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Author Topic: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Results!)  (Read 7055 times)

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mith

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+3

Results!
View Finalists
View Cards Submitted

This is the second third contest for this year's set. This week's challenge: Design an Event!

Submission Rules

Each participant may submit one card per challenge.
Participation in previous or future challenges is not required to participate in this one.
Submit your card to me via this forum's messaging system. Submissions made after each week's deadline cannot be accepted.
Each card you submit must have a name, a cost, a list of types, and the exact wording that should appear on the card.  Also include a brief description of any special design considerations (e.g., Stash having a unique back), but do NOT include any other information, such as strategic commentary or examples about it would play.
The name you give your card will appear on the ballot. If multiple cards with the same name are submitted, I will differentiate them with letters in a randomly chosen order, e.g. [Card Name] A, [Card Name] B, etc. Cards themselves will likewise be listed in a random order on the ballot.
I will accept revisions to your contest entries provided they are submitted to me before the deadline.  If you submit a revision to an entry you have previously submitted to me, resubmit your revised card(s) in their entirety.
Only submit cards that are your own design.
You may submit cards that have been previously posted here in this forum, including those that have been refined by the community as a whole, provided you can still claim that the central conceit of the card -- and the majority of its final version -- is yours.
A single card might conceivably qualify for multiple challenges within this series. If your card doesn't win the first challenge you submit it to, you may submit it for any and all future challenges (until it wins), provided the card fits those challenges. This is particularly pertinent for cards that don't win the first of two slots for a large expansion, although depending on which card does win, your card may not qualify for the second challenge.
Do not disclose your submissions publicly, either in this thread or elsewhere!

Except where specified, you may not submit cards combine certain mechanics from multiple expansions. The idea is that you could simply slot the cards into their respective sets without needing components or rules specific to another set. Specifically:

Duration cards may only be submitted as candidates for a Seaside or Adventures slot.
Potion-cost cards may only be submitted as candidates for the Alchemy slot.
Cards that use VP tokens or cost $7 or more may only be submitted as candidates for a Prosperity slot.
Cards that use Coin tokens and cards that use overpay may only be submitted as candidates for the Guilds slot.
Cards that use Ruins (Looters) and cards that use Spoils may only be submitted as candidates for a Dark Ages slot.
Traveller cards, Reserve cards, and cards making use of player Tokens may only be submitted as candidates for an Adventures slot.

Many mechanics are fair game for any submission. The following is an incomplete list.

Victory/Action and Victory/Treasure hybrid cards.
Cards that allow you to choose an ability from a list.
Cards with on-buy, would-gain, on-gain, and on-trash abilities.



Challenge #3: Event

Design an Event card that would fit into the Adventures expansion. Such a card could have one or more of the following qualities:

Interacts with player Tokens (possibly including new Tokens).
May only be bought once per turn.
Almost anything else (except mechanics reserved for other expansions).

Submissions are due by the end of Thursday, 2016-02-04.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 11:19:36 am by mith »
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 2: Event
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2016, 02:04:02 am »
0

Can we postpone this until after the votes are counted for the other Adventures contest?  I'd like to know what the winner is to (potentially) cover more bases and avoid overlap.
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 2: Event
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2016, 12:16:59 pm »
+2

That's a fair point. I will leave this open, but extend the deadline to one week after the end of Adventures voting (which officially closes on the 18th, but there is a very good chance I will be delayed in updating next week).

We'll run the Base contest this week.
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2016, 10:23:46 pm »
0

Extended deadline to February 4, in light of the voting changes for Adventures.
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2016, 05:39:39 pm »
0

Ok, for reals final deadline: February 10. Adventures winner will be up tomorrow sometime.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2016, 05:53:53 pm »
0

/tag
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2016, 12:09:01 pm »
0

One more day!
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2016, 01:05:03 pm »
+2

Sorry all, still having trouble keeping up with everything. :) I'll get the submissions up tonight or tomorrow though.
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2016, 06:28:46 pm »
+2

Quote
Artisan
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy
Gain a copy of the least expensive card you have in play.

Clarification: if several cards are tied for least expensive, you choose which one of them to gain a copy of.

Quote
Bootstraps
Types: Event
Cost: $6
Once per turn: Look through your discard pile. You may put a card from your discard pile into your hand. Play an Action card from your hand.

Quote
Border Crossing
Types: Event
Cost: $4
Move your Gaining token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may gain a cheaper card.)

Quote
Call to Arms
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Flip your Journey Token over (it starts face up)
If it's face up, each other player discards down to three cards. Gain a Gold for each card discarded in this way.

Quote
Discovery
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Gain an Action card costing up to $4.
Look through your discard pile and put a card from it on top of your deck.

Quote
Dragon's Offerings
Types: Event
Cost: $6
Trash a card costing less than this from the Supply. Put this in front of yourself. At the start of each of your turns, if this is in front of you, you may gain a non-Victory card costing less than a card another player gained on his previous turn.

Quote
Event
Types: Event
Cost: $1
Each other player gains a copper putting it into their hand.

Quote
Odyssey
Types: Event
Cost: $4
The player to your left moves your +1 Card and +1 Action tokens to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile, you first get +1 Card, +1 Action).

Quote
Plague
Types: Event
Cost: $0
Pay the cost of an action card in the supply to set it aside as a plague card. At the end of the game plague cards score an additional -1VP.

Clarification: Set aside cards never become part of any players deck.

Quote
Prediction
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
Look at the top card of your deck. You may put it on the bottom.

Quote
Refuge
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+2 Cards; +1 Buy
Once per turn: Each player (including you) may discard an Action card. If they do, they gain an Action card costing up to $5.

Clarification: You can only buy this once per turn.

Quote
Salvage Yard
Types: Event
Cost: $1
Discard any number of cards from your hand. Gain a card from the trash costing up to $2 per card discarded.

Quote
Time Walk
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Put your Duration token on a non-duration Action-supply pile. At the end of the turn, instead of discarding the action from play, set it aside and play the action again at the start of your turn, discarding it from play at the end of that turn.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2016, 09:22:17 pm »
+1

My quick initial reactions:

Artisan: looks nice for after you've trashed down.

Bootstraps: Play an action during your buy phase? doesn't work. nope.

Border Crossing: seems good.

Call to Arms: On buy/on gain discarding attacks have been shown to be unfun. This event is the same thing, even when slowed by the journey token. And the gold gaining would be crazy in multiplayer games.

Discovery: I like it. It's kind of overshadowed by Summon, but summon can be slightly OP anyway.

Dragon's Offerings: Doesn't look fun. Any why is the trashing from the supply on there?

Event: blah.

Odyssey: interesting. Depending on the kingdom, could still be way OP even with an opponent choosing the card.

Plague: I think this should have a set cost and not be cheap. If you win the curse split, you can make that difference even bigger. This is also really strong against Gardens, Goons, or Vineyard and probably others (unless you have good trashing with Goons). doesn't look fun.

Prediction: weak, but might be okay for those times when you have a coin left over. doesn't look interesting though.

