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Author Topic: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll  (Read 15789 times)

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Chris is me

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Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« on: January 07, 2016, 05:54:29 pm »
+7

Let's Discuss Adventures Cards is a daily(ish) series of forum threads where we discuss a different Adventures card each day. Right now the plan is to just go through all of them alphabetically, with a single thread for each Traveller line.



Card Text: Each other player takes his -$1 token. Now and at the start of your next turn: +1 Buy ----HORIZONTAL LINE---- While this is in play, cards cost $1 less on your turns, but not less than $0.

Some points of discussion to start with (discussion of anything else related to Bridge Troll is also welcomed):
  • Instead of giving you +$1, Bridge Troll takes $1 away from your opponents. How much is that +$1 for the user missed? How effective is this attack? Is the attack a strong reason to use Bridge Troll, or just a side benefit?
  • How does the Duration nature of Bridge Troll help it as a card? Is it that much better than Bridge or Highway as a result? Are there any combos unique to Bridge Troll / performed more easily by Bridge Troll versus other cost reducers?

----
My opinion: Bridge Troll is pretty cool. It's easy to understate how good cost reduction over two separate turns is, which even with just one or two Bridge Troll can be quite helpful. In the games I've played with Bridge Troll, I've had a lot more trouble picking them up en masse than I do with Bridge or Highway. Highway is a cantrip, so it's not taking up hand or terminal space. Bridge is both cheaper and provides a coin to help you buy more Bridges with, so it is a lot easier to pick up as well. It's sometimes a struggle to stuff even 3 or 4 Bridge Trolls in a deck where you also need to buy engine components and Provinces. But I'm sure I just need more experience with it.

I'm genuinely not sure how strong the attack is. I think it's more of a nusiance than anything else, but it's a neat little bonus I guess.
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Mavy2k

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2016, 06:50:50 pm »
+1

Well, the obvious comparison is bridge, but it plays out quite different.
A bridge is still better for a mega-turn, it costs one less and gives you a copper.
The cost reduction and the +buy is very nice, I would compare it to a festival.
The -1 token is close to irrelevant in the late game, but is devastating at the start. A 5/2 can really hurt your oponent, especially, if there are no 2 cost cards.
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2016, 07:19:27 pm »
0

I'm of the opinion that it's not as strong as Bridge or Highway. Bridge is cheaper, can be Throned/Kinged and is better for your economy, and Highway can be chained a lot easier. Cost reducers are best in some kind of megaturn strategy, and it's just a lot harder to pull off with Bridge Troll. Of course, Bridge Troll has an attack and is a Duration, but I don't think it's enough to make up for it.

Still, Bridge Troll can be strong. Like Fishing Village, Wharf or Haunted Woods, it's best if you can play half of your Bridge Trolls on one turn and the other half on your other turn, as soon as you're drawing your deck. That way, you'll maximize the benefits. Having 8 Bridge Trolls is probably not going to happen, due to the price and the fact that you'll probably get contested, but having 6 Bridge Trolls is pretty awesome and you will only need a tiny bit of economy to end the game on a win. Just be careful to track your opponent's deck as well, to prevent yourself from getting piled out.
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aku_chi

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2016, 08:46:51 pm »
+1

The attack portion of Bridge Troll is the least important, I'd say.  It's similar to Cutpurse; pretty annoying early, pretty bearable late-game.

As other people have noted, Bridge Troll does not lend itself to a megaturn strategy like Bridge does; it's just too difficult to get more than 5-6 in play.  But Bridge Troll is still very strong.  In a deck-drawing engine with just a village or two, you can play 2-3 Bridge Trolls each turn and reap 4-6 cost reduction.  Bridge Troll is great at picking up additional engine components and Gold.  Bridge Troll is also great at buying alt-VP.  I haven't played with Bridge Troll and Duke, but I wouldn't be surprised if most kingdoms present a good engine-into-Duchy&Duke strategy involving Bridge Troll.  Fairgrounds, Nobles, and Harem also seem like they would work well with Bridge Troll.

There hasn't been a bad cost-reduction card yet.  Bridge Troll may or may not compare favorably to Bridge and Highway (time will tell), but it's still often a game-changing card.

