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Author Topic: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Results!)  (Read 10011 times)

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mith

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Results!
View Finalists
View Cards Submitted

This is the first contest for this year's set. This week's challenge: Design a card which would fit well in the Adventures expansion!

Submission Rules

Each participant may submit one card per challenge.
Participation in previous or future challenges is not required to participate in this one.
Submit your card to me via this forum's messaging system. Submissions made after each week's deadline cannot be accepted.
Each card you submit must have a name, a cost, a list of types, and the exact wording that should appear on the card.  Also include a brief description of any special design considerations (e.g., Stash having a unique back), but do NOT include any other information, such as strategic commentary or examples about it would play.
The name you give your card will appear on the ballot. If multiple cards with the same name are submitted, I will differentiate them with letters in a randomly chosen order, e.g. [Card Name] A, [Card Name] B, etc. Cards themselves will likewise be listed in a random order on the ballot.
I will accept revisions to your contest entries provided they are submitted to me before the deadline.  If you submit a revision to an entry you have previously submitted to me, resubmit your revised card(s) in their entirety.
Only submit cards that are your own design.
You may submit cards that have been previously posted here in this forum, including those that have been refined by the community as a whole, provided you can still claim that the central conceit of the card -- and the majority of its final version -- is yours.
A single card might conceivably qualify for multiple challenges within this series. If your card doesn't win the first challenge you submit it to, you may submit it for any and all future challenges (until it wins), provided the card fits those challenges. This is particularly pertinent for cards that don't win the first of two slots for a large expansion, although depending on which card does win, your card may not qualify for the second challenge.
Do not disclose your submissions publicly, either in this thread or elsewhere!

Except where specified, you may not submit cards combine certain mechanics from multiple expansions. The idea is that you could simply slot the cards into their respective sets without needing components or rules specific to another set. Specifically:

Duration cards may only be submitted as candidates for a Seaside or Adventures slot.
Potion-cost cards may only be submitted as candidates for the Alchemy slot.
Cards that use VP tokens or cost $7 or more may only be submitted as candidates for a Prosperity slot.
Cards that use Coin tokens and cards that use overpay may only be submitted as candidates for the Guilds slot.
Cards that use Ruins (Looters) and cards that use Spoils may only be submitted as candidates for a Dark Ages slot.
Traveller cards, Reserve cards, and cards making use of player Tokens may only be submitted as candidates for an Adventures slot.

Many mechanics are fair game for any submission. The following is an incomplete list.

Victory/Action and Victory/Treasure hybrid cards.
Cards that allow you to choose an ability from a list.
Cards with on-buy, would-gain, on-gain, and on-trash abilities.



Challenge #1: Adventures

Design a Kingdom card that would fit into the Adventures expansion. Such a card could have one or more of the following qualities:

Interacts with player Tokens (possibly including new Tokens).
Stays in play for future turns or permanently (Durations).
Interacts with the Tavern mat (Reserves).

Do not submit Events or Travellers for this challenge. There will be separate challenges for those.

Submissions are due by the end of Monday, 2016-01-11.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2016, 11:51:00 am by mith »
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2016, 05:14:33 pm »
+1

Cards that use VP tokens or cost $7 or more may only be submitted as candidates for a Prosperity slot.

I don't think $7+ cost needs to be a Prosperity only thing.  A higher cost doesn't make it harder to slot into a set.  You don't need to own Prosperity to use an expensive card.  I mean, on-trash effects are as much a Dark Ages-only thing but you still list that as fair game for any submission.

Do not submit Events or Travellers for this challenge. There will be separate challenges for those.

This isn't really relevant yet, but I actually don't think a Traveller line would be a good idea.  It's so much harder to judge balance, and is there even room for it in the set?
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Asper

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2016, 06:00:27 pm »
0

Cards that use VP tokens or cost $7 or more may only be submitted as candidates for a Prosperity slot.

I don't think $7+ cost needs to be a Prosperity only thing.  A higher cost doesn't make it harder to slot into a set.  You don't need to own Prosperity to use an expensive card.  I mean, on-trash effects are as much a Dark Ages-only thing but you still list that as fair game for any submission.

Do not submit Events or Travellers for this challenge. There will be separate challenges for those.

This isn't really relevant yet, but I actually don't think a Traveller line would be a good idea.  It's so much harder to judge balance, and is there even room for it in the set?

I know LastFootnote thought about whether the cards would fit in a set when he organized the last contest, but i don't necessarily think they have to. I do agree that a Traveller line is a lot harder to judge than a single card, though.

Personally, i see a cost of $7+ as something that fits very well in Prosperity, and probably should be there if there's no strong reason to put it elsewhere. There is, however, a non-Prosperity card costing $8, and several events costing $7+, so it's not exactly strict. I agree on-trash should only be on a Dark Ages card, honestly.

eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2016, 06:30:22 pm »
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I'm for relaxing the restrictions, actually.  I think it's OK for on-trash to be on non-DA cards, and it's OK for $7+ cards to be outside of Prosperity.  The restriction should mainly be for cards that require set-specific components and cards that need significant set-specific rules explanations (which pretty much means new types like Duration, Reserve and Traveller).  If you're for restricting on-trash to DA, would you also want to restrict on-gain/buy to Hinterlands?
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2016, 06:38:33 pm »
0

I'm for relaxing the restrictions, actually.  I think it's OK for on-trash to be on non-DA cards, and it's OK for $7+ cards to be outside of Prosperity.  The restriction should mainly be for cards that require set-specific components and cards that need significant set-specific rules explanations (which pretty much means new types like Duration, Reserve and Traveller).  If you're for restricting on-trash to DA, would you also want to restrict on-gain/buy to Hinterlands?

I think I would like that, actually. If one looks at the sets, I think there are quite a few cards that really feel like they could only come from that expansions. I think in a Treasure Chest one should aim to have cards like this for each expansion (if possible)

Also this hasn't been discussed yet: What about a contest for the Base set aswell? I would love to see some creative, yet simple cards in a contest. It's definitely one of the trickier ones to create properly.
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Asper

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2016, 06:48:27 pm »
0

I'm for relaxing the restrictions, actually.  I think it's OK for on-trash to be on non-DA cards, and it's OK for $7+ cards to be outside of Prosperity.  The restriction should mainly be for cards that require set-specific components and cards that need significant set-specific rules explanations (which pretty much means new types like Duration, Reserve and Traveller).  If you're for restricting on-trash to DA, would you also want to restrict on-gain/buy to Hinterlands?

No, because those are not Hinterlands-exclusives. I guess i don't want to actually restrict $7+ cards to Prosperity, but i'd say it's something i'll question on a non-Prosperity card and i'd possibly vote it lower because of that. On-trash only appears in Dark Ages, so i'd say it only belongs there.

If you have a card that doesn't need an on-trash to be interesting, put it where it belongs and leave that part out, and if the on-trash is integral part of the card (which i think is the case for only half of the official on-trash cards, even), do you really have to add another mechanic like Duration or coin tokens? Sure, trashing for coin tokens sounds like something interesting, and i guess so does a Potion-cost card that does something when trashed. But, so do overpaying for VP tokens, so do Duration-Ruins, so do Potion-cost Reserves... Heck, Overpay is "pay" like on Storyteller, and "on buy" like on Port*. This doesn't make Masterpiece a suitable Adventures card. You got to draw a line somewhere, because if the contest is "everything goes", it's not a treasure Chest Design contest anymore. mith decided to go with patterns that are present in official expansions, and i think that's fine. I was just agreeing that $7+ cards are not actually reserved to Prosperity with the official cards.

*Donald confirmed it's semantically the same

I'm for relaxing the restrictions, actually.  I think it's OK for on-trash to be on non-DA cards, and it's OK for $7+ cards to be outside of Prosperity.  The restriction should mainly be for cards that require set-specific components and cards that need significant set-specific rules explanations (which pretty much means new types like Duration, Reserve and Traveller).  If you're for restricting on-trash to DA, would you also want to restrict on-gain/buy to Hinterlands?

I think I would like that, actually. If one looks at the sets, I think there are quite a few cards that really feel like they could only come from that expansions. I think in a Treasure Chest one should aim to have cards like this for each expansion (if possible)

Also this hasn't been discussed yet: What about a contest for the Base set aswell? I would love to see some creative, yet simple cards in a contest. It's definitely one of the trickier ones to create properly.

Seconding base set: Can you make a card that's nice, interesting and works WITHOUT fancy mechanics? Now that's a challenge, i think.

mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2016, 06:49:35 pm »
0

The restrictions are largely copied from the previous contest. I'm open to relaxing (or strengthening) them, I suppose.

I do agree that there is as much reason to restrict on-trash to Dark Ages as there is to restrict $7+ to Prosperity (though the only exceptions for the latter are a Promo, which is not part of a set, and Events, which are not kingdom cards). On-gain and on-buy have examples outside of Hinterlands (Death Cart/Lost City, Messenger/Port/[Overpay Cards]), but all the on-trash cards are in Dark Ages.
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2016, 06:50:23 pm »
+1

And a Base Set card is already on the list.
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2016, 06:52:58 pm »
+2

By the way: My wife is due in 11 days, so it is very likely there will be a short delay sometime in the next couple weeks. If I don't immediately post new threads after a deadline, that's probably why.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2016, 06:55:14 pm »
0

And a Base Set card is already on the list.

My bad, my head told me I saw a list where Base was missing, great to see its on there.

Before yet another thread is derailed, let's move back to this contest :)

What do you think makes an Adventurer card feel like it definitely belongs in this set?

Reserve cards and the tokens are obvious, what else comes to mind? Is there a stylistic difference between Adv and Seaside durations? Have you other themes in mind when talking about this set?
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2016, 06:57:56 pm »
+1

No, because those are not Hinterlands-exclusives. I guess i don't want to actually restrict $7+ cards to Prosperity, but i'd say it's something i'll question on a non-Prosperity card and i'd possibly vote it lower because of that. On-trash only appears in Dark Ages, so i'd say it only belongs there.

I don't think on-trash will necessarily be DA-exclusive either.  It is right now, but there's no practical reason why it couldn't be in other sets.

To offer another example -- what do you think of Duration-Attacks, or Durations that stay in play for more than 2 turns?  Should those be Adventures-only, since they don't appear in Seaside?
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2016, 07:03:09 pm »
+1

By the way: My wife is due in 11 days, so it is very likely there will be a short delay sometime in the next couple weeks. If I don't immediately post new threads after a deadline, that's probably why.
Due to have a child?
Congratulations!
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Asper

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2016, 08:06:53 pm »
+1

No, because those are not Hinterlands-exclusives. I guess i don't want to actually restrict $7+ cards to Prosperity, but i'd say it's something i'll question on a non-Prosperity card and i'd possibly vote it lower because of that. On-trash only appears in Dark Ages, so i'd say it only belongs there.