Refuge: The trade-off for the gaining might be good, but it could do without the drawing in the buy phase.

Salvage Yard: Looks good for games with tfb or trashing attacks.

Time walk: I might like it if the duration token was a one-shot (gets removed after it turns the card into a duration once). But if the duration token stays, it could cost $8 and still might be broken.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 09:25:06 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2016, 10:43:57 pm »
0

Quote
Artisan
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy
Gain a copy of the least expensive card you have in play.

Clarification: if several cards are tied for least expensive, you choose which one of them to gain a copy of.

Nice idea, but maybe a little plain and probably very hard to use most of the time.

Quote
Bootstraps
Types: Event
Cost: $6
Once per turn: Look through your discard pile. You may put a card from your discard pile into your hand. Play an Action card from your hand.

I think this costs way too much.  When are you going to be willing to pay $6 and a buy just to draw and play something?  Even if you get the best card in your deck every time (which isn't guaranteed), you still only want this if the best card in your deck can generate at least +$6, +1 buy on average right?  Not to mention most of the things that action cards do are substantially worse in the buy phase.  +Actions does nothing, +cards does nothing since you can't play treasures anymore.  I have a hard time seeing any use for this.

Okay but let's say the price is bumped way down so it's reasonable balance-wise.  I'm still not really sold on the idea.  It just seems like it'll be too niche, but maybe there's something there.

Quote
Border Crossing
Types: Event
Cost: $4
Move your Gaining token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may gain a cheaper card.)

Cute name.  To be honest, I'm not a fan of tokens doing things when you buy cards from the pile, rather than play them.  I guess that means I'm also not a fan of the trashing token.  Not a bad idea though.

Quote
Call to Arms
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Flip your Journey Token over (it starts face up)
If it's face up, each other player discards down to three cards. Gain a Gold for each card discarded in this way.

I think this scales weirdly in multi-player.  Like, gaining four golds for two $5 buys is a lot, and six is insane, plus you get a discard attack too.  I guess it doesn't always work that way if someone else bought it before you in the same round.  Huh, that makes it more interesting I guess.

Quote
Discovery
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Gain an Action card costing up to $4.
Look through your discard pile and put a card from it on top of your deck.

I think this is too similar to Summon.  You get the added benefit of being able to choose any card to top-deck, but you don't get the pseudo +1 card, +1 action at the start of the next turn.

Quote
Dragon's Offerings
Types: Event
Cost: $6
Trash a card costing less than this from the Supply. Put this in front of yourself. At the start of each of your turns, if this is in front of you, you may gain a non-Victory card costing less than a card another player gained on his previous turn.

So I guess the trashing part is to make sure games don't stalemate.  It has sort of a funny interaction with Fortress.  I think the idea of making an event that you can buy from other players is clever, but I'm not so sure about this particular effect.  I'm worried that this card is going to feel bad like Possession, or make games stop, or both.  Either you feel bad about buying a good card because you know the other player is going to get a good card because of it, or you just have to keep buying this back from them.  I think it feels worse than Smugglers because you know it's happening every turn until you do something about it.

Quote
Event
Types: Event
Cost: $1
Each other player gains a copper putting it into their hand.

Seems interesting.  I'm not a huge fan of cheaper events, but I think this one is a pretty nice idea.

Quote
Odyssey
Types: Event
Cost: $4
The player to your left moves your +1 Card and +1 Action tokens to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile, you first get +1 Card, +1 Action).

I think this one might be my favorite.  There are probably a fair amount of boards where it's a dud, just because you don't want a cantrip version of the worst card.  But it seems like it will often change games in a way that makes them a lot more interesting by giving you reason to make use of otherwise bad cards.

Also, random note.  It's crazy that there is nothing alphabetically between "Event" and "Odyssey".

Quote
Plague
Types: Event
Cost: $0
Pay the cost of an action card in the supply to set it aside as a plague card. At the end of the game plague cards score an additional -1VP.

Clarification: Set aside cards never become part of any players deck.

I had a thing typed out about how this didn't work, but then I realized I was understanding it wrong.  I think I like this one a lot too.  It forces you to be careful about buying too many of one card.  I'm worried that it discourages you from buying action cards too much though, and also that it's going to be really powerful in the late game.

Quote
Prediction
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
Look at the top card of your deck. You may put it on the bottom.

Don't think it does enough to be worth paying $1 for.  Scouting Party seems generally better.  Either way, I don't think we need another Event to fill this role.

Quote
Refuge
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+2 Cards; +1 Buy
Once per turn: Each player (including you) may discard an Action card. If they do, they gain an Action card costing up to $5.

Clarification: You can only buy this once per turn.

Not really a fan of this one, not sure why.  Maybe it's good.

Quote
Salvage Yard
Types: Event
Cost: $1
Discard any number of cards from your hand. Gain a card from the trash costing up to $2 per card discarded.

I like this one.  A lot of times it won't do much (sometimes it'll do nothing at all, sort of like Conspirator, but that seems more acceptable for events).  But sometimes it'll give you interesting options in the late game especially.  The main concern is that it's too niche.  It could maybe cost $0 and/or give +1 buy.

Quote
Time Walk
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Put your Duration token on a non-duration Action-supply pile. At the end of the turn, instead of discarding the action from play, set it aside and play the action again at the start of your turn, discarding it from play at the end of that turn.

This one is pretty interesting and might be fun, but I think there will be too much confusion to be worthwhile.  Also I think it needs to cost a lot more than $5 but it's hard to say because it's such a unique effect.
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enfynet

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2016, 11:44:29 pm »
+1

I guess it will be obvious which card is mine now, but maybe I misunderstood some "hard coded" rule when I designed this...

The idea behind Bootstraps is to "reset" your turn. It's not cheap, but the implications is that you can do something better if you had another chance. Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, or so the saying goes.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2016, 12:42:51 am »
0

Plague: I think this should have a set cost and not be cheap. If you win the curse split, you can make that difference even bigger. This is also really strong against Gardens, Goons, or Vineyard and probably others (unless you have good trashing with Goons). doesn't look fun.

I think you missed that it only works on actions, which should take care of some of the problems you mentioned.  But yeah, a fixed price is simpler and maybe better anyway.

I guess it will be obvious which card is mine now, but maybe I misunderstood some "hard coded" rule when I designed this...

The idea behind Bootstraps is to "reset" your turn. It's not cheap, but the implications is that you can do something better if you had another chance. Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, or so the saying goes.

That makes more sense.  I don't think that's how it would work as worded though.  Having actions in your "action pool" doesn't let you play more actions during your buy phase, and you can't play more treasures after you've bought something.  So as written the only way you could play several actions is with things like Throne Room, Golem, Herald, etc., and the only real benefits you can get are from +$ and +buy, and "lasting" effects (like gaining, trashing, durations, etc.).

