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Author Topic: KC is far more skippable than people think.  (Read 82028 times)

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theright555J

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #300 on: January 07, 2016, 01:41:43 pm »
0

Few things in life are more delightful than giving someone a taste of his own medicine. There is a reason revenge is deemed sweet.

Assuming of course that the "someone" is aware that they are being given a taste of their own medicine instead of just being cruelly denied the words of affirmation that they are fishing for.  I'm convinced that people like GG often completely lack insight into the nature of the responses they are being given.
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enfynet

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #301 on: January 07, 2016, 01:57:00 pm »
+1

Awaclus may have meant "What's wrong with treating jerks in a manner befitting a jerk?" rather than "What's wrong with treating jerks like jerks ourselves?"

Which is equivalent if you think that the "we" here were being jerks, but Awaclus may not think that.

That's what I meant, yes.

I don't see the distinction you're trying to make. The problem with treating a jerk like a jerk is that the person doing the treating is a jerk for treating someone like a jerk. How can someone be treated like a jerk without someone treating them like a jerk?

I don't think you're a jerk for treating someone the way they deserve to be treated. Even if that does count as being a jerk, who cares?

OK then, everybody treats everyone like jerks and everyone in the world is a jerk. That's not a good thing. It tends to escalate tiny situations that can happen between normal, reasonable people and can be defused into huge arguments where bad words are said and feelings a hurt. It's also hard to talk about Dominion when that happens.

A better option would be to either be nice to him and hope he responds by being nice back, or press the "report to moderator" button and let the "system work."

PPE: ninja'd
First, I'm going to mention the semantics involved here. "Treat [subtype] the way [subtype] should be treated" does not necessarily equate to "Treat [subtype] as though you are [subtype] yourself."

I know, on a personal level, that I will be kind to a person and try to redirect their actions until a point where they simply are not "getting it" and then I change my tactic to approach it from a direction that would seem more aggressive. Now, this may not be in good taste from an objective point of view. On the other hand, do we continue to reward someone's behavior by pretending they are not acting poorly?

I actually appreciate the majority of self-moderation that goes on within F.DS as opposed to the legalistic moderation approach on so many other message boards. Sometimes this comes with things going out of hand, in which case a moderator will need to step in. Other times the problem corrects itself with either a new useful member to to community or it prevents a bad member from gaining a stronger foothold.

Some people feel they are entitled to special treatment, unfortunately. These people often need the "rude awakening" to see why this is often not the case.
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Awaclus

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #302 on: January 07, 2016, 02:02:00 pm »
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To add to this, I think the more significant problem is that it escalates things. I think this thread is a great example of that. GG may have started with what some read as an arrogant position, but the course of the thread led to him saying hateful offensive things. That's a lot worse.

Also, how is treating jerks as jerks productive? I guess it maybe "reveals" the true jerkiness of the OP, but I don't find that particularly valuable for him or for us. I definitely don't think this means we need to be accepting of jerky behavior, but I believe we can address that behavior without taunting or antagonizing them.

For what it's worth (if anything). I want to point out that I completely disagree with Adam in regard to off-topic chatter (I like it, and actually think it can be productive and even facilitate more dominion strategy discussion), but I think he's right here in regard to the way that people sort of kept pushing GG.

OK then, everybody treats everyone like jerks and everyone in the world is a jerk. That's not a good thing. It tends to escalate tiny situations that can happen between normal, reasonable people and can be defused into huge arguments where bad words are said and feelings a hurt. It's also hard to talk about Dominion when that happens.

A better option would be to either be nice to him and hope he responds by being nice back, or press the "report to moderator" button and let the "system work."

PPE: ninja'd

I feel like it was mostly me who led to him saying hateful offensive things. If there's a problem with how I treated him, I'm curious to hear what it was.
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GendoIkari

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #303 on: January 07, 2016, 02:12:48 pm »
+1

For the record, I'm pretty sure he didn't actually find my Dominion YouTube channel. If you want to find it, you pretty much have to know that it exists, it's not linked anywhere on this forum, and he didn't show up in the real-time Analytics thing on my channel right after he posted that post.

It's also a funny coincidence how he suddenly became sorry for insulting me right after I told him how the vocal sound design was done.  ::)

I disagree... if you Google your username, it comes right up. I remember checking out one of your videos once. Don't remember which one. But you do have a distinct voice which from what GOONS said I would guess he actually heard.
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Witherweaver

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #304 on: January 07, 2016, 02:22:20 pm »
+2

If "chemist" is a valid value for $gender, then we have very different definitions of gender, even counting the realms of extreme gender fluidity.

Whenever I have to fill out "Male/Female" on a form, I put "Math".  This explains a lot of the confused looks I get.
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Awaclus

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #305 on: January 07, 2016, 02:31:37 pm »
0

I disagree... if you Google your username, it comes right up. I remember checking out one of your videos once. Don't remember which one. But you do have a distinct voice which from what GOONS said I would guess he actually heard.