I don't think on-trash will necessarily be DA-exclusive either.  It is right now, but there's no practical reason why it couldn't be in other sets.

To offer another example -- what do you think of Duration-Attacks, or Durations that stay in play for more than 2 turns?  Should those be Adventures-only, since they don't appear in Seaside?

As far as i'm concerned, yes. I think a card suggested for a specific expansion theme should represent that expansion as clean as it can. Seaside has level-1 durations. They all do something on the next turn (unless you did something really out of the ordinary, like playing Tactician or Haven when you get nothing out of it). They also all only have the Duration and Action type. Adventures introduces Durations that stay out longer, might get discarded in regular and good play, attack or give choices. I'd still say that only the examples you brought up should go in an Adventures contest.

That's NOT to say it should be forbidden by the rules to do all that. As i said, there's a line that has to be drawn, and mith is the one to draw it. I'll vote how i think is right, and i guess that gives me enough influence allready. My restrictions don't have to be rules. Edit: In fact, i see why less-restrictive rules might be a little more encouraging to participate. After all, it's still supposed to be fun, isn't it?

Hmm... The more i think about it, my choice for the contest probably wasn't that good. The card could just as well have been in Seaside.

eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2016, 08:16:46 pm »
+1

Hmm, OK.  Agree to disagree then.  I think the Adventures Durations could have fit in Seaside just fine.  At the very least, Dungeon and Gear fit your description of Seaside Durations.

I like your point that relaxing restrictions may encourage participation.  I hadn't even considered that aspect.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2016, 08:36:10 pm »
0

Hmm, OK.  Agree to disagree then.  I think the Adventures Durations could have fit in Seaside just fine.  At the very least, Dungeon and Gear fit your description of Seaside Durations.

I like your point that relaxing restrictions may encourage participation.  I hadn't even considered that aspect.

Gear sometimes gets discarded during cleanup of the turn it's played, even if you had a good, trivial reason to play it. This doesn't happen with any Seaside duration, as those only get discarded if playing them was pointless (and not exactly standard) in the first place. This means you can just remember "until next turn" for them and still play correctly 99% of the time. But maybe it just seems complicated because the rule only matters for weird cases with Seaside, and if it had been the other way around it would not appear as obscure.

Also, congrats on the child.

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2016, 09:07:03 pm »
+1

By the way: My wife is due in 11 days, so it is very likely there will be a short delay sometime in the next couple weeks. If I don't immediately post new threads after a deadline, that's probably why.

Congrats!

Due to have a child?
Congratulations!

I certainly hope she's not due to be born, because, man, there are some serious legal issues there.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2016, 09:14:30 pm »
+1

By the way: My wife is due in 11 days, so it is very likely there will be a short delay sometime in the next couple weeks. If I don't immediately post new threads after a deadline, that's probably why.

Congrats!

Due to have a child?
Congratulations!

I certainly hope she's not due to be born, because, man, there are some serious legal issues there.
Wow. I shouldn't be able to understand that joke.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2016, 01:21:42 am »
+2

I hate to say this because I can't back it up at all, but my intuition says on-trash and $7 costs should be okay for any set, but the other expansion-specific mechanics are not.  I think the reason I feel this way is because I could easily see a $7 cost card or a card with an on-trash effect being by itself in another expansion, like how Mine had an on-gain effect all by itself in Prosperity, whereas I have trouble seeing that happen with something like overpay.  Actually we already sort of have precedence for $7 cost cards outside of Prosperity with Prince.  But, I do think that the on-trash or expensive cost should be an integral part of the design, and I'm less likely to vote for a card that uses mechanics from the "wrong" expansion like that.

Also I think we should never do anything Traveler-related for the contests.  Like, there's no way I am reading 200+ cards for one contest, let alone sorting through them and trying to pick out my favorites.  In addition to the fact that it's an inefficient use of space.  I'd rather have 4 or 5 regular cards than one Traveler line.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2016, 03:38:50 am »
+2

Gear sometimes gets discarded during cleanup of the turn it's played, even if you had a good, trivial reason to play it. This doesn't happen with any Seaside duration, as those only get discarded if playing them was pointless (and not exactly standard) in the first place. This means you can just remember "until next turn" for them and still play correctly 99% of the time. But maybe it just seems complicated because the rule only matters for weird cases with Seaside, and if it had been the other way around it would not appear as obscure.

Eh, I don't think the rule is so obscure.  It was already there in Seaside.  Gear feels simpler to me than Outpost or even Tactician.  I can see why it may be obscure to some people, but I would not want a card like Gear or even Haunted Woods to be rejected from a Seaside treasure chest contest (and note that cards like that were a part of the Seaside contest that already ran, way back before Adventures was a thing).

I hate to say this because I can't back it up at all, but my intuition says on-trash and $7 costs should be okay for any set, but the other expansion-specific mechanics are not.  I think the reason I feel this way is because I could easily see a $7 cost card or a card with an on-trash effect being by itself in another expansion, like how Mine had an on-gain effect all by itself in Prosperity, whereas I have trouble seeing that happen with something like overpay.  Actually we already sort of have precedence for $7 cost cards outside of Prosperity with Prince.  But, I do think that the on-trash or expensive cost should be an integral part of the design, and I'm less likely to vote for a card that uses mechanics from the "wrong" expansion like that.

Which "other mechanics" do you mean?  I think we're in agreement.  My broad generalization for what I think should be set-specific was extra components or new card types.  I realize now that overpay would fall outside of those two rules, but I agree that it should be Guilds-specific.  The card types thing was just shorthand to say that the rulebook devotes a fair amount explaining a novel mechanism, which would include overpay.  But does the DA rulebook have a section specifically to talk about when-trash effects?  When-trash is straightforward though, while overpay actually requires defining a new keyword.

Are there other mechanics to consider?
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2016, 04:17:13 am »
+1

I hate to say this because I can't back it up at all, but my intuition says on-trash and $7 costs should be okay for any set, but the other expansion-specific mechanics are not.  I think the reason I feel this way is because I could easily see a $7 cost card or a card with an on-trash effect being by itself in another expansion, like how Mine had an on-gain effect all by itself in Prosperity, whereas I have trouble seeing that happen with something like overpay.  Actually we already sort of have precedence for $7 cost cards outside of Prosperity with Prince.  But, I do think that the on-trash or expensive cost should be an integral part of the design, and I'm less likely to vote for a card that uses mechanics from the "wrong" expansion like that.

Which "other mechanics" do you mean?  I think we're in agreement.  My broad generalization for what I think should be set-specific was extra components or new card types.  I realize now that overpay would fall outside of those two rules, but I agree that it should be Guilds-specific.  The card types thing was just shorthand to say that the rulebook devotes a fair amount explaining a novel mechanism, which would include overpay.  But does the DA rulebook have a section specifically to talk about when-trash effects?  When-trash is straightforward though, while overpay actually requires defining a new keyword.

Are there other mechanics to consider?

I'm not sure if there are others, I just wanted to make sure my post was general enough.  I think we are in agreement too.  On-trash is okay to include in other expansions because you would know exactly how it works when you read the card, the same reason we were okay with having Mint's on-gain effect before Hinterlands came out.  We could have had on-trash effects before Dark Ages or $7 cards before Prosperity and no one would have been confused.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2016, 07:56:37 am »
+1

I hate to say this because I can't back it up at all, but my intuition says on-trash and $7 costs should be okay for any set, but the other expansion-specific mechanics are not.  I think the reason I feel this way is because I could easily see a $7 cost card or a card with an on-trash effect being by itself in another expansion, like how Mine had an on-gain effect all by itself in Prosperity, whereas I have trouble seeing that happen with something like overpay.  Actually we already sort of have precedence for $7 cost cards outside of Prosperity with Prince.  But, I do think that the on-trash or expensive cost should be an integral part of the design, and I'm less likely to vote for a card that uses mechanics from the "wrong" expansion like that.

Which "other mechanics" do you mean?  I think we're in agreement.  My broad generalization for what I think should be set-specific was extra components or new card types.  I realize now that overpay would fall outside of those two rules, but I agree that it should be Guilds-specific.  The card types thing was just shorthand to say that the rulebook devotes a fair amount explaining a novel mechanism, which would include overpay.  But does the DA rulebook have a section specifically to talk about when-trash effects?  When-trash is straightforward though, while overpay actually requires defining a new keyword.

Are there other mechanics to consider?

I'm not sure if there are others, I just wanted to make sure my post was general enough.  I think we are in agreement too.  On-trash is okay to include in other expansions because you would know exactly how it works when you read the card, the same reason we were okay with having Mint's on-gain effect before Hinterlands came out.  We could have had on-trash effects before Dark Ages or $7 cards before Prosperity and no one would have been confused.

I think your point is valid, but I don't think it makes sense for a treasure chest. It's not a rulebook issue. If you play with a Treasure chest, you'll have to be familiar with every rulebook anyway, since it contains cards from every expansion. The requirements should come from its theme instead, even if that is more restrictive than the original sets are.
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2016, 02:31:46 pm »
0

The intent is that a random person who only owns (for example) Prosperity could mock up the Prosperity card from this Treasure Chest and go on their way.  That's why it's a rulebook issue.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2016, 11:15:25 pm »
0

I'm gonna submit a card even though I haven't played with Adventures yet. Let's see how good my theorycrafting is.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2016, 11:36:52 pm »
0

My card is in, it almost certainly either doesn't play interestingly or has a fatal flaw I didn't notice and is terribroken. Based on that, you should all submit your ideas too because you've got a decent chance of beating me.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2016, 12:08:00 am »
0

I'm gonna read up on my Adventures rule book tonight before bed. Perhaps I will stir up something worthwhile. I do like the idea of more cards that use those Tokens.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2016, 12:02:15 pm »
+1

I submitted a card for this. I feel like making an Adventures card for this contest is difficult because the central theme of Adventures to me seems to be about pushing boundaries and changing up what we are used to. There are lots of different mechanics in Adventures, but they tend to really shake things up.

I feel like it might not be enough to just have a card that incorporates the mechanics of Adventures. You'll probably want to have a card that involves strategic considerations outside of what we're used to from other expansions.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2016, 11:13:55 am »
+2

Last day for submissions and modifications!
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2016, 11:42:36 pm »
+6

We had 17 cards submitted for this round. These have been lightly edited for formatting only.

Quote
Blueprint
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
You may move your Trashing token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may trash a card from your hand.)
Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you trash a card, you may call this, to gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

Quote
Boathand
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $3
+2 Actions
Put this card on your tavern mat.

Directly after resolving an action, if it's still in play, you may call this to draw up to 5 cards in hand.

