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Author Topic: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Results!)  (Read 9796 times)

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markusin

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2016, 12:02:15 pm »
+1

I submitted a card for this. I feel like making an Adventures card for this contest is difficult because the central theme of Adventures to me seems to be about pushing boundaries and changing up what we are used to. There are lots of different mechanics in Adventures, but they tend to really shake things up.

I feel like it might not be enough to just have a card that incorporates the mechanics of Adventures. You'll probably want to have a card that involves strategic considerations outside of what we're used to from other expansions.
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2016, 11:13:55 am »
+2

Last day for submissions and modifications!
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2016, 11:42:36 pm »
+6

We had 17 cards submitted for this round. These have been lightly edited for formatting only.

Quote
Blueprint
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
You may move your Trashing token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may trash a card from your hand.)
Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you trash a card, you may call this, to gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

Quote
Boathand
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $3
+2 Actions
Put this card on your tavern mat.

Directly after resolving an action, if it's still in play, you may call this to draw up to 5 cards in hand.

Quote
Borough
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card. +1 Action. Look at the top card of your deck; discard it or put it back. You may take your -1 Card token. If you do, +1 Action.

Quote
Circus
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card, +1 Action
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, swap one of your tokens on the Circus pile.

At the start of the game, each player puts his -$2 and +1 Buy tokens on this pile.

Clarification: swapping means to remove one of your tokens from the pile and replace it with a different one. Valid tokens are those that go on the Action Supply piles, i.e. the vanilla bonus tokens, the trashing token and the -$2 token.

Quote
Elven Palace
Type: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
For the rest of the game, at the end of your buy phase, you may trash a card from your hand.
(This card stays in play.)

Quote
Enchanted Broom
Types: Action - Duration
Cost: $2
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: Trash a card from your hand.

When you gain this, put it on top of your deck.

Quote
Engineer
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+Buy
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up); then if it's face up, you may move your Trashing token and your -$2 token to an Action Supply pile.

Clarification: The Trashing token and the -$2 token must be moved to the same Action Supply pile.

Quote
Foundry
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $4. Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you gain a card, you may call this, to put the gained card either into your hand or on top of your deck.

Quote
Harlequin
Types: Action - Attack
Cost: $5
Each other player flips their reserve token face up
Flip your reserve token over (It starts face up)
If it's face up
+5$ and each other player discards down to 3 cards in his hand

Quote
Innkeeper
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card, +1 Action.
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up).  If it is face up, +1 Card, +1 Action.

Quote
Junk Collector
Types: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
Now and at the start of your next turn:
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Curse, Ruins, Shelter and Victory cards into your hand. Put one of the other cards on top of your deck and discard the rest.
For each discarded Action card: +1 Action
For each discarded Treasure card: + $1

Worth 1 VP per 5 cards divided by the number of players in the trash (rounded down).

Clarification: If you reveal 3 Curses, Ruins, Shelters and Victory cards you cannot topdeck or discard any card. If you reveal 2 dead/bad cards you topdeck one card and discard none. If there are e.g. 29 cards in the trash in a 3P game you divide 29 by 5 and 3 and round it down which yields 1.

Quote
Paladin
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $5
Choose two: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1. (Choices may be the same)
You may reveal a province from your hand. If you do, place your +card, +action, +coin, or +buy token on the Paladin supply pile.

When you gain a curse or ruins, you may reveal this. If you do, trash the gained card.

Quote
Recruit
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Put this on your tavern mat.

At the start of your turn, you may call this, to turn your journey token over (it starts face up); and if it's face up, for the rest of the turn, whenever you play an action, you first get +1 card.

Quote
Research Assistant
Type: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the beginning of your Buy phase, you may call this. If you do, discard two cards.

Quote
Scholar
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1

When you gain this, if you have no token of yours on the Scholar pile, move your +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, or +$1 token to the Scholar pile. (when you play a Scholar you first get that bonus)

Quote
Sunken City
Types: Action Duration
Cost: $2
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn: Reveal the top card of your deck. If it is an action card, play it. Otherwise, discard it.

Quote
Tinkerer
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to $4.
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the start of your Buy phase, you may call this, to trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.

Submit your votes to me via this forum's messaging system. To vote, give each card a score from 0 to 10. (It is recommended, but not required, that you give at least one card a 0 and at least one card a 10, to maximize your voting input.) The winner will be the card with the highest sum. Feel free to discuss the cards (but not your scores) in this thread.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 07:25:37 pm by mith »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2016, 01:21:46 am »
+1

Quick initial reactions:

-Blueprint: interesting. Like Transmogrify at the end of a turn instead of the beginning.
-Boathand: Interesting take on the draw-to-5 village (like Restored Village & Sanitarium). might be good.
-Borough: meh.
-Circus: I like this use of vanilla bonus tokens, though it probably needs better wording.
-Elven Palace: no.
-Enchanted Broom: nope.
-Engineer: also no.
-Foundry: okay armory variant, but not very interesting to look at. Could be good.
-Harlequin: The concept is interesting (attacking the journey token), but might turn out to be too frustrating (especially on boards where it isn't possible/practical to play a terminal twice in a turn often). At first it seemed overpowered, but after thinking about it, it might not be.
-Junk Collector: convoluted. Could be considerably better with the bottom part dropped and the top part shortened/simplified somehow.
-Paladin: Kinda similar to circus, I like it except that it often will give an advantage to the player who's already ahead (like tournament but not as bad as tournament).
-Recruit: seems weak, and I don't think I like the journey token and reserve mechanics combined.
-Research Assistant: seems an okay drawback for a $4 lab, would need testing to see if it's enough of a drawback though. I like it.
-Scholar: way overpowered.
-Sunken City: a duration herald variant. I like it.
-Tinkerer: meh.  I think it's hard to come up with new & good remodel or workshop variants though after the ones already out there.

