs to be done that I alluded to in my couple of posts on the ShuffleIt forums.  There needs to be a ranking system.  The game needs to be completely playable, including being able to name any card you want.  You need to be able to see your journey token.  The trash needs to be easier to access.  The selection of a card from your discard (like with Scavenger) needs to be made easier; it's borderline impossible to tell which card is which since they aren't sorted.  There's other things that you already know about from others (multiple Traveller exchanges, poor tavern mat access).  I only subscribed for a month to start since I'm not really sure I want to invest long-term (especially given my job that's going to ramp up the next few months) when I don't know what the release schedule is for all the features that will make the game much more enjoyable overall.  As it stands, I think took probably 3 weeks to many to start, because I'm simply frustrated now that the novelty has worn off and there's other things I can do while I wait for ratings, better matchmaking and user familiarities, and functional fixes.

[Witherweaver]

Reading the shuffle it forums is weird.. like almost everything people are criticizing are things that we here have been talking about as desirable, and things they say they want are things most of us here think are bad.  I can almost tell who is an f.ds member and who isn't without looking at usernames.

[pingpongsam]

Reading the shuffle it forums is weird.. like almost everything people are criticizing are things that we here have been talking about as desirable, and things they say they want are things most of us here think are bad.  I can almost tell who is an f.ds member and who isn't without looking at usernames.

Agreed. Here at f.ds we've gone through 4 iterations of online client so we tend to understand why things are the way they are. At some point a FAQ should probably be rendered that spells out some of the more commonly criticized aspects so that some understanding is had of the reasoning behind them.

[Limetime]

Reading the shuffle it forums is weird.. like almost everything people are criticizing are things that we here have been talking about as desirable, and things they say they want are things most of us here think are bad.  I can almost tell who is an f.ds member and who isn't without looking at usernames.

Agreed. Here at f.ds we've gone through 4 iterations of online client so we tend to understand why things are the way they are. At some point a FAQ should probably be rendered that spells out some of the more commonly criticized aspects so that some understanding is had of the reasoning behind them.

An unofficial FAQ already exists. http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1100.0

[werothegreat]

Reading the shuffle it forums is weird.. like almost everything people are criticizing are things that we here have been talking about as desirable, and things they say they want are things most of us here think are bad.  I can almost tell who is an f.ds member and who isn't without looking at usernames.

I think the main problem is that, while Stef and SCSN certainly know their Dominion, and seem to have implemented almost everything correctly, the graphical design is lacking.  The log on the side should be optional, not mandatory.  I should be able to follow everything going on in the game simply by paying attention to the board.

[AdrianHealey]

For what it's worth: Although the product is clearly not done, I *feel* the improvement, every time I log in.

Don't loose faith, guys. A year from now, all of these complaints will be dust in the wind.

[Dylan32]

Reading the shuffle it forums is weird.. like almost everything people are criticizing are things that we here have been talking about as desirable, and things they say they want are things most of us here think are bad.  I can almost tell who is an f.ds member and who isn't without looking at usernames.

I think the main problem is that, while Stef and SCSN certainly know their Dominion, and seem to have implemented almost everything correctly, the graphical design is lacking.  The log on the side should be optional, not mandatory.  I should be able to follow everything going on in the game simply by paying attention to the board.

I have no idea, but I would guess the log is staying put until they implement a graphical trash pile rather than only being a block of card names at the top of the log at least.

[ThetaSigma12]

For what it's worth: Although the product is clearly not done, I *feel* the improvement, every time I log in.

Don't loose faith, guys. A year from now, all of these complaints will be dust in the wind.

This! Seriously, this should be just as good as MF my April if this keeps up. It's been less than a week and they have fixed so much that was brought up.

[Witherweaver]

Reading the shuffle it forums is weird.. like almost everything people are criticizing are things that we here have been talking about as desirable, and things they say they want are things most of us here think are bad.  I can almost tell who is an f.ds member and who isn't without looking at usernames.

I think the main problem is that, while Stef and SCSN certainly know their Dominion, and seem to have implemented almost everything correctly, the graphical design is lacking.  The log on the side should be optional, not mandatory.  I should be able to follow everything going on in the game simply by paying attention to the board.

I guess, but it seems like a log is the best way to follow everything going on in the game.  If I have a choice between reading text and watching card-shaoed graphics move around my screen, I choose text.

[werothegreat]

Reading the shuffle it forums is weird.. like almost everything people are criticizing are things that we here have been talking about as desirable, and things they say they want are things most of us here think are bad.  I can almost tell who is an f.ds member and who isn't without looking at usernames.

I think the main problem is that, while Stef and SCSN certainly know their Dominion, and seem to have implemented almost everything correctly, the graphical design is lacking.  The log on the side should be optional, not mandatory.  I should be able to follow everything going on in the game simply by paying attention to the board.

I guess, but it seems like a log is the best way to follow everything going on in the game.  If I have a choice between reading text and watching card-shaoed graphics move around my screen, I choose text.

Well, you're in a minority.  If you want Dominion Online to survive, it needs to make money.  In order to make money, it needs to appeal to more casual gamers as well, which involves primarily making everything easy to follow without having to look at the log, and apparently also requires a mobile app.

