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Author Topic: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard  (Read 10742 times)

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Chris is me

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Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« on: January 08, 2016, 02:55:18 pm »
+6

Let's Discuss Adventures Cards is a daily(ish) series of forum threads where we discuss a different Adventures card each day. Right now the plan is to just go through all of them alphabetically, with a single thread for each Traveller line.



Card Text: +1 Card, +1 Action, At the start of your next turn, +$1 ---LINE--- When another player plays an Attack card, you may play this from your hand.

Some points of discussion to start with (discussion of anything else related to Bridge Troll is also welcomed):
  • What attacks inspire the use of Caravan Guard? Is the attack a successful defense against a certain kind of attack?
  • As a (sort of) Peddler variant, it is the cheapest available at $3. Is the delayed payoff enough of a drawback to make it not worth picking up when other Peddler variants would be sought out?
  • Does Caravan Guard have any unusual synergies with other cards? Anti-synergies?

---

My opinion: It's not that great of a card most of the time, but I'm slowly learning when it can be a useful asset. Caravan Guard really, really shines against discard attacks. While other cantrips present a degree of risk when bought in a game with a discard attack, Caravan Guard completely eliminates that risk, and gives you some money to boot. Now you don't have to risk blindly discarding a cantrip when the top of your deck might have had the exact card you needed - you get that information as soon as the attack is played. It also seems like a good pickup in a Minion game when you miss $5. But the utility of the card seems limited and the delayed payoff is awkward.
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Limetime

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2016, 03:03:02 pm »
0

Caravan guard is a card that suffers a lot from opportunity cost. Usually you would rather have a silver. Scrying pool makes caravan guard really kinda good. Because it's an attack that your opponents want to play, you can get the peddler effect quite reliably. Caravan guard is pretty good at defending from discard attacks because it overcomes the cantrip problem.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2016, 03:19:59 pm »
+1

Caravan isn't very good in my opinion. The reaction part is unique, but man, it's not a good card to play. Opportunity cost was mentioned, I'm going to echo that.
It provides compensation against Junkers/trashers, which I actually like, but I don't think it's great against discard attacks. It draws you a card, which lets you discard from a hand of 6 cards instead of 5 cards. Horse Traders, on the other hand, pretty much hard counters discard attacks. Overall I don't like this card, so I haven't bought it very often, making my opinion less valued. But it seems very lackluster.
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2016, 03:29:56 pm »
+1

Yeah, Caravan Guard is really really weak. As I've said before, a Peddler is just not the kind of card you can stand to have a delay in. I'd almost always rather have a Silver. Scrying Pool is one of the very few exceptions, I can't really think of another from the top of my head. I mean, even if your opponents have attacks, it's not exactly a stellar or a reliable defense against anything.

Definitely the worst card from the entire Adventures expansion, and one of the 10 worst cards in the game imo.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2016, 03:54:10 pm »
+4

Geez, so much hate for Caravan Guard. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns around once people are playing games with it online.

I think discard attacks are definitely the best reason to get Caravan Guards, but really in any game where you're getting attacked most turns, it's going to be better than Silver.

Could it cost $2? Sure, maybe. But there are lots of games where you'd rather have a cantrip than a Treasure, and Caravan Guard fills that role.

It is possible that Caravan Guard seemed better during Adventures playtesting, since it's a good target for Pathfinding, etc. I think it's probably fine at $3, though.
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2016, 03:59:41 pm »
+2

Could it cost $2? Sure, maybe. But there are lots of games where you'd rather have a cantrip than a Treasure, and Caravan Guard fills that role.

I guess that's true, but I think I'd rather have Great Hall in most of those cases. Or, because they're cheaper, Vagrant/Pearl Diver. Keeping in mind that those cards are not exactly power cards...

Caravan Guard does have a niche, but man, if its best use is to be ever so slightly better than nothing, that's not really something to be proud of.

I guess, like most weak cantrips, it's best when you need to chain actions anyway. Scrying Pool was mentioned, then there's Conspirator, Herald, and maybe actual Peddlers if you have enough +Buy. I recently bought a Scout in a Golem game for the sole reason of making said Golem non-terminal; Caravan Guard would have been good there too. Then again, so would Ruined Village...
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 04:04:42 pm by Aleimon Thimble »
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Infthitbox

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2016, 04:00:46 pm »
+1

It is possible that Caravan Guard seemed better during Adventures playtesting, since it's a good target for Pathfinding, etc. I think it's probably fine at $3, though.