EDIT: I missed the "if you have no token of yours on the Scholar pile" part of Scholar, and I missed Innkeeper completely. Were things added to the OP after my post?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 09:09:01 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2016, 02:51:36 am »
+1

Boathand is strictly superior to Production Village and thus too cheap.

Borough is a nice mixture of ideas from Spy and Hamlet. A possible variation would be to put the deck inspection before the card draw but that might make the card too strong.

Circus is a great idea! The first move might be scripted (in most decks, i.e. unless you need the extra buy for Fool's Gold or Peddler or whatever, you will probably keep the card at a cost of 4$ and swap the +1Buy for +1Card to convert the Market Square sans Reaction into a Lab) but then it really becomes interesting as you gotta make tricky choices each and every time. The key decision is obviously when to sawp the cost reduction token.

Elven Palace and Enchanted Broom are bad Hireling variants. The former has limited use as you can only use it to trash Coppers and the latter is on the one hand too cheap for 2$ and on the other hand masochistic in the middlegame and endgame as it will force-trash good cards.

Foundry is (nearly) strictly better than Armory. Probably not the end of the world but having one or two of them on your mat in order to call and thus hand-gain that Gold or Platinum or Grand Market or whatever in the middlegame sounds pretty strong. I like the idea but it has to be playtested.

Harlequin should probably use the Journey token. The token attack thingy sounds like fun.

Innkeeper is probably overpowered. Hell, it could even be overpowered at 4$.

About my own card, Junk Collector, admittedly a bit of a frustrating read. The key idea behind all that text is self-balance: if you draw more dead cards you get less Actions/coins. There is some mild self-synergy (Junk Collector draws itself) and the card is obviously stronger in junking and/or trashing games. You rarely get it over 1VP (had one crazy game with Mercenary as trasher and Asper's Hospital as self-junker in which the card really shone and led to 3VP).

Paladin is fairly weak. You gotta buy it shortly before you green but even then it takes time to build it up. And unlike Tournament you cannot really spam your deck with it (as it is cheaper and, pre-Province, weaker than Tournament).

Recruit sounds interesting.

Scholar is too strong.

Asper's Sunken City is simple and good (and unlike Herald cheap). And hey, you can print it!
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2016, 08:22:00 am »
+2

Boathand is strictly superior to Production Village and thus too cheap.

Just a quick remark: It's not strictly superior, since you need to get another action in play for it. In a lot of cases, it's probably worse than Production village
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Asper

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2016, 08:43:54 am »
0

I agree Boathand is not strictly better than Production Village or even Village because you can't call it on itself.

I first thought Research Assistant was just a very specific defense against Haunted Woods. It's an interesting idea to have a punishing Reserve, although Wine Merchant goes in a similar direction.

I like that Innkeeper is so simple.

Enchanted Broom seems... dangerous?

Junk Collector counts the players in the trash, that's cool. But no, seriously, i think it's too wordy.

I don't like how in multiplayer games, people might play Harlequin's all the time without anybody getting the bonus. Kind of means that the only way to stop Harlequin is to cripple yourself (by getting yourself a Harlequin), which i think isn't that cool. The more you know: In Germany, Jester is named Harlekin (which means Harlequin, in case you were wondering).

Sunken City (my card) doesn't use an Adventures-specific mechanic and could just as well go to Seaside. If you don't mind that, that's cool, but i think it's fair to point it out.

Calling multiple Recruits seems like a decent way to enable a megaturn.

Also, it's interesting to note how many cards here put tokens on their own piles.

tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2016, 08:51:20 am »
0

Boathand is strictly superior to Production Village and thus too cheap.

Just a quick remark: It's not strictly superior, since you need to get another action in play for it. In a lot of cases, it's probably worse than Production village
My mistake, I was confused about the timing and thought that the card is put on the tavern mat and then the stuff beneath the seperating line applies
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2016, 08:56:52 am »
0

Junk Collector counts the players in the trash, that's cool. But no, seriously, i think it's too wordy.
I don't wanna defend my card but I never got the "wordy" criticism in the first place. Official cards like Scrying Pool and Tournament are also fairly "wordy" and when you first play with them it takes some time to figure out what they mean but afterwards you basically know it (or quickly go over the text to remember it).
Of course one should strive for brevity but if it is not possible to express how a card works with fewer words one has to leave it be. The only other option is then to make a simpler card.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 08:57:57 am by tristan »
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Asper

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2016, 09:05:37 am »
0

Junk Collector counts the players in the trash, that's cool. But no, seriously, i think it's too wordy.
I don't wanna defend my card but I never got the "wordy" criticism in the first place. Official cards like Scrying Pool and Tournament are also fairly "wordy" and when you first play with them it takes some time to figure out what they mean but afterwards you basically know it (or quickly go over the text to remember it).
Of course one should strive for brevity but if it is not possible to express how a card works with fewer words one has to leave it be. The only other option is then to make a simpler card.

Okay, you are right. My criticism isn't really that it's too wordy, but that i prefer more simple cards.

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2016, 09:19:16 am »
+1

I like Blueprint, looks tricky to play right and is very interesting.

Circus is an okay card, but I don't like having all tokens available just because of one card. The token minigame may also be too distracting for my taste

Elven Palace is a too convenient trasher without being that interesting, in my opinion.

