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[faust]

Action
$4

+1 Action
In Spring & Summer: Everyone discards down to $3 cards.
In Fall & Winter: Everyone discards down to 4 cards.
+1 Action
+1 Card

Even though this is unintended, cost-specific discard actually sounds like an interesting idea that I haven't seen before. "Reveal your hand and discard a card costing $5 or more (rsp. $3 or less)" could work o the right card.

[AdrianHealey]

Action
$4

+1 Action
In Spring & Summer: Everyone discards down to $3 cards.
In Fall & Winter: Everyone discards down to 4 cards.
+1 Action
+1 Card

Even though this is unintended, cost-specific discard actually sounds like an interesting idea that I haven't seen before. "Reveal your hand and discard a card costing $5 or more (rsp. $3 or less)" could work o the right card.

Hahahahaaha. I don't know how I feel that the most interesting idea I had was unintentional.

On a season card, it could work in the earlier seasons, right?

In spring: discard $3 or more
In summer discard $4 or more
in fall: discard $5 or more
in winter: discard $6 or more.

Probably harsh, though.

[Nflickner]

I just printed out several of the cards--Sojourner, Student, Trade port, and Wayfare, and love each of them!!!! Playing a game with my wife and we are both having a ball with these cards.  I actually printed out ten copies of each on photo paper, so they look amazing.  I sleeve all my cards, so they don't feel very different at all from regular cards.  Anyways, I wonder if I might try my hand at making some of my own card ideas with the Seasons motif.  Of course I will share and post them on this thread.  My one problem is that I don't have the basic format of the Seasons cards--the template for the action card, the action/victory card, the action/duration card, etc.  Would you guys be willing to share those with us?  Thanks again, this is the best fan expansion ever!!!!!!

[Co0kieL0rd]

I just printed out several of the cards--Sojourner, Student, Trade port, and Wayfare, and love each of them!!!! Playing a game with my wife and we are both having a ball with these cards.  I actually printed out ten copies of each on photo paper, so they look amazing.  I sleeve all my cards, so they don't feel very different at all from regular cards.  Anyways, I wonder if I might try my hand at making some of my own card ideas with the Seasons motif.  Of course I will share and post them on this thread.  My one problem is that I don't have the basic format of the Seasons cards--the template for the action card, the action/victory card, the action/duration card, etc.  Would you guys be willing to share those with us?  Thanks again, this is the best fan expansion ever!!!!!!

It's very nice to see people enjoy our set so much Thanks for the feedback! I encourage you experiment with your own Season ideas. Here are two templates. If you need other card types combined with Season, you gotta make the templates yourself, though.

[Nflickner]

I just printed out several of the cards--Sojourner, Student, Trade port, and Wayfare, and love each of them!!!! Playing a game with my wife and we are both having a ball with these cards.  I actually printed out ten copies of each on photo paper, so they look amazing.  I sleeve all my cards, so they don't feel very different at all from regular cards.  Anyways, I wonder if I might try my hand at making some of my own card ideas with the Seasons motif.  Of course I will share and post them on this thread.  My one problem is that I don't have the basic format of the Seasons cards--the template for the action card, the action/victory card, the action/duration card, etc.  Would you guys be willing to share those with us?  Thanks again, this is the best fan expansion ever!!!!!!

It's very nice to see people enjoy our set so much Thanks for the feedback! I encourage you experiment with your own Season ideas. Here are two templates. If you need other card types combined with Season, you gotta make the templates yourself, though.

Thanks so much!  Do you have any templates that just include the basic pink Season action card, like the one used for Bailiff or others?  I promise to give all credit to you and Asper!!!!   (I'm not sure if you just don't have the other templates, or if you are choosing not to share those.  If you are choosing not to share, please, please please reconsider    This is the best Dominion fan made expansion and I think it is even better than Alchemy!!! 
Oh, on second thought, I think I understand now that you included the other types in the file--I just need to fiddle with it.  Thanks so much!  I'm new to Gimp so I got a little confused  

[Nflickner]

New Idea for Seasons!