[blueblimp]

I don't think any UI can make it possible to follow everything by looking at the board only. When I play Dominion IRL (which admittedly is not super often), staring at what other players are doing with their hands is not enough. There also needs to be some talking happening. The log just substitutes for the talking.

[Dylan32]

Reading the shuffle it forums is weird.. like almost everything people are criticizing are things that we here have been talking about as desirable, and things they say they want are things most of us here think are bad.  I can almost tell who is an f.ds member and who isn't without looking at usernames.

I think the main problem is that, while Stef and SCSN certainly know their Dominion, and seem to have implemented almost everything correctly, the graphical design is lacking.  The log on the side should be optional, not mandatory.  I should be able to follow everything going on in the game simply by paying attention to the board.

I guess, but it seems like a log is the best way to follow everything going on in the game.  If I have a choice between reading text and watching card-shaoed graphics move around my screen, I choose text.

Well, you're in a minority.  If you want Dominion Online to survive, it needs to make money.  In order to make money, it needs to appeal to more casual gamers as well, which involves primarily making everything easy to follow without having to look at the log, and apparently also requires a mobile app.

I would be willing to bet that if they made it so that literally everything was visible without using a log, there would be people who would start to complain that the UI is too cluttered or too hard to read on mobile devices or similar complaints.  I tend to not watch the log too much, but it doesn't bother me having it there, at least on a full-size screen at least.

[NoMoreFun]

Wasn't one of the promised features different interfaces depending on how you liked to play?

I was imagining everything from Text Based to pretty animations being options.

[werothegreat]

Wasn't one of the promised features different interfaces depending on how you liked to play?

I was imagining everything from Text Based to pretty animations being options.

A lot of stuff was promised.

[NoMoreFun]

It's not clear how to choose the order to top deck cards with Ghost Ship. I'm playing a game with Ghost Ship, Native Village and Herald and there's no indication at all on how to get it right.

[Limetime]

Quick note not much was promised by release.

[popsofctown]

What is the procedure for bug reports? I just broke the game by playing Overlord as an Outpost.

[Limetime]

Post it on their forum.

[popsofctown]

Ah, but that would require their activation emails to work.

[jsh357]

Ah, but that would require their activation emails to work.

Go to the Shuffleit discord channel and report it there:
https://discord.gg/tzWvk

[Watno]

It's not clear how to choose the order to top deck cards with Ghost Ship. I'm playing a game with Ghost Ship, Native Village and Herald and there's no indication at all on how to get it right.

They go onto the deck in the order you click them.

[-Stef-]

First, the familiar cards concept, while an interesting idea, needs to be brought to the attention of people.  I am getting absolutely sick of playing every game with the same base cards, especially Chapel.  Chapel just stops being interesting when your last 6 games have also had it.  I personally marked everything as familiar because I don't want to be gently led into all the cards that have been released since Hinterlands (the last set on Isotropic).  If people aren't actively marking cards as familiar, the feature is very very annoying to people like me.  I think maybe it's better on Good Match than Quick Match, but if that's the case it's not very clear, and I'm worried since I didn't play on Goko/MF that Good Match will be matching me with mainly newbs and I won't get to see decent players actually using all the new cards. 

We're trying to improve here. Up until the last release (~20 hours ago) the matcher ignored familiar sets (even on good match), but now it is:

The matcher counts the number of cards you have both subscribed to and marked as familiar. This set is called your "expected" set.

For a possible candidate, it counts what percentage of your expected sets are marked as familiar by them. A bonus is added to this of 10% times their setting of "max unfamiliar cards".
If the resulting percentage is less then 80%, you will not consider them a good match.


I haven't really documented this yet because it's very likely to change again in the near future, and to become user-configurable later on.

[AdrianHealey]

I don't mind the log, but I did like in MF that I never needed the log.

[-Stef-]

I don't mind the log, but I did like in MF that I never needed the log.

Having the game playable without the log is certainly on my wishlist as well.
Unfortunately, just removing it now won't improve the situation. We need to fix quite a number of other things first.

[AdrianHealey]

I don't mind the log, but I did like in MF that I never needed the log.

Having the game playable without the log is certainly on my wishlist as well.
Unfortunately, just removing it now won't improve the situation. We need to fix quite a number of other things first.

I completely understand. Don't worry, I am team Shuffle It. (But I do like your comments such as this. People like to be acknowledged!)

I have every faith that you'll manage. Call me a satisfied transitioning customer.

[werothegreat]

Oh, don't get rid of the log. I'm not saying get rid of it. I'm just saying be something that's there if I want to check something, rather than something I need to be staring at the entire time.

[AdrianHealey]

As long as we are mentioning features, eitehr one of these wouldw work:

- The option to ban a card
- The option that I automatically resign when rebuild is on the board
- The option that I automatically resign when someone buys rebuild

[LaLight]

As long as we are mentioning features, eitehr one of these wouldw work:

- The option to ban a card
- The option that I automatically resign when rebuild is on the board
- The option that I automatically resign when someone buys rebuild

Shoudn't the second include the third?

[Rabid]

I don't think any UI can make it possible to follow everything by looking at the board only. When I play Dominion IRL (which admittedly is not super often), staring at what other players are doing with their hands is not enough. There also needs to be some talking happening. The log just substitutes for the talking.