Enchanted Broom sounds brutal. Forced trashing until the end of the game? I probably wouldnt dare to buy this in most of my games

Engineer: while I like the idea, I see no reasons this should be an action instead of an event

I like Foundry. A reserve gainer, that's something new. Altough it is most likely too strong since it can gain actions in hand.

Innkeeper is broken at 3. Its effect is stictly better than Herald's hit. Spamming this card is like hitting 50% of the Heralds but getting to choose the order of playing the drawn cards. Maybe it needs to be slightly better at 4 but it's definitely too good at 3

Why is Junk collector not a VP card? I also think it should self-synergize in some way with their VP

Paladin sounds cool, I don't know why it has the reaction, though. May make it a bit strong.

I'm undecided whether Recruit is broken or balanced.

Question about Research assistant: Can you play treasures before discarding? (Both happen at the beginning, right?) Should probably changed to end of the action phase, otherwise you just call all of them, discarding junk or failing to discard anything.

Scholar is decently versatile but you pay a price for the versatility. This may work out well.

Sunken City, maybe a bit too strong? It's a village when it hits, on the second turn a lost city. On top, it discards the "bad" card otherwise? I think it needs a nerf in some way to be a 2-cost

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Asper

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2016, 09:36:53 am »
0

Sunken City, maybe a bit too strong? It's a village when it hits, on the second turn a lost city. On top, it discards the "bad" card otherwise? I think it needs a nerf in some way to be a 2-cost

Sunken City is good when it hits, but its also very unreliable. If it doesn't hit, it's a Ruined Village now and a cantrip next turn - just like Herald is a cantrip if it fails. Of course you are right about it discarding non-action cards, too, but you should keep in mind that playing a card from the top of your deck isn't exactly the same as just giving +1 card +1 action. I have often had it happen that Sunken City played a terminal from my deck, when i really would have wanted additional actions to play the cards in my hand.

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2016, 05:08:53 pm »
+1

My personal preference for this contest is for Reserve cards and cards that use Adventures tokens.  Durations are an Adventures thing too, but I think even more complex ones fit just as well for Seaside's treasure chest slots.  I'd like the Adventures card(s) to use mechanisms that are unique to Adventures.

One of these cards is mine.  I'm writing this before reading others' comments.

Quote
Blueprint
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
You may move your Trashing token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may trash a card from your hand.)
Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you trash a card, you may call this, to gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

The card as a whole gives you an optional mini version of Farmland on-gain for one card.  The Reserve effect can also be used to combo with other trashers (be it your own or as a response to trashing attacks).  Then there's the utility of the trashing token itself.  Very interesting.  I think it's too different from anything to judge cost without testing, but $4 seems OK.  Plan is $3 and this is slower, but has additional utility.  I think I'd prefer a version where moving the Trashing token was non-optional when you play it.

Quote
Boathand
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $3
+2 Actions
Put this card on your tavern mat.

Directly after resolving an action, if it's still in play, you may call this to draw up to 5 cards in hand.

It has to draw comparisons to Production Village from the old mini-set design contest (+2 actions, draw up to 5 in hand) which seems to be appropriately priced at $4.  The "if it's still in play" clause means that it can't be called immediately, nor after another Boathand (or any other Reserve) is played. 

I'm not totally sure, but I think that this makes the card much stronger than Production Village when it collides with payload cards (read: non-drawing terminals) since you can maximize the draw, but also much weaker when it doesn't, since it ends up being a wasted Necropolis on play and then the Reserve effect is much less desirable if it's used with no actions remaining.  Ah, but then it's also much stronger overall with non-terminal handsize-decreasers like Warehouse and Oasis, whether they match up or not.  I think $3 will be too cheap for it.

It's interesting, but I'm not sure if making it a Reserve elevates the idea.  I liked Production Village just fine as it was.

Quote
Borough
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card. +1 Action. Look at the top card of your deck; discard it or put it back. You may take your -1 Card token. If you do, +1 Action.

Note: the proper wording is "put your -1 Card token on your deck".

This sounds like a really weak card to me, even for $2.  It might have some use when you're absolutely desperate for actions, but I think that the -1 Card token is going to hurt so much more here than on any of the official cards.  If you're using it in an engine (as is ideal for a village), you're likely to hit yourself with the -1 Card multiple times every turn.

I think the best use cases would be with draw-to-X and as cheap backup in a deck that has other +actions available.  But draw-to-X is rare and just a mitigation of the weakness, and "backup village" is already done way better in Adventures with Coin of the Realm.

Quote
Circus
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card, +1 Action
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, swap one of your tokens on the Circus pile.

At the start of the game, each player puts his -$2 and +1 Buy tokens on this pile.

Clarification: swapping means to remove one of your tokens from the pile and replace it with a different one. Valid tokens are those that go on the Action Supply piles, i.e. the vanilla bonus tokens, the trashing token and the -$2 token.

Note: all the bonus token cards and events have clarifying text on them about the token effects.  With reference to Teacher, this should probably say something like "(when you play a Circus, you first get those bonuses)" at the end.  That said, it may get confusing since the tokens are practically guaranteed to change as the game goes on.  Moreover, adding that line may make the text too long to fit.  It's only a clarifying parenthetical though, so it may be OK to omit.

Another clarification is needed - can you swap with tokens that are on different piles?  I think that would be a neat thing without it being too strong.

I like the general concept.  The starting cost with the -$2 token is interesting, making it an affordable (but still overpriced) card that improves itself later.  It's sort of like a customizable Traveller line that way too.