I love this set so much (definitely the funnest and most balanced and playtested fan set out there I believe!) and have been having fun printing the cards and playing them with my wife, and I've been brainstorming more ideas for cards. 
I just thought of a new card that also brings a new dynamic to the game.  I will mock up the card and post it here when I'm finished, but in the mean-time, I wanted to share my idea because I'm curious to get some feedback.
There are two versions of it.  This is the first:

Name:  Dragon Slayer (probably--I may go for something a little more creative if I or someone else thinks of something better)
Setup:  Place a Legendary Dragon as though it were an event.  This card attacks all players and can only be defeated (placed in trash) if any player plays a dragon slayer and pays 10 coin on their turn.  That player then gets a reward (see below)
Cost: 6 coin (maybe 7 coin?)
Action/season Card (haven't thought yet of what it does

Legendary Dragon
Type: Event (?)  (maybe instead of Event I could call it "Legendary Foe" and drop the "legendary" from the name of the card)
 "Attacks" each player on specified turns
 I haven't thought through all the attacks very well, so the ideas posted below are just some thoughts to get something down on paper.  The main idea that I will keep is that the dragon attacks on various turns throughout the game in different ways depending on the season.  Initially, I'm thinking that these attacks are not blockable by cards such as moat, because they are not typical attacks. 
 
Example:  When it is their turn and the season marker is on the 5th dial of Spring, each player reveals cards from their deck and trash the first card costing at least three coin from their deck. 
Summer:  When it is their turn and the season marker is on each dial of Summer, each player discards down to four cards at the beginning of their turn.
Fall:  When it is their turn and the season marker is on the third dial of Fall, each player reveals treasure cards from their deck until revealing a silver or higher cost treasure card and trash it.
Winter:  (perhaps nothing--dragon needs to sleep.  Or maybe the dragon will sleep during a different season--too hot in summer so it sleeps then?)
When Legendary Dragon is defeated by a player (they play a Dragon Slayer in their turn and pay 10 coins) Legendary Dragon is trashed and the player who defeated it receives 6 Victory tokens and either a Prize (from Cornucopia set) or a gold. 

The second variant of this card that my wife thought of is that instead of the dragon slayer being a typical action card, it would be a traveler, which must "level-up" into a dragon slayer.  It could be a progression like this:
Peon<Mendicant<Vassal<Man-at-Arms<Dragon Slayer
Perhaps the way it could finally kill the Dragon would cost less in this traveler line compared to my other idea due to the fact that you have to progress through the line before being able to kill the dragon anyways. 

Anyways, feel free to offer feedback and thoughts or ideas. 

[Gubump]

I think I like the Traveller version better. Here are my ideas for the Travellers:

Peon:
+2 Actions
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Mendicant.
Setup: Add the Legendary Dragon to the Supply.
Cost: $2
Action - Traveller

Mendicant:
Trash a card from your hand. +$1 for every $2 in its cost (rounded up).
You may gain a card costing $3 or $4 from the trash.
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Vassal. (This is not in the Supply)
Cost: $3*
Action - Traveller

Vassal:
During Spring and Summer: +$3, each other player discards down to 2 cards in hand.
During Fall and Winter: +$1, each other player discards down to 3 cards in hand.
When you discard this from play during Spring or Summer, you may exchange it for a Man-at-Arms. (This is not in the Supply)
Cost: $4*
Action - Attack - Seasons - Traveller

Man-at-Arms:
Move the Seasons marker up to 2 rounds forward or backward.
During Spring and Summer: +3 Cards, each other player gains a Curse.
During Fall and Winter: +2 Cards, each other player gains a Copper.
When you discard this from play during Spring or Summer, you may exchange it for a Dragon Slayer.
Cost: $5*
Action - Attack - Seasons - Traveller

Dragon Slayer:
Choose one: Discard the Legendary Dragon from use; or +$4; or +$2 and each other player discards the top two cards of his deck and gains a Curse and a Copper, putting them on top of his deck in either order.
Cost: $6*
Action - Attack - Traveller

[ThetaSigma12]

Dragon Slayer shouldn't have the traveller subtype

[Nflickner]

I think I like the Traveller version better. Here are my ideas for the Travellers:

