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Author Topic: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Duplicate  (Read 9286 times)

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mameluke

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Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Duplicate
« on: January 28, 2016, 10:52:20 pm »
+5


Action - Reserve
$4
Put this on your Tavern mat.
-----
When you gain a card costing up to $6, you may call this, to gain a copy of that card.

Discussion:
It's the Smugglers we wish we had. Of course, it costs $4. It's also worth comparing to the other $4 gainers, Armory and Ironworks, or perhaps Talisman is even closer. This seems superior: it can gain cards up to $6, they can be Victory Cards, and you can wait around until you can actually Duplicate the card you want. It doesn't even need to wait around on the Tavern mat like other Reserve cards -- you can call it in the same turn you play it.

The drawback, of course, is that you have to be able to afford the card you're aiming for, so it is susceptible to slogs and attack cards, unlike Smugglers or Jester which can benefit from the opponent's good play. In a Gardens slog, you only need a Workshop in your hand to pick up another Gardens -- the rest of your hand can be junk. A hand of Estate-Estate-Copper-Copper-Duplicate will leave you Duplicating on a future turn. This isn't a bad thing, but like the other gainers, you'll want to be able to call this as much as possible, especially because it can gain $5s and $6s.

Because it can gain cards up to $6, it's much easier to Duplicate Provinces: you only need two highways (or Bridges, etc.) in play, which is feasible even in 3 and 4 player games. Perhaps picking up a few Highways, Duplicating Duplicates and then attempting to pile-drive the Provinces is a viable strategy.

Certainly it works best in engines where you want more of everything. Buy a Border Village for $6, and gain four cards. Get multiple Cultists in your deck even sooner. And in the endgame, pick up extra green cards.

How successful have you been at Duplicating? Do you leave it on the mat until you can gain that key card, or do you use it to gain $4s? Is this an early buy, or one to save for the mid-game?

Earlier discussion: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=12865.0
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ConMan

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Duplicate
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2016, 12:01:27 am »
0

Like most Reserve cards, it benefits highly from being able to get it played as quickly as possible (of course that's true for most cards, but I think that Reserve and Traveller cards particularly need to get played quickly to really show their strength). As such, I'd say that Watchtower, Royal Seal and Summon are extremely good enablers.

Most gainers are usually restricted to (a) cheap cards, (b) cards of a particular type, or (c) cards you don't have a lot of control over the choice of, so being able to gain a card with (a) a decent cost, (b) of any type, and (c) that you already wanted to gain at least one copy of already, is pretty boss.

I agree that its biggest downside over most other gainers is that you need to be able to buy or otherwise gain a copy of the card in question first, and you have to actually want two copies of it. So if there's a junker, this may not be great - with a ruined deck you may not be able to get the first copy of the engine piece you want to be able to call this to get a second. Of course you can get a second copy of the junker, and that's often a good thing, as long as the three terminals in your deck don't result in collisions ahoy.
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enfynet

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Duplicate
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2016, 01:52:05 am »
0

If I have enough actions to spare on these, I would much prefer a Duplicate over a Talisman. That ability to gain $5 and $6 cost cards is a huge benefit.
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luser

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Duplicate
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2016, 09:00:11 am »
+2

Does somebody have experience with tournament and duplicate combo? Best prize there would princess as you could hit 6 and have duplicating province megaturn.
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Chris is me

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Duplicate
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2016, 09:07:03 am »
+2

I'll say a lot more about Duplicate later, but first I want to chime in with how cwazy this card is in Duke / Duchy games. You buy pretty much just Duplicates and Silver for a shuffle or two, grab all your Duchy and Dukes in just a few turns.
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Duplicate
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2016, 09:18:08 am »
+2

Even outside of Duke games, Duplicate is really nice late-game to grab a pile of Duchies at once.
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ipofanes

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Duplicate
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2016, 09:42:45 am »
+1

Sounds you need multiple grabs, which would be in line with the above comment that you don't want to leave Reserve cards in the Tavern for too long.

But how bad does terminal collision bite you after the first grab? How often do you reach $5 with the deck that has got its first dose of green?
 
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Duplicate
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2016, 10:25:32 am »
+1

Duplicate in an engine also has big implications.  With a couple of Duplicates on the mat you can go from overdrawing your deck and only having $7ish cash to having $16 for double Province in a single turn.  Without Duplicate you would need an additional 2-3 turns of spending on payload before you get up to $16.

Then you store your Duplicates on your mat as others have said for late game Duchy grabbing.
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mameluke

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Duplicate
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2016, 12:04:06 pm »
+1

I'm struggling to see exactly how Duke/Duchy will work. If it's part of a draw-your-deck engine, OK, but maybe you'd better just go for Provinces. Otherwise, the terminal-ness of Duplicate is going to make this pretty slow. You're going to need to buy (or gain via Duplicate) 4 or 5 Duplicates, and somehow play them: but it's going to take at least four turns assuming no collisions. Then you'll buy a Duchy, and gain the rest of them (assuming the opponent has been doing something meanwhile). Then you need to wade through your deck full of Duchies and play the Duplicates once again (another four or five turns?), THEN gain Duke. I've never tried this, but it just seems slow and can get screwed up if you have more Duplicates than Duchies (or Dukes) left in the pile.
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AdamH

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Duplicate
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2016, 12:17:22 pm »
0

Feast is already good for Duchy/Duke. Duplicate in that deck is pretty close to a reusable Feast. Seems pretty strong to me.
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Deadlock39

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Duplicate
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2016, 12:54:01 pm »
+3

Here is a very simple example to show the usefulness of Duplicate for Duchy/Duke.

For the sake of this example we assume we have built our deck to a point of reliably hitting $5 and are ready to start buying Duchies, and will apply a comparison to Silver.

If you have a Duplicate instead of Silver, we now only reach $3, and can purchase Silver instead of Duchy.  On the next turn, we can purchase Duchy and Duplicate it.  In the case of having Duplicate, we end up with an extra Silver gain over those two turns, and the same number of Duchies.

In a real game this benefit gets weighed against the risk of collision with other terminals and the benefit of other cards that can be gained instead.

Donald X.

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Duplicate
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2016, 08:14:24 pm »
+9

As Mic said sometime, it's what you always wanted Smugglers to be. It smuggles from yourself, when the time is right, and you can just co-operate with yourself, and get what you wanted.

You really feel how terminal it is; I remember always being conflicted, wanting Duplicate, or another Duplicate, but only being able to play so many actions. And it can miss shuffles, when you don't draw $5 in time. But well, it gets important $5's and then later Duchies. Or once in a while Provinces. It's a bargain.

Oh hey Chris is me, you did not say a lot more about Duplicate later.
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