It also lines up well against attacks that don't do anything; Adventures has 2.5 of these in Swamp Hag, Haunted Woods, and Giant (journey token down). Elsewhere, its like, Minion for coins or junk pile empty. I guess it also lets you draw to find another reaction, but that seems like a very small edge case.
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2016, 04:06:55 pm »
0

It also lines up well against attacks that don't do anything; Adventures has 2.5 of these in Swamp Hag, Haunted Woods, and Giant (journey token down). Elsewhere, its like, Minion for coins or junk pile empty. I guess it also lets you draw to find another reaction, but that seems like a very small edge case.

But if you buy something with the extra coin and card Caravan Guard gave you, Swamp Hag will still give you a Curse and Haunted Woods will still make you drop your green on your deck (if you have any).
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enfynet

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2016, 04:16:30 pm »
0

Man, I buy way too many of these. Typically, there is some form of attack present, and when there is my current turn sees a money boost from Caravan Guard, which possibly drew another Caravan Guard, which could potentially make up for the lost opportunity cost early.

Should I buy more Silver, possibly. But in an Action-heavy deck, I prefer the virtual money when I can get it.
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SCSN

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2016, 04:21:29 pm »
+4

Maybe this forum really is going downhill... all those unfavorable comparisons to Silver :(
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enfynet

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2016, 04:25:04 pm »
0

Maybe this forum really is going downhill... all those unfavorable comparisons to Silver :(
Winter isn't over yet...
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2016, 04:31:36 pm »
0

Maybe this forum really is going downhill... all those unfavorable comparisons to Silver :(
I've been in that boat before. Many times, actually. Welcome to the way I live everyday.
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Harley_Beckett

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2016, 04:41:36 pm »
0

It provides compensation against Junkers/trashers, which I actually like, but I don't think it's great against discard attacks. It draws you a card, which lets you discard from a hand of 6 cards instead of 5 cards.

Unless I'm misreading the card, I think that you might be. 

I believe, as a reaction to an attack, it gets played (down into the 'durations' section if your play area), thus allowing you to draw a card.  So, if the attack is a discard attack you still only have 5 cards to discard down from, but you do get a bonus one money on your next turn when its duration portion kicks in.

Is this its value?  That if you have multiples in hand it can help your next turn income substantially?  I still agree with the consensus that it's a pretty weak card.  Maybe it's designed as a direct counter to Relic?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 04:47:40 pm by Harley_Beckett »
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2016, 04:42:36 pm »
0

Maybe this forum really is going downhill... all those unfavorable comparisons to Silver :(

Would you say that it's unjustifiable to compare Oasis to Silver?

If so, why?

If not, why can't Caravan Guard be compared to Silver?
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2016, 04:43:52 pm »
0

It provides compensation against Junkers/trashers, which I actually like, but I don't think it's great against discard attacks. It draws you a card, which lets you discard from a hand of 6 cards instead of 5 cards.
You quoted me? But...why?
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Harley_Beckett

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2016, 04:49:48 pm »
0

It provides compensation against Junkers/trashers, which I actually like, but I don't think it's great against discard attacks. It draws you a card, which lets you discard from a hand of 6 cards instead of 5 cards.
You quoted me? But...why?

Sorry, accidentally posted before the post was complete! Darn IPad control interface...
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2016, 04:52:11 pm »
0

It provides compensation against Junkers/trashers, which I actually like, but I don't think it's great against discard attacks. It draws you a card, which lets you discard from a hand of 6 cards instead of 5 cards.
You quoted me? But...why?

Sorry, accidentally posted before the post was complete! Darn IPad control interface...
💔
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LastFootnote

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2016, 05:03:28 pm »
+6

It provides compensation against Junkers/trashers, which I actually like, but I don't think it's great against discard attacks. It draws you a card, which lets you discard from a hand of 6 cards instead of 5 cards.

Unless I'm misreading the card, I think that you might be. 

I believe, as a reaction to an attack, it gets played (down into the 'durations' section if your play area), thus allowing you to draw a card.  So, if the attack is a discard attack you still only have 5 cards to discard down from, but you do get a bonus one money on your next turn when its duration portion kicks in.

Is this its value?  That if you have multiples in hand it can help your next turn income substantially?  I still agree with the consensus that it's a pretty weak card.  Maybe it's designed as a direct counter to Relic?