My big question is: when is the best time to buy Bridge Trolls?  They're most valuable once you have a thriving engine, but... they do help a little with engine building by themselves, they might be contested, and the attack is more valuable early.  I don't think Bridge Troll is a particularly strong opening, unless there are a lot of cheap engine components that you want in bulk (compare with Cutpurse or Bridge - hardly the best 4-cost openers).
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gkrieg13

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2016, 10:59:50 pm »
0

My problem with bridge troll is often that I have +buy on the turn that I play them, but only 1 buy on the next turn, when I have all of the money that could use the +buy
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eHalcyon

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2016, 11:26:47 pm »
+4

My problem with bridge troll is often that I have +buy on the turn that I play them, but only 1 buy on the next turn, when I have all of the money that could use the +buy

It gives +1 Buy on both turns.
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enfynet

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2016, 11:50:18 pm »
0

My problem with bridge troll is often that I have +buy on the turn that I play them, but only 1 buy on the next turn, when I have all of the money that could use the +buy

It gives +1 Buy on both turns.
That +1 Buy and multi-turn cost reduction actually boosts it's power quite a bit. I wouldn't hesitate to compare it to Wharf. It is a bit weaker, so the Attack portion helps make up the difference. Unfortunately, that part doesn't stack., and is also somewhat countered by your opponent's own Bridge Troll. Playing multiples of these per turn will help build an engine fairly quickly, I think.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2016, 12:06:26 am »
+2

Bridge Troll, in my opinion, is not super powerful.
Its attack is weak, and it costs $5, which we all know is an elite cost. But let's break Bridge Troll down:
First of all, it gives +buy, and it's always nice to see +buy on a board.
It's attack is very similiar to a Cutpurse that always hits. Personally, it's more annoying to remember to flip my -$1 token up and down than the actual attack is.
You buy it for the cost reduction, which is very good. It gives cost reduction on two turns, making it usually better than Bridge (hence the fact that it costs more). It cannot be Throned or KCed though, which is a strike against it. It's very good to get multiples in play per turn, one Bridge Troll isn't very good. I haven't played with Bridge Troll much so I don't have too much to say, so that's about it.
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enfynet

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2016, 12:12:45 am »
0

Playing IRL does make remember the -1 Coin token a tiny bit tedious to remember. But it's really no more difficult than tracking Coin Tokens.

Bridge Troll is comparable to Princess as Caravan is comparable to Laboratory. The biggest difference being the fact multiples can be in play at any given time. The duration effect allows these to "avoid" collision in a way Bridge cannot do.
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gkrieg13

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2016, 12:50:58 am »
+5

My problem with bridge troll is often that I have +buy on the turn that I play them, but only 1 buy on the next turn, when I have all of the money that could use the +buy

It gives +1 Buy on both turns.

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Mavy2k

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2016, 08:53:58 am »
0

It cannot be Throned or KCed though, which is a strike against it.

Should work with Throne Room and King´s Court, unless i´m missing something.
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singletee

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2016, 08:58:30 am »
+1

It cannot be Throned or KCed though, which is a strike against it.

Should work with Throne Room and King´s Court, unless i´m missing something.

You can Throne or King it, but the only part that gets multiplied is the +Buy.

aku_chi

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2016, 09:19:51 am »
+2

Potentially unhelpful card comparison: Bridge Troll and Merchant Guild.

Both cards provide +1 buy and make it a little easier to buy cards this turn (+1 coin or -1 cost reduction).  Bridge Troll is almost strictly better here*.
Both cards make it easier to buy cards in the future.  Merchant Guild provides +1 coin token per card bought this turn.  Bridge Troll provides +1 buy and -1 cost reduction next turn.  Merchant Guild is generally more flexible here, but it's nice that Bridge Troll provides +buy on the next turn.
Bridge Troll misses more shuffles, but it also attacks.
Neither can be effectively throned.

I would think that, most of the time, if you want Merchant Guild, you'll want Bridge Troll.  They also synergize with each other, provided you have sufficient +action.

*Edge Case: You only buy Events.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 09:33:12 am by aku_chi »
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Aleimon Thimble

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2016, 09:26:50 am »
0

Potentially unhelpful card comparison: Bridge Troll and Merchant Guild.

Both cards provide +1 buy and make it a little easier to buy cards this turn (+1 coin or -1 cost reduction).  Bridge Troll is strictly better here.
Both cards make it easier to buy cards in the future.  Merchant Guild provides +1 coin token per card bought this turn.  Bridge Troll provides +1 buy and -1 cost reduction next turn.  Merchant Guild is generally more flexible here, but it's nice that Bridge Troll provides +buy on the next turn.
Bridge Troll misses more shuffles, but it also attacks.
Neither can be effectively throned.

I would think that most of the time that you want Merchant Guild, you'll want Bridge Troll.

