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Author Topic: Dominion: Empires Announced!  (Read 48623 times)

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florrat

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2016, 07:47:28 pm »
0

I'm so glad this finally is announced, so that I can tell everyone that you all should get this expansion!  I've been fortunate enough to get to play with some of the cards, and I think this might be the best Dominion expansion yet.

Isn't the new expansion always the best expansion? It consists entirely of things you're not (yet) familiar with.

Or do you mean that it's the best expansion yet, even taking that into account? In that case, that's a very tall order. And very hard to tell if you've seen only part of the expansion.

Sorry if this sounded too grumpy. It's okay to be super excited about the new expansion!
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The_Tricksta

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2016, 08:08:53 pm »
0

For the German translation wouldn't you have to contact RGG themselves though? Some time ago it was Hans im Glück who published the game here but that changed and it's RGG now.
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2016, 08:11:28 pm »
+3

For the German translation wouldn't you have to contact RGG themselves though? Some time ago it was Hans im Glück who published the game here but that changed and it's RGG now.
Altenburger publishes the game in German now and that means they do the German translation.

At one point we gave them the big list of mistakes that the German forums people had compiled. It may have included gender mistakes; I'd have to check.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2016, 08:13:42 pm »
0

I'm so glad this finally is announced, so that I can tell everyone that you all should get this expansion!  I've been fortunate enough to get to play with some of the cards, and I think this might be the best Dominion expansion yet.

Isn't the new expansion always the best expansion? It consists entirely of things you're not (yet) familiar with.

Or do you mean that it's the best expansion yet, even taking that into account? In that case, that's a very tall order. And very hard to tell if you've seen only part of the expansion.

Sorry if this sounded too grumpy. It's okay to be super excited about the new expansion!

I don't agree with this. No one was calling Guilds the best expansion when it came out.

Anyway, my personal thoughts, this will be hard to top Adventures (mind you, I have hardly played enough Adventures). Adventures had the travellers. Also, Adventures seems to have more cards overall.

My prediction is that this will have 25 Kingdoms and 10 Events instead of 20 this time. We do get the return of VP tokens and the introduction of landmarks, so it seems this set will have a focus on alternative win conditions.

I guess we will have to wait and see how this compares to Adventures.
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2016, 08:15:26 pm »
+1

Here is my bold prediction for the set. With this seeming to emphasize an Empire and not just a kingdom anymore, I think we will get some very high end cost Kingdom cards. I'm thinking we will get a card that costs $10 or more, potentially cost even more than a Colony.
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Watno

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2016, 08:25:01 pm »
+1

I think landmarks will be similar to events, in that they are single (not-)cards that will be added to the kingdom. They will hand out VP tokens for doing certain things like: "If you trashed at least 3 cards in your turn, +5 VP" or "If you didn't play any treasures in your turn, +3 VP". If this is the case, I guess 20 of these and 10 new events might be reasonable numbers.
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The_Tricksta

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #56 on: January 31, 2016, 08:25:57 pm »
+1

Altenburger publishes the game in German now and that means they do the German translation.

At one point we gave them the big list of mistakes that the German forums people had compiled. It may have included gender mistakes; I'd have to check.

Wow, that was a quick reply. I stand corrected on the publisher, I was misinformed.

While this thread has your attention: I don't know whether you can disclose this piece of information but do the translators also get the artworks for the cards in order to gain more context to translate or do they only get the transcript? I have been involved in helping out with translations in other games before and I have been wondering why so many mistakes are being made.
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #57 on: January 31, 2016, 09:11:17 pm »
+3

While this thread has your attention: I don't know whether you can disclose this piece of information but do the translators also get the artworks for the cards in order to gain more context to translate or do they only get the transcript? I have been involved in helping out with translations in other games before and I have been wondering why so many mistakes are being made.
I know that HiG did at one point; I don't know if anyone does today. Well wait, didn't the French publisher leak a couple of tiny images for Adventures? Although, that doesn't tell us when they got them.
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The_Tricksta

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #58 on: January 31, 2016, 10:25:32 pm »
+3

I know that HiG did at one point; I don't know if anyone does today. Well wait, didn't the French publisher leak a couple of tiny images for Adventures? Although, that doesn't tell us when they got them.