I think it may be more interesting if it started with the Trashing token instead of the +1 Buy token, but maybe that would make it too strong.  Tracking difficulty is a concern here.  The Journey token slows down the rate at which its effects change, but I'm not sure it does enough.

That said, the Journey token is a nice way to stabilize the card overall.  It's slower to swap out the starting tokens with stronger ones, but you also get more time with your ideal version before you have to change it to something weaker.  There's also combo potential with the official Journey token cards, since those cards almost always prefer having the token face up, whereas this sometimes does not.

Lots to think about with this one.  Interesting.

Quote
Elven Palace
Type: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
For the rest of the game, at the end of your buy phase, you may trash a card from your hand.
(This card stays in play.)

I think I'd like it better if cost $6 and happened at the start of your turn.  As it is, this seems so, so powerful.  You will easily trash your starting junk, and you will pretty easily clear out Curses and Ruins too. 

I do wonder if I am overrating it.  Thinking on it further, it may be like Trading Post in that it's a great buy on the first shuffle but much worse after that.  The trashing is slower than Chapel at least, but probably faster than Steward if you are able to buy it early.

Whatever its actual power level, I'm not sure if this will be interesting to play.  The main decision is in how many you buy.  I can imagine how that may be a tough call with Hireling, but it seems a lot easier here.  One early if possible, maybe a second against junkers.  Beyond that, it's probably not worth it.  There's only so much stuff to trash before you're as trim as can be.  I'm not really a fan of this one.

Quote
Enchanted Broom
Types: Action - Duration
Cost: $2
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: Trash a card from your hand.

When you gain this, put it on top of your deck.

Hm, OK, this solves some of my supposed problems with Elven Palace.  Like Chapel, you can always open with it.  It happens at the start of your turn, which weakens it.

But the trashing is mandatory.  That is a huge nerf and sounds like a terrible idea, at least at first.  If the Kingdom has no way to gain multiple cards in a turn (+1 buy, gainers, junkers) or Fortress, Enchanted Broom prevents your deck from ever getting bigger once it goes in play.  That could make greening a nightmare unless you're willing to mill Provinces.

Since it topdecks itself on gain, you have a lot of flexibility in when to activate this effect.  Given that it's mandatory trashing, I expect that you actually won't want it on the first turn most of the time.  I have no idea when you would.

Overall, I think this is actually really interesting, mostly because it's mandatory.  With that restriction, it may be better to have the trashing at the end of the turn after all.  You're (probably) only ever going to buy it once in a game, but I expect it would be really tough to decide if and when.  I worry that it may be too niche at best or actually unplayable at worst, but I still find this strangely compelling.

Quote
Engineer
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+Buy
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up); then if it's face up, you may move your Trashing token and your -$2 token to an Action Supply pile.

Clarification: The Trashing token and the -$2 token must be moved to the same Action Supply pile.

Another card where you'll probably only buy one (unless you desperately need +buys).  You'll usually want it specifically for the second time you play it, to move the tokens to a given pile.  It'll typically be a huge buff to that one chosen pile -- cheaper cost and free trashing is amazing, and the tokens synergize in that it's easier to leave Copper in hand to trash when the card is cheaper to buy.  It's worth noting that the Trashing token is never a drawback because its effect is optional.

Sometimes you may play Engineer again in order to move the tokens elsewhere.  And sometimes you may play it solely to manipulate the Journey token and set up one of the official Journey token cards.

I don't think this is bad, but it doesn't really appeal to me.

Quote
Foundry
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $4. Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you gain a card, you may call this, to put the gained card either into your hand or on top of your deck.

A single one is just an expensive Workshop, which is already underwhelming at $3.  But if you play a second one, you can gain the card on top of your deck or straight to your hand.  As a Reserve effect, you can also combo it with other gainers.

The gain-to-hand is the most interesting thing here.  I have some concern that this may be too powerful, but it's tough to judge.

The interaction with Throne Room (also KC and Procession) is confusing to me.  TR-Foundry, gain a card (to discard), put Foundry on Reserve.  Play (phantom) Foundry again, gain a card and call the same Foundry... put Foundry back in the Reserve?  Or not?  I'm leaning towards not, but I'm unsure.  Depending on how that shakes out, there might be a simple combo that immediately empties piles.

I think this is a decently intriguing Workshop variant, but still too similar to Armory for my taste.

Quote
Harlequin
Types: Action - Attack
Cost: $5
Each other player flips their reserve token face up
Flip your reserve token over (It starts face up)
If it's face up
+5$ and each other player discards down to 3 cards in his hand

I assume that this was meant to use the Journey token.

I think flipping opponents' Journey tokens could be a good basis for a card, but I don't think it works well here.

If only one player goes for Harlequin and there aren't other Journey token cards/events on the board, flipping the opponents' token is pointless.

If multiple players go for Harlequin, it seems likely that the token will just get reset over and over again and nobody will ever get the big bonus.  It may work better if you are able to play multiple in one turn though.  Still seems too likely to do nothing though.

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Innkeeper
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card, +1 Action.
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up).  If it is face up, +1 Card, +1 Action.

Interesting way of nerfing Lost City.  I find it tough to judge power here, but my intuition is that it's still really strong.  Other than that, not much to say.  You'll want it when you want +actions and you'll want to play it often.  Seems straightforward.

Quote
Junk Collector
Types: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
Now and at the start of your next turn:
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Curse, Ruins, Shelter and Victory cards into your hand. Put one of the other cards on top of your deck and discard the rest.
For each discarded Action card: +1 Action
For each discarded Treasure card: + $1

Worth 1 VP per 5 cards divided by the number of players in the trash (rounded down).