To make it work the way you want, you would have to say "you get another action phase" or something like that.  That version could be really interesting.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2016, 12:56:05 am »
0

Plague: I think this should have a set cost and not be cheap. If you win the curse split, you can make that difference even bigger. This is also really strong against Gardens, Goons, or Vineyard and probably others (unless you have good trashing with Goons). doesn't look fun.

I think you missed that it only works on actions, which should take care of some of the problems you mentioned.  But yeah, a fixed price is simpler and maybe better anyway.
oops. I take back what I said then.

enfynet

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2016, 12:58:19 am »
0

I guess it will be obvious which card is mine now, but maybe I misunderstood some "hard coded" rule when I designed this...

The idea behind Bootstraps is to "reset" your turn. It's not cheap, but the implications is that you can do something better if you had another chance. Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, or so the saying goes.

That makes more sense.  I don't think that's how it would work as worded though.  Having actions in your "action pool" doesn't let you play more actions during your buy phase, and you can't play more treasures after you've bought something.  So as written the only way you could play several actions is with things like Throne Room, Golem, Herald, etc., and the only real benefits you can get are from +$ and +buy, and "lasting" effects (like gaining, trashing, durations, etc.).

To make it work the way you want, you would have to say "you get another action phase" or something like that.  That version could be really interesting.
Well, that was roughly what the intention of the card is. I tend to use terms and phrases that already exist on words. This was something we don't have precedent for, so I went with something more familiar.

Is this a better way to say that?
Quote
Bootstraps
Types: Event
Cost: $6
Once per turn: Look through your discard pile. You may put a card from your discard pile into your hand. Return to your action phase and play an Action card from your hand.

It just feels like too many words. I think that would work though?
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enfynet

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2016, 03:28:36 am »
0

Quote
Artisan
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy
Gain a copy of the least expensive card you have in play.

Clarification: if several cards are tied for least expensive, you choose which one of them to gain a copy of.
This could be so swingy. You won't want it with Copper in play, so it probably isn't going to be a reliable gainer.

Quote
Bootstraps
Types: Event
Cost: $6
Once per turn: Look through your discard pile. You may put a card from your discard pile into your hand. Play an Action card from your hand.
As stated in a previous reply: The intention (and high cost, and once per turn) is to return to the action phase to possibly salvage an otherwise not-great turn. After reading comments it probably needs "+1 Buy" to actually work as a reset as well.

Quote
Border Crossing
Types: Event
Cost: $4
Move your Gaining token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may gain a cheaper card.)
New Token? I want to put that token on Border Village, and overpay on a Stonemason with Haggler in play...

Quote
Call to Arms
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Flip your Journey Token over (it starts face up)
If it's face up, each other player discards down to three cards. Gain a Gold for each card discarded in this way.
Wow, lots of Gold possible for $5. Ignoring cost, this would probably feel better if it didn't scale so much in multiplayer.

Quote
Discovery
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Gain an Action card costing up to $4.
Look through your discard pile and put a card from it on top of your deck.
Probably useful, but isn't very interesting otherwise.

Quote
Dragon's Offerings
Types: Event
Cost: $6
Trash a card costing less than this from the Supply. Put this in front of yourself. At the start of each of your turns, if this is in front of you, you may gain a non-Victory card costing less than a card another player gained on his previous turn.
So much... Is there a way to make this work without so many instructions.

Quote
Event
Types: Event
Cost: $1
Each other player gains a copper putting it into their hand.
So, junk the other player but give them more to spend this turn.

Quote
Odyssey
Types: Event
Cost: $4
The player to your left moves your +1 Card and +1 Action tokens to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile, you first get +1 Card, +1 Action).
Same supply pile, right? Would you buy a Scout?

Quote
Plague
Types: Event
Cost: $0
Pay the cost of an action card in the supply to set it aside as a plague card. At the end of the game plague cards score an additional -1VP.

Clarification: Set aside cards never become part of any players deck.
So this set-aside land is different than the player set-aside lands from Prince and Inheritance?

Quote
Prediction
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
Look at the top card of your deck. You may put it on the bottom.
I'm having trouble seeing the utility here.

Quote
Refuge
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+2 Cards; +1 Buy
Once per turn: Each player (including you) may discard an Action card. If they do, they gain an Action card costing up to $5.

Clarification: You can only buy this once per turn.
I'm getting AP just thinking about this card. Would definitely want on a board without villages.

Quote
Salvage Yard
Types: Event
Cost: $1
Discard any number of cards from your hand. Gain a card from the trash costing up to $2 per card discarded.
I think there should be a guaranteed way to trash cards.

Quote
Time Walk
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Put your Duration token on a non-duration Action-supply pile. At the end of the turn, instead of discarding the action from play, set it aside and play the action again at the start of your turn, discarding it from play at the end of that turn.
This could be fun. I'd like to see it in action though.
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Accatitippi

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2016, 04:46:56 am »
0

re: Refuge:
Am I wrong or is +2 cards useless in your buy phase? You can't play those cards even if they're treasures.
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spiralstaircase

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2016, 07:11:46 am »
0

Quote
Plague
Types: Event
Cost: $0
Pay the cost of an action card in the supply to set it aside as a plague card. At the end of the game plague cards score an additional -1VP.

Clarification: Set aside cards never become part of any players deck.

I think I must be understanding this wrongly.  Plague cards are worth -1VP, but are never in players' decks.  So set-aside-land is on negative VP?

Actually, while typing this out, I think maybe it means:

Quote
Pay the cost of an action card in the supply and set it aside.  Cards from that card's supply pile are Plague cards.  At the end of the game plague cards score an additional -1VP.

Is that right?
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2016, 07:47:59 am »
+1

Quote
Plague
Types: Event
Cost: $0
Pay the cost of an action card in the supply to set it aside as a plague card. At the end of the game plague cards score an additional -1VP.

Clarification: Set aside cards never become part of any players deck.

I think I must be understanding this wrongly.  Plague cards are worth -1VP, but are never in players' decks.  So set-aside-land is on negative VP?

Actually, while typing this out, I think maybe it means:

Quote
Pay the cost of an action card in the supply and set it aside.  Cards from that card's supply pile are Plague cards.  At the end of the game plague cards score an additional -1VP.

Is that right?

The way I understand it (and I'm pretty confident I'm right): You pay 4 coins to set aside a Smithy. (nowhere close to any deck, let's say on the plague mat). Every other Smithy that has been bought and stays in anybodies deck is worth -1VP at the end of the game.
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drsteelhammer

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2016, 07:48:43 am »
+1

re: Refuge:
Am I wrong or is +2 cards useless in your buy phase? You can't play those cards even if they're treasures.

I think this is supposed to be self-synergizing.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2016, 07:50:16 am »
0

re: Refuge:
Am I wrong or is +2 cards useless in your buy phase? You can't play those cards even if they're treasures.

I think this is supposed to be self-synergizing.
Oooh it would be fun, but:
"Clarification: You can only buy this once per turn."
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Fragasnap

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2016, 08:50:15 am »
0

I should be mentioned: I don't like Adventures very much or its Event tokens, so I am not likely to enjoy many of these cards.

