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faust

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Have the most money on turn 1
« on: January 18, 2016, 08:39:01 pm »
+1

Puzzle: In a standard game, what is the maximum amount of money you can have in your first turn?

All cards and any number of Events allowed.

I can get to     $16   , can anyone do better than that?

EDIT: New high score:   $58 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 10:36:04 am by faust »
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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2016, 08:42:16 pm »
0

How many players?

Limetime

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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2016, 08:52:12 pm »
0

How many players?
With 16 players I can get 24$ easily.
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faust

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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2016, 08:57:57 pm »
0

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faust

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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2016, 08:58:47 pm »
0

I found an exploit that lets you get to at least $32, and quite possibly a lot higher if optimized.
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enfynet

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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2016, 09:12:00 pm »
0

First thought is Messenger's gain effect, and Lost City's draw effect. First turn, assuming you are last player of X players, right?
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faust

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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2016, 04:52:23 am »
0

First thought is Messenger's gain effect, and Lost City's draw effect. First turn, assuming you are last player of X players, right?

Right. And you cannot take extra turns. (other players before you might)
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faust

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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2016, 10:36:57 am »
0

I think I reached a point where I am done optimizing (are you ever though?). My new max value is in the OP.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2016, 12:46:57 pm »
0

Single player version? Is it simply $7?
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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2016, 07:09:37 pm »
0

Single player version? Is it simply $7?

It's multiplayer.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2016, 07:54:47 pm »
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Single player version? Is it simply $7?

It's multiplayer.

I know, I was just asking/answering the single player version.
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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2016, 09:55:45 pm »
0

The question for all Dominion puzzles: do Possession/Mission turns count?
How about chained Possession turns? i.e. P1 Possesses P2 to Possess P3 to ... to Possess P6 to Possess P1, and P6 still has not yet taken turn 1.

I have no idea how you would pull that off before P6 even gets a turn, just thinking about how to do it. Maybe Messenger Potion and +Buy into Stonemason Lost City chain into Mission Possession?
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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2016, 02:47:38 am »
0

Single player version? Is it simply $7?

It's multiplayer.

I know, I was just asking/answering the single player version.
I think it's $7, I thought about overpaying for Doctor, trashing OE and drawing an extra Copper (for an artificial $8 spending power), but that doesn't work because you have to spend all of your treasures and coins at once.
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faust

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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2016, 04:39:55 am »
0

The question for all Dominion puzzles: do Possession/Mission turns count?
How about chained Possession turns? i.e. P1 Possesses P2 to Possess P3 to ... to Possess P6 to Possess P1, and P6 still has not yet taken turn 1.

I have no idea how you would pull that off before P6 even gets a turn, just thinking about how to do it. Maybe Messenger Potion and +Buy into Stonemason Lost City chain into Mission Possession?

The first turn taken by any player counts. If P6's first turn is a possessed turn, then this is the turn that matters.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2016, 11:20:04 am »
0

Single player version? Is it simply $7?

It's multiplayer.

I know, I was just asking/answering the single player version.
I think it's $7, I thought about overpaying for Doctor, trashing OE and drawing an extra Copper (for an artificial $8 spending power), but that doesn't work because you have to spend all of your treasures and coins at once.

I thought about buying Mission, because by general rules, your Mission turn would still be part of your first turn. But pretty sure your Mission turn will be even less money.
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markusin

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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2016, 03:14:06 pm »
0

Single player version? Is it simply $7?

It's multiplayer.

I know, I was just asking/answering the single player version.
I think it's $7, I thought about overpaying for Doctor, trashing OE and drawing an extra Copper (for an artificial $8 spending power), but that doesn't work because you have to spend all of your treasures and coins at once.

I thought about buying Mission, because by general rules, your Mission turn would still be part of your first turn. But pretty sure your Mission turn will be even less money.