Thanks Gubump!  I  agree that the traveller version is better.  I realize that my initial idea for the names of the progression are not incredibly interesting--it doesn't tell an interesting story as well as the Peasant/Teacher line.  So I think I will adjust it a little, and here is my first idea:
Serf<Outlaw<Convert<Crusader<Dragon Hunter<King (only for the one player who kills the dragon)

Basically, a humble serf of a local medieval lord gets tired of slaving away for him and runs away into the woods, so is now an outlaw.  He then learns some fighting skills from other outlaws in the forest (kind of like Robin Hood) but is exposed to religious teaching and becomes a Convert.  He goes to war as a Crusader, but becomes jaded with the bloodshed and vows to only fight for truth and justice as a Dragon Slayer.  He finally kills the dragon who has been destroying the kingdom, and all the people rise up to make him king of the realm because of his great exploits and strong character. 

I'm going to try as best as I can to make the individual actions as thematic as possible.

Here's an idea for Serf:
Action-Season-Traveller
Cost: 2
In Spring and Fall:
+1 Action
+1 Coin
Each other player gains a copper
When you discard this from play, exchange it for an Outlaw
Setup:  Add the Legendary Dragon to the supply

(I realize that this sounds like an attack, and it is an attack in a way, but the "Attack" monicker doesn't fit the theme.  Also, it is a one shot--you are forced to trade it up for an Outlaw if you play it, unlike most travellers.) The reason why it is only during Spring and Fall is because farming is seasonal. 
I'm not sure if it is too strong (or too weak?--I have considered giving it a +1 coin), but I kind of like that it changes up the early game a little. 

(edit--added "king" to traveller progression and +1 coin to serf card)

[Nflickner]

Man-at-Arms:
Move the Seasons marker up to 2 rounds forward or backward.
During Spring and Summer: +3 Cards, each other player gains a Curse.
During Fall and Winter: +2 Cards, each other player gains a Copper.
When you discard this from play during Spring or Summer, you may exchange it for a Dragon Slayer.
Cost: $5*
Action - Attack - Seasons - Traveller

Dragon Slayer:
Choose one: Discard the Legendary Dragon from use; or +$4; or +$2 and each other player discards the top two cards of his deck and gains a Curse and a Copper, putting them on top of his deck in either order.
Cost: $6*
Action - Attack - Traveller

I like your idea for the man at arms--i might use some version of that for my Outlaw card.  Also, in your idea of the Dragon slayer, were you including my original idea of getting a prize of some sort, or no?

[Gubump]

Man-at-Arms:
Move the Seasons marker up to 2 rounds forward or backward.
During Spring and Summer: +3 Cards, each other player gains a Curse.
During Fall and Winter: +2 Cards, each other player gains a Copper.
When you discard this from play during Spring or Summer, you may exchange it for a Dragon Slayer.
Cost: $5*
Action - Attack - Seasons - Traveller

Dragon Slayer:
Choose one: Discard the Legendary Dragon from use; or +$4; or +$2 and each other player discards the top two cards of his deck and gains a Curse and a Copper, putting them on top of his deck in either order.
Cost: $6*
Action - Attack - Traveller

I like your idea for the man at arms--i might use some version of that for my Outlaw card.  Also, in your idea of the Dragon slayer, were you including my original idea of getting a prize of some sort, or no?

I forgot about that. Here's a version that gains a Prize or something similar:

Dragon Slayer:
Choose one: +$2 and discard the Legendary Dragon from use; or +$4; +1 Buy and +$3; or if the Legendary Dragon is no longer in use, exchange this for a Prize from the Prize pile. (This is not in the Supply)
Cost: $6*
Action

I made it a one-shot for Prize-gaining because I thought that it would be too strong otherwise.

[Nflickner]

I think I like the Traveller version better. Here are my ideas for the Travellers:

Thanks Gubump!  I  agree that the traveller version is better.  I realize that my initial idea for the names of the progression are not incredibly interesting--it doesn't tell an interesting story as well as the Peasant/Teacher line.  So I think I will adjust it a little, and here is my first idea:
Serf<Outlaw<Convert<Crusader<Dragon Hunter

Basically, a humble serf of a local medieval lord gets tired of slaving away for him and runs away into the woods, so is now an outlaw.  He then learns some fighting skills from other outlaws in the forest (kind of like Robin Hood) but is exposed to religious teaching and becomes a Convert.  He goes to war as a Crusader, but becomes jaded with the bloodshed and vows to only fight for truth and justice as a Dragon Slayer. 