Quote
Artisan
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy
Gain a copy of the least expensive card you have in play.

Clarification: if several cards are tied for least expensive, you choose which one of them to gain a copy of.
Issues with Potion-cost cards aside, similarities to Pilgrimage make this less than interesting.

Quote
Bootstraps
Types: Event
Cost: $6
Once per turn: Look through your discard pile. You may put a card from your discard pile into your hand. Play an Action card from your hand.
The concept of playing Actions in the Buy phase is not a particularly compelling one. The card has to: Order the deck, trash cards, gain cards, or give +$ and +Buys directly to be useful.
Even if it is supposed to "reset" you to your Action phase (which it doesn't, since it doesn't say that), then it still doesn't work very well since the played card needs to give +Buys to not neuter your turn.

Quote
Border Crossing
Types: Event
Cost: $4
Move your Gaining token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may gain a cheaper card.)
This just further incentivizes piling out a fairly expensive card that you already want to pile out.

Quote
Call to Arms
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Flip your Journey Token over (it starts face up)
If it's face up, each other player discards down to three cards. Gain a Gold for each card discarded in this way.
I'm going to assume we cap this properly so that a 4-player game doesn't have players gaining 6 Golds.

Quote
Discovery
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Gain an Action card costing up to $4.
Look through your discard pile and put a card from it on top of your deck.
Similarities to Summon make this fairly boring. The fact that it is not restricted to putting the gained card on top of your deck is insufficient to differentiate it.

Quote
Dragon's Offerings
Types: Event
Cost: $6
Trash a card costing less than this from the Supply. Put this in front of yourself. At the start of each of your turns, if this is in front of you, you may gain a non-Victory card costing less than a card another player gained on his previous turn.
The idea of using the Event itself as a token is clever, but this effect might not be a lot of fun to play with. Buying it from other players would probably be too automatic in 2-player (which is probably why it forces trashing from the Supply) and it might get into left-right binding territory in multiplayer.

Quote
Event
Types: Event
Cost: $1
Each other player gains a copper putting it into their hand.
Ha... Copper junking doesn't scale properly between player counts, and I don't think this does enough damage to be worth spending a Buy in Kingdoms where those +Buys are scarce.

Quote
Odyssey
Types: Event
Cost: $4
The player to your left moves your +1 Card and +1 Action tokens to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile, you first get +1 Card, +1 Action).
I like that it differentiates itself from other vanilla token bonuses by making another player place it. I'm not a huge fan of the token itself, but I think the placement mechanism is good enough.

Quote
Plague
Types: Event
Cost: $0
Pay the cost of an action card in the supply to set it aside as a plague card. At the end of the game plague cards score an additional -1VP.

Clarification: Set aside cards never become part of any players deck.
I do like that its effect compounds itself rather than replacing itself, so the card is probably not too automatic, but it ultimately discourages Actions, so no.

Quote
Prediction
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
Look at the top card of your deck. You may put it on the bottom.
As if Scouting Party wasn't underwhelming enough. The idea is likely that it can be bought with every extra coin, but I'm not a big fan of a card I'll simply buy because I have money.

Quote
Refuge
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+2 Cards; +1 Buy
Once per turn: Each player (including you) may discard an Action card. If they do, they gain an Action card costing up to $5.

Clarification: You can only buy this once per turn.
Drawing cards in the Buy phase is not very exciting because you can't do anything with the cards in your hand. In this case, it is digging for Action cards to discard so you can gain more Actions, but since you can only buy it once, I can't imagine ever buying it without already having an Action in my hand. (Also, the +Cards need to be under the "Once per turn" clause to actually be affected)

Quote
Salvage Yard
Types: Event
Cost: $1
Discard any number of cards from your hand. Gain a card from the trash costing up to $2 per card discarded.
So there is always the chance that there will be no good cards ending up in the trash, but is that a problem with an Event? It is not like we're reducing the size of the Kingdom.

Quote
Time Walk
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Put your Duration token on a non-duration Action-supply pile. At the end of the turn, instead of discarding the action from play, set it aside and play the action again at the start of your turn, discarding it from play at the end of that turn.
I'm not positive if this one works as written. The token does nothing but remind of an effect, but then it doesn't go away to stop reminding about it. It's probably stupidly strong if +Buys are available and only useful to swing up in economy crazily without them.

So for anyone keeping note, I like:
Odyssey
Salvage Yard
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 04:50:44 pm by Fragasnap »
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markusin

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2016, 03:47:45 pm »
0

Quote
Bootstraps
Types: Event
Cost: $6
Once per turn: Look through your discard pile. You may put a card from your discard pile into your hand. Return to your action phase and play an Action card from your hand.

It just feels like too many words. I think that would work though?

Instead of "play an Action card from your hand", can't you just have the event give +1 Action?
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markusin

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2016, 03:49:18 pm »
0

re: Refuge:
Am I wrong or is +2 cards useless in your buy phase? You can't play those cards even if they're treasures.

You can draw an Action card to discard with Refuge though. Plus cycling I guess.
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markusin

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2016, 03:52:30 pm »
0

re: Refuge:
Am I wrong or is +2 cards useless in your buy phase? You can't play those cards even if they're treasures.

I think this is supposed to be self-synergizing.
Oooh it would be fun, but:
"Clarification: You can only buy this once per turn."

Maybe it's better that way, since otherwise you can keep drawing Action cards over and over again if your deck is empty, thereby emptying Action supply piles in one turn.

Edit: Triple posting without giving my thoughts? Uh, I guess I'm lazier these days. I like Artisan, Border Crossing, and Salvage Yard the most. Maybe Discovery would be better if it costs $4 and gained a $3 card to differentiate it from Summon. $3 cost cards are often pretty good purchases for $4 anyway. That's not the case when buying a $4 for $5 all that often.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 04:00:17 pm by markusin »
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2016, 09:16:58 pm »
+1

I didn't submit anything!  I just didn't have any ideas that I liked this time around.

Quote
Artisan
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy
Gain a copy of the least expensive card you have in play.

Clarification: if several cards are tied for least expensive, you choose which one of them to gain a copy of.

This is a neat cost reduction card.  It reduces a target card exactly to $2, which can be huge, but it (usually?) takes effort to make it work.  Only working on a card in play prevents abuse with big VP cards.

The strongest interaction is with coin-producing cards, especially non-terminal ones.  With this event available, every copy of Grand Market will buy another GM, so as long as you don't play something cheaper.  Since GM produces +$2 on its own, you don't need to play anything else.

Also, a single Platinum will allow you to buy two more.

I'm not sure if that should be considered a bug or a feature.  I still like this event a lot though.

Quote
Bootstraps
Types: Event
Cost: $6
Once per turn: Look through your discard pile. You may put a card from your discard pile into your hand. Play an Action card from your hand.