Quote
Borough
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card. +1 Action. Look at the top card of your deck; discard it or put it back. You may take your -1 Card token. If you do, +1 Action.

Quote
Circus
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card, +1 Action
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, swap one of your tokens on the Circus pile.

At the start of the game, each player puts his -$2 and +1 Buy tokens on this pile.

Clarification: swapping means to remove one of your tokens from the pile and replace it with a different one. Valid tokens are those that go on the Action Supply piles, i.e. the vanilla bonus tokens, the trashing token and the -$2 token.

Quote
Elven Palace
Type: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
For the rest of the game, at the end of your buy phase, you may trash a card from your hand.
(This card stays in play.)

Quote
Enchanted Broom
Types: Action - Duration
Cost: $2
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: Trash a card from your hand.

When you gain this, put it on top of your deck.

Quote
Engineer
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+Buy
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up); then if it's face up, you may move your Trashing token and your -$2 token to an Action Supply pile.

Clarification: The Trashing token and the -$2 token must be moved to the same Action Supply pile.

Quote
Foundry
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $4. Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you gain a card, you may call this, to put the gained card either into your hand or on top of your deck.

Quote
Harlequin
Types: Action - Attack
Cost: $5
Each other player flips their reserve token face up
Flip your reserve token over (It starts face up)
If it's face up
+5$ and each other player discards down to 3 cards in his hand

Quote
Innkeeper
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card, +1 Action.
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up).  If it is face up, +1 Card, +1 Action.

Quote
Junk Collector
Types: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
Now and at the start of your next turn:
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Curse, Ruins, Shelter and Victory cards into your hand. Put one of the other cards on top of your deck and discard the rest.
For each discarded Action card: +1 Action
For each discarded Treasure card: + $1

Worth 1 VP per 5 cards divided by the number of players in the trash (rounded down).

Clarification: If you reveal 3 Curses, Ruins, Shelters and Victory cards you cannot topdeck or discard any card. If you reveal 2 dead/bad cards you topdeck one card and discard none. If there are e.g. 29 cards in the trash in a 3P game you divide 29 by 5 and 3 and round it down which yields 1.

Quote
Paladin
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $5
Choose two: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1. (Choices may be the same)
You may reveal a province from your hand. If you do, place your +card, +action, +coin, or +buy token on the Paladin supply pile.

When you gain a curse or ruins, you may reveal this. If you do, trash the gained card.

Quote
Recruit
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Put this on your tavern mat.

At the start of your turn, you may call this, to turn your journey token over (it starts face up); and if it's face up, for the rest of the turn, whenever you play an action, you first get +1 card.

Quote
Research Assistant
Type: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the beginning of your Buy phase, you may call this. If you do, discard two cards.

Quote
Scholar
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1

When you gain this, if you have no token of yours on the Scholar pile, move your +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, or +$1 token to the Scholar pile. (when you play a Scholar you first get that bonus)

Quote
Sunken City
Types: Action Duration
Cost: $2
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn: Reveal the top card of your deck. If it is an action card, play it. Otherwise, discard it.

Quote
Tinkerer
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to $4.
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the start of your Buy phase, you may call this, to trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.

Submit your votes to me via this forum's messaging system. To vote, give each card a score from 0 to 10. (It is recommended, but not required, that you give at least one card a 0 and at least one card a 10, to maximize your voting input.) The winner will be the card with the highest sum. Feel free to discuss the cards (but not your scores) in this thread.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 07:25:37 pm by mith »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2016, 01:21:46 am »
+1

Quick initial reactions:

-Blueprint: interesting. Like Transmogrify at the end of a turn instead of the beginning.
-Boathand: Interesting take on the draw-to-5 village (like Restored Village & Sanitarium). might be good.
-Borough: meh.
-Circus: I like this use of vanilla bonus tokens, though it probably needs better wording.
-Elven Palace: no.
-Enchanted Broom: nope.
-Engineer: also no.
-Foundry: okay armory variant, but not very interesting to look at. Could be good.
-Harlequin: The concept is interesting (attacking the journey token), but might turn out to be too frustrating (especially on boards where it isn't possible/practical to play a terminal twice in a turn often). At first it seemed overpowered, but after thinking about it, it might not be.
-Junk Collector: convoluted. Could be considerably better with the bottom part dropped and the top part shortened/simplified somehow.
-Paladin: Kinda similar to circus, I like it except that it often will give an advantage to the player who's already ahead (like tournament but not as bad as tournament).
-Recruit: seems weak, and I don't think I like the journey token and reserve mechanics combined.
-Research Assistant: seems an okay drawback for a $4 lab, would need testing to see if it's enough of a drawback though. I like it.
-Scholar: way overpowered.
-Sunken City: a duration herald variant. I like it.
-Tinkerer: meh.  I think it's hard to come up with new & good remodel or workshop variants though after the ones already out there.

EDIT: I missed the "if you have no token of yours on the Scholar pile" part of Scholar, and I missed Innkeeper completely. Were things added to the OP after my post?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 09:09:01 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2016, 02:51:36 am »
+1

Boathand is strictly superior to Production Village and thus too cheap.

Borough is a nice mixture of ideas from Spy and Hamlet. A possible variation would be to put the deck inspection before the card draw but that might make the card too strong.

Circus is a great idea! The first move might be scripted (in most decks, i.e. unless you need the extra buy for Fool's Gold or Peddler or whatever, you will probably keep the card at a cost of 4$ and swap the +1Buy for +1Card to convert the Market Square sans Reaction into a Lab) but then it really becomes interesting as you gotta make tricky choices each and every time. The key decision is obviously when to sawp the cost reduction token.

Elven Palace and Enchanted Broom are bad Hireling variants. The former has limited use as you can only use it to trash Coppers and the latter is on the one hand too cheap for 2$ and on the other hand masochistic in the middlegame and endgame as it will force-trash good cards.

Foundry is (nearly) strictly better than Armory. Probably not the end of the world but having one or two of them on your mat in order to call and thus hand-gain that Gold or Platinum or Grand Market or whatever in the middlegame sounds pretty strong. I like the idea but it has to be playtested.

Harlequin should probably use the Journey token. The token attack thingy sounds like fun.

Innkeeper is probably overpowered. Hell, it could even be overpowered at 4$.

About my own card, Junk Collector, admittedly a bit of a frustrating read. The key idea behind all that text is self-balance: if you draw more dead cards you get less Actions/coins. There is some mild self-synergy (Junk Collector draws itself) and the card is obviously stronger in junking and/or trashing games. You rarely get it over 1VP (had one crazy game with Mercenary as trasher and Asper's Hospital as self-junker in which the card really shone and led to 3VP).

Paladin is fairly weak. You gotta buy it shortly before you green but even then it takes time to build it up. And unlike Tournament you cannot really spam your deck with it (as it is cheaper and, pre-Province, weaker than Tournament).

Recruit sounds interesting.

Scholar is too strong.

Asper's Sunken City is simple and good (and unlike Herald cheap). And hey, you can print it!
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2016, 08:22:00 am »
+2

Boathand is strictly superior to Production Village and thus too cheap.

Just a quick remark: It's not strictly superior, since you need to get another action in play for it. In a lot of cases, it's probably worse than Production village
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2016, 08:43:54 am »
0

I agree Boathand is not strictly better than Production Village or even Village because you can't call it on itself.

I first thought Research Assistant was just a very specific defense against Haunted Woods. It's an interesting idea to have a punishing Reserve, although Wine Merchant goes in a similar direction.

I like that Innkeeper is so simple.

Enchanted Broom seems... dangerous?

Junk Collector counts the players in the trash, that's cool. But no, seriously, i think it's too wordy.

I don't like how in multiplayer games, people might play Harlequin's all the time without anybody getting the bonus. Kind of means that the only way to stop Harlequin is to cripple yourself (by getting yourself a Harlequin), which i think isn't that cool. The more you know: In Germany, Jester is named Harlekin (which means Harlequin, in case you were wondering).

Sunken City (my card) doesn't use an Adventures-specific mechanic and could just as well go to Seaside. If you don't mind that, that's cool, but i think it's fair to point it out.

Calling multiple Recruits seems like a decent way to enable a megaturn.

Also, it's interesting to note how many cards here put tokens on their own piles.

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2016, 08:51:20 am »
0

Boathand is strictly superior to Production Village and thus too cheap.

Just a quick remark: It's not strictly superior, since you need to get another action in play for it. In a lot of cases, it's probably worse than Production village
My mistake, I was confused about the timing and thought that the card is put on the tavern mat and then the stuff beneath the seperating line applies
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tristan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2016, 08:56:52 am »
0

Junk Collector counts the players in the trash, that's cool. But no, seriously, i think it's too wordy.
I don't wanna defend my card but I never got the "wordy" criticism in the first place. Official cards like Scrying Pool and Tournament are also fairly "wordy" and when you first play with them it takes some time to figure out what they mean but afterwards you basically know it (or quickly go over the text to remember it).
Of course one should strive for brevity but if it is not possible to express how a card works with fewer words one has to leave it be. The only other option is then to make a simpler card.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 08:57:57 am by tristan »
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2016, 09:05:37 am »
0

Junk Collector counts the players in the trash, that's cool. But no, seriously, i think it's too wordy.
I don't wanna defend my card but I never got the "wordy" criticism in the first place. Official cards like Scrying Pool and Tournament are also fairly "wordy" and when you first play with them it takes some time to figure out what they mean but afterwards you basically know it (or quickly go over the text to remember it).
Of course one should strive for brevity but if it is not possible to express how a card works with fewer words one has to leave it be. The only other option is then to make a simpler card.

Okay, you are right. My criticism isn't really that it's too wordy, but that i prefer more simple cards.

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2016, 09:19:16 am »
+1

I like Blueprint, looks tricky to play right and is very interesting.

Circus is an okay card, but I don't like having all tokens available just because of one card. The token minigame may also be too distracting for my taste

Elven Palace is a too convenient trasher without being that interesting, in my opinion.

Enchanted Broom sounds brutal. Forced trashing until the end of the game? I probably wouldnt dare to buy this in most of my games

Engineer: while I like the idea, I see no reasons this should be an action instead of an event

I like Foundry. A reserve gainer, that's something new. Altough it is most likely too strong since it can gain actions in hand.

Innkeeper is broken at 3. Its effect is stictly better than Herald's hit. Spamming this card is like hitting 50% of the Heralds but getting to choose the order of playing the drawn cards. Maybe it needs to be slightly better at 4 but it's definitely too good at 3

Why is Junk collector not a VP card? I also think it should self-synergize in some way with their VP

Paladin sounds cool, I don't know why it has the reaction, though. May make it a bit strong.

I'm undecided whether Recruit is broken or balanced.