Maybe audio could be used more in game?
Dominion has a lot going on, so trying to display it all clearly on screen is a challenge.
One way to transmit more data would be to switch some of the load to audio.

[Watno]

How about using text-to-speech and have the log read to players?

[Witherweaver]

I don't think any UI can make it possible to follow everything by looking at the board only. When I play Dominion IRL (which admittedly is not super often), staring at what other players are doing with their hands is not enough. There also needs to be some talking happening. The log just substitutes for the talking.

Maybe audio could be used more in game?
Dominion has a lot going on, so trying to display it all clearly on screen is a challenge.
One way to transmit more data would be to switch some of the load to audio.

Eww.. I would personally hate this.  I guess there could be sounds for different effects... Draw, Trash, playing an Attack, Gaining cards.  It would have to be very subtle, though, I think. 

I generally immediately turn all sound off (music and effects) for any kind of game that isn't full and immersive, like those on a console (e.g., PS4).

[pingpongsam]

I never, ever play with audio on anything. Also, this is horrible for people who maybe want to play at night when others are asleep or for deaf people, etc. Personally, I like a permanent log but I can understand people not wanting to sacrifice screen space for it. It definitely needs to be a thing I can fix in place for permanent space once finalized.

[werothegreat]

As long as we are mentioning features, eitehr one of these wouldw work:

- The option to ban a card
- The option that I automatically resign when rebuild is on the board
- The option that I automatically resign when someone buys rebuild

Shoudn't the second include the third?

Black Market.

[Rabid]

I never, ever play with audio on anything. Also, this is horrible for people who maybe want to play at night when others are asleep or for deaf people, etc. Personally, I like a permanent log but I can understand people not wanting to sacrifice screen space for it. It definitely needs to be a thing I can fix in place for permanent space once finalized.

How can adding an option that can be turned off be:
"this is horrible for people who maybe want to play at night when others are asleep or for deaf people, etc"

I would probably play without sound as well, I played Goko with no music, no sound effects. Just thinking of options that might be helpful to some of the players.

[pingpongsam]

I never, ever play with audio on anything. Also, this is horrible for people who maybe want to play at night when others are asleep or for deaf people, etc. Personally, I like a permanent log but I can understand people not wanting to sacrifice screen space for it. It definitely needs to be a thing I can fix in place for permanent space once finalized.

How can adding an option that can be turned off be:
"this is horrible for people who maybe want to play at night when others are asleep or for deaf people, etc"

I would probably play without sound as well, I played Goko with no music, no sound effects. Just thinking of options that might be helpful to some of the players.

The horrible part would substituting audio cues for graphical or logged cues so that the player must have audio in order to follow the game state with any real accuracy.

[Rabid]

Ah I see, thanks for the clarification.
My intent was additional audio, for those that don't like the log.
Not "we added audio so let's not bother with the log any more"
But I see that I wasn't clear about that.

[werothegreat]

Who's saying they don't like the log?  I like the log.  I just don't want to have to rely on it.

[Witherweaver]

Who's saying they don't like the log?  I like the log.  I just don't want to have to rely on it.

It's better than bad, it's good!

[Kirian]

I don't mind the log, but I did like in MF that I never needed the log.

Did you play with animations on or something?

As someone said above, the log takes the place of saying goes out loud during IRL play "I play a Village, then a Village, then Catacombs, yuck I'm discarding these three, another Catacombs.... etc."

[Chris is me]

I don't mind the log, but I did like in MF that I never needed the log.

Did you play with animations on or something?

As someone said above, the log takes the place of saying goes out loud during IRL play "I play a Village, then a Village, then Catacombs, yuck I'm discarding these three, another Catacombs.... etc."

That sort of text would be in the middle of the screen on MF. I liked that.

I usually used the log on MF, but on my phone the game was playable and easy to follow without it. That was nice. I hope someday this version gets to that level. They're clearly trying.

[pingpongsam]

They're clearly trying.

Which is really the difference between Shuffle iT and MF.

[AdrianHealey]

I don't mind the log, but I did like in MF that I never needed the log.

Did you play with animations on or something?

As someone said above, the log takes the place of saying goes out loud during IRL play "I play a Village, then a Village, then Catacombs, yuck I'm discarding these three, another Catacombs.... etc."

I had animations of or maybe at the fastest possible speed.

I know what the cards do. Why would I need to hear it?

[Cave-o-sapien]

Reading the shuffle it forums is weird.. like almost everything people are criticizing are things that we here have been talking about as desirable, and things they say they want are things most of us here think are bad.  I can almost tell who is an f.ds member and who isn't without looking at usernames.

I've noticed this as well. The tricky thing for the developers is making the app satisfy both populations.

"Sweet! This reminds me of playing on Isotropic!"

"Eww! This reminds me of playing on Isotropic!"

[werothegreat]

Reading the shuffle it forums is weird.. like almost everything people are criticizing are things that we here have been talking about as desirable, and things they say they want are things most of us here think are bad.  I can almost tell who is an f.ds member and who isn't without looking at usernames.

I've noticed this as well. The tricky thing for the developers is making the app satisfy both populations.

"Sweet! This reminds me of playing on Isotropic!"

