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Author Topic: Dominion: Seasons  (Read 80623 times)

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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #575 on: July 14, 2016, 07:46:12 am »
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I do think Sanitarium would be fine at $3 if it didn't have the on-gain, because there are both situations where it's much better (discard attacks, discard for benefit, non-drawing cards, trashers) and situations where it's much worse than Village (handsize increasers). However, it does have the on-gain, and as you usually pay $4 for a Villages either way, so we went with thr path that made it good without being mandatory.

BoM will never clog your deck with Terminals, Ballroom will. I admit Ballroom is better, but far from being strictly better. Also, if you get it too late, you just paid $5 for a Throne Room.

Yes, Bailiff demands 3 cards, no less.
I actually changed sanitarium to 5 because it's too good at 4. I think nobody really realizes how good a draw to X village is. (Well, except LibraryAdventurer). Adding a sweet on-gain bonus is just the icing on the cake. It may need further changing, but I'm defiantly not using it how it is at 3, or even 4.

What other cards were in that game? Terminal coins, discard attacks? I suppose you didn't go for a Smithy/Sanitarium engine?

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #576 on: July 14, 2016, 09:04:55 am »
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I do think Sanitarium would be fine at $3 if it didn't have the on-gain, because there are both situations where it's much better (discard attacks, discard for benefit, non-drawing cards, trashers) and situations where it's much worse than Village (handsize increasers). However, it does have the on-gain, and as you usually pay $4 for a Villages either way, so we went with thr path that made it good without being mandatory.

BoM will never clog your deck with Terminals, Ballroom will. I admit Ballroom is better, but far from being strictly better. Also, if you get it too late, you just paid $5 for a Throne Room.

Yes, Bailiff demands 3 cards, no less.
I actually changed sanitarium to 5 because it's too good at 4. I think nobody really realizes how good a draw to X village is. (Well, except LibraryAdventurer). Adding a sweet on-gain bonus is just the icing on the cake. It may need further changing, but I'm defiantly not using it how it is at 3, or even 4.

What other cards were in that game? Terminal coins, discard attacks? I suppose you didn't go for a Smithy/Sanitarium engine?
No discard attacks, but there were plenty of terminals and Ballroom was a great way to gain the sanatariums and reduce handsize later. What  I hate is that it's easily a lost city, and unless you throne it or so it's probbably gonna be a village. Id prefer it as a weaker 5 then a really good 4. Its also annoying when its useless on a board.
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drsteelhammer

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #577 on: July 14, 2016, 09:34:08 am »
+1

Is it ever useless, though? Not more than a regular Village.

It's also only a Lost City on it's first play, and it gets a lot worse very quickly. It probably shines more than any other card in a draw to X engine, but you need more support for them beyond Sanitariums.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #578 on: July 14, 2016, 09:50:04 am »
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Maybe I just got lucky with my collisions, but I still want to try it nerfed before I go back to the original version.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #579 on: July 14, 2016, 11:19:47 am »
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I do think Sanitarium would be fine at $3 if it didn't have the on-gain, because there are both situations where it's much better (discard attacks, discard for benefit, non-drawing cards, trashers) and situations where it's much worse than Village (handsize increasers). However, it does have the on-gain, and as you usually pay $4 for a Villages either way, so we went with thr path that made it good without being mandatory.

BoM will never clog your deck with Terminals, Ballroom will. I admit Ballroom is better, but far from being strictly better. Also, if you get it too late, you just paid $5 for a Throne Room.

Yes, Bailiff demands 3 cards, no less.
I actually changed sanitarium to 5 because it's too good at 4. I think nobody really realizes how good a draw to X village is. (Well, except LibraryAdventurer). Adding a sweet on-gain bonus is just the icing on the cake. It may need further changing, but I'm defiantly not using it how it is at 3, or even 4.

What other cards were in that game? Terminal coins, discard attacks? I suppose you didn't go for a Smithy/Sanitarium engine?
Wait, I think it might of had my new version of recruiter and knights, which defiantly added to it's power.