Question about Research assistant: Can you play treasures before discarding? (Both happen at the beginning, right?) Should probably changed to end of the action phase, otherwise you just call all of them, discarding junk or failing to discard anything.

Scholar is decently versatile but you pay a price for the versatility. This may work out well.

Sunken City, maybe a bit too strong? It's a village when it hits, on the second turn a lost city. On top, it discards the "bad" card otherwise? I think it needs a nerf in some way to be a 2-cost

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2016, 09:36:53 am »
0

Sunken City, maybe a bit too strong? It's a village when it hits, on the second turn a lost city. On top, it discards the "bad" card otherwise? I think it needs a nerf in some way to be a 2-cost

Sunken City is good when it hits, but its also very unreliable. If it doesn't hit, it's a Ruined Village now and a cantrip next turn - just like Herald is a cantrip if it fails. Of course you are right about it discarding non-action cards, too, but you should keep in mind that playing a card from the top of your deck isn't exactly the same as just giving +1 card +1 action. I have often had it happen that Sunken City played a terminal from my deck, when i really would have wanted additional actions to play the cards in my hand.

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2016, 05:08:53 pm »
+1

My personal preference for this contest is for Reserve cards and cards that use Adventures tokens.  Durations are an Adventures thing too, but I think even more complex ones fit just as well for Seaside's treasure chest slots.  I'd like the Adventures card(s) to use mechanisms that are unique to Adventures.

One of these cards is mine.  I'm writing this before reading others' comments.

Quote
Blueprint
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
You may move your Trashing token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may trash a card from your hand.)
Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you trash a card, you may call this, to gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

The card as a whole gives you an optional mini version of Farmland on-gain for one card.  The Reserve effect can also be used to combo with other trashers (be it your own or as a response to trashing attacks).  Then there's the utility of the trashing token itself.  Very interesting.  I think it's too different from anything to judge cost without testing, but $4 seems OK.  Plan is $3 and this is slower, but has additional utility.  I think I'd prefer a version where moving the Trashing token was non-optional when you play it.

Quote
Boathand
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $3
+2 Actions
Put this card on your tavern mat.

Directly after resolving an action, if it's still in play, you may call this to draw up to 5 cards in hand.

It has to draw comparisons to Production Village from the old mini-set design contest (+2 actions, draw up to 5 in hand) which seems to be appropriately priced at $4.  The "if it's still in play" clause means that it can't be called immediately, nor after another Boathand (or any other Reserve) is played. 

I'm not totally sure, but I think that this makes the card much stronger than Production Village when it collides with payload cards (read: non-drawing terminals) since you can maximize the draw, but also much weaker when it doesn't, since it ends up being a wasted Necropolis on play and then the Reserve effect is much less desirable if it's used with no actions remaining.  Ah, but then it's also much stronger overall with non-terminal handsize-decreasers like Warehouse and Oasis, whether they match up or not.  I think $3 will be too cheap for it.

It's interesting, but I'm not sure if making it a Reserve elevates the idea.  I liked Production Village just fine as it was.

Quote
Borough
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card. +1 Action. Look at the top card of your deck; discard it or put it back. You may take your -1 Card token. If you do, +1 Action.

Note: the proper wording is "put your -1 Card token on your deck".

This sounds like a really weak card to me, even for $2.  It might have some use when you're absolutely desperate for actions, but I think that the -1 Card token is going to hurt so much more here than on any of the official cards.  If you're using it in an engine (as is ideal for a village), you're likely to hit yourself with the -1 Card multiple times every turn.

I think the best use cases would be with draw-to-X and as cheap backup in a deck that has other +actions available.  But draw-to-X is rare and just a mitigation of the weakness, and "backup village" is already done way better in Adventures with Coin of the Realm.

Quote
Circus
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card, +1 Action
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, swap one of your tokens on the Circus pile.

At the start of the game, each player puts his -$2 and +1 Buy tokens on this pile.

Clarification: swapping means to remove one of your tokens from the pile and replace it with a different one. Valid tokens are those that go on the Action Supply piles, i.e. the vanilla bonus tokens, the trashing token and the -$2 token.

Note: all the bonus token cards and events have clarifying text on them about the token effects.  With reference to Teacher, this should probably say something like "(when you play a Circus, you first get those bonuses)" at the end.  That said, it may get confusing since the tokens are practically guaranteed to change as the game goes on.  Moreover, adding that line may make the text too long to fit.  It's only a clarifying parenthetical though, so it may be OK to omit.

Another clarification is needed - can you swap with tokens that are on different piles?  I think that would be a neat thing without it being too strong.

I like the general concept.  The starting cost with the -$2 token is interesting, making it an affordable (but still overpriced) card that improves itself later.  It's sort of like a customizable Traveller line that way too.

I think it may be more interesting if it started with the Trashing token instead of the +1 Buy token, but maybe that would make it too strong.  Tracking difficulty is a concern here.  The Journey token slows down the rate at which its effects change, but I'm not sure it does enough.

That said, the Journey token is a nice way to stabilize the card overall.  It's slower to swap out the starting tokens with stronger ones, but you also get more time with your ideal version before you have to change it to something weaker.  There's also combo potential with the official Journey token cards, since those cards almost always prefer having the token face up, whereas this sometimes does not.

Lots to think about with this one.  Interesting.

Quote
Elven Palace
Type: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
For the rest of the game, at the end of your buy phase, you may trash a card from your hand.
(This card stays in play.)

I think I'd like it better if cost $6 and happened at the start of your turn.  As it is, this seems so, so powerful.  You will easily trash your starting junk, and you will pretty easily clear out Curses and Ruins too. 

I do wonder if I am overrating it.  Thinking on it further, it may be like Trading Post in that it's a great buy on the first shuffle but much worse after that.  The trashing is slower than Chapel at least, but probably faster than Steward if you are able to buy it early.

Whatever its actual power level, I'm not sure if this will be interesting to play.  The main decision is in how many you buy.  I can imagine how that may be a tough call with Hireling, but it seems a lot easier here.  One early if possible, maybe a second against junkers.  Beyond that, it's probably not worth it.  There's only so much stuff to trash before you're as trim as can be.  I'm not really a fan of this one.

Quote
Enchanted Broom
Types: Action - Duration
Cost: $2
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: Trash a card from your hand.

When you gain this, put it on top of your deck.

Hm, OK, this solves some of my supposed problems with Elven Palace.  Like Chapel, you can always open with it.  It happens at the start of your turn, which weakens it.

But the trashing is mandatory.  That is a huge nerf and sounds like a terrible idea, at least at first.  If the Kingdom has no way to gain multiple cards in a turn (+1 buy, gainers, junkers) or Fortress, Enchanted Broom prevents your deck from ever getting bigger once it goes in play.  That could make greening a nightmare unless you're willing to mill Provinces.

Since it topdecks itself on gain, you have a lot of flexibility in when to activate this effect.  Given that it's mandatory trashing, I expect that you actually won't want it on the first turn most of the time.  I have no idea when you would.

Overall, I think this is actually really interesting, mostly because it's mandatory.  With that restriction, it may be better to have the trashing at the end of the turn after all.  You're (probably) only ever going to buy it once in a game, but I expect it would be really tough to decide if and when.  I worry that it may be too niche at best or actually unplayable at worst, but I still find this strangely compelling.

Quote
Engineer
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+Buy
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up); then if it's face up, you may move your Trashing token and your -$2 token to an Action Supply pile.

Clarification: The Trashing token and the -$2 token must be moved to the same Action Supply pile.

Another card where you'll probably only buy one (unless you desperately need +buys).  You'll usually want it specifically for the second time you play it, to move the tokens to a given pile.  It'll typically be a huge buff to that one chosen pile -- cheaper cost and free trashing is amazing, and the tokens synergize in that it's easier to leave Copper in hand to trash when the card is cheaper to buy.  It's worth noting that the Trashing token is never a drawback because its effect is optional.

Sometimes you may play Engineer again in order to move the tokens elsewhere.  And sometimes you may play it solely to manipulate the Journey token and set up one of the official Journey token cards.

I don't think this is bad, but it doesn't really appeal to me.

Quote
Foundry
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $4. Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you gain a card, you may call this, to put the gained card either into your hand or on top of your deck.

A single one is just an expensive Workshop, which is already underwhelming at $3.  But if you play a second one, you can gain the card on top of your deck or straight to your hand.  As a Reserve effect, you can also combo it with other gainers.

The gain-to-hand is the most interesting thing here.  I have some concern that this may be too powerful, but it's tough to judge.

The interaction with Throne Room (also KC and Procession) is confusing to me.  TR-Foundry, gain a card (to discard), put Foundry on Reserve.  Play (phantom) Foundry again, gain a card and call the same Foundry... put Foundry back in the Reserve?  Or not?  I'm leaning towards not, but I'm unsure.  Depending on how that shakes out, there might be a simple combo that immediately empties piles.

I think this is a decently intriguing Workshop variant, but still too similar to Armory for my taste.

Quote
Harlequin
Types: Action - Attack
Cost: $5
Each other player flips their reserve token face up
Flip your reserve token over (It starts face up)
If it's face up
+5$ and each other player discards down to 3 cards in his hand

I assume that this was meant to use the Journey token.

I think flipping opponents' Journey tokens could be a good basis for a card, but I don't think it works well here.

If only one player goes for Harlequin and there aren't other Journey token cards/events on the board, flipping the opponents' token is pointless.

If multiple players go for Harlequin, it seems likely that the token will just get reset over and over again and nobody will ever get the big bonus.  It may work better if you are able to play multiple in one turn though.  Still seems too likely to do nothing though.

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Innkeeper
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card, +1 Action.
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up).  If it is face up, +1 Card, +1 Action.

Interesting way of nerfing Lost City.  I find it tough to judge power here, but my intuition is that it's still really strong.  Other than that, not much to say.  You'll want it when you want +actions and you'll want to play it often.  Seems straightforward.

Quote
Junk Collector
Types: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
Now and at the start of your next turn:
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Curse, Ruins, Shelter and Victory cards into your hand. Put one of the other cards on top of your deck and discard the rest.
For each discarded Action card: +1 Action
For each discarded Treasure card: + $1

Worth 1 VP per 5 cards divided by the number of players in the trash (rounded down).

Clarification: If you reveal 3 Curses, Ruins, Shelters and Victory cards you cannot topdeck or discard any card. If you reveal 2 dead/bad cards you topdeck one card and discard none. If there are e.g. 29 cards in the trash in a 3P game you divide 29 by 5 and 3 and round it down which yields 1.

Note: Since it's worth VP, it should have the Victory type as well.  The VP condition is poorly worded, but that can be fixed later.  The clarification is enough for now.

The theme is fairly strong - the collector keeps junk in hand and is worth VP for stuff in the trash (usually more junk).