Let's say that your hand is [Peddler, Peddler, Silver, Gold, Smithy] and you get hit by Militia. What do you discard? You know you might draw a Village with your Peddlers, so you could keep [Peddler, Peddler, Smithy], discarding $5 worth of Treasure. Or you could keep either [Gold, Silver, Peddler] or [Gold, Silver, Smithy] and hope for a lucky draw.

Now replace the Peddlers with Caravan Guards. When your opponent plays Militia, you play your Caravan Guards immediately, drawing an Estate and a Village. Now you know you should keep the Smithy and you can discard the Estate/Silver instead of Gold/Silver. Plus you get +$2 at the start of your next turn, of course.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 05:08:14 pm by LastFootnote »
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2016, 05:05:41 pm »
0

It provides compensation against Junkers/trashers, which I actually like, but I don't think it's great against discard attacks. It draws you a card, which lets you discard from a hand of 6 cards instead of 5 cards.

Unless I'm misreading the card, I think that you might be. 

I believe, as a reaction to an attack, it gets played (down into the 'durations' section if your play area), thus allowing you to draw a card.  So, if the attack is a discard attack you still only have 5 cards to discard down from, but you do get a bonus one money on your next turn when its duration portion kicks in.

Is this its value?  That if you have multiples in hand it can help your next turn income substantially?  I still agree with the consensus that it's a pretty weak card.  Maybe it's designed as a direct counter to Relic?
Oh, yes. When we played we played it correctly, I just blanked. You only get +1 card, so you're back up to 5 cards. Thanks!
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Mavy2k

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2016, 05:06:11 pm »
+1

Caravan Guard is a card that is nice to have, but usually there is a better option on the board.

The defense againt attacks is weak and doesn´t justify buying the card.

I think it fits best in engine decks, when you want some payload. You´re not adding a stop card and you´re slowly increasing your payload.

Like mentioned it works nice with Scrying Pools. Pretty good to add to a Tactician deck as well.

I would describe it as a card that is never bad to have, but never really strong.

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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2016, 05:07:29 pm »
+1

I would describe it as a card that is never bad to have
You must be new here. It's time to gather the armies for another edge case war!

EDIT: Oh snap, you're actually new here! You should go post on the 'Introductions' board!
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Mavy2k

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2016, 05:15:55 pm »
0

I would describe it as a card that is never bad to have
You must be new here. It's time to gather the armies for another edge case war!

EDIT: Oh snap, you're actually new here! You should go post on the 'Introductions' board!

Okay, will do that.

Did not get the part with the edge case war. Sorry, if I posted something stupid.
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SCSN

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2016, 05:20:21 pm »
+3

Maybe this forum really is going downhill... all those unfavorable comparisons to Silver :(

Would you say that it's unjustifiable to compare Oasis to Silver?

If so, why?

If not, why can't Caravan Guard be compared to Silver?

Well, you can compare anything to anything, e.g. both apples and oranges are approximately spherical in shape, but the comparison between Caravan Guard and Silver is about as relevant to actual Dominion play as the one between these two tasty fruits.

Generally you want one or two Silvers if it's important to hit 5 early, or as many Silvers as possible if you're playing some sort of Big Borefest (money, slogs, Feodum games). In these situations Silver is clearly superior and the thought of getting a Caravan Guard shouldn't even enter your mind. In most other spots, however, Silver is terrible and Caravan Guard is a pretty decent choice. Since usually one of them is clearly better, they never really compete; additionally, they fulfill quite different functions, hence I don't see these comparisons as making any sense at all.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 05:22:35 pm by SheCantSayNo »
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2016, 05:21:35 pm »
0

I would describe it as a card that is never bad to have
You must be new here. It's time to gather the armies for another edge case war!

EDIT: Oh snap, you're actually new here! You should go post on the 'Introductions' board!

Okay, will do that.

Did not get the part with the edge case war. Sorry, if I posted something stupid.
No, you don't post anything stupid.
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Mavy2k

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Caravan Guard
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2016, 05:48:01 pm »
0

I would describe it as a card that is never bad to have
You must be new here. It's time to gather the armies for another edge case war!

EDIT: Oh snap, you're actually new here! You should go post on the 'Introductions' board!

Okay, will do that.

Did not get the part with the edge case war. Sorry, if I posted something stupid.
No, you don't post anything stupid.

Glad to hear that.

Are you letting me in on the insight joke? ;-)
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