Isn't it any player can take any number of extra turns except for the player whose total coin count we are measuring. So if we want to see how much money P6 can produce on Turn 1, players 1-5 can take extra turns, but the first turn that P6 takes is the one that is measured, whether or not it is an extra turn.
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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2016, 03:28:14 pm »
0

Single player version? Is it simply $7?

It's multiplayer.

I know, I was just asking/answering the single player version.
I think it's $7, I thought about overpaying for Doctor, trashing OE and drawing an extra Copper (for an artificial $8 spending power), but that doesn't work because you have to spend all of your treasures and coins at once.

I thought about buying Mission, because by general rules, your Mission turn would still be part of your first turn. But pretty sure your Mission turn will be even less money.

Isn't it any player can take any number of extra turns except for the player whose total coin count we are measuring. So if we want to see how much money P6 can produce on Turn 1, players 1-5 can take extra turns, but the first turn that P6 takes is the one that is measured, whether or not it is an extra turn.

There's different rules you could use for puzzle purposes. But the only time that number of turns matters for official play is when determining tie-breakers, and for those purposes, extra turns from Outpost, Possession, and Mission are ignored. Thus it is reasonable to say that in a 1 player game, if you buy a Mission as your first opener, then your Mission turn is still considered turn 1.
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faust

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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2016, 04:46:12 pm »
0

Single player version? Is it simply $7?

It's multiplayer.

I know, I was just asking/answering the single player version.
I think it's $7, I thought about overpaying for Doctor, trashing OE and drawing an extra Copper (for an artificial $8 spending power), but that doesn't work because you have to spend all of your treasures and coins at once.

I thought about buying Mission, because by general rules, your Mission turn would still be part of your first turn. But pretty sure your Mission turn will be even less money.

Isn't it any player can take any number of extra turns except for the player whose total coin count we are measuring. So if we want to see how much money P6 can produce on Turn 1, players 1-5 can take extra turns, but the first turn that P6 takes is the one that is measured, whether or not it is an extra turn.

Well, I restricted it to the real "first turn" any player takes. Mission provides an extra turn, and if you are having an extra turn, surely it isn't this turn anymore.

That said, it would certainly be interesting to see how much the solution can be improved by allowing Mission. But I prefer that as a follow-up question after we solved the more restrictive puzzle.
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florrat

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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2016, 11:21:17 pm »
+5

I'm too lazy to figure out exactly how high I can go, but I can empty the supply on the first turn of player 5, so that should give you at least $500 (I don't have room for Coppersmith in the kingdom, but even a single Coppersmith from the BM deck which is played 3-7 times is worth a lot). I'll write up a solution later.
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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2016, 12:02:07 am »
+26

Here is the solution to empty the supply on turn 1 of player 5 in a 5-player game.

(I left out the last part, which is very similar to CC's solution to empty the supply)

Kingdom: Lost City (LC), Messenger (Me), Stonemason (SM), Masquerade (Ma), Procession (Pr), Fortress (Fo), Catacombs (Ca), Haggler (Ha), King's Court (KC), Watchtower (Wt), Black Market (BM)
Black Market deck: Baker, Young Witch, Prince, Coppersmith, Graverobber, Rogue, ...
Events: Burrow, Travelling Fair, Mission, Ball
Shelter game

Starting hands:
P1 draws 5C
P2 draws 5C
P3 draws 5C
P4 draws 2C,N,H,O
P5 draws 2C,N,H,O

----- Player 1: -----
P1 plays 5C, spends baker token, buys Burrow, buys SM1, gains LC1 and LC2. Everyone else draws 2C.
Cleanup: P1 draws C,C,O,N.

----- Player 2: -----
P2 plays 7C, buys Me1. Everyone gains Ma. (P2 gains Ma1, P3 gains Ma2, etc.)
Cleanup: P2 draws H,O,N (reshuffle),Ma1,Me1.

----- Player 3: -----
P3 plays 7C, spends baker token, buys Burrow, buys Travelling Fair, Mission, Ma6.
Cleanup: P3 draws N,O,H (reshuffle), Ma2.