Really? If I Google myself on incognito mode, it's not on the first 15 pages, and if I search awaclus on YT, it is on the bottom of the first page, way below my main YouTube channel which is the first result in both cases. It's not above my main YT channel, is it?
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GendoIkari

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #306 on: January 07, 2016, 02:33:58 pm »
+1

I disagree... if you Google your username, it comes right up. I remember checking out one of your videos once. Don't remember which one. But you do have a distinct voice which from what GOONS said I would guess he actually heard.

Really? If I Google myself on incognito mode, it's not on the first 15 pages, and if I search awaclus on YT, it is on the bottom of the first page, way below my main YouTube channel which is the first result in both cases. It's not above my main YT channel, is it?

Just checked incognito mode to be sure. First result is "Awaclus - YouTube". Second result is "Awaclus/Dominion - YouTube".
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Awaclus

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #307 on: January 07, 2016, 02:40:29 pm »
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Just checked incognito mode to be sure. First result is "Awaclus - YouTube". Second result is "Awaclus/Dominion - YouTube".

Oh shit. Thanks for pointing that out. In that case, I guess he could have possibly seen one of my videos earlier (enough to not show up on the real time analytics).
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tripwire

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #308 on: January 07, 2016, 02:45:25 pm »
+2

I feel like it was mostly me who led to him saying hateful offensive things. If there's a problem with how I treated him, I'm curious to hear what it was.

Actually, I don't think you really did much of anything that seemed overly antagonistic. Although some of his most offensive points were in response to your comments, I think by that point he was in full on troll mode and actively trying to get himself banned and would have responded to anyone like that no matter their tone or content. In a quick skim through your posts on this thread I generally think you were a good example of how to engage him without egging him on.

To be fair, I also don't think it was one particular person who further antagonized GG. But I can see how someone like him saw this as a bunch of people ganging up on him. In the scheme of things, I thought this thread was fairly civil on the f.ds side of things. It's just that I think the level of civility might be lower than most people think. Like by 12%  ;)
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faust

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #309 on: January 07, 2016, 02:46:32 pm »
0

Few things in life are more delightful than giving someone a taste of his own medicine. There is a reason revenge is deemed sweet.

There's a group I know you could join if this is your fulfilment in life. I think the name is something with lots of Is and Ses...
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AdamH

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #310 on: January 07, 2016, 02:53:22 pm »
+1

First, I'm going to mention the semantics involved here. "Treat [subtype] the way [subtype] should be treated" does not necessarily equate to "Treat [subtype] as though you are [subtype] yourself."

I agree with you so hard, that's exactly why I think we should treat people who are being jerks like we are nice people! It's so good!

I feel like it was mostly me who led to him saying hateful offensive things. If there's a problem with how I treated him, I'm curious to hear what it was.

You are not one of the three people who made the 5 posts I don't like, actually. On the other hand (and please correct me if I'm wrong because I could totally be putting words in your mouth) it seems like you don't have any problem with anyone's posts in this thread other than goon garden, right? Would you also say that even if we treated him in a way that would normally be objectionable, that it would be justified because of something that he did?

If you think either of those things, then I'd disagree with you. I'd also be surprised if there weren't many other people reading this and posting in this thread that thought either of those things. I'd disagree with them too.

In any case, maybe this disagreement is what you're feeling?
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Kirian

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #311 on: January 07, 2016, 02:57:32 pm »
+5

Few things in life are more delightful than giving someone a taste of his own medicine. There is a reason revenge is deemed sweet.

There's a group I know you could join if this is your fulfilment in life. I think the name is something with lots of Is and Ses...

The Mississippi Sissies?
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Awaclus

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #312 on: January 07, 2016, 03:10:01 pm »
0

You are not one of the three people who made the 5 posts I don't like, actually. On the other hand (and please correct me if I'm wrong because I could totally be putting words in your mouth) it seems like you don't have any problem with anyone's posts in this thread other than goon garden, right?

Right.

Would you also say that even if we treated him in a way that would normally be objectionable, that it would be justified because of something that he did?

I would rather say that it wouldn't have to be justified, considering what he did.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #313 on: January 07, 2016, 03:20:34 pm »
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If Awaclus isn't one of them, I think that makes me one of them. Which is true, I could've been far more respectful. But I did apologize at least once, maybe I did twice. But I'm not going to reread and look for it.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 03:47:55 pm by Roadrunner7671 »
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AdamH

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #314 on: January 07, 2016, 03:40:17 pm »
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If Awaclus isn't one of them, I think that makes me one of them. Which is true, I could've been far more respectful. But J did apologize at least once, maybe I did twice. But I'm not going to reread and look for it.

Nope, not you either!

I should probably stop commenting on these though. Eventually you'll POE into something.