Judging by the French translations of the cards they seem to have had the images during the translations since they got the female Storyteller and Page traveler cards right and they could've only known if they had seen the images or if there were notes for them in the transcripts.

Well, I'll try contacting Altenburger about the proper genders in card titles, since I think it's safe to assume there are female characters again in the new expansion. I don't know how much that will accomplish since they will still need to get a little bit more information than only getting the transcripts of the card names and effects and I don't know how the relationships between publishers and their internal structures work to allow that. I hope that they handle the translations themselves and don't outsource it to another company at least.

Thanks for your replies though, I really appreciate how open and transparent you are about the things revolving around everyone's favourite board game. ;)
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Eran of Arcadia

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #59 on: January 31, 2016, 10:56:37 pm »
+3

In Russia they had Base and Intrigue translated, but recently they stopped printing Intrigue..

In Russia, Intrigue translates YOU!!
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Awaclus

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #60 on: January 31, 2016, 11:33:59 pm »
+7

Wero, what do you think the Alchemy sequel will be called? Is it going to be a large set?

It's got to be called Gunpowder.

AdamH

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #61 on: February 01, 2016, 08:28:20 am »
+1

Why can't tournaments be on Tuesday afternoons, near Cleveland, so I don't need to use vacation time to attend? :(
I'm only about an hour from Cleveland.  If you want to meet up after work sometime, I'm game :)

On topic: Woo more Dominion! *looks at box* but I just fit Adventures in you!

1. My IRL boardgaming group meets on Tuesday nights. I don't think I could host a tournament then but you're welcome to stop by :-P (the next one is in April, I don't have a date yet but the store likes them on Saturdays at 1PM. Mark your calendar)

2. Ever since I knew there would be another expansion, I've been racking my brain trying to think of a way to fit all of the kingdom cards and one set of supply cards in my box. The conclusion I've come to is that I'm totally screwed. I can't think of any way I can fit all of these cards into one box with sleeves on them. Like, I just don't know what I'm going to do. Nothing I have seen out there will work.

There are storage solutions that are more expansible, but none of them will work with Fantasy Flight sleeves, and I'm not unsleeving my cards.

Maybe I should start another thread about this.

3. In any case, this expansion is going to be really, really awesome. It's really tough to compare it to other expansions right now (this whole Adventures/Seaside and Empires/Prosperity just doesn't ring true to me) but suffice it to say that getting good at Empires is gonna be really tough to do. For the first time, you'll actually see "bad" strategies start to become really powerful, which is something I don't know of expansions really doing before.
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market squire

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2016, 08:39:02 am »
+2

For the German translation. Please make sure they use the female grammatical form when there are "female" people in the art.
So far they've only done it with witches and very few other cards like duchess. But they used "Bäcker" instead of "Bäckerin" for baker, "Wildhüter" instead of "Wildhüterin"  for ranger, "Geschichtenerzähler" instead of "Geschichtenerzählerin" for storyteller etc.
I really appreciate that Donald made sure there are more women in the art. But the (wrong) translation spoils it.
For me personally, this is just beyond the scope. Feel free to contact the German publisher and complain yourself... or the Hungarian publisher or Polish publisher or whoever.
Well, I'll try contacting Altenburger about the proper genders in card titles, since I think it's safe to assume there are female characters again in the new expansion. I don't know how much that will accomplish since they will still need to get a little bit more information than only getting the transcripts of the card names and effects and I don't know how the relationships between publishers and their internal structures work to allow that. I hope that they handle the translations themselves and don't outsource it to another company at least.

That is controversial. I was part of the fan team that helped proofreading the German translations for the Adventures cards (with others from the dominionblog.de forum). We had lots of discussion about exactly that question.
My personal point of view is, if there were female card names, it would sound like all bakers, rangers and storytellers were female in that time. This is a way of artificial gendering that I don't like. I see the image only as an example. The art is there to stimulate the players' fantasy and immersion, not as an exact "this is what you get". Making the gender of the art different to the gender in the title is the most elegant solution in my opinion, even if people get confused about it. I think it might cause more confusion if there were female card names.
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yuma