Clarification: If you reveal 3 Curses, Ruins, Shelters and Victory cards you cannot topdeck or discard any card. If you reveal 2 dead/bad cards you topdeck one card and discard none. If there are e.g. 29 cards in the trash in a 3P game you divide 29 by 5 and 3 and round it down which yields 1.

Note: Since it's worth VP, it should have the Victory type as well.  The VP condition is poorly worded, but that can be fixed later.  The clarification is enough for now.

The theme is fairly strong - the collector keeps junk in hand and is worth VP for stuff in the trash (usually more junk).

It starts off with Scout-like draw.  If the draw fails, you get a mini-Tribute effect.  Overall, this seems really weak.  The ideal case might be just clearing out a bunch of junk from the top of your deck.  If it finds no junk, you either get Necropolis, Copper or terminal Silver depending on what you discard, which is underwhelming.  Discarding actions for +actions could actually feel bad unless the deck is just chock full of action cards.

Ah, but it's a Duration.  The second turn play is far more powerful since it doesn't reduce handsize or cost an action.  That might be enough to account for the $5 cost.

I don't think the conditional VP is doing much for the card.  Since Junk Collector doesn't trash, it's sometimes just a useless effect.  That's not a deal breaker in itself (see: Moat, Fortress), but it's questionable on a card that already has so much text.  What about when trashing is available? If every player in the game clears out their starting junk, the card is worth 2VP.  If they don't, it's only worth 1VP or even none.  TfB could increase the value above 2, but I think it would be rare since TfB on its own is unlikely to clear out all starting cards.  Junkers could increase it too, but that depends on all the players cleaning up well, which is a tall order.  I just don't see the VP mattering all that much.  I would drop it entirely.

I think there are some interesting ideas here and good potential.  Duration super-Scout?  Duration self-Tribute?  They both sound like fun ways to fix up old concepts that are too weak.  But smooshed together, I think this card is trying to do too much.  Streamlining it could result in 2-3 elegant cards that stand on their own.

Quote
Paladin
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $5
Choose two: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1. (Choices may be the same)
You may reveal a province from your hand. If you do, place your +card, +action, +coin, or +buy token on the Paladin supply pile.

When you gain a curse or ruins, you may reveal this. If you do, trash the gained card.

Tournament is considered by many to be unfun for being too swingy.  I'm not sure how this compares.  Tournament offers an extra vanilla bonus but Paladin is more flexible.  I think Tournament would be better early on, but the flexibility and unblockability of Paladin makes it better later.  Factoring in the Province reward, I think Paladin's token stacking will usually be more powerful than Tournament prizes.  Tournament prizes are unique while the tokens are available to all players, so that may remove some of the swinginess.  That said, I think Paladin may still end up being a  "win more" kind of card.

The reaction seems superfluous.  If the reaction isn't doing something new, I'd like it to be related to the main action at least.  My guess is that this was added to tie into the Paladin theme, but it's not like the name is tied closely to the action.

Overall I feel rather neutral about it.

Quote
Recruit
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Put this on your tavern mat.

At the start of your turn, you may call this, to turn your journey token over (it starts face up); and if it's face up, for the rest of the turn, whenever you play an action, you first get +1 card.

I feel like the wording could be cleaned up some.  So, this combines the Tavern mat and the Journey token to implement an effect that is extra slow to kick in.  That's interesting.

The first time you play it, you're pretty much certain to call it immediately.  Because of that, I think it may be cleaner to put the Journey token check with the on play effect (If the token is face up, put this on your Tavern mat).  This would make it easier to play though, especially combined with Throne Room.  Not sure if that's good or bad.

The effect itself... I'm not sure about it.  It's a powerful buff to all action cards, but I'm not sure if it's strong enough to be worth the slowness.  It's slow enough that I don't think it would be worth trying to set up and call more than once a game.  To that end, my guess is that it'll be strongly geared for mega turn strategies, specifically needing ways to play multiple gainers or +Buys in one turn.  You may buy multiples and not call any until you have a viable starting hand to kick into a game-ending win.

Seems niche to me, but could be interesting on the right board.

Quote
Research Assistant
Type: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the beginning of your Buy phase, you may call this. If you do, discard two cards.

Note: I think the Reserve effect should be phrased to match existing Reserve cards ("you may call this, to discard 2 cards").

I think this is fine, but not particularly interesting.  It would be an excellent addition for a full set, but it's too vanilla for a Treasure Chest slot IMO.

Quote
Scholar
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1

When you gain this, if you have no token of yours on the Scholar pile, move your +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, or +$1 token to the Scholar pile. (when you play a Scholar you first get that bonus)

The possibilities are Lab with coin, Bazaar, Market, or activated Conspirator.  I'd expect Lab+ to be best most of the time, though the others could be tempting sometimes.  Sounds alright to me.

That said, I expect that the choice of token will often be obvious for a given board.  Despite the use of tokens, I imagine it will be a very vanilla card that doesn't change the game much since all those vanilla possibilities already exist (or close enough).

Quote
Sunken City
Types: Action Duration
Cost: $2
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn: Reveal the top card of your deck. If it is an action card, play it. Otherwise, discard it.

Duration Herald.  Sounds strong, but it's weaker than Herald on play (no +1 card) and also slightly weaker than Herald on the second play (limited to start of turn).  It discards non-actions though, which is usually a plus over Herald.

Not sure if its cost is appropriate, but it sounds fine.  I think it would fit way better in Seaside though.