It starts off with Scout-like draw.  If the draw fails, you get a mini-Tribute effect.  Overall, this seems really weak.  The ideal case might be just clearing out a bunch of junk from the top of your deck.  If it finds no junk, you either get Necropolis, Copper or terminal Silver depending on what you discard, which is underwhelming.  Discarding actions for +actions could actually feel bad unless the deck is just chock full of action cards.

Ah, but it's a Duration.  The second turn play is far more powerful since it doesn't reduce handsize or cost an action.  That might be enough to account for the $5 cost.

I don't think the conditional VP is doing much for the card.  Since Junk Collector doesn't trash, it's sometimes just a useless effect.  That's not a deal breaker in itself (see: Moat, Fortress), but it's questionable on a card that already has so much text.  What about when trashing is available? If every player in the game clears out their starting junk, the card is worth 2VP.  If they don't, it's only worth 1VP or even none.  TfB could increase the value above 2, but I think it would be rare since TfB on its own is unlikely to clear out all starting cards.  Junkers could increase it too, but that depends on all the players cleaning up well, which is a tall order.  I just don't see the VP mattering all that much.  I would drop it entirely.

I think there are some interesting ideas here and good potential.  Duration super-Scout?  Duration self-Tribute?  They both sound like fun ways to fix up old concepts that are too weak.  But smooshed together, I think this card is trying to do too much.  Streamlining it could result in 2-3 elegant cards that stand on their own.

Quote
Paladin
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $5
Choose two: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1. (Choices may be the same)
You may reveal a province from your hand. If you do, place your +card, +action, +coin, or +buy token on the Paladin supply pile.

When you gain a curse or ruins, you may reveal this. If you do, trash the gained card.

Tournament is considered by many to be unfun for being too swingy.  I'm not sure how this compares.  Tournament offers an extra vanilla bonus but Paladin is more flexible.  I think Tournament would be better early on, but the flexibility and unblockability of Paladin makes it better later.  Factoring in the Province reward, I think Paladin's token stacking will usually be more powerful than Tournament prizes.  Tournament prizes are unique while the tokens are available to all players, so that may remove some of the swinginess.  That said, I think Paladin may still end up being a  "win more" kind of card.

The reaction seems superfluous.  If the reaction isn't doing something new, I'd like it to be related to the main action at least.  My guess is that this was added to tie into the Paladin theme, but it's not like the name is tied closely to the action.

Overall I feel rather neutral about it.

Quote
Recruit
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Put this on your tavern mat.

At the start of your turn, you may call this, to turn your journey token over (it starts face up); and if it's face up, for the rest of the turn, whenever you play an action, you first get +1 card.

I feel like the wording could be cleaned up some.  So, this combines the Tavern mat and the Journey token to implement an effect that is extra slow to kick in.  That's interesting.

The first time you play it, you're pretty much certain to call it immediately.  Because of that, I think it may be cleaner to put the Journey token check with the on play effect (If the token is face up, put this on your Tavern mat).  This would make it easier to play though, especially combined with Throne Room.  Not sure if that's good or bad.

The effect itself... I'm not sure about it.  It's a powerful buff to all action cards, but I'm not sure if it's strong enough to be worth the slowness.  It's slow enough that I don't think it would be worth trying to set up and call more than once a game.  To that end, my guess is that it'll be strongly geared for mega turn strategies, specifically needing ways to play multiple gainers or +Buys in one turn.  You may buy multiples and not call any until you have a viable starting hand to kick into a game-ending win.

Seems niche to me, but could be interesting on the right board.

Quote
Research Assistant
Type: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the beginning of your Buy phase, you may call this. If you do, discard two cards.

Note: I think the Reserve effect should be phrased to match existing Reserve cards ("you may call this, to discard 2 cards").

I think this is fine, but not particularly interesting.  It would be an excellent addition for a full set, but it's too vanilla for a Treasure Chest slot IMO.

Quote
Scholar
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1

When you gain this, if you have no token of yours on the Scholar pile, move your +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, or +$1 token to the Scholar pile. (when you play a Scholar you first get that bonus)

The possibilities are Lab with coin, Bazaar, Market, or activated Conspirator.  I'd expect Lab+ to be best most of the time, though the others could be tempting sometimes.  Sounds alright to me.

That said, I expect that the choice of token will often be obvious for a given board.  Despite the use of tokens, I imagine it will be a very vanilla card that doesn't change the game much since all those vanilla possibilities already exist (or close enough).

Quote
Sunken City
Types: Action Duration
Cost: $2
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn: Reveal the top card of your deck. If it is an action card, play it. Otherwise, discard it.

Duration Herald.  Sounds strong, but it's weaker than Herald on play (no +1 card) and also slightly weaker than Herald on the second play (limited to start of turn).  It discards non-actions though, which is usually a plus over Herald.

Not sure if its cost is appropriate, but it sounds fine.  I think it would fit way better in Seaside though.

Quote
Tinkerer
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to $4.
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the start of your Buy phase, you may call this, to trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.

I guess I'm just not that interested in Workshop variants (of which there are several in this contest), unless it's really important to the card concept.  I'm not really feeling that here.  The play and the reserve effects are somewhat related but I don't feel like they are essential to each other.






Some of this was written late last night, so there may be some misinterpretations of cards.  Hopefully not though. :P
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2016, 05:33:25 pm »
+4

Submit your votes to me via this forum's messaging system. To vote, give each card a score from 0 to 10. (It is recommended, but not required, that you give at least one card a 0 and at least one card a 10, to maximize your voting input.) The winner will be the card with the highest sum. Feel free to discuss the cards (but not your scores) in this thread.

I defended this voting system for the Alchemy runoff, but I'd prefer a forum poll here with approval voting (maybe max 3 choices?  whatever LF did before was good).  There are enough cards that using the scoring method will be difficult, and tallying the votes will be very prone to human error especially since you will also be receiving submissions for the Base Set contest at the same time.
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scott_pilgrim

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2016, 06:11:27 pm »
+1

Submit your votes to me via this forum's messaging system. To vote, give each card a score from 0 to 10. (It is recommended, but not required, that you give at least one card a 0 and at least one card a 10, to maximize your voting input.) The winner will be the card with the highest sum. Feel free to discuss the cards (but not your scores) in this thread.

I defended this voting system for the Alchemy runoff, but I'd prefer a forum poll here with approval voting (maybe max 3 choices?  whatever LF did before was good).  There are enough cards that using the scoring method will be difficult, and tallying the votes will be very prone to human error especially since you will also be receiving submissions for the Base Set contest at the same time.

I think if we do this, there should not be a maximum number of choices, because of the potential for votes getting split between similar options.  For example, Enchanted Broom and Elven Palace are very similar, and I think I would like to either vote for both of them, but if there's a max number that you can vote on, I'd probably vote for neither, because I wouldn't want to use up two votes on them, and I'd expect other people to feel the same, and I don't want to vote only one of them because if everyone who wanted to vote both of them did that, they'd probably both lose.  So with a limited number of votes I think I would rather just not spend any votes on cards that are too similar to each other.

Also, I think the OP stated that the card order would be randomized, but unless there was some crazy coincidence, it looks like they're alphabetized by name.  I think in the future that should be avoided because there may be some psychological benefit to having people see your card first or something, and people shouldn't be able to influence where in the list their card ends up.

Speaking of people perceiving the first card as better, I actually think Blueprint is my favorite card here.  I'm not sure exactly how it will play, but 1. it's cool that moving the trashing token is an on-play effect, because it makes it possible to trash more than 10 cards without spending extra money to move it, and 2. it's a really clever way of putting that reserve effect (which is by itself pretty cool) on a card that guarantees trashing will be possible in the kingdom.  In particular, I like that it does that in a way that is not self-synergizing (it still encourages you to buy cards from some other pile usually).
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ConMan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2016, 06:39:37 pm »
+2

First, thanks to mith for running this, and thanks to all the entrants for showing that there's still plenty to be explored. I've skimmed the thread but otherwise the comments are my own, and will almost certainly get the power of cards completely wrong.

Quote
Blueprint
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
You may move your Trashing token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may trash a card from your hand.)
Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you trash a card, you may call this, to gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.
I really like the idea of this, and the fact that it enables itself in a fairly obvious way. What I don't like, however, is the fact that once you have about 3-4 of these on your Reserve mat you have a ridiculous amount of pile control. Trash a single Blueprint to gain half the Duchy pile? That's pretty powerful.

Quote
Boathand
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $3
+2 Actions
Put this card on your tavern mat.

Directly after resolving an action, if it's still in play, you may call this to draw up to 5 cards in hand.
This feels pretty strong. Maybe not all the time, but the fact that you can kickstart your engine and then refill your hand as necessary seems a little too much for $3. But I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Quote
Borough
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card. +1 Action. Look at the top card of your deck; discard it or put it back. You may take your -1 Card token. If you do, +1 Action.
This is quite cute. A little bit like Hamlet, but not so much that you couldn't have a use for both.

Quote
Circus
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card, +1 Action
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, swap one of your tokens on the Circus pile.

At the start of the game, each player puts his -$2 and +1 Buy tokens on this pile.

Clarification: swapping means to remove one of your tokens from the pile and replace it with a different one. Valid tokens are those that go on the Action Supply piles, i.e. the vanilla bonus tokens, the trashing token and the -$2 token.
Um ... ok? It's a cute idea, but the thought of actually playing it for real makes my head spin. Which is probably the idea.

Quote
Elven Palace
Type: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
For the rest of the game, at the end of your buy phase, you may trash a card from your hand.
(This card stays in play.)
Simple is good, and this is pretty simple. Perhaps costing it at $5 is a nice consolation for the guy who opens 5/2 with no decent $2 on the board, but otherwise I think this might need to be pushed to $6, maybe?

Quote
Enchanted Broom
Types: Action - Duration
Cost: $2
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: Trash a card from your hand.

When you gain this, put it on top of your deck.
So, almost the same card, except that (1) it works at start of turn, (2) the trashing is mandatory, and (3) it gains to top of deck (and hence typically your next turn). Does that warrant the price difference? I suppose it's a little like Chapel, in that it actually needs to be ubiquitously available to be fair and hence the lower price point is actually the right one for it. Mandatory start-of-turn trashing is a pretty risky move if you don't have at least a little control over what's in your next hand (so I suppose you can, if you want, spend a spare $2 just to grab another one of these as fodder for your one in play, when you may suspect your next hand will be too valuable to risk), but while it might actually be more balanced than Elven Palace I don't think I'd rather play with it.

Quote
Engineer
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+Buy
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up); then if it's face up, you may move your Trashing token and your -$2 token to an Action Supply pile.