I'm going to try as best as I can to make the individual actions as thematic as possible.

Here's an idea for Serf:
Action-Season-Traveller
Cost: 2
In Spring and Fall:
+1 Action
Each other player gains a copper
When you discard this from play, exchange it for an Outlaw
Setup:  Add the Legendary Dragon to the supply

(I realize that this sounds like an attack, and it is an attack in a way, but the "Attack" monicker doesn't fit the theme.  Also, it is a one shot--you are forced to trade it up for an Outlaw if you play it, unlike most travellers.) The reason why it is only during Spring and Fall is because farming is seasonal. 
I'm not sure if it is too strong (or too weak?--I have considered giving it a +1 coin), but I kind of like that it changes up the early game a little.

I have a new idea for the Traveller line:  there will be a final Traveller after the Dragon Slayer, perhaps named King.  Only one player will be able to acquire the king card--the one who kills the dragon first.  I'm thinking the King will either be an Action/Victory hybrid or will give you some VP tokens when you first gain it.  I won't make the King card too overpowered, because I still want the game to be balanced.  Thoughts?

[Nflickner]

This is a rough draft of the second card in the season traveller line I'm developing: Outlaw.  It may look to be a bit powerful at first, but notice that it is a one shot--you are required to exchange it for the next card in the Traveller line.  Always open to thoughts and critiques.   

[math]

I do

This is a rough draft of the second card in the season traveller line I'm developing: Outlaw.  It may look to be a bit powerful at first, but notice that it is a one shot--you are required to exchange it for the next card in the Traveller line.  Always open to thoughts and critiques.   

I do think this is a bit too powerful.  Compare it to the other $3 Travellers. Treasure Hunter is weak and sometimes actually hurts your deck; Soldier is an extremely weak attack with a terminal silver.  Both would rarely be bought if they weren't Travellers.  It's true that this card is a "one shot", but it will turn into a better card instead of disappearing.

Technical detail: If any of the upgrades distribute Ruins, wouldn't the original Serf need the Looter type so the Ruins would be in the Supply?

[Nflickner]

Thanks Math, I appreciate your comments and I will adjust the power level of this card. 

[Asper]

I think 5 types are more than i'd be willing to accept on a single card. I mean, sure, we need Seasons, so 2 is the minimum and 3 unavoidable if you want to also have attacks. I guess 4 might be acceptable for really special cases, like a Seasons card that distributed Ruins. But i'd rather split the ideas up, and have two distinct cards instead of one that is both Looter and Traveller. Seasons adds complexity, don't forget that. For example, what is the difference between Copper or Ruins junking? Is it worth the Seasons type?

If you think yes, maybe you can solve it without the card being a Traveller, instead? After all, you often forget exchanging your Travellers. This is your own fault and not a problem mechanics-wise, normally. But here you actually break the rules by forgetting something you are supposed to do, but don't expect to have to remember (which is one of the things which annoy me with Treasure Hunter's mandatory "Why did nobody pay attention?"-silver counting). At the very least it makes you look through your discard pile if you forgot exchanging, which isn't allowed by default. I'd rather make exchanging optional or trash it/return it on play to gain the next card in the chain, similar to Urchin. As mentioned, you could drop the Traveller type in this case.

[Nflickner]

I think 5 types are more than i'd be willing to accept on a single card. I mean, sure, we need Seasons, so 2 is the minimum and 3 unavoidable if you want to also have attacks. I guess 4 might be acceptable for really special cases, like a Seasons card that distributed Ruins. But i'd rather split the ideas up, and have two distinct cards instead of one that is both Looter and Traveller. Seasons adds complexity, don't forget that. For example, what is the difference between Copper or Ruins junking? Is it worth the Seasons type?