Quote
Tinkerer
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to $4.
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the start of your Buy phase, you may call this, to trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.

I guess I'm just not that interested in Workshop variants (of which there are several in this contest), unless it's really important to the card concept.  I'm not really feeling that here.  The play and the reserve effects are somewhat related but I don't feel like they are essential to each other.






Some of this was written late last night, so there may be some misinterpretations of cards.  Hopefully not though. :P
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2016, 05:33:25 pm »
+4

Submit your votes to me via this forum's messaging system. To vote, give each card a score from 0 to 10. (It is recommended, but not required, that you give at least one card a 0 and at least one card a 10, to maximize your voting input.) The winner will be the card with the highest sum. Feel free to discuss the cards (but not your scores) in this thread.

I defended this voting system for the Alchemy runoff, but I'd prefer a forum poll here with approval voting (maybe max 3 choices?  whatever LF did before was good).  There are enough cards that using the scoring method will be difficult, and tallying the votes will be very prone to human error especially since you will also be receiving submissions for the Base Set contest at the same time.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2016, 06:11:27 pm »
+1

Submit your votes to me via this forum's messaging system. To vote, give each card a score from 0 to 10. (It is recommended, but not required, that you give at least one card a 0 and at least one card a 10, to maximize your voting input.) The winner will be the card with the highest sum. Feel free to discuss the cards (but not your scores) in this thread.

I defended this voting system for the Alchemy runoff, but I'd prefer a forum poll here with approval voting (maybe max 3 choices?  whatever LF did before was good).  There are enough cards that using the scoring method will be difficult, and tallying the votes will be very prone to human error especially since you will also be receiving submissions for the Base Set contest at the same time.

I think if we do this, there should not be a maximum number of choices, because of the potential for votes getting split between similar options.  For example, Enchanted Broom and Elven Palace are very similar, and I think I would like to either vote for both of them, but if there's a max number that you can vote on, I'd probably vote for neither, because I wouldn't want to use up two votes on them, and I'd expect other people to feel the same, and I don't want to vote only one of them because if everyone who wanted to vote both of them did that, they'd probably both lose.  So with a limited number of votes I think I would rather just not spend any votes on cards that are too similar to each other.

Also, I think the OP stated that the card order would be randomized, but unless there was some crazy coincidence, it looks like they're alphabetized by name.  I think in the future that should be avoided because there may be some psychological benefit to having people see your card first or something, and people shouldn't be able to influence where in the list their card ends up.

Speaking of people perceiving the first card as better, I actually think Blueprint is my favorite card here.  I'm not sure exactly how it will play, but 1. it's cool that moving the trashing token is an on-play effect, because it makes it possible to trash more than 10 cards without spending extra money to move it, and 2. it's a really clever way of putting that reserve effect (which is by itself pretty cool) on a card that guarantees trashing will be possible in the kingdom.  In particular, I like that it does that in a way that is not self-synergizing (it still encourages you to buy cards from some other pile usually).
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ConMan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2016, 06:39:37 pm »
+2

First, thanks to mith for running this, and thanks to all the entrants for showing that there's still plenty to be explored. I've skimmed the thread but otherwise the comments are my own, and will almost certainly get the power of cards completely wrong.

Quote
Blueprint
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
You may move your Trashing token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may trash a card from your hand.)
Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you trash a card, you may call this, to gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.
I really like the idea of this, and the fact that it enables itself in a fairly obvious way. What I don't like, however, is the fact that once you have about 3-4 of these on your Reserve mat you have a ridiculous amount of pile control. Trash a single Blueprint to gain half the Duchy pile? That's pretty powerful.

Quote
Boathand
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $3
+2 Actions
Put this card on your tavern mat.

Directly after resolving an action, if it's still in play, you may call this to draw up to 5 cards in hand.
This feels pretty strong. Maybe not all the time, but the fact that you can kickstart your engine and then refill your hand as necessary seems a little too much for $3. But I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Quote
Borough
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card. +1 Action. Look at the top card of your deck; discard it or put it back. You may take your -1 Card token. If you do, +1 Action.
This is quite cute. A little bit like Hamlet, but not so much that you couldn't have a use for both.

Quote
Circus
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card, +1 Action
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, swap one of your tokens on the Circus pile.

At the start of the game, each player puts his -$2 and +1 Buy tokens on this pile.

Clarification: swapping means to remove one of your tokens from the pile and replace it with a different one. Valid tokens are those that go on the Action Supply piles, i.e. the vanilla bonus tokens, the trashing token and the -$2 token.
Um ... ok? It's a cute idea, but the thought of actually playing it for real makes my head spin. Which is probably the idea.

Quote
Elven Palace
Type: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
For the rest of the game, at the end of your buy phase, you may trash a card from your hand.
(This card stays in play.)
Simple is good, and this is pretty simple. Perhaps costing it at $5 is a nice consolation for the guy who opens 5/2 with no decent $2 on the board, but otherwise I think this might need to be pushed to $6, maybe?

Quote
Enchanted Broom
Types: Action - Duration
Cost: $2
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: Trash a card from your hand.

When you gain this, put it on top of your deck.
So, almost the same card, except that (1) it works at start of turn, (2) the trashing is mandatory, and (3) it gains to top of deck (and hence typically your next turn). Does that warrant the price difference? I suppose it's a little like Chapel, in that it actually needs to be ubiquitously available to be fair and hence the lower price point is actually the right one for it. Mandatory start-of-turn trashing is a pretty risky move if you don't have at least a little control over what's in your next hand (so I suppose you can, if you want, spend a spare $2 just to grab another one of these as fodder for your one in play, when you may suspect your next hand will be too valuable to risk), but while it might actually be more balanced than Elven Palace I don't think I'd rather play with it.