----- Player 3 (mission turn): -----
P3 plays N, plays Ma2, draws Ma6, C, passes: (1 C, 2 Ma1, 3 H, 4 H, 5 H), trashes O, draws C.
P3 plays Ma6, draws 2C, passes: (1 C, 2 O, 3 Ma1, 4 H, 5 H), trashes O, draws C.
P3 plays 5C, buys Ball, gains Pr1, Pr2.
Cleanup: P3 draws 2C (reshuffle), Pr1, Pr2, Ma2.

----- Player 4: -----
P4 plays N, plays Ma1, draws 2C, passes: (1 O, 2 Me1, 3 Ma2, 4 C, 5 H), trashes O, draws C.
P4 plays Ma2, draws (reshuffle) Ma3 (deck empty), passes: (1 N, 2 O, 3 Pr1, 4 Ma3, 5 N).
P4 plays 6C, buys Mission.
Cleanup: P4 draws (reshuffle) N,Ma1,Ma2,Pr1,C.

----- Player 4 (mission turn): -----
P4 plays N, plays Ma1, draws 2C, passes: (1 N, 2 N, 3 Pr2, 4 Pr1, 5 O).
P4 plays Ma2, draws 2C, passes: (1 O, 2 N, 3 Me1, 4 Pr2, 5 C).
P4 plays 5C, buys Ball, gains Fo1, Wt1
Cleanup: P4 draws C (reshuffle), Fo1, Wt1, Ma1, Ma2

----- Player 5: -----
P5 plays Pr1-Pr2,
- plays Ma3 twice, draws 2C, passes: (1 C, 2 N, 3 N, 4 Fo1, 5 C), draws C (reshuffle), Ma4, passes: (1 C, 2 C, 3 N, 4 Wt1, 5 C), trashes Ma3, gains Pr3.
- plays Fo1 twice, draws (reshuffle) Pr3 (deck empty), trashes Fo1, puts Fo1 in hand, gains Ca1, reveals Wt1, trashes Ca1, gain Pr4.
- trashes Pr2, gains and trashes Ca2, gains Pr5
P5 plays Ma4, draws (reshuffle) Pr4, Pr5, passes: (1 C, 2 C, 3 C, 4 C, 5 C)

* Now P5 can start its big Procession chain, playing Procession whenever possible, and Fortress otherwise. The first gain priority is Procession (via Catacombs), and when the Processions are out, start gaining Hagglers and a single Black Market (via Catacombs) and possibly another Watchtower.
* Then P5 can play most Hagglers, playing Wt for draw. Then play a BM, buying a card costing at least 6, gaining the remaining Hagglers, and as much Watchtowers and Black Markets as needed. If P5 needs more draw or actions, P5 can gain some Lost Cities.
* Then P5 gains all KCs by buying a single Prince from the BM deck. Now KC the remaining BMs to gain as much cards as possible, gaining a huge number of cards, including Coppers. Buy a Scrying Pool and Counting House for draw. Buy a single Coppersmith and KC it for coins.
* For maximal coins, P5 must keep 2 in the supply during the Procession chain, and Process Coppersmith twice, getting it back with Rogue and Graverobber. Also, you want to play some Masquerades to get some Coppers from the other players (and give some junk back, e.g. Stonemasons gained with Haggler).
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 08:11:55 pm by florrat »
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enfynet

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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2016, 03:31:33 am »
0

That's just absurd...
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faust

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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2016, 10:13:32 am »
0

That's pretty cool. I did not use Mission, which of course was a mistake. Calculating the maximum coin here is obviously a pain; but I wonder if this kind of thing is still possible without Mission turns? I feel like you can do this as P6 even without Mission, but I'm not quite sure.
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Re: Have the most money on turn 1
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2016, 04:21:55 am »
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That's just absurd...

Absolutely.

Compared to reality: My personal record is $6 in T1, and it already felt like a "weird exception".
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