Clarification: The Trashing token and the -$2 token must be moved to the same Action Supply pile.
Seems ok, for the most part. Probably pretty nice for situations where all the good engine parts are expensive enough to slow the game down.

Quote
Foundry
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $4. Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you gain a card, you may call this, to put the gained card either into your hand or on top of your deck.
So, a Workshop/Armory variant. Can be used as a normal Workshop then top-deck your buy, I guess. It's ... probably fine?

Quote
Harlequin
Types: Action - Attack
Cost: $5
Each other player flips their reserve token face up
Flip your reserve token over (It starts face up)
If it's face up
+5$ and each other player discards down to 3 cards in his hand
I feel like this one is a big no, because it just becomes a race to see who can play theirs twice in a row. I think it would actually be a little more fun if it made every other player flip their Journey (not reserve) token over, although then probably no-one would want to be the first to play it.

Quote
Innkeeper
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card, +1 Action.
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up).  If it is face up, +1 Card, +1 Action.
Cute. Maybe a little bit on the strong side, especially with other Journey token-using cards available.

Quote
Junk Collector
Types: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
Now and at the start of your next turn:
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Curse, Ruins, Shelter and Victory cards into your hand. Put one of the other cards on top of your deck and discard the rest.
For each discarded Action card: +1 Action
For each discarded Treasure card: + $1

Worth 1 VP per 5 cards divided by the number of players in the trash (rounded down).

Clarification: If you reveal 3 Curses, Ruins, Shelters and Victory cards you cannot topdeck or discard any card. If you reveal 2 dead/bad cards you topdeck one card and discard none. If there are e.g. 29 cards in the trash in a 3P game you divide 29 by 5 and 3 and round it down which yields 1.
Way too much going on. The top is trying to be a Scout crossed with a Vagrant crossed with an Ironworks but with a Duration, and the bottom is trying to make the old "worth VP based on the trash" idea work. And the two don't really have any interaction with each other, either. :/

Quote
Paladin
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $5
Choose two: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1. (Choices may be the same)
You may reveal a province from your hand. If you do, place your +card, +action, +coin, or +buy token on the Paladin supply pile.

When you gain a curse or ruins, you may reveal this. If you do, trash the gained card.
I think that just revealing a Province makes it too easy to super-power the card. Maybe if you had to discard the Province, like with Tournament? Or if there were a way to block it, again like Tournament? Also, so many decisions to make.

The Reaction part is ok, although does it really just have to react to gaining Curses and Ruins? I understand thematically, but it doesn't get that powerful if you just let it react to any gain like Watchtower.

Quote
Recruit
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Put this on your tavern mat.

At the start of your turn, you may call this, to turn your journey token over (it starts face up); and if it's face up, for the rest of the turn, whenever you play an action, you first get +1 card.
This one seems pretty neat. I think it might be a bit on the strong side, but maybe the slowness makes up for it.

Quote
Research Assistant
Type: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the beginning of your Buy phase, you may call this. If you do, discard two cards.
So it's a bit like Wine Merchant in that it's a pretty good card but you have to keep "paying" to get it back from the Tavern. Except, unlike Wine Merchant, you can't just pay once to get everything back. Another way to look at it, I suppose, is a bit like playing a double-Tac deck with lots of virtual coin; you can potentially get much stronger turns as long as you don't need any cards in hand in the Buy phase. I like it, and I think it would be worth testing.

Quote
Scholar
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1

When you gain this, if you have no token of yours on the Scholar pile, move your +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, or +$1 token to the Scholar pile. (when you play a Scholar you first get that bonus)
So essentially you choose what power-up your Peddler gets? That's pretty cool, and probably not quite as powerful as Paladin. Although I suspect the choice will often be fairly obvious (a $6 Market is only interesting if there is seriously no alternative, $6 Lab-with-cash is definitely a nice and maybe too-strong option, $6 Grand Market-without-Buy is also pretty amazing, especially if the +Buy exists elsewhere).

Quote
Sunken City
Types: Action Duration
Cost: $2
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn: Reveal the top card of your deck. If it is an action card, play it. Otherwise, discard it.
Probably too cheap, but a cute way of making a kind-of Duration Throne Room work.

Quote
Tinkerer
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to $4.
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the start of your Buy phase, you may call this, to trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.
Same above-the-line as Foundry, but below-the-line is a call-to-Remodel instead. It's pretty cool, I think.
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ConMan

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2016, 06:51:12 pm »
0

I defended this voting system for the Alchemy runoff, but I'd prefer a forum poll here with approval voting (maybe max 3 choices?  whatever LF did before was good).  There are enough cards that using the scoring method will be difficult, and tallying the votes will be very prone to human error especially since you will also be receiving submissions for the Base Set contest at the same time.
Yeah, I'd rather see this as a forum poll with approval voting and private results.
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Graystripe77

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2016, 09:32:45 pm »
0

Going to refrain from voting for a set i havent played, but it was interesting to try my hand.
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trivialknot

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2016, 11:49:45 pm »
+1

Is there a missing card?  mith said there were 18 submitted, but I only count 17.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2016, 12:16:39 am »
0

Is there a missing card?  mith said there were 18 submitted, but I only count 17.

Wow. hard to believe no one noticed that until now.

trivialknot

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2016, 12:34:12 am »
+1

Here are some scattered comments:
Quote
Blueprint
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
You may move your Trashing token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may trash a card from your hand.)
Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you trash a card, you may call this, to gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.
This card confuses me.  My first impression is that it's weak.  Mostly I want to trash estates, which makes this a $3 gainer with Plan attached?  Conman pointed out you can call them in multiples; I guess that's good?  It is not overpowered to gain Duchies with it--Duplicate does the same.

Quote
Elven Palace
Type: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
For the rest of the game, at the end of your buy phase, you may trash a card from your hand.
(This card stays in play.)
I thought this card was too overpowered.  Then I realized, everyone will get a copy, like with Chapel, and isn't that fair?  The pricing just determines when people get the card, how swingy it is, and whether you want multiples.  I think it's a cool chapel variant.  I'd test it at various prices in the $2-6 range.

Quote
Engineer
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+Buy
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up); then if it's face up, you may move your Trashing token and your -$2 token to an Action Supply pile.

Clarification: The Trashing token and the -$2 token must be moved to the same Action Supply pile.
What I like about this card is that it's basically Plan and Ferry together, and yet very different!  Ferry and Plan are events that you open with.  Engineer takes much longer to activate.  It's definitely weaker than either Plan or Ferry, but that's okay, because they're really strong.

Quote
Harlequin
Types: Action - Attack
Cost: $5
Each other player flips their reserve token face up
Flip your reserve token over (It starts face up)
If it's face up
+5$ and each other player discards down to 3 cards in his hand
I do like the interaction mechanic, but I'm disappointed by the ability it's attached to.  It looks too much like Giant, probably weaker.  I fear that no one will ever bother fighting over the reserve tokens.

Quote
Innkeeper
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card, +1 Action.
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up).  If it is face up, +1 Card, +1 Action.
Maybe this is just me, but I strongly feel that Journey Token cards should be no better than a ruins on their first play.  Otherwise, fine.

Quote
Paladin
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $5
Choose two: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1. (Choices may be the same)
You may reveal a province from your hand. If you do, place your +card, +action, +coin, or +buy token on the Paladin supply pile.

When you gain a curse or ruins, you may reveal this. If you do, trash the gained card.
I think this draws comparisons to Tournament, and just doesn't feel exciting next to the idea of getting Prizes.  But if you consider it by itself, it's really more like a City that blows up just for you when you collide it with a Province.  Once you get one collision, they turn into labs, and it will be easy to collide them with Provinces again and again until they're basically grand market labs.

I think the "choose two" mechanic hurts the card, because it makes it play slower.

Quote
Recruit
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Put this on your tavern mat.

At the start of your turn, you may call this, to turn your journey token over (it starts face up); and if it's face up, for the rest of the turn, whenever you play an action, you first get +1 card.
This card looks great because it feels overpowered, but maybe it isn't really.  It turns all your cantrips into labs!  But to do it every turn, you need 4 copies of Recruit, and you need to play two per turn.  If you can pull that off, maybe you deserve Pathfinding on everything.  And if you have 8 copies of Recruit, maybe you deserve double Pathfinding on everything.
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2016, 04:53:58 pm »
0

Submit your votes to me via this forum's messaging system. To vote, give each card a score from 0 to 10. (It is recommended, but not required, that you give at least one card a 0 and at least one card a 10, to maximize your voting input.) The winner will be the card with the highest sum. Feel free to discuss the cards (but not your scores) in this thread.

I defended this voting system for the Alchemy runoff, but I'd prefer a forum poll here with approval voting (maybe max 3 choices?  whatever LF did before was good).  There are enough cards that using the scoring method will be difficult, and tallying the votes will be very prone to human error especially since you will also be receiving submissions for the Base Set contest at the same time.

mith, what do you say?

Also wondering what the voting deadline is, since I'm putting off voting for more discussion...
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2016, 07:27:35 pm »
+1

Is there a missing card?  mith said there were 18 submitted, but I only count 17.

Wow. hard to believe no one noticed that until now.

Only 17; I just miscounted.

Will consider the approval voting request when I get home tonight. Deadline for votes is currently Monday, but I may extend this (either to give more time due to changes, or because I am unavailable).
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2016, 09:25:46 pm »
+2

Is there a missing card?  mith said there were 18 submitted, but I only count 17.

Wow. hard to believe no one noticed that until now.

Only 17; I just miscounted.

Will consider the approval voting request when I get home tonight. Deadline for votes is currently Monday, but I may extend this (either to give more time due to changes, or because I am unavailable).

Let this simple miscount stand as an example of why setting up a forum poll would be better. ;)

It would be easier for you too.  Instead of tallying up a bunch of PMs, you could spend time changing a diaper, wooo!
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2016, 02:08:34 pm »
+2

There's not really anything to miscount with the voting - I copy the votes to a spreadsheet and it does the work for me. (My error with the card count was in not letting my spreadsheet count for me. :P)

Anyway, I think I've decided we will switch to approval voting, with a range voting runoff for the finalists. I will add the poll later today and extend the deadline. I wasn't able to get to this last night, we were at the hospital (false alarm, no baby yet).

(There are two big issues right now with the range voting, apart from the potential for mistakes. One is that I think a lot of people have taken my suggestion of "vote something a 10 and something a 0 to maximize your voting influence" as "vote a small number of things a 10 and everything else a 0"; this doesn't maximize your voting influence in most cases, and is a more significant departure from "honest" votes than not using the full range. The other is that there are so many options that it's a bit overwhelming.)
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2016, 03:33:00 pm »
0

I gotta be honest. I'm not sure what you intend by saying "use the full range from 0-10" without dropping by 5/8th (0.625) between each rating. [10 ratings / 16 divisions]

Unless we do something on the 10/x scale, giving our favorite card a 10 and everything else a 5 or below.
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting Change!)
« Reply #51 on: January 14, 2016, 10:07:57 pm »
+1

New voting rules!

