Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 25  All

Author Topic: Dominion: Seasons  (Read 160349 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #200 on: January 21, 2016, 05:57:48 am »
+3

Ballroom seems really strong, but is of course hindered by the fact that most $4- cards are weakish terminals.
It's also hindered by the fact that sometimes you don't want many copies of $4 cards. You might want to play that Baron now with an Estate in your hand, but have little use for it later.
Also, the gaining is forced, so ideally you want some cheap cantrips (Pearl Diver, Great Hall, Spy) to get when other interesting cards are gone to keep playing it.

I can see some use for using Ballroom to gain and play Villages (Farming, Mining, Worker's).

The later TR effect balances it well, I think.

Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Auto-Destruct Sequence

  • Ambassador
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 31
  • Respect: +48
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #201 on: January 21, 2016, 07:25:12 am »
+1

Sojourner is too cheap. It cost $2 but is strictly better than estate since it gives the same 1 vp but also removes itself from the hand as well as offers a bonus benefit depending on the season. Should cost $3?
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5344
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #202 on: January 21, 2016, 08:36:52 am »
+2

Sojourner is too cheap. It cost $2 but is strictly better than estate since it gives the same 1 vp but also removes itself from the hand as well as offers a bonus benefit depending on the season. Should cost $3?

It is not strictly better, as if you are not able to play Sojourner before the game ends, it is worth nothing. You often buy Estates as tiebreakers in the final turns of the game, which you can't do with Sojourner.

Also Compare Distand Lands, which is a Victory card costing that is worth 4 if you managed to play it, and worth 0 otherwise. According to your reasoning it's strictly better than Duchy.

Edit: Of course, the fact that it's not strictly better than Estate doesn't mean it can't be too strong.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 10:27:50 am by Asper »
Logged

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5142
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #203 on: January 21, 2016, 08:53:39 am »
+1

Also, the gaining is forced, so ideally you want some cheap cantrips (Pearl Diver, Great Hall, Spy) to get when other interesting cards are gone to keep playing it.

Eh, well, the gaining is forced, but playing Ballroom isn't... and since the only use of playing Ballroom is to get those cheap Actions (in Spring/Summer), I don't see how the situation would be any better if the gaining was optional, barring Golem/Herald/TR edge cases. (and with TR and Herald around I guess there are good gaining targets)
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4787
  • Respect: +3412
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #204 on: January 21, 2016, 09:31:14 am »
+1

Hmm, I think what I meant was you are forced to gain the card you want to play right now. :)

So you can't BoM it to play a Baron without gaining it.

And I also meant that it's helpful to keep gaining cheap cantrips as they rarely hurt (barring discard attacks and such).
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 09:32:17 am by Davio »
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Co0kieL0rd

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 743
  • Respect: +863
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #205 on: January 22, 2016, 08:07:07 pm »
+10

Now we kept you waiting for god-knows-how-many days before releasing the next card. We hope with this we can RESTORE your faith in our update schedule  ;D



The Remodel family got offspring! Again. Where are all those coming from? Restore wants to be like Expand but also non-terminal. You can do that in Spring but it gets worse. Although Winter is the only Season where it's actually bad for its cost. Restore benefits the most from action-rich decks and long games that last until second Spring. In that case it can make for an explosive ending. Otherwise its power level is about average for a $5-cost card.
Logged
Check out my fan cards!
Dominion: Seasons - a small set Asper and I made that revolves around a unique and original mechanic
Roots and Renewal - this set is about interacting with the Supply and manipulating your opening turns
Flash cards - trying out a new concept

Roadrunner7671

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1845
  • Shuffle iT Username: Roadrunner7672
  • Forum Mafia Record: 18-33-2
  • Respect: +1346
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #206 on: January 22, 2016, 08:11:03 pm »
0

This looks very good. Like, unskippable. I usually feel that way about non-terminal trashers (show of hands for who ignores Upgrade/Junk Dealer 90-93% of the time?) but I still like them. It's interesting, for sure, but it is usually better than Remodel or almost any remodel-type cards (not including expand). I'm almost positive you've playtested it, so if it's good, then great, I can be wrong. But man, this card is the one that I've been least sure of throughout the entire expansion.
Logged
Oh God someone delete this before Roadrunner sees it.