I don't really like the idea of playing an action card during the buy phase.  $6 is also really expensive for this.  I can't really imagine a scenario (apart from weird edge cases) where I would want to pay $6 just to play another action.  In most cases, I don't think a single additional Action is going to make up for the cost of $6 and 1 buy.  If it will, that Action is probably a King's Court that leads into a big chain... but then we're talking about an engine that probably should be able to run without needing Bootstraps.  Maybe I'm missing something here.

Quote
Border Crossing
Types: Event
Cost: $4
Move your Gaining token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may gain a cheaper card.)

Sounds reasonable.  I don't have a lot to say about this one.

Quote
Call to Arms
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Flip your Journey Token over (it starts face up)
If it's face up, each other player discards down to three cards. Gain a Gold for each card discarded in this way.

I think this starts strong and scales poorly.  In 2p, I'm usually gaining 2 Gold from this.  That's already really good!  You're essentially buying two Gold for $5 each and getting an unblockable discard attack for free.  But in 4p, you're gaining up to 6 Gold.  That's ridiculous.  It also adds to first player advantage with 3+ players, since the first person to trigger this will weaken the effect if a following player also goes for it.

I like the idea of a powerful event that changes up play style, but making the game into a discard-heavy Gold flood doesn't sound all that fun to me.

Quote
Discovery
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Gain an Action card costing up to $4.
Look through your discard pile and put a card from it on top of your deck.

It's Armory+ as an Event.  Sounds reasonable, but it doesn't interest me.

Quote
Dragon's Offerings
Types: Event
Cost: $6
Trash a card costing less than this from the Supply. Put this in front of yourself. At the start of each of your turns, if this is in front of you, you may gain a non-Victory card costing less than a card another player gained on his previous turn.

This feels overly complicated for what it does.  It works for cards gained by any other player, something that Smugglers is deliberately worded to avoid (probably due to increased tracking difficulties).  The king-of-the-hill nature of it also feels un-Dominion-ly to me. 

I think there's a real danger of it having Fancy Balance Issues.  The ideal case would be that it has value in picking up some extra engine components ($5s especially would be cool), enough to make the $6 investment an efficient one.  If the potential value is low, people will just buy Gold or $5 kingdom cards directly instead.  But if the potential value is high, I imagine people will just fight over it, and then everybody loses.  I can't afford to let you gain so many free engine components so I need to buy this away from you.  If I do it soon enough, your investment is wasted.  And if you buy it back from me (because you also can't afford to let me get a bunch of free components) then my investment is wasted.  And so on until somebody whiffs or the game ends from piles being trashed out.

Quote
Event
Types: Event
Cost: $1
Each other player gains a copper putting it into their hand.

Unrestricted Copper attacks already scale poorly due to the size of the Copper pile.  Making it available as a cheap Event probably makes it much worse, if the scrapped on-gain discard attack (mentioned in the Secret Histories of Hinterland) is any indication.

Quote
Odyssey
Types: Event
Cost: $4
The player to your left moves your +1 Card and +1 Action tokens to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile, you first get +1 Card, +1 Action).

Hard to say, but I feel like this would be a very binary card.  Either it's totally worthless (when there is a bad target on the board, like Chapel) or it's amazing (and it would be amazing on most cards).  Pathfinding is $8 and Lost Arts is $6.  Even with an opponent choosing, I think this would have to cost at least $6, probably $8+.

Quote
Plague
Types: Event
Cost: $0
Pay the cost of an action card in the supply to set it aside as a plague card. At the end of the game plague cards score an additional -1VP.

Clarification: Set aside cards never become part of any players deck.

I'm going to assume that the wording is inaccurate and that all copies of the set aside card should be affected.  I'd recommend specifying that the card gets set aside under the Plague Event.

I think the idea is interesting, but this version ends up being political.  I can't think of a good way to fix it.

Quote
Prediction
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy
Look at the top card of your deck. You may put it on the bottom.

I have a soft spot for effects that let you selectively put cards together for a future turn.  I like it, but I think this could be buffed to be more impactful.  Maybe something like, "+2 Cards, put a card from your hand on the bottom of your deck".

Quote
Refuge
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+2 Cards; +1 Buy
Once per turn: Each player (including you) may discard an Action card. If they do, they gain an Action card costing up to $5.

Clarification: You can only buy this once per turn.

I think this could be cool.  Make good use of a dead action in hand, or gamble on drawing one with the Event if you don't have one already.  Other players get to discard to gain as well, but the cost is (hopefully) higher for them than for you.

Quote
Salvage Yard
Types: Event
Cost: $1
Discard any number of cards from your hand. Gain a card from the trash costing up to $2 per card discarded.

This card is ambiguously worded.  I discard 2 cards.  Now, do I:

A) gain 1 card from the trash costing up to $4; or
B) gain 2 cards costing up to $2 each?

I assume A is intended because B would be terrible.

The problem with this event is that the trash usually doesn't have good stuff in it.  That's why Rogue is also a trashing attack and Graverobber makes it more likely that good cards get trashed.

Quote
Time Walk
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Put your Duration token on a non-duration Action-supply pile. At the end of the turn, instead of discarding the action from play, set it aside and play the action again at the start of your turn, discarding it from play at the end of that turn.

I think this is comparable to Lost Arts in a lot of ways, so it should cost at least $6.  Other than that, I think it sounds alright.  I don't understand the name.
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2016, 09:22:22 pm »
0

Discovery: I like it. It's kind of overshadowed by Summon, but summon can be slightly OP anyway.

Oh, I already thought Discovery was kind of boring.  I didn't even think of the similarity to Summon.

I guess it will be obvious which card is mine now, but maybe I misunderstood some "hard coded" rule when I designed this...

The idea behind Bootstraps is to "reset" your turn. It's not cheap, but the implications is that you can do something better if you had another chance. Pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, or so the saying goes.

Ahh.  Yeah, Bootstraps as submitted doesn't do what you want.  With that in mind... I'm still not really a fan.  For this "reset" to be worthwhile you still need to generate more than $6, and this will be without all the cards you played in your first go at it.  It seems really niche, and it just extends the downtime for other players.
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Accatitippi

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2016, 02:08:28 am »
+1

Quote
Hard to say, but I feel like this would be a very binary card.
Either it's totally worthless (when there is a bad target on
the board, like Chapel) or it's amazing (and it would be
amazing on most cards).  Pathfinding is $8 and Lost Arts is
$6.  Even with an opponent choosing, I think this would have
to cost at least $6, probably $8+.
I'm a big fan of Odyssey (except for the name, actually), and I think 4c for it is a fair price, since it's an event that's much worse the later you get it (since you already have built some). In a similar way to Chapel, it's much more fun if you sell it for cheap, as knowing exactly what is the board layout before you start committing to a plan is simply more interesting.
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2016, 06:17:08 am »
0

Odyssey and Border Crossing seem the most interesting to me, not to mention that they make sense thematically (which is a big one for me in a game which features a lot of unthematic cards). Border Crossing is probably well-priced but Odyssey is an Event I am not sure about so I think that it would have to be playtested intensively until one could settle at a balanced cost.
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trivialknot

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2016, 09:39:57 pm »
0

Quote
Bootstraps
Types: Event
Cost: $6
Once per turn: Look through your discard pile. You may put a card from your discard pile into your hand. Play an Action card from your hand.
I had an idea for an event that was similar to this.  My event would give you an extra turn, but skip your cleanup phase (discarding no cards from your hand or from play, and drawing no new cards).  In effect, it was an +Action event.  I priced it at $2, although I never playtested it.