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2016, 08:47:11 am »
+5

For the German translation. Please make sure they use the female grammatical form when there are "female" people in the art.
So far they've only done it with witches and very few other cards like duchess. But they used "Bäcker" instead of "Bäckerin" for baker, "Wildhüter" instead of "Wildhüterin"  for ranger, "Geschichtenerzähler" instead of "Geschichtenerzählerin" for storyteller etc.
I really appreciate that Donald made sure there are more women in the art. But the (wrong) translation spoils it.
For me personally, this is just beyond the scope. Feel free to contact the German publisher and complain yourself... or the Hungarian publisher or Polish publisher or whoever.
Well, I'll try contacting Altenburger about the proper genders in card titles, since I think it's safe to assume there are female characters again in the new expansion. I don't know how much that will accomplish since they will still need to get a little bit more information than only getting the transcripts of the card names and effects and I don't know how the relationships between publishers and their internal structures work to allow that. I hope that they handle the translations themselves and don't outsource it to another company at least.
My personal point of view is, if there were male card names, it would sound like all bakers, rangers and storytellers were male in that time. This is a way of artificial gendering that I don't like.
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ben_king

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #64 on: February 01, 2016, 08:52:36 am »
+3

I'm so glad this finally is announced, so that I can tell everyone that you all should get this expansion!  I've been fortunate enough to get to play with some of the cards, and I think this might be the best Dominion expansion yet.

Isn't the new expansion always the best expansion? It consists entirely of things you're not (yet) familiar with.

Or do you mean that it's the best expansion yet, even taking that into account? In that case, that's a very tall order. And very hard to tell if you've seen only part of the expansion.

Sorry if this sounded too grumpy. It's okay to be super excited about the new expansion!

It definitely is tricky to separate the novelty from the quality of the expansion.  :)  But I think I've played with enough of the cards (~90%) that I feel confident in saying that after accounting for novelty, it's between Empires and Adventures for best Dominion expansion so far.  If you're a serious Dominion player, you won't be disappointed. 

And I totally agree with Adam about the new strategic directions.  It's gonna be fun to figure out how to play these cards right.  I envy all of you who will get your minds blown by the previews.  :D
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Accatitippi

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #65 on: February 01, 2016, 09:23:30 am »
+2

I don't speak German, but isn't masculine the standard form of a job unless you're specifically referring to a woman?
In Italian, Baker (masculine form) makes sense even on a card picturing a woman since it describes people of both genders doing that job. (a "Bakers' association" would bear the masculine, for example)
Baker (feminine) makes me think the translator couldn't fathom the idea of a male baker, or that a male Baker has another card with a different effect. Or that I'm buying 10 copies of the same person.
It's not a matter of gender equality, but rather of grammar.
The big catch is, maybe German doesn't even work the same way.
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Japo

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #66 on: February 01, 2016, 09:32:44 am »
+4

It's gonna be difficult for me to discuss this in English and I'm not sure this is the right place to do it.
Just a few words:

if there were female card names, it would sound like all bakers, rangers and storytellers were female in that time. This is a way of artificial gendering that I don't like. I see the image only as an example. The art is there to stimulate the players' fantasy and immersion, not as an exact "this is what you get".


The way they name the cards now it sounds like all bakers were men. And we are not talking about the so called "neutral male plural form" which includes all genders.
"Baker" in English means "Bäcker" or "Bäckerin" in German. You don't know if the baker is male or female. So if you translate it you have to have a look at the context which in this case is the art. If the art shows a woman* you have to translate "baker" as "Bäckerin".

Making the gender of the art different to the gender in the title is the most elegant solution in my opinion, even if people get confused about it.


So that means we should give the male art female names and the female art male names?
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nana-king

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #67 on: February 01, 2016, 09:34:26 am »
+2

I'm so glad this finally is announced, so that I can tell everyone that you all should get this expansion!  I've been fortunate enough to get to play with some of the cards, and I think this might be the best Dominion expansion yet.

Isn't the new expansion always the best expansion? It consists entirely of things you're not (yet) familiar with.

Or do you mean that it's the best expansion yet, even taking that into account? In that case, that's a very tall order. And very hard to tell if you've seen only part of the expansion.

Sorry if this sounded too grumpy. It's okay to be super excited about the new expansion!