Co0kieL0rd

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 743
  • Respect: +863
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #207 on: January 22, 2016, 08:16:51 pm »
+1

This looks very good. Like, unskippable. I usually feel that way about non-terminal trashers (show of hands for who ignores Upgrade/Junk Dealer 90-93% of the time?) but I still like them. It's interesting, for sure, but it is usually better than Remodel or almost any remodel-type cards (not including expand). I'm almost positive you've playtested it, so if it's good, then great, I can be wrong. But man, this card is the one that I've been least sure of throughout the entire expansion.

It has been tested in 8-10 games, I reckon, and never has been changed since we came up with it. It works fine but it's still slow. It's certainly worse than Junk Dealer and Upgrade. Drawing a card makes those card significantly better. Restore hates trashing Coppers (unless in Spring). It wants Silvers or Action cards.
Logged
Check out my fan cards!
Dominion: Seasons - a small set Asper and I made that revolves around a unique and original mechanic
Roots and Renewal - this set is about interacting with the Supply and manipulating your opening turns
Flash cards - trying out a new concept

AdrianHealey

  • Mountebank
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2244
  • Respect: +776
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #208 on: January 22, 2016, 08:53:13 pm »
0

What's wrong with trshing coppers to get silvers? Not fast enough?
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5344
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #209 on: January 22, 2016, 09:15:15 pm »
0

What's wrong with trshing coppers to get silvers? Not fast enough?

Assuming you actually open with Restore, you can only use the $3 option once. I usually like my Season cards that do something special in Spring to cost $4 or less, so you can always open with them, but in Restore's case, it's both a consolation price for the +Action being useless, and of course a gigantic boost if (and that's a big if) the game takes until Spring II.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9701
  • Respect: +10741
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #210 on: January 22, 2016, 11:50:27 pm »
+4

What's wrong with trshing coppers to get silvers? Not fast enough?

It's worse than Mine, which isn't very strong... I mean it's non-terminal of course, but that only matters if you have other terminal actions to play in the same hand.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

sudgy

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3431
  • Shuffle iT Username: sudgy
  • It's pronounced "SOO-jee"
  • Respect: +2706
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #211 on: January 23, 2016, 02:11:38 am »
+2

The Remodel family got offspring!

I'm guessing this was punintentional?
Logged
If you're wondering what my avatar is, watch this.

Check out my logic puzzle blog!

   Quote from: sudgy on June 31, 2011, 11:47:46 pm

faust

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3376
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
  • Respect: +5142
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #212 on: January 23, 2016, 07:42:02 am »
+1

I like that it is nonterminal... but there might be issues with that. The other nonterminal Remodel-family card is Upgrade, and that has "exactly". This one does not, so I'm afraid it enables milling piles. You can really speed up the game by multiple Province -> Province plays. Not sure how big of a problem that is. It might not be a problem,but it would defnitely be a thing to look out for in playtest rounds (if you didn't already).
Logged
You say the ocean's rising, like I give a shit
You say the whole world's ending, honey it already did

Co0kieL0rd

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 743
  • Respect: +863
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #213 on: January 23, 2016, 07:50:55 am »
0

I like that it is nonterminal... but there might be issues with that. The other nonterminal Remodel-family card is Upgrade, and that has "exactly". This one does not, so I'm afraid it enables milling piles. You can really speed up the game by multiple Province -> Province plays. Not sure how big of a problem that is. It might not be a problem,but it would defnitely be a thing to look out for in playtest rounds (if you didn't already).

That is a good point. I think we never looked out for that. The situation never came up because Restore was never part of any dominant strategy so far. But since we are going to go over the card again, possibly buffing it, we will consider adding "exactly" to it.

The Remodel family got offspring!

I'm guessing this was punintentional?

Wow, no it wasn't. Haha, totally missed that  :D
Logged
Check out my fan cards!
Dominion: Seasons - a small set Asper and I made that revolves around a unique and original mechanic
Roots and Renewal - this set is about interacting with the Supply and manipulating your opening turns
Flash cards - trying out a new concept

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1153
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1795
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #214 on: January 23, 2016, 08:38:32 am »
+2

I like that it is nonterminal... but there might be issues with that. The other nonterminal Remodel-family card is Upgrade, and that has "exactly". This one does not, so I'm afraid it enables milling piles. You can really speed up the game by multiple Province -> Province plays. Not sure how big of a problem that is. It might not be a problem,but it would defnitely be a thing to look out for in playtest rounds (if you didn't already).

That is a good point. I think we never looked out for that. The situation never came up because Restore was never part of any dominant strategy so far. But since we are going to go over the card again, possibly buffing it, we will consider adding "exactly" to it.