Compared to my card, I don't really like this one.  It's prohibitively expensive, it depends on your discard, and it's confusing rules-wise.  But obviously I like the underlying idea of buying actions with an event.  It's like a coin of the realm that you don't even have to buy.  Suddenly you can make a deck with nothing but terminal draw and money.

Quote
Dragon's Offerings
Types: Event
Cost: $6
Trash a card costing less than this from the Supply. Put this in front of yourself. At the start of each of your turns, if this is in front of you, you may gain a non-Victory card costing less than a card another player gained on his previous turn.
This seems highly game-warping.  If anyone buys it, nobody can ignore it.  I don't really like the unignorable aspect.  The supply-trashing seems designed to end games, but if it really comes to ending the game that way I think maybe the game isn't fun anymore.

Quote
Odyssey
Types: Event
Cost: $4
The player to your left moves your +1 Card and +1 Action tokens to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile, you first get +1 Card, +1 Action).
Finally, the scout buff we've all been waiting for.  Hmmm... an even better target would be Prince.

Quote
Plague
Types: Event
Cost: $0
Pay the cost of an action card in the supply to set it aside as a plague card. At the end of the game plague cards score an additional -1VP.

Clarification: Set aside cards never become part of any players deck.
Like a previous commenter, I prefer a set price rather than a variable price.  Plague certainly isn't stronger when placed on expensive cards, if anything it's weaker.  But I think this is an interesting event.  It incentivizes variety with VP.  In multiplayer, you want someone else to spend their money on it.

Quote
Time Walk
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Put your Duration token on a non-duration Action-supply pile. At the end of the turn, instead of discarding the action from play, set it aside and play the action again at the start of your turn, discarding it from play at the end of that turn.
Playing an extra action without having to draw it or spend an action, it's like Pathfinding and Lost Arts put together.  I don't think there's any correct price point for that.  I am also confused about the rules for one-shots.

I wanted to comment on other cards but I have to go right now.
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2016, 04:40:34 am »
+1

I want to comment on what I consider to be the most interesting card, Odyssey. The issue of the card is that it is on the one hand, as Accatitippi has pointed out, something you wanna get very early before you have committed yourself so it should cost 4$ and on the other hand, as eHalcyon has pointed out, potentially very powerful and thus too cheap for 4$.

I quickly went over all Dominion cards and conservatively (i.e. including rather too many than too few) picked out the ones which I guess will benefit the least from getting cantrip-ified:

Base: Chapel, Workshop, Bureaucrat, Feast, Thief, Library, Mine, Adventurer
Intrigue: Baron, Coppersmith
Seaside: Smugglers, Island, Salvager, Treasure Map, Explorer, Outpost, Tactician
Alchemy: Transmute, Possession
Prosperity: Watchtower, Bishop, Counting House, Mint, Expand, Forge
Cornucopia: -
Hinterlands: Jack of all Trades, Noble Brigand
Dark Ages: Beggar, Death Cart, Graverobber, Pillage, Altar
Guilds: Stonemason, Merchant Guild
Adventures: Duplicate, Transmogrify, Distant Lands
Promos: Prince

About potential pattern: one-shots and very expensive cards (>6$) do not get played that often, some cards with weak effects are in there (Thief, Transmute, Stonemason) and cards of which you never want a lot even if they are cantrip-ified (Counting House, Outpost, Tactician).
My conservative pick includes about 40 cards out of roughly 240 Kingdom cards so 1 in every 6 cards would not benefit that much from Odyssey.

Please note again that this is a conservative pick so there might be ample of cards in there which others might consider to benefit significantly from getting cantrip-ified. For example Adventurer becomes a GM without the extra buy so you could argue that it doesn't belong on the  list. Coppersmith and Salvager are also dubious choices, cantripified Jack of all Trades might just become an even more straightforward BM enabler, Noble Brigands becomes a Peddler with a bonus and so on.

So after going very quickly over all cards to get a rough idea of the ratio I gotta agree with eHalcyon, there are too few cards which do not massively benefit from being cantrip-ified which is why Odyssey might have to cost more.
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Accatitippi

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2016, 05:40:12 am »
+1

I want to comment on what I consider to be the most interesting card, Odyssey. The issue of the card is that it is on the one hand, as Accatitippi has pointed out, something you wanna get very early before you have committed yourself so it should cost 4$ and on the other hand, as eHalcyon has pointed out, potentially very powerful and thus too cheap for 4$.

I quickly went over all Dominion cards and conservatively (i.e. including rather too many than too few) picked out the ones which I guess will benefit the least from getting cantrip-ified:

Base: Chapel, Workshop, Bureaucrat, Feast, Thief, Library, Mine, Adventurer
Intrigue: Baron, Coppersmith
Seaside: Smugglers, Island, Salvager, Treasure Map, Explorer, Outpost, Tactician
Alchemy: Transmute, Possession
Prosperity: Watchtower, Bishop, Counting House, Mint, Expand, Forge
Cornucopia: -
Hinterlands: Jack of all Trades, Noble Brigand
Dark Ages: Beggar, Death Cart, Graverobber, Pillage, Altar
Guilds: Stonemason, Merchant Guild
Adventures: Duplicate, Transmogrify, Distant Lands
Promos: Prince

About potential pattern: one-shots and very expensive cards (>6$) do not get played that often, some cards with weak effects are in there (Thief, Transmute, Stonemason) and cards of which you never want a lot even if they are cantrip-ified (Counting House, Outpost, Tactician).
My conservative pick includes about 40 cards out of roughly 240 Kingdom cards so 1 in every 6 cards would not benefit that much from Odyssey.

Please note again that this is a conservative pick so there might be ample of cards in there which others might consider to benefit significantly from getting cantrip-ified. For example Adventurer becomes a GM without the extra buy so you could argue that it doesn't belong on the  list. Coppersmith and Salvager are also dubious choices, cantripified Jack of all Trades might just become an even more straightforward BM enabler, Noble Brigands becomes a Peddler with a bonus and so on.

So after going very quickly over all cards to get a rough idea of the ratio I gotta agree with eHalcyon, there are too few cards which do not massively benefit from being cantrip-ified which is why Odyssey might have to cost more.

