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Author Topic: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 0.8: Guilds Runoff  (Read 1229 times)

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mith

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2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 0.8: Guilds Runoff
« on: January 11, 2016, 10:11:25 pm »
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This is a runoff to select a winner from the finalists of the 2014 Guilds contest. The finalists were:

Quote
Barber
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Choose one: Discard any number of cards and take a Coin token per card discarded; or pay any number of Coin tokens and +1 Card per token paid.

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Dancer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. Take a Coin token. You may pay any number of Coin tokens. For each token you paid, +1 Action.

When you gain this, take a Coin token.

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Porter
Types: Action
Cost: $2+
+1 Card. +1 Action. You may put any number of cards from your hand on top of your deck.

When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, set aside the top card of your deck, putting it into your hand at the start of your next turn.

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Royal Guard
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Choose one: Take a Coin token; or pay any number of Coin tokens and +$2 per token paid.

When any player (including you) plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, take 2 Coin tokens.

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Town Hall
Types: Action
Cost: $2+
+3 Actions.

When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, choose a card you have in play. If you discard that card this turn, put it on top of your deck.

Submit your votes to me via this forum's messaging system. To vote, give each card a score from 0 to 10. (It is recommended, but not required, that you give at least one card a 0 and at least one card a 10, to maximize your voting input.) The winner will be the card with the highest sum. Feel free to discuss the cards (but not your scores) in this thread.
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Fragasnap

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 0.8: Guilds Runoff
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2016, 07:59:42 am »
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Quote
Barber
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Choose one: Discard any number of cards and take a Coin token per card discarded; or pay any number of Coin tokens and +1 Card per token paid.
I've come to think Barber is super strong, simply because one can discard the entire hand for 4 Coin tokens. I'm not convinced that Barber needs to be non-terminal nor that it isn't strong enough to cost less than $5, terminal or not.

Quote
Dancer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. Take a Coin token. You may pay any number of Coin tokens. For each token you paid, +1 Action.

When you gain this, take a Coin token.
When I first looked at it I thought that the card was supposed to be a splitter, but it is so expensive such that it is likely rarely worth doing that. It is instead its flexibility that makes it interesting, since it can be played as a cantrip when needed, but becomes a Baker when it isn't. In this variability, Dancer reminds me very much of Hamlet and Pawn. However to make it more interesting, rather than simply costing $2 it costs $4 and comes with a Coin token on-gain. The on-gain ability first struck me as superfluous, but on reflection that ability makes Dancer more usable as a splitter and an overall more thought-provoking card than a simple cost of $2 without the on-gain.

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Porter
Types: Action
Cost: $2+
+1 Card. +1 Action. You may put any number of cards from your hand on top of your deck.

When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, set aside the top card of your deck, putting it into your hand at the start of your next turn.
Porter seems to exist entirely to set up more purchases of Porter for its on-buy effect. I'm not sure how I like its scaling (since there are fewer times it can be used by each player in multiplayer), but it is the most unique card of these.

Quote
Royal Guard
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Choose one: Take a Coin token; or pay any number of Coin tokens and +$2 per token paid.

When any player (including you) plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, take 2 Coin tokens.
I don't like how this repurposes Coin tokens. Since Royal Guard literally doubles the value of your Coin tokens, it seems like one would simply avoid ever spending Coin tokens without having a Royal Guard to increase them, making Coin tokens feel less flexible. I like the reaction quite a lot.

Quote
Town Hall
Types: Action
Cost: $2+
+3 Actions.

When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, choose a card you have in play. If you discard that card this turn, put it on top of your deck.
I don't like a vanilla +3 Actions. I've played with cards with that effect before and it is very feast or famine which makes it frustrating to play. The on-buy is nice, and I suppose is the focus as the effect is so vanilla.

I might expand some thoughts later.
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 0.8: Guilds Runoff
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2016, 05:46:42 pm »
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One of these is mine.  I just read through all the Adventures submissions so I don't really want to think too hard on these ones now.  I'm just going to copy+paste from the original contest.

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Barber
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Choose one: Discard any number of cards and take a Coin token per card discarded; or pay any number of Coin tokens and +1 Card per token paid.

The action itself is fairly interesting.  SC for coin tokens is a good concept, and the additional card draw option adds some interesting symmetry.  The flexibility on top of being non-terminal makes me think that it is undercosted at $4, but the concept seems sound to me.

Quote
Dancer
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Card. Take a Coin token. You may pay any number of Coin tokens. For each token you paid, +1 Action.

When you gain this, take a Coin token.