It definitely is tricky to separate the novelty from the quality of the expansion.  :)  But I think I've played with enough of the cards (~90%) that I feel confident in saying that after accounting for novelty, it's between Empires and Adventures for best Dominion expansion so far.  If you're a serious Dominion player, you won't be disappointed. 

And I totally agree with Adam about the new strategic directions.  It's gonna be fun to figure out how to play these cards right.  I envy all of you who will get your minds blown by the previews.  :D

I agree that this is the best expansion yet.  I realize that is bold but I back it up by saying that this expansion is a huge game changer, literally.  While Adventures changed the game with events it didn't turn the game on its head.  Empires has cards that turn the game completely upside-down.  Like Adam said, things you once thought were bad can now be good.  Yet it all plays well with the other sets.  I can't wait for this to come out! 
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werothegreat

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #68 on: February 01, 2016, 09:37:39 am »
+1

I don't speak German, but isn't masculine the standard form of a job unless you're specifically referring to a woman?
In Italian, Baker (masculine form) makes sense even on a card picturing a woman since it describes people of both genders doing that job. (a "Bakers' association" would bear the masculine, for example)
Baker (feminine) makes me think the translator couldn't fathom the idea of a male baker, or that a male Baker has another card with a different effect. Or that I'm buying 10 copies of the same person.
It's not a matter of gender equality, but rather of grammar.
The big catch is, maybe German doesn't even work the same way.

Most English job names are gender-neutral.  There's no "bakeress" or whatever, so having a female baker on the art isn't inconsistent with anything.

In German, there is at least one instance of using both feminine and masculine versions of a word for a card: Wahrsagerin (fem.) was used for Fortune Teller, so Soothsayer had to be called Wahrsager (masc.) despite also having a girl on it.
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pedroluchini

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #69 on: February 01, 2016, 09:39:08 am »
+3

Proposed solution: translate the card as "Bakery".
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werothegreat

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #70 on: February 01, 2016, 09:45:43 am »
0

And let's look at a counterexample: Witch (and Sea Hag, and Young Witch, and Swamp Hag) specifically refers to a woman in English, and the art reflects that - it doesn't show a male witch.  Donald could have just as easily called it a Warlock.  This is the only instance I can think of in English where there isn't really a gender-neutral term for a "job", but then again, we don't have all that many witches nowadays.  Now, languages other than English have explicitly masculine and feminine terms for a lot of things.  If they're going to be considerate and translate Witch as feminine, I think it's perfectly fair that they translate cards as feminine if the art discloses as much.
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Watno

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #71 on: February 01, 2016, 10:12:05 am »
+1

When the gender is unimportant, you use the male form, for example "ich habe einen Termin beim Zahnarzt" ( I have a dentist's appointment)
Still I think it would be reasonable to use female forms if there's a woman on the picture.

@wero there's also duchess/ Duke and baron
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Watno

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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #72 on: February 01, 2016, 10:21:37 am »
0

In German, there is at least one instance of using both feminine and masculine versions of a word for a card: Wahrsagerin (fem.) was used for Fortune Teller, so Soothsayer had to be called Wahrsager (masc.) despite also having a girl on it.
It didn't have to be called Wahrsager, they could have gone with Hellseherin for example.
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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #73 on: February 01, 2016, 10:29:11 am »
0

While this thread has your attention: I don't know whether you can disclose this piece of information but do the translators also get the artworks for the cards in order to gain more context to translate or do they only get the transcript? I have been involved in helping out with translations in other games before and I have been wondering why so many mistakes are being made.
I know that HiG did at one point; I don't know if anyone does today. Well wait, didn't the French publisher leak a couple of tiny images for Adventures? Although, that doesn't tell us when they got them.
That was the German publisher btw
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Re: Dominion: Empires Announced!
« Reply #74 on: February 01, 2016, 11:01:12 am »
+3

There are storage solutions that are more expansible, but none of them will work with Fantasy Flight sleeves, and I'm not unsleeving my cards.

White baseball card boxes. Mine are all sleeved FFG just like yours. I know it's not sexy, but you could pretty up the boxes some same as a case. Then it's modular, but still extremely condensed. All sets (including Empires) fit in three of those things I brought Saturday.
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