"Eww! This reminds me of playing on Isotropic!"

See, but again, it seems like gearing it toward hardcore players is actively pushing away more casual players.  Like this thread: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1141.0

If you want Stef and SCSN to stay in business, they need to make money.
For them to make money, they need lots of subscribers.
The total active userbase of f.ds is not enough subscribers.

To that end, I think the interface should defer to the casual user where it can.  It would be great if you could toggle between "efficient" and "casual friendly", but what's more important is getting casual players playing.  You guys are going to play on Shuffle iT no matter what happens, you all love Dominion.  Casuals aren't going to play if they don't like it.  So maybe listen to their complaints and cater to them a little bit.

[Cave-o-sapien]

Reading the shuffle it forums is weird.. like almost everything people are criticizing are things that we here have been talking about as desirable, and things they say they want are things most of us here think are bad.  I can almost tell who is an f.ds member and who isn't without looking at usernames.

I've noticed this as well. The tricky thing for the developers is making the app satisfy both populations.

"Sweet! This reminds me of playing on Isotropic!"

"Eww! This reminds me of playing on Isotropic!"

See, but again, it seems like gearing it toward hardcore players is actively pushing away more casual players.  Like this thread: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1141.0

If you want Stef and SCSN to stay in business, they need to make money.
For them to make money, they need lots of subscribers.
The total active userbase of f.ds is not enough subscribers.

To that end, I think the interface should defer to the casual user where it can.  It would be great if you could toggle between "efficient" and "casual friendly", but what's more important is getting casual players playing.  You guys are going to play on Shuffle iT no matter what happens, you all love Dominion.  Casuals aren't going to play if they don't like it.  So maybe listen to their complaints and cater to them a little bit.

Yep. I think you and I are on exactly the same page here.

[Witherweaver]

Yeah, I think the suggestions coming out of that thread are pretty good.

[Razzishi]

You guys are going to play on Shuffle iT no matter what happens, you all love Dominion.  Casuals aren't going to play if they don't like it.  So maybe listen to their complaints and cater to them a little bit.

I may love Dominion, but I like Dominion as it was on Isotropic.  I stopped playing Goko when it was clear they weren't going to make it anything like that, and came back to try once on MF's client, which wasn't all that much different.  I just wasn't interested in paying to play Dominion on that kind of interface, especially not buying all the sets again.  And I definitely don't like Dominion enough to play a bunch of base set again and again (which is why I'm annoyed at how many Base cards seem to be in game with most people).  I care more about being able to play quickly and crisply, and against players of similar skill from whom I can potentially learn things.  Most people aren't like me, I understand that.  But my opinion is still valid.

What I failed to mention before that was brought back up was the promise of a pared-down interface.  That's something I'd definitely like to see, but certainly it shouldn't be a priority; fixing things that are broken is the priority.  Nevertheless, I was under the (perhaps greatly misguided) impression, based only on my own thoughts about how I would be doing this, that you'd first build a developer's interface version primarily for testing the game engine, and then build the graphical interface over top of that, while making the developer's interface available to players who for some reason might want to play that.  It might not even have been all that great to start, but it at least would have been in the minimalistic style of Isotropic's text interface that I had come to love and enjoy.  But if that's not how things actually turned out, then I guess it needs to be left on the back burner for a while.

I also was under the impression that Donald X played with Inheritance on some version of the new client, and yet it's not available when the client is released.  Did something in Empires break it, was that implementation completely separate from what you came up with later, or was it actually not implemented very well originally?

[Limetime]

I am not completely sure but i think the reason inheritance and stash arnt implemented is messy dominion rules.(new shuffleing rule for stash)
Another reason is that stef has been overwhelmed by people who have had email troubles.

[Razzishi]

Going back through the discussion about the log reminded me that there's a lot that actually isn't in the log.  I'm of the opinion that the log (or at  least *some* log, if not the default one) should have the information to be able to reconstruct the entire game (although with some information hidden before the game ends, obviously).  Right now it doesn't tell you about people's choices with cards - at least, not all the time.  For instance, with Courtier, you don't know if they chose +1 action, +1 buy, or +$3.  Only the gain a gold creates a log event (as far as I can tell).  Similar things are true with Pawn.  You can tell what someone picks with Steward only if they didn't choose +$2; they probably did if you can't see, but they might have decided to draw from no cards for some reason (is there any actual good reason?).  When someone discards for Hamlet, you don't know from the log whether it's for an action or for a buy.  Thus, as you read through the log, you don't know how many actions, buys or coins someone has if it's due to cards with choice effects that have no other effect on the game, or in the case of Hamlet, no difference in effect between two options.  While the game will display the relevant information at the time to make necessary decisions, it's harder to analyze the log after the game.  This may not be a huge deal, but I'll point you back at my opinion in the second sentence of this paragraph.

Other things about the log:

When you top deck with Scheme (or Herbalist, or Walled Village, or something else in cleanup), it doesn't say what's being used to top deck the card.  While I'm not sure that it's relevant to know exactly which effect was used, it would be nice for clarity.

The non-action card revealed off Scrying Pool is listed first instead of the more obvious last.

Secret Passage always says "top deck" even if that's not where you put the card.