EDIT: Wait, that was production village. Same diff.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #580 on: July 14, 2016, 04:12:40 pm »
+2

I personally don't like Sanitarium at $5, mainly because its on-gain benefit would be used too rarely. We discovered potent combos with this card but didn't see them as an issue. It obviously sucks in other situations which is why overall we think it's fine at $4 (although probably in the upper third within its category). If I had to change it, I would rather just make it a vanilla Village with the on-gain benefit at $4 that it cost $5.

It's still cool that you played with our card and shared your opinion. It's always good to know for other interested people as well.
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Dominion: Seasons - a small set Asper and I made that revolves around a unique and original mechanic
Roots and Renewal - this set is about interacting with the Supply and manipulating your opening turns
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #581 on: July 14, 2016, 04:18:48 pm »
+1

One way to fix sanitarium would be to make it cost debt. The on gain is great, but sees little usage at 5 for obvious reasons. But being able to draw up to 3 cards with a village is great.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #582 on: July 14, 2016, 05:19:44 pm »
+1

I feel that the impression it was too good for $4 is taken from a too small sample.

As a rule of thumb, Sanitarium is better than Village with cards that don't draw, and worse than Village with cards that draw 2 or more cards. It's equal with cantrips. It has an on-gain sometimes. It costs more. People think about Horse Traders and Mountebank, but forget about Smithy and Witch. It's obvious sometimes you prefer Sanitarium over Village, but certainly not in any case. People also forget about other $4 Villages Sanitarium competes with. You can't tell me it's a no-brainer to take Sanitarium over Worker's Village, especially not on a board with decent draw.

Asper

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #583 on: July 14, 2016, 05:24:52 pm »
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Now that i think of it, have you tried Sanitarium in games with Cursers? I believe trying to connect Sanitarium with a non-drawing action will be prone to choking, especially if that other card is terminal (so you need to connect with a second Sanitarium to get the order right).

ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #584 on: July 15, 2016, 10:20:13 am »
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Do you guys have a basic Action-Season template? I can't find one to use.
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #585 on: July 15, 2016, 12:29:59 pm »
+1

Do you guys have a basic Action-Season template? I can't find one to use.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14570.msg582016#msg582016

This post has it. :)
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #586 on: July 15, 2016, 12:46:58 pm »
0

Do you guys have a basic Action-Season template? I can't find one to use.

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=14570.msg582016#msg582016

This post has it. :)
I saw that, but it's a season victory. I must be missing something.

EDIT: Looked at them both again, all prefecture does is crash GIMP and make me restart the computer because GIMP is on some funny setting now.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 01:47:37 pm by ThetaSigma12 »
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #587 on: July 16, 2016, 07:22:32 pm »
+1

I uploaded prefecture because it contains both Season and Season/Victory templates. They're in different layers you can toggle on and off in the layers menu. I'm sorry this made your GIMP crash, though. Try this template:
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 07:43:07 am by Co0kieL0rd »
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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #588 on: February 15, 2017, 09:00:15 am »
+1

So Asper, what's the set like now? I see you've changed a few things over on German FDS.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #589 on: February 15, 2017, 03:13:54 pm »
+3

So Asper, what's the set like now? I see you've changed a few things over on German FDS.
Short backstory for clarification:
When I decided to post my cards on German fds, I obviously needed to re-do them. I started with the cards from my main thread, then did the Spellcasters. Before soon I felt I should also post Seasons, because of how well received it was here (thanks for that, Co0kieL0rd and I were really overwhelmed with your great responses :D ). However, I didn't have a chance to talk with Co0kie about some things I would have liked to change with the set. For this reason, the following images show my current take on the set and not the "official" state of Seasons. My update also only has 8 cards, although there's nothing incredibly wrong with Bailiff, Sojourner or Wayfare.



Ball Room and Sanitarium are mechanically unchanged. Also, it's Autumn instead of Fall, now.

AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #590 on: February 15, 2017, 03:22:23 pm »
+2

I like th Snow witch change (because I was a person who proposed it :p)
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #591 on: February 15, 2017, 04:37:42 pm »
0

I still want Sanatarium at 6 Debt.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #592 on: February 15, 2017, 04:55:50 pm »
+2

I still want Sanatarium at 6 Debt.