We will select a winner over two rounds. The first round will be approval voting. Vote for as many cards as you like - which cards do you think are good enough to potentially win? The top 5 (plus ties) will advance to round 2, which will be range voting (0-10) as with the runoffs.

Each round will last 7 days.
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #52 on: January 14, 2016, 10:16:55 pm »
0

I gotta be honest. I'm not sure what you intend by saying "use the full range from 0-10" without dropping by 5/8th (0.625) between each rating. [10 ratings / 16 divisions]

Unless we do something on the 10/x scale, giving our favorite card a 10 and everything else a 5 or below.

By use the full range, I simply mean have at least one card as a 0 and at least one card as a 10. In the first runoff, some votes were on a limited range (3-8, say).

Obviously, we have 17 cards and only 11 (integer) voting possibilities, so you will have some ties. And I'm not suggesting you are required (or even encouraged) to give every rating to at least one card. What tends to be happening though is that people are using an extreme form of approval voting (only 0s and 10s), and approval voting is not as expressive as range voting.

Ideally, everyone will give their honest scores for the cards on a scale of 0 to 10 where 0 is their least favorite card and 10 is their favorite. But it's not particularly a problem if people vote strategically (giving lower-than-honest scores to cards that aren't among their favorites but that they perceive as "threats" to win) - it's just that giving only extreme ratings is not actually strategic (you aren't reflecting your true preferences at all among the cards you are rating the same, so it is more likely that you will have no impact on the outcome at all).
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #53 on: January 15, 2016, 08:17:50 am »
0

Just a couple of scattered thoughts (I'm only going to write stuff that I think hasn't been written before):
I like the concept of Enchanted Broom, but I think it's a bad buy as written, since in addition to the mandatory lategame lookout pain you're also going to play the rest of the game with 4 cards in hand. If it gave +1 Card then I think it would be much more interesting, as you'd get "free" thinning economy-wise at the cost of having to plan for a tiptoed late game.

Circus is really cool, I'm not sure that the whole journey token system is worth it (letting optionally swap a token every play would make it much less headache inducing - and maybe break it). As with Scholar, I'm afraid some conformations would simply be much more profitable than others. (4$ Labs, turning into 6$ almost-Lost Cities...)

Paladin looks cool, but I'm afraid it will be even more snowballing than Tournament:
Each Tournament activation gives you only one powerful card, to be used only once per turn. (and this is sort of balanced by Tournament losing effectiveness in the late game) On the other hand, the first Paladin activation turns all your Paladins into Labs, making it much easier to get a second activation and so on. The fact that they do not discard the Province makes it even easier to suddently explode.
Once you've got your Paladins rolling, you win. (+3 Cards, +1 Action, +1 coin, +1 buy, or +1 Card, +1 Action, +3 Coins, +1 Buy). Yes, Paladin doesn't really help you get the Province, but that makes it all the more swingy in my opinion.

I like Research Assistant, it's a sort of after-the-fact sifter, might be too good for 4 but I'd try it for sure.

Edited for readability.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 08:19:03 am by Accatitippi »
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #54 on: January 15, 2016, 01:15:57 pm »
0

I like the concept of Enchanted Broom, but I think it's a bad buy as written, since in addition to the mandatory lategame lookout pain you're also going to play the rest of the game with 4 cards in hand. If it gave +1 Card then I think it would be much more interesting, as you'd get "free" thinning economy-wise at the cost of having to plan for a tiptoed late game.
The problem of a permanent forced trasher is that it is either too good or too bad. With one extra card it is clearly too good, i.e. a forced buy, whereas the current version is at least painful enough during the middle- and endgame that you think twice about buying it. It is good in Goon or self-junking games in general, good in quick games, bad in long games and even worse in long games without extra buys (buying some junk such that the perma-trasher doesn't eliminate your good cards could be an actual option in non-BM games where you probably do not mind it too much if some Silvers are trashed).

I think that the only wortwhile Hireling variants are those with vanilla boni and among those a permanent extra coin is too similar to Treasury so only action and buy remain. Ramos' Haunted Castle was a decent implementation (at a price of 5$, 6 is obviously too expensive) of that.

Back to Enchanted Broom, I just noticed that you topdeck it when you gain it such that you can play it on turn 2/3 instead of 3/4/5. I do not think that this is necessary.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2016, 01:19:39 pm by tristan »
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enfynet

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #55 on: January 15, 2016, 06:46:18 pm »
+1

So I finally managed to sit down and put a couple thoughts out for each card. Hopefully the discussion isn't completely dead yet.
______________________

Quote
Blueprint
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
You may move your Trashing token to an Action Supply pile (when you buy a card from that pile, you may trash a card from your hand.)
Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you trash a card, you may call this, to gain a card costing exactly $1 more than it.

This gives us another use for the Trash token, when the Event is not available. But that Reserve function can do some pretty crazy things with Trashers, Remodelers, One-Shots, and Dark Ages. Any other good uses for an on-trash gainer?

Quote
Boathand
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $3
+2 Actions
Put this card on your tavern mat.

Directly after resolving an action, if it's still in play, you may call this to draw up to 5 cards in hand.

So, the "still in play" prevents stacking these, right? I like the draw-to-5 but I'm not sure if it needs to be a Reserve function.

Quote
Borough
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card. +1 Action. Look at the top card of your deck; discard it or put it back. You may take your -1 Card token. If you do, +1 Action.

Cheap Village, with a minor sifting effect. This could be useful, or could be very weak.

Quote
Circus
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card, +1 Action
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, swap one of your tokens on the Circus pile.

At the start of the game, each player puts his -$2 and +1 Buy tokens on this pile.

Clarification: swapping means to remove one of your tokens from the pile and replace it with a different one. Valid tokens are those that go on the Action Supply piles, i.e. the vanilla bonus tokens, the trashing token and the -$2 token.

So, the Token swap is not optional, right? If you have Tokens on other piles, those would all be affected as well. I would probably leave the -$2 Token on there to buy several of these and turn them into mini-Lab Villages.

Quote
Elven Palace
Type: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
For the rest of the game, at the end of your buy phase, you may trash a card from your hand.
(This card stays in play.)

I'm pretty sure the actual trigger would be the "start of Clean-up" but that's just a detail. This becomes quite strong against junking attacks, especially in multiples.

Quote
Enchanted Broom
Types: Action - Duration
Cost: $2
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: Trash a card from your hand.

When you gain this, put it on top of your deck.

This is trouble. You will play the rest of the game with only 4-card hands? Also, no one would want more than 1 of these.

Quote
Engineer
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+Buy
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up); then if it's face up, you may move your Trashing token and your -$2 token to an Action Supply pile.

Clarification: The Trashing token and the -$2 token must be moved to the same Action Supply pile.

I like the synergy between the +Buy, $-2 token, and Trash token. I think it may be a bit cheap compared to Ferry and Plan though.

Quote
Foundry
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $4. Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you gain a card, you may call this, to put the gained card either into your hand or on top of your deck.

A Workshop variant, but with the Reserve function this seems to be on the slow side. Watchtower seems more useful than this Reserve function.

Quote
Harlequin
Types: Action - Attack
Cost: $5
Each other player flips their [Journey] token face up
Flip your [Journey] token over (It starts face up)
If it's face up
+5$ and each other player discards down to 3 cards in his hand

I think this one would be fine without attacking the other players' Journey token(s).

Quote
Innkeeper
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card, +1 Action.
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up).  If it is face up, +1 Card, +1 Action.

I would buy so many of these that I would start hating the Journey Token. I think there may be a reason the Journey Token cards are terminal.

Quote
Junk Collector
Types: Action - Duration
Cost: $5
Now and at the start of your next turn:
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put the revealed Curse, Ruins, Shelter and Victory cards into your hand. Put one of the other cards on top of your deck and discard the rest.
For each discarded Action card: +1 Action
For each discarded Treasure card: + $1

Worth 1 VP per 5 cards divided by the number of players in the trash (rounded down).

Clarification: If you reveal 3 Curses, Ruins, Shelters and Victory cards you cannot topdeck or discard any card. If you reveal 2 dead/bad cards you topdeck one card and discard none. If there are e.g. 29 cards in the trash in a 3P game you divide 29 by 5 and 3 and round it down which yields 1.

Remove a few steps, and the VP and this card could be a useful Iron-Scout. As it is, though, the complexity does not seem to be worth the trouble. Suggested change: Remove VP, Remove Topdeck, Remove long list of types; Reveal top 3, discard Action/Treasure, put the rest in your hand. Get bonus for discards.

Quote
Paladin
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $5
Choose two: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1. (Choices may be the same)
You may reveal a province from your hand. If you do, place your +card, +action, +coin, or +buy token on the Paladin supply pile.

When you gain a curse or ruins, you may reveal this. If you do, trash the gained card.

There is a whole lot going on here. Get a couple of these and an early Province and you could end up with a Cavalry of +2 Cards +$2 +1 Action +1 Buy running through your deck. The Watchtower reaction seems totally unnecessary.

Quote
Recruit
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Put this on your tavern mat.

At the start of your turn, you may call this, to turn your journey token over (it starts face up); and if it's face up, for the rest of the turn, whenever you play an action, you first get +1 card.

You probably want at least 4 of these, to ensure you keep your Journey Token face up as much as possible.

Quote
Research Assistant
Type: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the beginning of your Buy phase, you may call this. If you do, discard two cards.

Cheap Lab, with a little opportunity cost to pull it off the Tavern Mat. I'm not sure how I'd feel if I ended up with 3 of these waiting to be called, though.

Quote
Scholar
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card
+1 Action
+$1

When you gain this, if you have no token of yours on the Scholar pile, move your +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, or +$1 token to the Scholar pile. (when you play a Scholar you first get that bonus)

It seems like Lab+$1 is the best use for this card. But I like the versatility in cases where you may not have a Village or +Buy around.

Quote
Sunken City
Types: Action Duration
Cost: $2
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn: Reveal the top card of your deck. If it is an action card, play it. Otherwise, discard it.

Duration Herald? I'm not really sure how I feel about this one. Maybe I'm missing something here.

Quote
Tinkerer
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $5
Gain a card costing up to $4.
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the start of your Buy phase, you may call this, to trash a card from your hand and gain a card costing up to $2 more than the trashed card.

We can use this to gain 2 cards in one turn. Workshop + Remodel on one card. I like the simplicity, but don't know if the two parts should be so similar.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #56 on: January 15, 2016, 08:25:30 pm »
0

Quote
Innkeeper
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+1 Card, +1 Action.
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up).  If it is face up, +1 Card, +1 Action.