[Polk5440]

I also was under the impression that Donald X played with Inheritance on some version of the new client, and yet it's not available when the client is released.  Did something in Empires break it, was that implementation completely separate from what you came up with later, or was it actually not implemented very well originally?

I am wondering that, too.

Well if it does anything for you, I'd played with Inheritance on Stef's program before I played with it on MF's.

Does Stef's Inheritance actually work properly with Reserves?

I don't remember, and am not checking, but note that he had the advantage of starting the project knowing about the existence of all of the trickiest Dominion cards.

[pingpongsam]

I am seeing few to none of the Base cards and tons of new cards with new being defined as Dark Ages and newer. I'm getting tons of exposure to cards I've not played with. I'm not sure how Raz is getting a bunch of Base games.

[Razzishi]

Ok, I just played about 3 shuffles of a Page board always getting at least two of them, and was wondering where the hell my treasure hunters were when I apparently had been telling the game constantly that I wanted to keep them.  The multiple traveler dialog box is really, really, really, really bad.  Why would clicking on exchange, changing the coloring, cause it to go from being exchanged to being kept?  It literally makes no sense at all.  And this isn't even the first time I had multiple traveler turns.  The interface is so counter-intuitive, that I didn't even remember how it works a few days later.

[Razzishi]

I am seeing few to none of the Base cards and tons of new cards with new being defined as Dark Ages and newer. I'm getting tons of exposure to cards I've not played with. I'm not sure how Raz is getting a bunch of Base games.

As I've played a bit since my first post, I can say now it's definitely better than it was when I played back at the beginning of the week.  Perhaps people are discovering why they were getting Base-heavy games and managed to fix it.  I will note, however, that I had one game of about 10 that was very heavily weighted towards Base, so I think it's something that's still a process new players have to go through.

[Razzishi]

Oh, given that there's no way to access the log after the game screen is left, perhaps my rant about how useless the log is in recreating the game is rather moot at this point.  Nevertheless, I expect at some point that we will be able to have full access to our past games and be able to replay them, just like on the Prismata client.  While they're dealing with a simply deterministic game and Dominion has shuffling, shuffling is the only randomness (ok, Black Market, anything else?), so all you need to do is have each shuffle encoded into the log.  Getting such a fully comprehensive log would be a major project if it was not initially planned, but having played Prismata for a while, I'm really missing that whole ability to go back and luck at each game stage by stage.

[singletee]

Oh, given that there's no way to access the log after the game screen is left, perhaps my rant about how useless the log is in recreating the game is rather moot at this point.  Nevertheless, I expect at some point that we will be able to have full access to our past games and be able to replay them, just like on the Prismata client.  While they're dealing with a simply deterministic game and Dominion has shuffling, shuffling is the only randomness (ok, Black Market, anything else?), so all you need to do is have each shuffle encoded into the log.  Getting such a fully comprehensive log would be a major project if it was not initially planned, but having played Prismata for a while, I'm really missing that whole ability to go back and luck at each game stage by stage.

Good news, this feature is planned. Sometime. In fact you do not have to encode each shuffle into the log, just the initial random seed.

[Dingan]

So I just granted my own Undo whilst possessing my opponent.

[trazoM]

Ok, I just played about 3 shuffles of a Page board always getting at least two of them, and was wondering where the hell my treasure hunters were when I apparently had been telling the game constantly that I wanted to keep them.  The multiple traveler dialog box is really, really, really, really bad.  Why would clicking on exchange, changing the coloring, cause it to go from being exchanged to being kept?  It literally makes no sense at all.  And this isn't even the first time I had multiple traveler turns.  The interface is so counter-intuitive, that I didn't even remember how it works a few days later.

Well, thats a discussion we had before. Clicking on exchange OR Keep toggles the selection. The thing that happens in the current selection is marked, also the card you will get by keeping/exchanging is colored. I dont know how to make this more clear other than adding another tag saying "keep" or "exchange" between the two pictures.
€dit: Just noticed that there is a new thread of people trying to improve it: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php?topic=1030.msg2709#new

[AdrianHealey]

I think the traveller's thingy, as is, is superintuitive.

[Donald X.]

I also was under the impression that Donald X played with Inheritance on some version of the new client, and yet it's not available when the client is released.  Did something in Empires break it, was that implementation completely separate from what you came up with later, or was it actually not implemented very well originally?

I am wondering that, too.

Well if it does anything for you, I'd played with Inheritance on Stef's program before I played with it on MF's.

Does Stef's Inheritance actually work properly with Reserves?

I don't remember, and am not checking, but note that he had the advantage of starting the project knowing about the existence of all of the trickiest Dominion cards.

I did play with Inheritance on their system in March; I wasn't lying, neither was I in error.

You will have to do your own speculation as to why it isn't on their system now; I am not doing that speculation for you. You could ask them, but they are Busy, doing things like getting Inheritance working.

[werothegreat]

but they are Busy

tee em

[Razzishi]

I think the traveller's thingy, as is, is superintuitive.