Quote
Engineer
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+Buy
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up); then if it's face up, you may move your Trashing token and your -$2 token to an Action Supply pile.

Clarification: The Trashing token and the -$2 token must be moved to the same Action Supply pile.
Seems ok, for the most part. Probably pretty nice for situations where all the good engine parts are expensive enough to slow the game down.

Quote
Foundry
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $4. Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you gain a card, you may call this, to put the gained card either into your hand or on top of your deck.
So, a Workshop/Armory variant. Can be used as a normal Workshop then top-deck your buy, I guess. It's ... probably fine?

Quote
Harlequin
Types: Action - Attack
Cost: $5
Each other player flips their reserve token face up
Flip your reserve token over (It starts face up)
If it's face up
+5$ and each other player discards down to 3 cards in his hand
I feel like this one is a big no, because it just becomes a race to see who can play theirs twice in a row. I think it would actually be a little more fun if it made every other player flip their Journey (not reserve) token over, although then probably no-one would want to be the first to play it.

Quote
Innkeeper
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card, +1 Action.
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up).  If it is face up, +1 Card, +1 Action.
Cute. Maybe a little bit on the strong side, especially with other Journey token-using cards available.

Quote
Junk Collector
Types: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
Now and at the start of your next turn:
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Curse, Ruins, Shelter and Victory cards into your hand. Put one of the other cards on top of your deck and discard the rest.
For each discarded Action card: +1 Action
For each discarded Treasure card: + $1

Worth 1 VP per 5 cards divided by the number of players in the trash (rounded down).

Clarification: If you reveal 3 Curses, Ruins, Shelters and Victory cards you cannot topdeck or discard any card. If you reveal 2 dead/bad cards you topdeck one card and discard none. If there are e.g. 29 cards in the trash in a 3P game you divide 29 by 5 and 3 and round it down which yields 1.
Way too much going on. The top is trying to be a Scout crossed with a Vagrant crossed with an Ironworks but with a Duration, and the bottom is trying to make the old "worth VP based on the trash" idea work. And the two don't really have any interaction with each other, either. :/

Quote
Paladin
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $5
Choose two: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1. (Choices may be the same)
You may reveal a province from your hand. If you do, place your +card, +action, +coin, or +buy token on the Paladin supply pile.

When you gain a curse or ruins, you may reveal this. If you do, trash the gained card.
I think that just revealing a Province makes it too easy to super-power the card. Maybe if you had to discard the Province, like with Tournament? Or if there were a way to block it, again like Tournament? Also, so many decisions to make.

The Reaction part is ok, although does it really just have to react to gaining Curses and Ruins? I understand thematically, but it doesn't get that powerful if you just let it react to any gain like Watchtower.

Quote
Recruit
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Put this on your tavern mat.

At the start of your turn, you may call this, to turn your journey token over (it starts face up); and if it's face up, for the rest of the turn, whenever you play an action, you first get +1 card.
This one seems pretty neat. I think it might be a bit on the strong side, but maybe the slowness makes up for it.

Quote
Research Assistant
Type: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the beginning of your Buy phase, you may call this. If you do, discard two cards.
So it's a bit like Wine Merchant in that it's a pretty good card but you have to keep "paying" to get it back from the Tavern. Except, unlike Wine Merchant, you can't just pay once to get everything back. Another way to look at it, I suppose, is a bit like playing a double-Tac deck with lots of virtual coin; you can potentially get much stronger turns as long as you don't need any cards in hand in the Buy phase. I like it, and I think it would be worth testing.

Quote
Scholar
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1

When you gain this, if you have no token of yours on the Scholar pile, move your +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, or +$1 token to the Scholar pile. (when you play a Scholar you first get that bonus)
So essentially you choose what power-up your Peddler gets? That's pretty cool, and probably not quite as powerful as Paladin. Although I suspect the choice will often be fairly obvious (a $6 Market is only interesting if there is seriously no alternative, $6 Lab-with-cash is definitely a nice and maybe too-strong option, $6 Grand Market-without-Buy is also pretty amazing, especially if the +Buy exists elsewhere).

Quote
Sunken City
Types: Action Duration
Cost: $2
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn: Reveal the top card of your deck. If it is an action card, play it. Otherwise, discard it.
Probably too cheap, but a cute way of making a kind-of Duration Throne Room work.

Quote
Tinkerer
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to $4.
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the start of your Buy phase, you may call this, to trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.
Same above-the-line as Foundry, but below-the-line is a call-to-Remodel instead. It's pretty cool, I think.
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ConMan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2016, 06:51:12 pm »
0

I defended this voting system for the Alchemy runoff, but I'd prefer a forum poll here with approval voting (maybe max 3 choices?  whatever LF did before was good).  There are enough cards that using the scoring method will be difficult, and tallying the votes will be very prone to human error especially since you will also be receiving submissions for the Base Set contest at the same time.
Yeah, I'd rather see this as a forum poll with approval voting and private results.
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Graystripe77

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2016, 09:32:45 pm »
0

Going to refrain from voting for a set i havent played, but it was interesting to try my hand.
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trivialknot

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2016, 11:49:45 pm »
+1

Is there a missing card?  mith said there were 18 submitted, but I only count 17.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2016, 12:16:39 am »
0

Is there a missing card?  mith said there were 18 submitted, but I only count 17.