I would buy so many of these that I would start hating the Journey Token. I think there may be a reason the Journey Token cards are terminal.

It might help to make it like this:
Quote
Innkeeper
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Cards.
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up).  If it is face up, +2 Actions.
Although if you can play two in a turn, it's not going to make a lot of difference.

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2016, 10:39:59 pm »
0

One more day for preliminary voting here!
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #58 on: January 22, 2016, 11:19:22 am »
0

Preliminary Results:

Sunken City - 13
Paladin - 9
Research Assistant - 9
Circus - 8
Foundry - 8

Boathand - 7
Innkeeper - 7
Recruit - 7
Elven Palace - 6
Blueprint - 5
Scholar - 5
Enchanted Bloom - 4
Engineer - 4
Tinkerer - 4
Borough - 2
Junk Collector - 1
Harlequin - 0
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mith

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Voting!)
« Reply #59 on: January 22, 2016, 11:19:58 am »
+1

Quote
Sunken City
Types: Action Duration
Cost: $2
+1 Action
Now and at the start of your next turn: Reveal the top card of your deck. If it is an action card, play it. Otherwise, discard it.

Quote
Research Assistant
Type: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
+2 Cards
+1 Action
Put this on your Tavern mat.

At the beginning of your Buy phase, you may call this. If you do, discard two cards.

Clarification: The intent is that you call it before playing any treasures.  Thus, if you call Research Assistant, you could be forced to discard treasures that you wanted to play.

Quote
Paladin
Types: Action Reaction
Cost: $5
Choose two: +1 Card, +1 Action, +$1. (Choices may be the same)
You may reveal a province from your hand. If you do, place your +card, +action, +coin, or +buy token on the Paladin supply pile.

When you gain a curse or ruins, you may reveal this. If you do, trash the gained card.

Quote
Foundry
Types: Action - Reserve
Cost: $4
Gain a card costing up to $4. Put this on your Tavern mat.

When you gain a card, you may call this, to put the gained card either into your hand or on top of your deck.

Quote
Circus
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card, +1 Action
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, swap one of your tokens on the Circus pile.

At the start of the game, each player puts his -$2 and +1 Buy tokens on this pile.

Clarification: swapping means to remove one of your tokens from the pile and replace it with a different one. Valid tokens are those that go on the Action Supply piles, i.e. the vanilla bonus tokens, the trashing token and the -$2 token.

Submit your votes to me via this forum's messaging system. To vote, give each card a score from 0 to 10. (It is recommended, but not required, that you give at least one card a 0 and at least one card a 10, to maximize your voting input.) The winner will be the card with the highest sum. Feel free to discuss the cards (but not your scores) in this thread.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 11:42:29 pm by mith »
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drsteelhammer

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #60 on: January 22, 2016, 12:00:14 pm »
0

Still waiting for clarification: At the beginning of you buy phase means before playing treasures? Or can I do both at the same time, therefore choosing the order?
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #61 on: January 22, 2016, 12:12:34 pm »
0

That trigger is confusing because it is undefined.
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LastFootnote

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #62 on: January 22, 2016, 12:17:11 pm »
0

Still waiting for clarification: At the beginning of you buy phase means before playing treasures? Or can I do both at the same time, therefore choosing the order?

It's before playing your Treasures. I don't know the author's intent, but that's the way the rules work.
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #63 on: January 22, 2016, 12:21:42 pm »
0

There's no need to delete the poll. :)
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #64 on: January 22, 2016, 01:17:15 pm »
0

The polls take up a lot of vertical space, and distract from finding the finalists. I've saved all the votes to my spreadsheet though.
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #65 on: January 22, 2016, 01:31:13 pm »
+2

The polls take up a lot of vertical space, and distract from finding the finalists. I've saved all the votes to my spreadsheet though.

Start a new thread?  In the future, it will be nice to come back and see what I originally voted for.  It can be a quick way to find old concepts that I previously found interesting, something I appreciate with past polls.  Not to mention, it's good for accountability.
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Fragasnap

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #66 on: January 22, 2016, 06:04:12 pm »
+1

In case anyone on the Tabletop Simulator kick is interested, you can use this as the front of the cards:
Code: [Select]
http://i.imgur.com/gKPGnRt.jpgand this as the back:
Code: [Select]
http://i.imgur.com/yzZJDcw.jpg
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #67 on: January 22, 2016, 06:28:20 pm »
0

Nice work on those cards. Have you used them yet?
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #68 on: January 22, 2016, 11:41:41 pm »
0

Clarification on Research Assistant:

Quote
The intent is that you call it before playing any treasures.  Thus, if you call Research Assistant, you could be forced to discard treasures that you wanted to play.
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #69 on: January 25, 2016, 04:06:50 pm »
0

Most of these finalists aren't really interesting to me.  I keep going back to this pre-voting comment:

I submitted a card for this. I feel like making an Adventures card for this contest is difficult because the central theme of Adventures to me seems to be about pushing boundaries and changing up what we are used to. There are lots of different mechanics in Adventures, but they tend to really shake things up.

I feel like it might not be enough to just have a card that incorporates the mechanics of Adventures. You'll probably want to have a card that involves strategic considerations outside of what we're used to from other expansions.

I think it's a great point, and I feel like only Paladin and Circus push that boundary to shake things up.  There were some others that didn't make it to the final voting stage, though a bunch of them were dismissed out of hand (like the one that forced a mandatory trash every turn... which maybe is not a practical idea, but it was certainly boundary-pushing).
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 04:07:56 pm by eHalcyon »
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #70 on: February 04, 2016, 05:33:41 pm »
0

Last call for votes... I only have 6 at the moment.
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enfynet

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2016, 10:56:50 pm »
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I voted, even though my card (Blueprint) did not make the finals. :)
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Asper

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2016, 08:41:19 am »
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Most of these finalists aren't really interesting to me.  I keep going back to this pre-voting comment:

I submitted a card for this. I feel like making an Adventures card for this contest is difficult because the central theme of Adventures to me seems to be about pushing boundaries and changing up what we are used to. There are lots of different mechanics in Adventures, but they tend to really shake things up.

I feel like it might not be enough to just have a card that incorporates the mechanics of Adventures. You'll probably want to have a card that involves strategic considerations outside of what we're used to from other expansions.

I think it's a great point, and I feel like only Paladin and Circus push that boundary to shake things up.  There were some others that didn't make it to the final voting stage, though a bunch of them were dismissed out of hand (like the one that forced a mandatory trash every turn... which maybe is not a practical idea, but it was certainly boundary-pushing).

Meh. Most of Adventures is about delaying stuff or keeping it for later. Durations are, Reserves are, Travellers are. And all of the tokens are, too. Events are the single Adventures thing that is about something different, and the most groundbreaking, too. They are not part of this contest, though.

Also, i voted.

eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #73 on: February 05, 2016, 12:29:06 pm »
0

Most of these finalists aren't really interesting to me.  I keep going back to this pre-voting comment:

I submitted a card for this. I feel like making an Adventures card for this contest is difficult because the central theme of Adventures to me seems to be about pushing boundaries and changing up what we are used to. There are lots of different mechanics in Adventures, but they tend to really shake things up.

I feel like it might not be enough to just have a card that incorporates the mechanics of Adventures. You'll probably want to have a card that involves strategic considerations outside of what we're used to from other expansions.

I think it's a great point, and I feel like only Paladin and Circus push that boundary to shake things up.  There were some others that didn't make it to the final voting stage, though a bunch of them were dismissed out of hand (like the one that forced a mandatory trash every turn... which maybe is not a practical idea, but it was certainly boundary-pushing).

Meh. Most of Adventures is about delaying stuff or keeping it for later. Durations are, Reserves are, Travellers are. And all of the tokens are, too. Events are the single Adventures thing that is about something different, and the most groundbreaking, too. They are not part of this contest, though.

Also, i voted.

I think that that's too broad a way of thinking about it.  OK sure, Travellers and tokens delay stuff until later, but the way they do it is very different and groundbreaking.  And they are also about cards that change effects as the game goes on.  That kind of change is new to Adventures and worthier of the expansion title than mere delay.

Edit: typo
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 12:55:55 pm by eHalcyon »
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Asper

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #74 on: February 05, 2016, 12:48:34 pm »
0

Most of these finalists aren't really interesting to me.  I keep going back to this pre-voting comment:

I submitted a card for this. I feel like making an Adventures card for this contest is difficult because the central theme of Adventures to me seems to be about pushing boundaries and changing up what we are used to. There are lots of different mechanics in Adventures, but they tend to really shake things up.

I feel like it might not be enough to just have a card that incorporates the mechanics of Adventures. You'll probably want to have a card that involves strategic considerations outside of what we're used to from other expansions.

I think it's a great point, and I feel like only Paladin and Circus push that boundary to shake things up.  There were some others that didn't make it to the final voting stage, though a bunch of them were dismissed out of hand (like the one that forced a mandatory trash every turn... which maybe is not a practical idea, but it was certainly boundary-pushing).

Meh. Most of Adventures is about delaying stuff or keeping it for later. Durations are, Reserves are, Travellers are. And all of the tokens are, too. Events are the single Adventures thing that is about something different, and the most groundbreaking, too. They are not part of this contest, though.

Also, i voted.

I think that that's too broad a day of thinking about it.  OK sure, Travellers and tokens delay stuff until later, but the way they do it is very different and groundbreaking.  And they are also about cards that change effects as the game goes on.  That kind of change is new to Adventures and worthier of the expansion title than mere delay.

Yes, i guess i sounded a bit snappy. It's true that altering the effects of existing cards is a noticeable theme, too. I just felt it was inaccurate to say that Adventures' theme was "pushing boundaries". It does, but it's theme isn't that. Dark Ages also pushed boundaries, and it's theme weren't boundaries, either. Dark Ages and Adventures feel very different, because each got its distinctive themes. DA has trash stuff, combos and Ruins. Adventures has delays, Events and altering things.

That said, i think any card using an Adventures mechanic (especially new ones) fits here. It doesn't have to make the supply explode in my face.

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Finalists!)
« Reply #75 on: February 07, 2016, 05:48:34 pm »
+4

Results:

Circus (eHalcyon) - 58
Sunken City (Asper) - 55
Research Assistant (trivialknot) - 45
Foundry (ConMan) - 41
Paladin (LibraryAdventurer) - 40
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eHalcyon

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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Results!)
« Reply #76 on: February 08, 2016, 04:23:40 pm »
+2

What a close poll!
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Re: 2016 Treasure Chest Design Contest - Part 1: Adventures (Results!)
« Reply #77 on: February 08, 2016, 04:40:15 pm »
+3

I'm just happy to be a finalist. Congratulations to eHalcyon!
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