You mean how I can click on exchange like I want to exchange them, and the game will think that I want to keep them because the parity of clicks on that card is odd?  Why should the number of times I click matter?  What should matter is *where* I click.  The color scheme is of no help at all in figuring out which one is active; the only way to really know is to know that they default to "exchange".  Factorio had this issue with the automatic/manual train toggle, and decided to use a slider whose ends were labeled.  You could also put a check mark next to the one that will be done.  Or you could just just, you know, have the same interface regardless of how many travelers there are.  The only time order matters that I'm aware of is if you need to return one in order for there to be one of ones you're going to upgrade to, so just doing them in order from most traveled to least will always be optimal.  I don't think your decision will ever need to depend on knowing exactly how many of each you have available to upgrade; the decision is generally going to be based on how many total you have of each in your deck, which is generally not something the game will be able to show you and you need to keep track of yourself.  If it really matters, the interface could allow you to be able to look at all the cards you've played this turn.

[AdrianHealey]

I think the traveller's thingy, as is, is superintuitive.

You mean how I can click on exchange like I want to exchange them, and the game will think that I want to keep them because the parity of clicks on that card is odd?  Why should the number of times I click matter?  What should matter is *where* I click.  The color scheme is of no help at all in figuring out which one is active; the only way to really know is to know that they default to "exchange".  Factorio had this issue with the automatic/manual train toggle, and decided to use a slider whose ends were labeled.  You could also put a check mark next to the one that will be done.  Or you could just just, you know, have the same interface regardless of how many travelers there are.  The only time order matters that I'm aware of is if you need to return one in order for there to be one of ones you're going to upgrade to, so just doing them in order from most traveled to least will always be optimal.  I don't think your decision will ever need to depend on knowing exactly how many of each you have available to upgrade; the decision is generally going to be based on how many total you have of each in your deck, which is generally not something the game will be able to show you and you need to keep track of yourself.  If it really matters, the interface could allow you to be able to look at all the cards you've played this turn.

I have no idea how it works in terms of pressing keep and exchange.

All I know is this: I have never had an issue during the game. I do know this: what's black and grey is the thing that doesn't happen and the card that is shiny and colorful is the card that will end up in your discard. I mean: what more do you want? Shiny things = things that happen. Dark and grey = things that don't happen.

[ThetaSigma12]

I think it's intuitive, just not at first glance, and certainly not after MF.

People just see a button that says "Exchange", and they think they need to click it to exchange travellers. This would make sense, especially after MF implemented it that way. However, if you actually look at the UI it's clear.

[SCSN]

In the next release, clicking an already selected option will no longer toggle the selection.

[allanfieldhouse]

So I just granted my own Undo whilst possessing my opponent.

Working as intended, right? You make all decisions for your opponent according to the card. Plus you get to make your own decisions too.

[SCSN]

I also was under the impression that Donald X played with Inheritance on some version of the new client, and yet it's not available when the client is released.  Did something in Empires break it, was that implementation completely separate from what you came up with later, or was it actually not implemented very well originally?

I am wondering that, too.

Well if it does anything for you, I'd played with Inheritance on Stef's program before I played with it on MF's.

Does Stef's Inheritance actually work properly with Reserves?

I don't remember, and am not checking, but note that he had the advantage of starting the project knowing about the existence of all of the trickiest Dominion cards.

I did play with Inheritance on their system in March; I wasn't lying, neither was I in error.

You will have to do your own speculation as to why it isn't on their system now; I am not doing that speculation for you. You could ask them, but they are Busy, doing things like getting Inheritance working.

The old implementation didn't survive a particular rewrite, and it has yet to be fully re-implemented. There isn't any particular problem other than the age old "too much to do in too little time".

[SirPeebles]

How do I change the number of players for quick/good match?

[Rabid]

I don't think you can.

[-Stef-]

How do I change the number of players for quick/good match?

You don't, and it isn't planned either (at least not short term).
Our plan is to improve the usefulness of the 'tables' to make it easier to find 3+ player matches.

[NoMoreFun]

Are 5 and 6 player games meant to have the normal 2/3/4 player number of treasures? I thought you used double the amount

[SirPeebles]

How do I change the number of players for quick/good match?

You don't, and it isn't planned either (at least not short term).
Our plan is to improve the usefulness of the 'tables' to make it easier to find 3+ player matches.

Why the distinction? Is matching with 3+ players significantly more difficult?

[popsofctown]

You can Disciple a soldier to make someone discard down to three.

[drsteelhammer]

You can Disciple a soldier to make someone discard down to three.

Good thing they got that right!

[werothegreat]

You can Disciple a soldier to make someone discard down to three.

Good thing they got that right!

In MF's Adventures beta, doing that would gain you an extra Soldier

[popsofctown]

Oh, 4 or more, not more than four.  Tricky Minion!

[pingpongsam]

Well, I went ahead and spent the reasonable upcharge to get the gold subscription. I was just getting used to the 2nd edition cards and now I have Empires and Adventures neither of which have ever played in any format. Talk about a learning curve!

[Kirian]

Well, I went ahead and spent the reasonable upcharge to get the gold subscription. I was just getting used to the 2nd edition cards and now I have Empires and Adventures neither of which have ever played in any format. Talk about a learning curve!

Adventures alone is a big learning curve.  Empires has been crazy.

I played an Alms/Villa game yesterday.  Shenanigans were had.

