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Author Topic: Crushed!  (Read 3353 times)

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ehunt

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Crushed!
« on: January 16, 2012, 05:53:14 pm »
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What would y'all do with this board? (Including the veto strategy! I want to veto... all the cards.) I was a little unlucky to miss the potion on the first shuffle, but after that there was a little while I thought I was ahead. But then PerdHapley saw the Silk Roads (which were invisible to me) and it wasn't even close.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201201/16/game-20120116-145036-dcc6d351.html
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Jorbles

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Re: Crushed!
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2012, 06:12:32 pm »
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I probably would have gone for a Goons engine fueled by University/Golem/Margrave and used it to pick up as much green as possible (particularly the Silk Roads). That would have provided a soft counter of sorts to Possession as you would have gotten to keep points from Goons so your opponent wouldn't have wanted to Possess you or if they did wouldn't have wanted to play half your hand.

With the Council Room strategy you were using you definitely should have picked up some more hand discarders so your opponent can't take advantage of 6/7 card hands.
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Elyv

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Re: Crushed!
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 06:22:01 pm »
+1

I'm not really a huge fan of the mass council rooms, especially since the only ways to gain actions are your one university, and the only way to break even is apprentice/golem into apprentice. I get the synergy with possession, but that's a lot of moving parts that you don't really have a good way of putting together.

I think I would probably go for a university/apprentice draw engine(bad as that seems against possession), using the extra actions from university to play a couple of possessions/Goons/potentially margrave or golem(if you can find the potions for this in between buying universities and possessions). Not confident that's right, though.
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Jorbles

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Re: Crushed!
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2012, 06:46:49 pm »
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I'm not really a huge fan of the mass council rooms, especially since the only ways to gain actions are your one university, and the only way to break even is apprentice/golem into apprentice. I get the synergy with possession, but that's a lot of moving parts that you don't really have a good way of putting together.
Did not see that Possession-synergy, but I think that it cuts both ways. If they possess you they can boost their own next hand with the Council Rooms. I think you're better off making your deck less appealing to Possession strategies.
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Elyv

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Re: Crushed!
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2012, 07:11:58 pm »
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I'm not really a huge fan of the mass council rooms, especially since the only ways to gain actions are your one university, and the only way to break even is apprentice/golem into apprentice. I get the synergy with possession, but that's a lot of moving parts that you don't really have a good way of putting together.
Did not see that Possession-synergy, but I think that it cuts both ways. If they possess you they can boost their own next hand with the Council Rooms. I think you're better off making your deck less appealing to Possession strategies.
Well, if you expect to be able to play a possession every turn, that could actually be bad for your opponent. They play, say, 2 council rooms on your turn, go up to 7 cards, then you play one and a possession and you suddenly get to possess an 8 card hand.

It seems like a pretty fragile synergy though, and I don't think decks on this board can consistently play possession without university/apprentice, so I don't think it's worth it here.
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zmook

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Re: Crushed!
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2012, 07:43:25 pm »
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What would y'all do with this board? (Including the veto strategy! I want to veto... all the cards.) I was a little unlucky to miss the potion on the first shuffle, but after that there was a little while I thought I was ahead. But then PerdHapley saw the Silk Roads (which were invisible to me) and it wasn't even close.

You know, it's kind of a basic point, but you never even bought one gold, and your deck struggled to reach $8. 
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zmook

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Re: Crushed!
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2012, 07:48:29 pm »
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A question I've had for a while, and this seems like as good a place to ask it as any:

How do you fight possession?  I generally go with "ignore it and hope I'm faster", but this hasn't always worked out.  Basically, suppose you're in a game with possession on the table, and your opponent has bought a potion.  What do you do/not do?
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Crushed!
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2012, 07:54:54 pm »
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A question I've had for a while, and this seems like as good a place to ask it as any:

How do you fight possession?  I generally go with "ignore it and hope I'm faster", but this hasn't always worked out.  Basically, suppose you're in a game with possession on the table, and your opponent has bought a potion.  What do you do/not do?

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=651.0

DG

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Re: Crushed!
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2012, 08:11:08 pm »
+2

In this game perdhapley

- put a golem and attack cards into the deck - the possessor won't want to play the attacks or the golem
- used a goons for point scoring and coins - the possessor won't want to give vp chips to the owner of the deck
- filled the deck with victory cards - something the possessor can't use

That's all good possession defence. He also had a way to finish the game with his increasingly impoverished deck by emptying the silk roads, estates, and council rooms. The apprentice is dangerous however since the possessor can trash your biggest assets to draw a very large number of cards (a big bonus even though the trashed cards are returned to the deck).
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RisingJaguar

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Re: Crushed!
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2012, 08:28:34 pm »
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A question I've had for a while, and this seems like as good a place to ask it as any:

How do you fight possession?  I generally go with "ignore it and hope I'm faster", but this hasn't always worked out.  Basically, suppose you're in a game with possession on the table, and your opponent has bought a potion.  What do you do/not do?

In general games, I like to assume they will not purchase possession (unless they pick up potion while its the only potion-cost card).  The reason is it'll take one cycle for the potion to come around, and then once they buy it (if they get it on that next cycle), they will have to wait another cycle in order to use it.  Preemptively greening faster while they will not purchase possession could be bad.   Of course, you should be more nervous if they have a big-boy engine or a trashed deck. 

The actual fight against is usually simple, green faster.  Other then that, there are particular cards that suddenly become much stronger.  Ambassador/masquerade really change tides as the possessor gets to choose.  Trashing for benefit carsd are also scary too.  For example, Ehunt does apprentice golems which a normal player wouldn't do but in possession, you aren't worried about trashing, so eliminating these cards would help too. 

Also, yeah there were way too many terminals although the synergy was a great idea. 
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PerdHapley

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Re: Crushed!
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2012, 09:05:57 pm »
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God, can you imagine what this game would have looked like if I hadn't vetoed Ambassador? What a rough set of cards.

DG pretty much summed up my thought process already. As soon as it became clear that I was going to get possessed every turn, I basically went into defense mode, avoiding picking up council rooms in favor of margrave/goons/golem and looking for whatever seemed like the clearest route towards ending the game quickly. I maybe should have avoided stocking up on apprentices, but they were essential to making sure I was able to draw my deck consistently (especially once I started rushing Silk Roads) and I was pretty confident in my lead by the midpoint based on our deck compositions. Weird match, but a fun one!
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Wingnut

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Re: Crushed!
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2012, 01:18:07 am »
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Since you asked on veto strategy, I think I would have vetoed Apprentice here as its presence allows Possession in general to have a whole lot more power. From there, its probably BM-Margrave (along with a Swindler since it wouldn't be vetoed) and if I get possessed a few times oh well it happens. Goons looks like big shiny trap here no matter the veto and I think I would avoid it and playing a BM variant means I'm avoiding all the Potion cards, powerful though they might be.
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zmook

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Re: Crushed!
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2012, 12:04:14 pm »
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