I do not totally agree with your list, since for example I would include most mandatory trashers, and exclude some stuff like Merchant Guild or Duplicates which are crazy in multiples. Anyway, going with your estimate of "1/6 of cards are weak Odyssey targets", the probability of not hitting any of those in any given kingdom is roughly 16% (I simply did 5/6^10), which is acceptably low, considering that even on a kingdom exclusively made of awesome targets, you opponent will make sure to offer you the one that works worst with the other cards.
Yes, at 4 on some boards it will be a no-brainer, but on those very boards the decision of what to Odissey is extremely interesting and game-defining, and for me this more than makes up for it to be a easy buy on some boards. If it were more expensive (say costing 6, since I can see 5 working out allright), the boards with obvious targets will suffer because nobody will buy Odyssey (while at four I might decide that cantrip adventurers are worth skipping an early buy, wasting an adventurer buy to cantripize adventurers is a much easier offer to turn off), and at the same time the all-stars boards will also get less interesting, since the Odyssey result won't affect your deck planning and building nearly as much.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 05:41:41 am by Accatitippi »
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2016, 06:16:34 am »
+1

I want to comment on what I consider to be the most interesting card, Odyssey. The issue of the card is that it is on the one hand, as Accatitippi has pointed out, something you wanna get very early before you have committed yourself so it should cost 4$ and on the other hand, as eHalcyon has pointed out, potentially very powerful and thus too cheap for 4$.

I quickly went over all Dominion cards and conservatively (i.e. including rather too many than too few) picked out the ones which I guess will benefit the least from getting cantrip-ified:

Base: Chapel, Workshop, Bureaucrat, Feast, Thief, Library, Mine, Adventurer
Intrigue: Baron, Coppersmith
Seaside: Smugglers, Island, Salvager, Treasure Map, Explorer, Outpost, Tactician
Alchemy: Transmute, Possession
Prosperity: Watchtower, Bishop, Counting House, Mint, Expand, Forge
Cornucopia: -
Hinterlands: Jack of all Trades, Noble Brigand
Dark Ages: Beggar, Death Cart, Graverobber, Pillage, Altar
Guilds: Stonemason, Merchant Guild
Adventures: Duplicate, Transmogrify, Distant Lands
Promos: Prince

About potential pattern: one-shots and very expensive cards (>6$) do not get played that often, some cards with weak effects are in there (Thief, Transmute, Stonemason) and cards of which you never want a lot even if they are cantrip-ified (Counting House, Outpost, Tactician).
My conservative pick includes about 40 cards out of roughly 240 Kingdom cards so 1 in every 6 cards would not benefit that much from Odyssey.

Please note again that this is a conservative pick so there might be ample of cards in there which others might consider to benefit significantly from getting cantrip-ified. For example Adventurer becomes a GM without the extra buy so you could argue that it doesn't belong on the  list. Coppersmith and Salvager are also dubious choices, cantripified Jack of all Trades might just become an even more straightforward BM enabler, Noble Brigands becomes a Peddler with a bonus and so on.

So after going very quickly over all cards to get a rough idea of the ratio I gotta agree with eHalcyon, there are too few cards which do not massively benefit from being cantrip-ified which is why Odyssey might have to cost more.

I do not totally agree with your list, since for example I would include most mandatory trashers, and exclude some stuff like Merchant Guild or Duplicates which are crazy in multiples. Anyway, going with your estimate of "1/6 of cards are weak Odyssey targets", the probability of not hitting any of those in any given kingdom is roughly 16% (I simply did 5/6^10), which is acceptably low, considering that even on a kingdom exclusively made of awesome targets, you opponent will make sure to offer you the one that works worst with the other cards.
Yes, at 4 on some boards it will be a no-brainer, but on those very boards the decision of what to Odissey is extremely interesting and game-defining, and for me this more than makes up for it to be a easy buy on some boards. If it were more expensive (say costing 6, since I can see 5 working out allright), the boards with obvious targets will suffer because nobody will buy Odyssey (while at four I might decide that cantrip adventurers are worth skipping an early buy, wasting an adventurer buy to cantripize adventurers is a much easier offer to turn off), and at the same time the all-stars boards will also get less interesting, since the Odyssey result won't affect your deck planning and building nearly as much.
About the list, I did not put a lot of thought in it so I think that one could easily come up with a far more precise list.
About the probability, 16% is indeed fairly small. But I think my list is fairly conservative so if e.g. half of the cards on the list are actually decent when they are cantrip-ified we would end up with 20/240 = 1/12 and a probability of 40% to not hit any of them in a Kingdom.
I agree that Odyssey should be tested at a cost of 4 or 5. 6 is definitely too high. Pathfinding and Lost Arts change cards of which you already have some in your deck whereas with Recover your opponent will choose a card which you do not have. Even if its cantripified version is pretty good it might be too late in the game to get enough of them and benefit from your investment into Recover.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2016, 05:00:14 pm »
+1

I agree with some of the points being made about Odyssey.  It is certainly different enough that it's not obvious how it should be priced.  But I think $4 is a good place to start testing.  With any card in Dominion, and I think even more so with events, it's more important for a card to be fun than to be balanced.  Usually being priced "fairly" makes the card more fun, but not always.  Chapel is probably cheaper than the "fair" price, but Donald decided it was more fun overall for it to cost $2.

So even if Odyssey is going to be super-strong sometimes at $4, I think that the $4 price is overall more fun than a $6+ price.  I think the times when it will add the most to the game are the times when it will make you go for a card that you wouldn't normally go for.  As an example let's say Mine.  If Odyssey costs $4, you can open with it, and it's not so bad, you just spent $4 to cantripify Mine, and you can play the rest of the game with cantrip Mine.  If it costs $6+, you have to wait until you can get it, and by then, it's probably not worth spending that much just to cantripify a card you're not excited about anyway.  So I think the most interesting case (when there's a borderline-level target) goes away when Odyssey is too expensive.

Now in the crazier case, where the targets are all strong when cantripified, Odyssey feels underpriced at $4, but I think a lower price still makes the game overall more fun.  If it costs $6+, whoever can spike Odyssey first is at a huge advantage, because they know what card is going to be cantripified earlier, and can load up on them sooner.  I think giving both players the opportunity to open with it reduces the swinginess and gives players the opportunity to plan early on how to take advantage of the cantrip card.

Now maybe there's an argument that having to adapt part-way through to whatever the opponent names makes it more fun.  I think that's a good argument for a higher price actually, but that's just in the case that there's no good target (or bad target depending on whose perspective you're looking at it from).  But I think the lower price would make Odyssey games better overall.
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Accatitippi

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2016, 05:19:58 pm »
+1

Yes, I agree that an expensive Odyssey would be very swingy on a board with no bad targets:
A spikes 6 turn 3, gets Card X Odysseyed. Starts loading up on it.
B gets to 6 turn 8, but hey, only four copies of Card X are left. He doesn't even bother buying Odyssey, since now there's an obvious target.
And if B bought more Xs before Odysseying, A would just choose another card and leave him with a deck full of mediocrity.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2016, 05:24:23 pm »
+1

The thing is though, Odyssey is sometimes useless if they use it on Chapel, Remake (because trashing isn't optional), Ruins (they're an action supply pile), Thief, Prince, Feast, Treasure Map (maybe), etc.