[Dingan]

If I close out my browser tab during my opponent's turn, where I know for a fact that that will be the last turn, does the game end right then and I lose?  Or does my opponent get to finish their turn?  And then what does the game report page thingy look like to them?  I'm wondering because there was a game where I was up by like 40 VP and my opponent bought the last Province on their turn, and they were super slow and I really wanted to leave and do something else but didn't want to have to forfeit.  Ended up sitting there for like 5 minutes.

EDIT: Err, maybe they 3-piled during their action phase, or something, can't remember -- same question would apply

[popsofctown]

I wish the URL didn't contain games so I would have a chance of playing this through the filter at work.

[Awaclus]

I wish the URL didn't contain games so I would have a chance of playing this through the filter at work.

Have you tried using a VPN?

[Seprix]

I wish the URL didn't contain games so I would have a chance of playing this through the filter at work.

Have you tried using a VPN?

I don't think it's worth risking getting fired and losing your major source of income for a couple of games of Dominion.

[pingpongsam]

I wish the URL didn't contain games so I would have a chance of playing this through the filter at work.

Have you tried using a VPN?

I don't think it's worth risking getting fired and losing your major source of income for a couple of games of Dominion.

Poser

[Awaclus]

I don't think it's worth risking getting fired and losing your major source of income for a couple of games of Dominion.

I mean, I used a VPN to get around the filter at the military to reach torrent sites while totally hoping to have a career with the military, so that was a thing.

[pyrosis]

I'm sure this has been answered already but I looked through and didn't see it - if we had previously paid for the cards on goko/making fun - do we get any credit towards a dominion 2017 subscription and if so how do we claim it? thanks so much

-tavis

[Watno]

Yes. You get one year of free subscription to the sets you had.
You should have received an email about that (titled Dominion Online - Welcome to 2017). If you can't find it, check your spam folder. If you still can't find it, PM Stef (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=1091) and he will help you.

[pyrosis]

OK thanks, I could not locate the email so I did PM stef, thanks so much I appreciate you guys.

[pyrosis]

I did find the email but the link just takes me to a picture of the overgrown estate and nothing further happens. I think its because I already had created an account with that username/email address before I found the link in the email? Is there a solution to this? Thanks so much

[Watno]

Reload the page while holding the Control key.
If that doesn't help, try a different browser (though that is likely not the issue if you previously managed to make an account)

[popsofctown]

Evading a filter is categorically different from just observing that the filter hasn't caught something and doing it.  Yeah.

[NoMoreFun]

Could the waiting time for "pretend to think" on gladiator be changed to time out after a few seconds?

[NoMoreFun]

Autoplay plays coppers when Grand Market is in the supply and the other treasures produce at least $6

[LaLight]

Autoplay plays coppers when Grand Market is in the supply and the other treasures produce at least $6

This is a known issue and will be worked on.

[iamsparticus]

Match making is broken.

1. I've been put into games through the good match feature that are consistent almost entirely of base set. I think this is because the person I was playing only had base set as "familiar cards", so a max of 3 unfamiliar cards were chosen. Clearly there is a problem if I am having to play people in primarily base set games. Simple solution, get rid of the familiar cards list entirely. If people want to not play with cards they don't know (own) they can check that as an option.
2. What is a quick match, what is a good match? This isn't explained. It should be showed through a pop up when you hover over the button at the least. The only thing I can guess at is that good match doesn't provide you with a bot match?
3. The tables are abysmal. There are far too many. They don't host enough players for a tournament. You can't really see any info about the players at the table or why you'd want to join one vs. the other.
4. Playing with a friend is ridiculous, because I have to do so through a table. When the system put me at a table with my friend, there were other people there. We ended up not playing against each other.
5. Matchmaking now has a ranking system, but I cannot see my ranking. Any info on this?
6. When I leave a table, it shouldn't put me to the new table page, it should put me back at the tables page.
7. When I hit ready on a table with no other players (in attempt to indicate that I am ready for a match with a human opponent if they were to arrive) I instead get put into a match with a bot. I don't want a match with a bot. Is there an option to stop this from happening? I never want a match with a bot.

I ideally want a system where I have parameters for a good match by my standards (similar ratings, will use the full array of cards from whoever owns more) through clicking a button and getting paired up. Alternatively, it would be fine to have people search for their own games through going through tables, but that doesn't work when there are a ton of tables which only contain 1 person (and through my experience often contain someone that is AFK). It doesn't work when you know nothing about the potential match that you are getting into other than the person's name (no rating, no list of cards, no gameplay preferences etc.) If we are to sort ourselves into games, we need info to do so properly.

The actual gameplay product is fine, though I am often lost as to what just happened without looking at the log. The matchmaking is the issue that needs to be fixed the most.

Also, why is there no option to stay logged in?

[pingpongsam]

Not having any issues with Good Match. I hate the tables thing too. If a friend is online and not at a table there is no way to communicate. So it's either use the terrible tables thing or nothing at all. The upside is I am making all kinds of friends playing with people found by Good Match and getting to play with cards that are decidedly not Base only. So, I am hopeful the social aspect improves and having all these friends pays off big.

[Beyond Awesome]

Almost always good match games for me includes all the expansions. With that said, I think the matching system/lobby thing needs a lot of work. It's like you took both of Goko's/MF's systems and somehow made them worse.