Interesting comparison. I've always found Merchant Guild somewhat similar to (but a lot weaker than) Goons. You want a lot of them in play to stack the benefits - the amount of tokens (VP/coin) increases exponentially that way. I guess Bridge Troll (and, to a lesser extent, Bridge) fulfills a role that's also similar, but the payload isn't tokens this time, but cost reduction.
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Infthitbox

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2016, 10:30:37 am »
0

Quick note before Legitimate Dominion ContentTM: the art on this card reminds me a lot of Shadow of Mordor.

Bridge Troll vs. Bridge - The comparisons are natural, and the conclusion is too: Bridge > Bridge Troll. In kingdoms with both, unless you are really hurting for terminal space (Crossroads with no other options, just Necropolis), I think its clear that Bridge Troll doesn't stack up. The attack is annoying, but I feel like by the time you can consistently get a Bridge Troll into play, the -1 coin token just isn't enough of a hindrance to compete with the lower cost and the coin provided by Bridge. I suppose if you are ahead, the Bridge Troll attack can help you keep that advantage, but so does just trying to get further ahead by concentrating on improving your deck. Of course, Bridge Troll doesn't offer the same megaturn capabilities, which is a huge part of the power of Bridge.

Bridge Troll vs. Merchant Guild - I wouldn't have thought about this, so its interesting to compare the cards this way. I actually feel this is a good comparison, particularly when I think about when I want to buy/gain them. I often think about getting Merchant Guilds when my engine has starting running with the purpose of acquiring enough components quickly enough to be robust in the point-gathering phase. A single Bridge Troll will do more work than a Merchant Guild earlier, but it still is a terminal that doesn't draw. It does help you pick up multiple components over multiple turns, which means maybe you can get them a little earlier than Merchant Guilds.


In this case I think the comparison does actually get you a lot of the way there; many of the decks that want Bridge would still acquire it if it cost 5 or wasn't throneable. Certainly it is important that the card is not Bridge for the purposes of megaturns and the like. I suppose people who have a great intuitive feel for what Wharf (and Merchant Ship, etc) requires as far as villages go will be able to easily figure out how many villages can support how many Bridge Trolls at different points of the game; its pretty easy to figure out when you know you're reliably drawing your deck and getting into the rhythm of playing half of your Bridge Trolls every turn, but its non-trivial before that, especially considering the terminal space occupied by the draw required to get there (they can't all be Wharf). Personally, if I had a good enough feel for Bridge and Merchant Ship (duration terminal that doesn't draw), I feel like I could get 8/10 of the way there with Bridge Troll.
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werothegreat

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2016, 09:17:41 am »
+4

Bridge Troll is my favorite from Adventures.  :D

Seriously, you guys are really underestimating the fact that you get the cost reduction across two turns.  It's very easy to get two BTs consistently in play, and in an engine, even more, since they take up half the terminal space as bridge for the same reduction benefit.  Add to that the Attack (the least powerful part of the card) happening every single turn, and you very quickly see that a match is often determined by who can get these puppies into play first.  And since it's a Duration, you can actually synergize BT with Workshop, Artificer, etc without Prince shenanigans.
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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2016, 12:55:37 pm »
0

Bridge Troll is my favorite from Adventures.  :D

When did Giant stop being your favorite card from Adventures? I'm pretty sure that was your original favorite early on.
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Eran of Arcadia

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2016, 03:49:44 pm »
+17

When did Giant stop being your favorite card from Adventures?

It will be his favorite card again as soon as he flips over his Journey token.
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Donald X.

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2016, 07:54:08 pm »
+1

The attack certainly hurts; you are not looking forward to it when Bridge Trolls are around. It's a Cutpurse that never misses (but isn't cumulative, phew).

The Bridge part is great for lining up multiple Bridge effects. I don't think you see the really big Bridge turn as often, but you get multiples at once more often.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2016, 08:01:22 pm »
+3

The attack certainly hurts; you are not looking forward to it when Bridge Trolls are around. It's a Cutpurse that never misses (but isn't cumulative, phew).

The Bridge part is great for lining up multiple Bridge effects. I don't think you see the really big Bridge turn as often, but you get multiples at once more often.
Man, Donald is hitting these Adventures threads hard.
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DG

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Re: Let's Discuss Adventures Cards: Bridge Troll
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2016, 09:56:33 pm »
+4

The attack certainly hurts; you are not looking forward to it when Bridge Trolls are around. It's a Cutpurse that never misses (but isn't cumulative, phew).

The Bridge part is great for lining up multiple Bridge effects. I don't think you see the really big Bridge turn as often, but you get multiples at once more often.
Man, Donald is hitting these Adventures threads hard.

But in this thread he is just trolling us.
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