If you think yes, maybe you can solve it without the card being a Traveller, instead? After all, you often forget exchanging your Travellers. This is your own fault and not a problem mechanics-wise, normally. But here you actually break the rules by forgetting something you are supposed to do, but don't expect to have to remember (which is one of the things which annoy me with Treasure Hunter's mandatory "Why did nobody pay attention?"-silver counting). At the very least it makes you look through your discard pile if you forgot exchanging, which isn't allowed by default. I'd rather make exchanging optional or trash it/return it on play to gain the next card in the chain, similar to Urchin. As mentioned, you could drop the Traveller type in this case.

Thanks Asper-- I think what I will do is make the first card in my line a seasons card, and then have most (or all) the other ones non season cards so that it is less complicated.  So that would mean that this card will be simplified.  I appreciate the comments about the likelihood of people forgetting to exchange it, which is true, so that will probably mean that I will make it into a normal traveler card and drop the junking attack perhaps. 

[eHalcyon]

I haven't read through the Travellers ideas above, but a possible idea for a step 1 traveller for Seasons is for it to exchange to something different depending on the season.  The complicated implementation would have multiple potential lines.  The simple implementation could simply allow the Traveller to skip a step (or steps) depending on the season, e.g. skip when exchanging in Spring to incentivize earlier commitment, or skip in Winter so you can put it off.  The skipped step(s) could maybe be powerful so you don't want to skip it, or especially weak so you really, really do.  I'm sure there are other possibilities too.

[Nflickner]

I haven't read through the Travellers ideas above, but a possible idea for a step 1 traveller for Seasons is for it to exchange to something different depending on the season.  The complicated implementation would have multiple potential lines.  The simple implementation could simply allow the Traveller to skip a step (or steps) depending on the season, e.g. skip when exchanging in Spring to incentivize earlier commitment, or skip in Winter so you can put it off.  The skipped step(s) could maybe be powerful so you don't want to skip it, or especially weak so you really, really do.  I'm sure there are other possibilities too.

Ooh, these are some great ideas--definitely something for me to ponder more   I'm thinking one of the simple implementations will be better, or maybe just a split at the very end, but not early in the line.  Or a one off split that converges again.  (one of the mid travelers splits into two different options, but then the traveler after that is the same again no matter what)

[math]

I haven't read through the Travellers ideas above, but a possible idea for a step 1 traveller for Seasons is for it to exchange to something different depending on the season.  The complicated implementation would have multiple potential lines.  The simple implementation could simply allow the Traveller to skip a step (or steps) depending on the season, e.g. skip when exchanging in Spring to incentivize earlier commitment, or skip in Winter so you can put it off.  The skipped step(s) could maybe be powerful so you don't want to skip it, or especially weak so you really, really do.  I'm sure there are other possibilities too.

Ooh, these are some great ideas--definitely something for me to ponder more   I'm thinking one of the simple implementations will be better, or maybe just a split at the very end, but not early in the line.  Or a one off split that converges again.  (one of the mid travelers splits into two different options, but then the traveler after that is the same again no matter what)

The latter option sounds like a good idea, especially since the last Traveller is usually the best.  I would hate to have my opponent exchange his Traveller one turn before I do and get something better as a result, with no way to come back.

[junkers]

While I haven't gone through all twenty-two pages of analysis and criticism, I'm very much looking forward to giving this expansion a go. And seeing where the continued community discussion might take the project - seeing familiar mechanics (like Travelers) applied to Seasons' central conceit is grand.

I think Bailiff is a standout because he's going to add extra intrigue to alt-VP (and now Castles!) games. But the alternate Timberland that is worth more or less depending on when the game ends is a class act.

Congratulations, too, on choosing largely suitable palettes. Trade Port in particular looks smashing.

I really like the concept of the temporal mechanic, but for those that have had the pleasure of playing it: has it resulted in overtly swingy games? Or have most games tended to be quite close? Maybe it has acted as a "blue shell" that has allowed players who are trailing to turn the tables? Or maybe it really is just an "every kingdom is different" situation and I'm rambling.

[Nflickner]

I really like the concept of the temporal mechanic, but for those that have had the pleasure of playing it: has it resulted in overtly swingy games? Or have most games tended to be quite close? Maybe it has acted as a "blue shell" that has allowed players who are trailing to turn the tables? Or maybe it really is just an "every kingdom is different" situation and I'm rambling.