[kieranmillar]

While the tables system is currently really bad, there are a couple of issues that have already been fixed since the initial release:

1) Good match now only matches you with someone who's familiar cards are at least 80% similar to yours (or some number like that).

2) The gazillion tables with people sitting at them who never respond has been fixed. There was something wrong with table creation causing people to be stuck hosting a table that they actually were not present at.


Some other quick points:

I believe there is a ranking system but it currently can't be seen, it's just going on in the background. If you want to make a table only friends can join, you can set the min and max rating differences both to zero, then only friends can join your table (they are always exempt from that restriction)

If everyone at the table marks that they are ready, the game will start but if you have less than the minimum number of players then bots will fill in all of the missing slots to bring you up to the minimum player requirement. This is how you make custom bot games at the moment.

[RevanFan]

I haven't seen much of this thread, and I really don't have time at present to read through it all.

Does anyone know if they've said anything about possibly implementing the removed cards from Base and Intrigue after most of their to-do list is done and the dust has settled? I doubt they will, personally, but I'm one of those people who is a completionist, and the removed cards did exist previously.

Of course the priority in the cards department should be Inheritance and Stash. And then any bug fixes or missing features, etc.

Also... thank you so much to the devs for allowing more than 2 events/landmarks. Made my day when I saw that.

[Brandonboards]

End of March 2017 and still no Android app when will we get it?

[pingpongsam]

I haven't seen much of this thread, and I really don't have time at present to read through it all.

Does anyone know if they've said anything about possibly implementing the removed cards from Base and Intrigue after most of their to-do list is done and the dust has settled? I doubt they will, personally, but I'm one of those people who is a completionist, and the removed cards did exist previously.

Of course the priority in the cards department should be Inheritance and Stash. And then any bug fixes or missing features, etc.

Also... thank you so much to the devs for allowing more than 2 events/landmarks. Made my day when I saw that.

Last I heard since the cards are not part of the official game they are not part of the official online implementation.

[Tombolo]

I'm in a game with Knights, and (EDIT) they don't always attack.  I can't figure out a pattern as to why.  Game #2441545 on tokyo if that helps.

[Beyond Awesome]

I'm in a game with Knights, and my Dame Sylvia is not attacking, although the others seem to be.

EDIT: As soon as I say that, my other knights stop attacking too.

Did you check the log to make sure you aren't hitting estates and copper

[Tombolo]

If I did, it didn't say.

Turn 18 - Tom Bombadil
T plays a Sir Bailey.
T draws a Province.
T plays a Silver, a Copper and a Gold.
T buys and gains an Avanto.
T draws a Silver, a Province, a Plaza and 2 Saunas.

[traces Around]

Your opponent did not have any cards in deck - the Knight attack worked but nothing happened because there were no cards to reveal.

[Awaclus]

In other news, ratings are here, in case anyone hasn't tried the client for a few days.

[Dingan]

[Kirian]

Is there some context that makes this relevant?

[Cuzz]

Is there some context that makes this relevant?

I think the point is that Inheritance is now implemented.

[Witherweaver]

Is there some context that makes this relevant?

I think the point is that Inheritance is now implemented.The context was inherited.

[Kirian]

Is there some context that makes this relevant?

I think the point is that Inheritance is now implemented.The context was inherited.

Oh, bravo.

[Kirian]

Does anyone else rather wish the "loss" music was the "loss" music from The Price is Right?

Or is that just me?

(Yes, I know it's copyrighted, it'd just be amusing.)

[Tombolo]

I play Black Market a lot and this is the first time I've had this happen.  It scales properly when I don't have the browser maximized.

[LibraryAdventurer]

Revealed cards have always appeared like that for me.

[ThetaSigma12]

I play Black Market a lot and this is the first time I've had this happen.

Yeah, I've never seen Counting House/Fortune Teller/Royal Carriage come up together.

[werothegreat]

New release - there are now noises when you have to do something.  I'm just wondering why the German translations need to be updated so often.

[LastFootnote]

New release - there are now noises when you have to do something.  I'm just wondering why the German translations need to be updated so often.

• Removed Herobrine

[pst]

Revealed cards have always appeared like that for me.

Revealed cards have been ridiculously small for me for some time, but not always. There was some note about changing the size for some resolutions in the release notes when it happened.

[-Stef-]

I'm just wondering why the German translations need to be updated so often.

There are lots very small changes that never make it to the release notes. But most of those changes are made by Philip or me and we don't really feel the need to tell the world we dotted some i. Changes to the German translations are made by others (people who actually speak German) who may also want to know their latest changes are now live so why not mention it.

[schadd]

I'm just wondering why the German translations need to be updated so often.

There are lots very small changes that never make it to the release notes. But most of those changes are made by Philip or me and we don't really feel the need to tell the world we dotted some i. Changes to the German translations are made by others (people who actually speak German) who may also want to know their latest changes are now live so why not mention it.

secret history thread when?

[Dingan]

Does the 5-minute-force-resign rule (or whatever it is .. it's 5 minutes, right?) apply when asking your opponent for an undo?

[spiralstaircase]

Autoplay plays coppers when Grand Market is in the supply and the other treasures produce at least $6

This is a known issue and will be worked on.

+1