I'm simply not convinced by your reasoning that Sanitarium would be too strong for 4$. It sometimes will be better than Village. It sometimes will be worse. It will be better more often than worse. Big deal, it costs more. It also gives the gaining bonus. Only a few times, though.

Again, if Sanitarium has to compete with Worker's Village, Wandring Minstrel or Port, it doesn't need to be just good enough for 4$. It's fine if it's a strong 4$. Neither a Village, nor trashing, nor draw-to-X are inherently game-winning effects. You need to be able to play them right. And if a strong card leads to more interesting strategies, which I think Sanitarium can, I see no problem.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with a cost of <6>. But there's nothing wrong with a price of 4$, either. So I'm going to stick with the more simple thing unless something made me believe that costing Sanitarium at <6> somehow made the card more fun, which I doubt.

schadd

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #593 on: February 15, 2017, 05:45:32 pm »
+2

timberland has an unnecessary semicolon at the end
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schadd

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #594 on: February 15, 2017, 05:45:54 pm »
+1

incidentally, are you a programmer?
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #595 on: February 15, 2017, 06:22:59 pm »
+2

incidentally, are you a programmer?
I am, although the semicolon was just an honest mistake.

AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #596 on: February 15, 2017, 07:21:32 pm »
+1

I still want Sanatarium at 6 Debt.

I'm simply not convinced by your reasoning that Sanitarium would be too strong for 4$. It sometimes will be better than Village. It sometimes will be worse. It will be better more often than worse. Big deal, it costs more. It also gives the gaining bonus. Only a few times, though.

Again, if Sanitarium has to compete with Worker's Village, Wandring Minstrel or Port, it doesn't need to be just good enough for 4$. It's fine if it's a strong 4$. Neither a Village, nor trashing, nor draw-to-X are inherently game-winning effects. You need to be able to play them right. And if a strong card leads to more interesting strategies, which I think Sanitarium can, I see no problem.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with a cost of <6>. But there's nothing wrong with a price of 4$, either. So I'm going to stick with the more simple thing unless something made me believe that costing Sanitarium at <6> somehow made the card more fun, which I doubt.

<6> makes it easier to buy on a 5/2 when needed, I guess.
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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #597 on: February 16, 2017, 02:32:08 am »
+2

I really really like the new Timberland.  It's quite tempting to buy it early, which messes with your deck.  Absolutely love it.  Thanks!!!
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #598 on: February 16, 2017, 07:46:23 am »
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I really really like the new Timberland.  It's quite tempting to buy it early, which messes with your deck.  Absolutely love it.  Thanks!!!

Admittedly, Timberland hasn't aged as well as the others, with Battlefield and Castles around now. Ah well...

Asper

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Re: Dominion: Seasons
« Reply #599 on: February 16, 2017, 03:52:32 pm »
0

I still want Sanatarium at 6 Debt.

I'm simply not convinced by your reasoning that Sanitarium would be too strong for 4$. It sometimes will be better than Village. It sometimes will be worse. It will be better more often than worse. Big deal, it costs more. It also gives the gaining bonus. Only a few times, though.

Again, if Sanitarium has to compete with Worker's Village, Wandring Minstrel or Port, it doesn't need to be just good enough for 4$. It's fine if it's a strong 4$. Neither a Village, nor trashing, nor draw-to-X are inherently game-winning effects. You need to be able to play them right. And if a strong card leads to more interesting strategies, which I think Sanitarium can, I see no problem.

Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with a cost of <6>. But there's nothing wrong with a price of 4$, either. So I'm going to stick with the more simple thing unless something made me believe that costing Sanitarium at <6> somehow made the card more fun, which I doubt.

<6> makes it easier to buy on a 5/2 when needed, I guess.

As I think about that, it in fact allows a Sanitarium/Sanitarium opening regardless of your hand. Which might be one of the reasons why all those debt cards cost <8>.
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