I still like it. It might be a tad cooler (but weaker) if your opponent could move the tokens to different piles, but maybe not.
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Accatitippi

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2016, 05:48:25 pm »
+2

The thing is though, Odyssey is sometimes useless if they use it on Chapel, Remake (because trashing isn't optional), Ruins (they're an action supply pile), Thief, Prince, Feast, Treasure Map (maybe), etc.

I still like it. It might be a tad cooler (but weaker) if your opponent could move the tokens to different piles, but maybe not.

Sign me up for cantrip ruins any time!  ;D

"then I play a Peddler, drawing a Market Square, which I play, oh nice, a Lab, and what do we have here, a Village and a Pearl Diver that actually does something! And with all those +Buys, I think I'll get a bunch more of these free useless cantrips, please."
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2016, 06:11:32 pm »
0

The thing is though, Odyssey is sometimes useless if they use it on Chapel, Remake (because trashing isn't optional), Ruins (they're an action supply pile), Thief, Prince, Feast, Treasure Map (maybe), etc.

I still like it. It might be a tad cooler (but weaker) if your opponent could move the tokens to different piles, but maybe not.

Sign me up for cantrip ruins any time!  ;D

"then I play a Peddler, drawing a Market Square, which I play, oh nice, a Lab, and what do we have here, a Village and a Pearl Diver that actually does something! And with all those +Buys, I think I'll get a bunch more of these free useless cantrips, please."
Hmmm, good point. But would it apply to all those Ruins or just the named one? Same issue with Knights...
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2016, 06:37:48 pm »
0

Hmmm, good point. But would it apply to all those Ruins or just the named one? Same issue with Knights...

They're all from the same pile, so yes it works.



Re: price, there's a cost between $4 and $6+, guys...
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2016, 03:03:27 am »
+1

I agree with some of the points being made about Odyssey.  It is certainly different enough that it's not obvious how it should be priced.  But I think $4 is a good place to start testing.  With any card in Dominion, and I think even more so with events, it's more important for a card to be fun than to be balanced.  Usually being priced "fairly" makes the card more fun, but not always.  Chapel is probably cheaper than the "fair" price, but Donald decided it was more fun overall for it to cost $2.

So even if Odyssey is going to be super-strong sometimes at $4, I think that the $4 price is overall more fun than a $6+ price.  I think the times when it will add the most to the game are the times when it will make you go for a card that you wouldn't normally go for.  As an example let's say Mine.  If Odyssey costs $4, you can open with it, and it's not so bad, you just spent $4 to cantripify Mine, and you can play the rest of the game with cantrip Mine.  If it costs $6+, you have to wait until you can get it, and by then, it's probably not worth spending that much just to cantripify a card you're not excited about anyway.  So I think the most interesting case (when there's a borderline-level target) goes away when Odyssey is too expensive.

Now in the crazier case, where the targets are all strong when cantripified, Odyssey feels underpriced at $4, but I think a lower price still makes the game overall more fun.  If it costs $6+, whoever can spike Odyssey first is at a huge advantage, because they know what card is going to be cantripified earlier, and can load up on them sooner.  I think giving both players the opportunity to open with it reduces the swinginess and gives players the opportunity to plan early on how to take advantage of the cantrip card.

Now maybe there's an argument that having to adapt part-way through to whatever the opponent names makes it more fun.  I think that's a good argument for a higher price actually, but that's just in the case that there's no good target (or bad target depending on whose perspective you're looking at it from).  But I think the lower price would make Odyssey games better overall.
This. I totally agree that one should start to test at the lower price, i.e. 4$.
The only slight disagreement I have is that a Kingdom in which there is an obvious choice for Odyssey might not be "fun" as it might be too scripted if Odyssey is too cheap. Everybody will buy it on turn 1 or 2 and then rush-pile the cantrip-ified card.
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2016, 11:10:53 am »
+1

Preliminary Results:

Odyssey - 19
Border Crossing - 13
Plague - 9
Artisan - 7
Salvage Yard - 6

Discovery - 5
Refuge - 5
Time Walk - 5
Event - 3
Bootstraps - 2
Call to Arms - 2
Prediction - 2
Dragon's Offerings - 1
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Voting!)
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2016, 11:12:19 am »
0

Quote
Artisan
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy
Gain a copy of the least expensive card you have in play.

Clarification: if several cards are tied for least expensive, you choose which one of them to gain a copy of.

Quote
Border Crossing
Types: Event
Cost: $4
Move your Gaining token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may gain a cheaper card.)

Quote
Odyssey
Types: Event
Cost: $4
The player to your left moves your +1 Card and +1 Action tokens to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile, you first get +1 Card, +1 Action).

Quote
Plague
Types: Event
Cost: $0
Pay the cost of an action card in the supply to set it aside as a plague card. At the end of the game plague cards score an additional -1VP.

Clarification: Set aside cards never become part of any players deck.

Quote
Salvage Yard
Types: Event
Cost: $1
Discard any number of cards from your hand. Gain a card from the trash costing up to $2 per card discarded.
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Finalists!)
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2016, 01:34:56 pm »
0

I just noticed that I failed to copy the voting instructions. Here they are, in case anyone wasn't sure what to do:

Submit your votes to me via this forum's messaging system. To vote, give each card a score from 0 to 10. (It is recommended, but not required, that you give at least one card a 0 and at least one card a 10, to maximize your voting input.) The winner will be the card with the highest sum. Feel free to discuss the cards (but not your scores) in this thread.

I will extend voting for another two days.
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Finalists!)
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2016, 05:16:18 am »
0

Just a short note, I think that Border Crossing could be tried with gain instead of buy. Concerning balance, as most of the times you gain a card except via buying it costs 4$ or less I doubt that this makes the event that much better (such that it could be too cheap for 5$).
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King Leon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Finalists!)
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2016, 05:49:53 pm »
0

We should also add any trashing effect to Salvage Yard, so that this event is not a dead card, when no trashers are in the kindom.

What about:
Salvage Yard
Types: Event
Cost: $1
Choose one:

Discard any number of cards from your hand. Gain a card from the trash costing up to $2 per card discarded.

or

Trash a card from your hand.
You may a card costing less, which is not a Victory card.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 02:13:19 pm by King Leon »
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Finalists!)
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2016, 11:18:53 am »
+3

Results:

Odyssey (scott_pilgrim) - 77
Border Crossing (spiralstaircase) - 49
Artisan (Accatitippi) - 41
Salvage Yard (LibraryAdventurer) - 41
Plague (RobertJ) - 21

Clear winner here, congrats scott_pilgrim!
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Beyond Awesome

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 3: Event (Finalists!)
« Reply #46 on: March 09, 2016, 12:50:14 am »
+2

Results:

Odyssey (scott_pilgrim) - 77
Border Crossing (spiralstaircase) - 49
Artisan (Accatitippi) - 41
Salvage Yard (LibraryAdventurer) - 41
Plague (RobertJ) - 21

Clear winner here, congrats scott_pilgrim!

Congrats scott pilgrim!
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