Wow. hard to believe no one noticed that until now.

trivialknot

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2016, 12:34:12 am »
+1

Here are some scattered comments:
Quote
Blueprint
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
You may move your Trashing token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may trash a card from your hand.)
Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you trash a card, you may call this, to gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.
This card confuses me.  My first impression is that it's weak.  Mostly I want to trash estates, which makes this a $3 gainer with Plan attached?  Conman pointed out you can call them in multiples; I guess that's good?  It is not overpowered to gain Duchies with it--Duplicate does the same.

Quote
Elven Palace
Type: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
For the rest of the game, at the end of your buy phase, you may trash a card from your hand.
(This card stays in play.)
I thought this card was too overpowered.  Then I realized, everyone will get a copy, like with Chapel, and isn't that fair?  The pricing just determines when people get the card, how swingy it is, and whether you want multiples.  I think it's a cool chapel variant.  I'd test it at various prices in the $2-6 range.

Quote
Engineer
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+Buy
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up); then if it's face up, you may move your Trashing token and your -$2 token to an Action Supply pile.

Clarification: The Trashing token and the -$2 token must be moved to the same Action Supply pile.
What I like about this card is that it's basically Plan and Ferry together, and yet very different!  Ferry and Plan are events that you open with.  Engineer takes much longer to activate.  It's definitely weaker than either Plan or Ferry, but that's okay, because they're really strong.

Quote
Harlequin
Types: Action - Attack
Cost: $5
Each other player flips their reserve token face up
Flip your reserve token over (It starts face up)
If it's face up
+5$ and each other player discards down to 3 cards in his hand
I do like the interaction mechanic, but I'm disappointed by the ability it's attached to.  It looks too much like Giant, probably weaker.  I fear that no one will ever bother fighting over the reserve tokens.

Quote
Innkeeper
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card, +1 Action.
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up).  If it is face up, +1 Card, +1 Action.
Maybe this is just me, but I strongly feel that Journey Token cards should be no better than a ruins on their first play.  Otherwise, fine.

Quote
Paladin
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $5
Choose two: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1. (Choices may be the same)
You may reveal a province from your hand. If you do, place your +card, +action, +coin, or +buy token on the Paladin supply pile.

When you gain a curse or ruins, you may reveal this. If you do, trash the gained card.
I think this draws comparisons to Tournament, and just doesn't feel exciting next to the idea of getting Prizes.  But if you consider it by itself, it's really more like a City that blows up just for you when you collide it with a Province.  Once you get one collision, they turn into labs, and it will be easy to collide them with Provinces again and again until they're basically grand market labs.

I think the "choose two" mechanic hurts the card, because it makes it play slower.

Quote
Recruit
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Put this on your tavern mat.

At the start of your turn, you may call this, to turn your journey token over (it starts face up); and if it's face up, for the rest of the turn, whenever you play an action, you first get +1 card.
This card looks great because it feels overpowered, but maybe it isn't really.  It turns all your cantrips into labs!  But to do it every turn, you need 4 copies of Recruit, and you need to play two per turn.  If you can pull that off, maybe you deserve Pathfinding on everything.  And if you have 8 copies of Recruit, maybe you deserve double Pathfinding on everything.
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2016, 04:53:58 pm »
0

Submit your votes to me via this forum's messaging system. To vote, give each card a score from 0 to 10. (It is recommended, but not required, that you give at least one card a 0 and at least one card a 10, to maximize your voting input.) The winner will be the card with the highest sum. Feel free to discuss the cards (but not your scores) in this thread.

I defended this voting system for the Alchemy runoff, but I'd prefer a forum poll here with approval voting (maybe max 3 choices?  whatever LF did before was good).  There are enough cards that using the scoring method will be difficult, and tallying the votes will be very prone to human error especially since you will also be receiving submissions for the Base Set contest at the same time.

mith, what do you say?

Also wondering what the voting deadline is, since I'm putting off voting for more discussion...
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2016, 07:27:35 pm »
+1

Is there a missing card?  mith said there were 18 submitted, but I only count 17.

Wow. hard to believe no one noticed that until now.

Only 17; I just miscounted.

Will consider the approval voting request when I get home tonight. Deadline for votes is currently Monday, but I may extend this (either to give more time due to changes, or because I am unavailable).
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2016, 09:25:46 pm »
+2

Is there a missing card?  mith said there were 18 submitted, but I only count 17.

Wow. hard to believe no one noticed that until now.

Only 17; I just miscounted.

Will consider the approval voting request when I get home tonight. Deadline for votes is currently Monday, but I may extend this (either to give more time due to changes, or because I am unavailable).

Let this simple miscount stand as an example of why setting up a forum poll would be better. ;)

It would be easier for you too.  Instead of tallying up a bunch of PMs, you could spend time changing a diaper, wooo!
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2016, 02:08:34 pm »
+2

There's not really anything to miscount with the voting - I copy the votes to a spreadsheet and it does the work for me. (My error with the card count was in not letting my spreadsheet count for me. :P)

Anyway, I think I've decided we will switch to approval voting, with a range voting runoff for the finalists. I will add the poll later today and extend the deadline. I wasn't able to get to this last night, we were at the hospital (false alarm, no baby yet).

(There are two big issues right now with the range voting, apart from the potential for mistakes. One is that I think a lot of people have taken my suggestion of "vote something a 10 and something a 0 to maximize your voting influence" as "vote a small number of things a 10 and everything else a 0"; this doesn't maximize your voting influence in most cases, and is a more significant departure from "honest" votes than not using the full range. The other is that there are so many options that it's a bit overwhelming.)
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