In case the card should turn out to be too unwieldy with "exactly", you can also try "gain a different card costing up to..." to avoid milling. It's unique in Dominion, but I don't think it would be confusing or overcomplex.
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5344
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #215 on: January 23, 2016, 09:42:19 am »
0

I like that it is nonterminal... but there might be issues with that. The other nonterminal Remodel-family card is Upgrade, and that has "exactly". This one does not, so I'm afraid it enables milling piles. You can really speed up the game by multiple Province -> Province plays. Not sure how big of a problem that is. It might not be a problem,but it would defnitely be a thing to look out for in playtest rounds (if you didn't already).

Well, the card gets worse the longer a game takes, so cutting it short might well be in a Restore player's interest. I admit we never actually tried a game in which one of us went to max this interaction out, but as Restore isn't particularly helpful to get a Province, i felt it should be okay.

Remodel does a similar thing, and will be able to do Gold->Province, too, regardless of Season. Of course it's terminal, but if you only mill one Province a turn, they are about equal. If you mill 2, for example from a starting hand of 2 Restores and 2 Provinces, Restore is stronger. But for more, you already need an engine for either card. It's true Remodel's Province-milling-engine needs additional +Actions as well, but Remodel costs $4 and Restore $5. There's got to be a few things where Restore is better, and if milling is what you care for, think of the other $5s you could have included in your mill instead.
Logged

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1527
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1470
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #216 on: January 23, 2016, 09:50:24 am »
+1

Is it necessary that this card is so much stronger in Spring (Estates->$5 cost) compared to Summer? I feel like this is just giving the 5/2 a huge advantage which doesn't seem needed thematically.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

Co0kieL0rd

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 743
  • Respect: +863
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #217 on: January 23, 2016, 09:58:24 am »
+1

Is it necessary that this card is so much stronger in Spring (Estates->$5 cost) compared to Summer? I feel like this is just giving the 5/2 a huge advantage which doesn't seem needed thematically.

We are going to test a version that is strongest in Summer but no promises, yet. Anyway think of a 5/2 versus 4/3 opening on a board with Witch, Mountebank, Count, Wharf, IGG etc.. I don't think Restore gets any worse than that. You'd still have to align Restore with an Estate and then you can still only expand it for $3 once.
Logged
Check out my fan cards!
Dominion: Seasons - a small set Asper and I made that revolves around a unique and original mechanic
Roots and Renewal - this set is about interacting with the Supply and manipulating your opening turns
Flash cards - trying out a new concept

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1527
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1470
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #218 on: January 23, 2016, 10:11:56 am »
+1

Is it necessary that this card is so much stronger in Spring (Estates->$5 cost) compared to Summer? I feel like this is just giving the 5/2 a huge advantage which doesn't seem needed thematically.

We are going to test a version that is strongest in Summer but no promises, yet. Anyway think of a 5/2 versus 4/3 opening on a board with Witch, Mountebank, Count, Wharf, IGG etc.. I don't think Restore gets any worse than that. You'd still have to align Restore with an Estate and then you can still only expand it for $3 once.

Yes, my point was that Dominion does not need another card that makes 5/2 so strong ;)  I feel that you can easily avoid such a thing with this card.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5344
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #219 on: January 23, 2016, 10:27:00 am »
+1

Is it necessary that this card is so much stronger in Spring (Estates->$5 cost) compared to Summer? I feel like this is just giving the 5/2 a huge advantage which doesn't seem needed thematically.

We are going to test a version that is strongest in Summer but no promises, yet. Anyway think of a 5/2 versus 4/3 opening on a board with Witch, Mountebank, Count, Wharf, IGG etc.. I don't think Restore gets any worse than that. You'd still have to align Restore with an Estate and then you can still only expand it for $3 once.

Yes, my point was that Dominion does not need another card that makes 5/2 so strong ;)  I feel that you can easily avoid such a thing with this card.

Well, let's assume a board with both Restore and Witch:
If i open Witch, i play Witch during Spring, draw two cards, probably buy somethign decent, and Summer starts with me having Witch and something decent, and you having a Curse.
If i open Restore, i can trash an Estate for a Witch. Summer starts with me having Witch and something decent (because that's what nonterminal Remodel is), and me having an Estate less.

Depending on how lucky or unlucky my Witch draw is, i'd say the Witch opening is at least as good.