I have printed and played with most of the cards with my wife, and we have really enjoyed it.  As I said earlier in the forums, Seasons is I think the most balanced and fun fan expansion I've ever come across.  I don't think it's too swingy personally, the games we have played have been close, even when we have played differing strategies from each other. 

My favorite cards from it from best down are: Sojourner, Wayfare, Tradeport, Sanitarium, and Student.  If you want to give it a shot, I recommend using some of those, cause they will really give your games an interesting twist.  There is something about Sojourner that really lets you see the Seasons dynamic dynamically   And the decision of when to use Wayfare is quite nailbiting   (my wife picked Fall, and I picked Winter). 
Hope you enjoy it as much as I have. 

[Nflickner]

Oooh, I'm wondering if making a two pile card for seasons would be fun   Perhaps the buried card is very strong, but is only useful before winter, so there is a mad rush to get through the top half of the pile in order to get to the buried card in order to use it a couple times before it is useless. 

A Landmark will be fun to design for this as well!  Very excited to try out some of these possibilities in the future. 

[junkers]

It'd be neat to see how the printed cards came out if you've used photo paper and sleeves, Nflickner.

And the decision of when to use Wayfare is quite nailbiting   (my wife picked Fall, and I picked Winter).

Do you often buy it well ahead of time, to set a clock on each other? Or pick it up just before entering the season you're going to use it in? When you both commit to a slog early, is the opportunity to cash in on a second spring just too darn tempting?

A Landmark will be fun to design for this as well!

I'm having trouble thinking of anything that isn't simply a variation on Timberland #2, but I think that a Landmark here would definitely have to make use of the titular seasons. Guess that might be made easier once we've seen the rest of the Empires contents...

Perhaps the buried card is very strong, but is only useful before winter, so there is a mad rush to get through the top half of the pile in order to get to the buried card in order to use it a couple times before it is useless.

I don't know if locking a card out of use completely after one period sounds too grand - wouldn't you have to give it a very small effect so it's not totally dead?

Actually, that's got me to thinking about hibernation and renewal... Is there a reason we have to start in Spring every year?

[Nflickner]

It'd be neat to see how the printed cards came out if you've used photo paper and sleeves, Nflickner.

And the decision of when to use Wayfare is quite nailbiting   (my wife picked Fall, and I picked Winter).

Do you often buy it well ahead of time, to set a clock on each other? Or pick it up just before entering the season you're going to use it in? When you both commit to a slog early, is the opportunity to cash in on a second spring just too darn tempting?

A Landmark will be fun to design for this as well!

I'm having trouble thinking of anything that isn't simply a variation on Timberland #2, but I think that a Landmark here would definitely have to make use of the titular seasons. Guess that might be made easier once we've seen the rest of the Empires contents...

Perhaps the buried card is very strong, but is only useful before winter, so there is a mad rush to get through the top half of the pile in order to get to the buried card in order to use it a couple times before it is useless.

I don't know if locking a card out of use completely after one period sounds too grand - wouldn't you have to give it a very small effect so it's not totally dead?

Actually, that's got me to thinking about hibernation and renewal... Is there a reason we have to start in Spring every year?

Yes, I would love to post a picture of the cards that i printed out, but right now they are put away due to a bed bug infestation   So I will have to post pictures later.  If I forget, feel free to remind me.  The cards came out great--they look very professional.  Really the only difference is that they are slightly thinner than normal dominion cards.  Oh--and I use black-backed sleeves.  That way it doesn't matter that the cards I printed don't have the fancy back.  I don't know how it would work if I didn't use sleeves. 
For wayfare--we bought it pretty close to the season we were going to use it in.  We didn't play any slogs, and one of our games ended before we even got to Winter. 
To answer your question about the two pile idea I had, my idea was only that the bottom card would be much less powerful, or would turn into a cantrip perhaps only during the season of winter, but otherwise would be quite powerful.  Perhaps the top card would be a little less interesting, so you have to decide whether you will buy through the top cards to get to the powerful bottom card. 

Your idea about starting the seasons at a different time is a good one.  I think adding a seasons card that says "Setup: start the seasons marker in Winter" would be an interesting twist