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Author Topic: Abbey, a mass trash for benefit à la Forge  (Read 9071 times)

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Accatitippi

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Re: Cloister - a cheaper Forge?
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2016, 02:30:19 pm »
+4

I've tested it once, and it went over quite well. It was the only trashing. I went for an engine using Cloister exactly as I'd use Steward (a bad idea, in hindsight), and my opponent went for Smithy BM, which won 5-3 Provinces. Cloister was very frustrating to use in the midgame, clearing one copper at a time without any benefits. I never got the Province gain, but I didn't really set up for it either, since I had trashed my Estates. I had the option of milling a Province at a certain point but I was behind so I didn't. Upgrading Duchies could have been cool but I bought them too late (or the game ended too early).
So, I think the card has potential, and I'm going to go on testing it. I've buffed it by letting it trash Curses (using Drab's wording) and by making it a terminal copper, to avoid hurting you too much in the midgame.
Also, I renamed it to Abbey to fit the art I found:
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Accatitippi

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Re: Abbey, a mass trash for benefit à la Forge
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2016, 11:13:16 am »
+1

I've played a few more times with it, it's all right, and the Province gain is occasionally very useful and neat.
I believe it's still clearly underpowered, though, when you compare it to other tfb cards at the same price point.
Fact is, if Curses aren't around, you'll have trouble finding Victory cards to feed into this, since Estates are pretty much the only thing it can trash efficiently, and are thus long gone.

I'm not sure about what to do about it. Lowering the price to 2 could work, and shouldn't break anything, and it would make it more competitive against other trashers just in virtue of its opening-friendly price. And then I can be content having it as a cute little trasher that is situationally powerful.
Another option could be putting a bigger carrot at the end of the tfb stick. I was thinking "gain two differently named Victory cards", so that you can still feed good victory cards into it and get out some value. But here, I'm afraid that it might create degenerate strategies, mini Rebuild-style. Also, the interaction with Colonies and some alt-vp migt be toxic.

I'm not yet sure what way to go, and I'd love to hear your thoughts and/or suggestions about possibilities beside those I wrote above. :)
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tristan

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Re: Abbey, a mass trash for benefit à la Forge
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2016, 04:31:55 am »
+1

If it is too weak, why not simply make it a cantrip or +2 Cards to increase the chance of hitting 3 different types?
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Abbey, a mass trash for benefit à la Forge
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2016, 09:15:15 am »
+1

I've played a few more times with it, it's all right, and the Province gain is occasionally very useful and neat.
I believe it's still clearly underpowered, though, when you compare it to other tfb cards at the same price point.
Fact is, if Curses aren't around, you'll have trouble finding Victory cards to feed into this, since Estates are pretty much the only thing it can trash efficiently, and are thus long gone.

I'm not sure about what to do about it. Lowering the price to 2 could work, and shouldn't break anything, and it would make it more competitive against other trashers just in virtue of its opening-friendly price. And then I can be content having it as a cute little trasher that is situationally powerful.
Another option could be putting a bigger carrot at the end of the tfb stick. I was thinking "gain two differently named Victory cards", so that you can still feed good victory cards into it and get out some value. But here, I'm afraid that it might create degenerate strategies, mini Rebuild-style. Also, the interaction with Colonies and some alt-vp migt be toxic.

I'm not yet sure what way to go, and I'd love to hear your thoughts and/or suggestions about possibilities beside those I wrote above. :)
I made a version that costs $2. I like it this way as it somewhat self-synergies. Now you are guaranteed to have a cheap action to throw at it. I'm fine with this being a niche card. If it's too niche you can still change it to +2 cards or +1 cards.
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schadd

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Re: Abbey, a mass trash for benefit à la Forge
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2016, 01:02:41 pm »
+2

i tried a couple games of village/wharf abbey, and lemme tell ya. this is not an easy card. that said, i think the best that engine can do is 4 provinces on t12-13, and you can weakly mill provinces or take more time to build. it may be a better card than bridge, but probably not. i think its ideal environment is ironworks/$4 draw, like worker's/smithy or advisor and some other stuff.


it is maybe garbage as payload if there aren't buys, so maybe give it one of those.


it could cost 5 maybe if it were +2 cards but it can't be less than that because that card is masquerade++.


it seems pretty cool. its place in the game is not easily intuited from the card text.
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tristan

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Re: Abbey, a mass trash for benefit à la Forge
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2016, 05:52:12 pm »
0

it could cost 5 maybe if it were +2 cards but it can't be less than that because that card is masquerade++.
While Masquerade does trash it is not strictly better or worse than a card which merely trashes. For example owning Masquerade disincentives everybody, including yourself, from buying junkers.
That said, the difference is obviously not that huge but the main issue is that Masquerade costs 3$ and not 4$. So an Abbey, a card that costs 4$, with +2 cards is totally fine.
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