Pay for actions.  Pretty basic idea, and I think it works alright here.  It could probably do with a cost reduction, considering you need to pay $1 just to match a regular Village.  Hmm, not sure though.  I suppose the author made it $4 because it's a lot like Baker, except without the free +1 action and gaining the possibility of multiple +actions.  Even so, I think this might work at $3, even factoring in the on-gain.

The on-gain actually makes a 4/3 split different from a 3/4 split.  The 4/3 can open double Dancer while the 3/4 can't.  That said, it's probably a bad idea to open with Dancer so it's not a big deal.

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Porter
Types: Action
Cost: $2+
+1 Card. +1 Action. You may put any number of cards from your hand on top of your deck.

When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, set aside the top card of your deck, putting it into your hand at the start of your next turn.

Hmm, that's actually kind of interesting.  Definitely feels like a Guilds card.  Like other cheap overpay cards, the main action is something that seems weak in general but can be situationally useful.  Putting cards back on top is often a drawback, but Porter makes it optional and thus only ever a benefit.  Situational, but still beneficial.  The optional overpay is interesting, making it similar to Tactician.  It has some neat self-synergy -- play Porter to topdeck some cards, then buy Porter to set some aside.  I really like this.

Quote
Royal Guard
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $3
+1 Action. Choose one: Take a Coin token; or pay any number of Coin tokens and +$2 per token paid.

When any player (including you) plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, take 2 Coin tokens.

The main action is a bit weak.  The first choice is weaker than Candlestick Maker.  The second choice can be good, but you have to keep in mind that you are also skipping on the coin token you would have gotten with the first choice.  That means that the second choice is only useful if you are paying at least 2 coin tokens.  If you pay a single coin token for +$2, you might as well have kept that and gained another coin token with the first choice.  I like that it combos with the other coin token cards.

The reaction is simple but interesting.  Getting 2 coin tokens is pretty good.  I would note again that you should factor in the opportunity cost of using the reaction.  Yeah you take 2 coin tokens, but you could have taken 1 coin token anyways if you had kept it in your hand, not to mention the second choice.  It is a soft counter to hand reduction attacks though.

As it is, I think Royal Guard would be OK even at $2.  I like it though.  I was surprised that there was no official reaction for coin tokens in Guilds.  As I said for Builder (below), it would be nice to have a reaction here since there isn't an official one in Guilds.

Quote
Town Hall
Types: Action
Cost: $2+
+3 Actions.

When you buy this, you may overpay for it. For each $1 you overpaid, choose a card you have in play. If you discard that card this turn, put it on top of your deck.

Just +3 actions is actually a vanilla bonus that is surprisingly rare to see.  I wonder if Donald ever tried it, and if so, what problems were there with it?  Maybe it just wasn't interesting enough?

The overpay is alright.  Basically Scheme.  Not sure if intended, but I find it funny in an anti-government kind of way. :)

The card is kind of plain overall, but not necessarily in a bad way.  Hmm.



New thoughts: I think it's interesting that three of the finalists have the same core concept of "trade coin tokens for another vanilla bonus" (Royal Guard trades coin tokens for +coins, but gives one more than you would have had normally).

Fragasnap's mention of "feast or famine" for +3 actions might be why it hasn't really appeared on an official card.  I guess CotR sort of does that though, and it's a Reserve which removes the "famine".  Interesting.
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 0.8: Guilds Runoff
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2016, 02:59:02 pm »
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Deadline for voting is tonight!
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 0.8: Guilds Runoff
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2016, 05:11:18 pm »
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Results:

Barber: 52
Porter: 46
Royal Guard: 35
Dancer: 29
Town Hall: 24

Only 9 voting this time, and the average scores are also lower than the Alchemy votes (though whether this is because of strategic voting or because those cards were liked more, who knows?).

Whose card is Barber?
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LastFootnote

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 0.8: Guilds Runoff
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2016, 05:39:30 pm »
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Whose card is Barber?

That would be RobertJ's card.
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enfynet

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 0.8: Guilds Runoff
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2016, 10:44:18 pm »
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I'll be honest. Barber was the only card I found interesting.
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Asper

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 0.8: Guilds Runoff
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2016, 10:36:13 pm »
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I know i'm late to the party, but Barber is completely absurd. My only consideration would be what to buy when i can't afford Province and don't have Barber in hand. Just alternate discarding everything for 4 tokens and buying Province whenever i can. Not fun. And i'm saying this as someone who actually playtested a card that allowed you to basically skip your turn for 4 tokens - just that that one couldn't buy a Province the turn it got the tokens:

Acion, $4
+3 Buys
----
When you discard this from play, take 1 coin token per unused buy you have.
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