I agree with you that increasing the gap between the different openings isn't something we should look for, and that's why we are considering the Summer option right now.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 10:28:09 am by Asper »
Logged

drsteelhammer

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1527
  • Shuffle iT Username: drsteelhammer
  • Respect: +1470
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #220 on: January 23, 2016, 10:56:37 am »
+1

Well, I think it is in the nature of junkers that they are better the earlier you can play them (besides Snow Witch :) ) whereas a trash for benefit doesn't have that problem necessarily. It's already better when you get it on 5/2, I just don't see why it would need the bonus of a non-terminal Expand play on top of that.

That said, I like the summer buff, it fits thematically aswell.
Logged
Join the Dominion League!

There is no bad shuffle that can not be surmounted by scorn.

trivialknot

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 757
  • Respect: +1171
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #221 on: January 23, 2016, 01:55:55 pm »
+3

I like that it is nonterminal... but there might be issues with that. The other nonterminal Remodel-family card is Upgrade, and that has "exactly". This one does not, so I'm afraid it enables milling piles. You can really speed up the game by multiple Province -> Province plays. Not sure how big of a problem that is. It might not be a problem,but it would defnitely be a thing to look out for in playtest rounds (if you didn't already).
Don't forget Transmogrify!  Transmogrify is more closely comparable, since it is also +1 action, and it also only remodels up to $1 more.  Transmogrify is also much better at milling Provinces than Restore.  In my experience, milling Provinces with Transmogrify is definitely a thing, but it's a good thing.  It doesn't ruin games, it adds that extra dimension of strategy.

My first impression of Restore is that it looks weak.  Remodel doesn't especially benefit from being non-terminal, since you can use it to remodel terminal actions that it collides with.  The winter effect is bad at gaining Provinces, which is what you'd want to do at that point, so I'd think that milling Provinces is the only useful winter ability.  But I could be wrong, I didn't playtest it.
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5344
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #222 on: January 25, 2016, 03:22:38 pm »
+5



Being a student in this Dominion is tough. Economy lessons start much too early. Ugh, why can a person never sleep in without having to fear they won't be able to produce money later? Maybe someone else has taken notes and can share them? I mean, there's really no need for ALL of us to visit that +Buy class. At least those +Action lessons were nice... I heard everything gets better in Winter semester, when you finally graduate and learn how to draw cards. When everybody looks at the things you can do now, and every kingdom wants your skills if you were there from the beginning. Hm... Maybe being a Student isn't that bad, after all.
Logged

GeneralRamos

  • Moneylender
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 151
  • Respect: +104
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #223 on: January 25, 2016, 03:54:02 pm »
+1

To clarify I understand this right, provided there are not other cards moving your tokens around, the possibility is...
In Spring, +1 Action +$1
In Summer, +2 Actions, +$1
In Fall, +2 Actions, +1 Buy, +$1
In Winter, +1 Card, +2 Actions, +1 Buy, +$1
And I presume the first time you play it in a given season, you don't get the token bonus because it was not on the student pile when you played it?
If I did read that correctly, then this sounds like the pile will be a mess covered in all those tokens. It might be advisable that they go onto a mat or something.
It seems like a bit of a late bloomer. The effects of the card are not really "worth $3" or more until Winter. And to get it that good you really need to have stuck with it from the start. I like it conceptually, but it feels like it needs a buff.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 03:58:26 pm by GeneralRamos »
Logged

Asper

  • Governor
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4995
  • Respect: +5344
    • View Profile
Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #224 on: January 25, 2016, 04:12:49 pm »
+1

To clarify I understand this right, provided there are not other cards moving your tokens around, the possibility is...
In Spring, +1 Action +$1
In Summer, +2 Actions, +$1
In Fall, +2 Actions, +1 Buy, +$1
In Winter, +1 Card, +2 Actions, +1 Buy, +$1
And I presume the first time you play it in a given season, you don't get the token bonus because it was not on the student pile when you played it?
If I did read that correctly, then this sounds like the pile will be a mess covered in all those tokens. It might be advisable that they go onto a mat or something.
It seems like a bit of a late bloomer. The effects of the card are not really "worth $3" or more until Winter. And to get it that good you really need to have stuck with it from the start. I like it conceptually, but it feels like it needs a buff.

Yes, you got all that correct.

Power-wise, we tried a few versions of Student and its power changes a lot depending on which is the basic bonus and what you get in which order. Originally, the basic bonus was +$1, and it was otherwise the same, making it a terminal Silver, a Silver, a +Buy Silver, and a Grand Market in the end. Another option i thought about recently would be to swap the Spring and Winter bonuses - it starts as a cantrip, becomes a Village, becomes a Worker's Village, becomes a Village-Market. Maybe that would be better.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 25  All
 

Page created in 0.056 seconds with 21 queries.