You are not one of the three people who made the 5 posts I don't like, actually. On the other hand (and please correct me if I'm wrong because I could totally be putting words in your mouth) it seems like you don't have any problem with anyone's posts in this thread other than goon garden, right?

Right.

Would you also say that even if we treated him in a way that would normally be objectionable, that it would be justified because of something that he did?

I would rather say that it wouldn't have to be justified, considering what he did.

OK then. I super-disagree with you. I really think you should reconsider these views you have. I know you won't, but I think a lot more people would like you and it would reflect better on the community (and you too) if you did.
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Awaclus

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #315 on: January 07, 2016, 05:40:17 pm »
+1

I have just recently (I think it was this year, but could have been late December) reconsidered my views and slightly changed them, too. But the view that each individual should be responsible solely for getting the best possible outcome for themselves is just so good it's going to take a lot of really compelling arguments to change that. Even this whole thread is a very good example of why that is the case when you have the following views:

  • when you disagree with someone, it's the other person's fault for being a person who disagrees for the sake of disagreeing
  • when you derail your own thread, it was the "trolls" who derailed it
  • when you're posting stupid and offensive stuff on the Internet it's the fault of a lot of negative crap in your life coming up to the surface on its own without you having any influence on it at all
  • when people have actual data showing that you've been more rude and insulting than the other posters after you've accused the others of being rude and insulting, your being rude and insulting is also a direct consequence of the (non-existent) rudeness and insults by the other people and you were completely devoid of any agency on that matter and the person collecting the data is also at fault for going through all that trouble just to have one more thing to scold you for
  • when you don't have data about the subject you're making a thread on and you make estimates as a substitute, and a bit later someone (presumably the first person who still remembered where that data was) comes and has the relevant data, all of your false estimates were false because other people didn't tell you you could have looked up the data yourself

, you tend to cause shitstorms and get banned. And the next time you join a forum, it's going to happen again because somehow after the last incident, the other people haven't managed to improve themselves so that they could cater to you. Feeling entitled to certain kind of special treatment from other people causes trouble for the people around you, not receiving that special treatment causes you to hold stupid grudges against people, perceivably not being able to influence things in your own life is very unsatisfying and things suck for yourself and everyone involved.

If I'm participating in a discussion online with someone who disagrees with me even though I don't like it, it's my own fault for participating in it. If I derail a thread that I'd rather not have derailed, it's my own fault. If people call me out on posting stupid stuff on the Internet, it's my own fault, and if a lot of negative crap is going on in my life, that's also my own fault. Even if people were being rude and insulting towards me, that would be my own fault for not deserving better treatment, and taking offense from lighthearted jokes would most certainly be my own fault. Then I can learn from the experience, become a better person, and hopefully next time things will work out better.

As it turns out, with these views, I managed to have this discussion without appearing overly antagonistic while thoroughly enjoying the entire thread. I've also been under the impression that most people who are important to me actually do like me, and I don't really see how it would make them like me more if I stopped intentionally trying to be a person that they would like and started demanding that they have to do their best to be the kind of people that I like instead.
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faust

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #316 on: January 07, 2016, 05:48:02 pm »
+1

I think you're getting this backwards. What Adam and other are saying is not that we should have granted Goon Garden some kind of special treatment, but instead that we should have given him the same treatment we would have given anyone else. Now you might say that we did, and there might be an argument for that, but that is not the argument you are making now.
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faust

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #317 on: January 07, 2016, 05:52:36 pm »
+2

If I'm participating in a discussion online with someone who disagrees with me even though I don't like it, it's my own fault for participating in it. If I derail a thread that I'd rather not have derailed, it's my own fault. If people call me out on posting stupid stuff on the Internet, it's my own fault, and if a lot of negative crap is going on in my life, that's also my own fault. Even if people were being rude and insulting towards me, that would be my own fault for not deserving better treatment, and taking offense from lighthearted jokes would most certainly be my own fault. Then I can learn from the experience, become a better person, and hopefully next time things will work out better.

And, by the way, while there is certainly merit in asking what you yourself could have done to prevent bad stuff happening to you, this line of thought is what drives people into depression and suicide, particularly the bolded part.
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #318 on: January 07, 2016, 06:01:29 pm »
+12

I really like f.ds and the community as it is.

The only room for improvement I see is if everyone stopped telling other people how to behave.
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Witherweaver

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #319 on: January 07, 2016, 06:35:55 pm »
+3

I really like f.ds and the community as it is.

The only room for improvement I see is if everyone stopped telling other people how to behave.

YOU'RE NOT MY SUPERVISOR!!!
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Kirian

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #320 on: January 07, 2016, 06:54:41 pm »
+4

I really like f.ds and the community as it is.

The only room for improvement I see is if everyone stopped telling other people how to behave.

That's just, like, your opinion, man.
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Kfm

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #321 on: January 07, 2016, 07:06:06 pm »
+1

and the quips really tie the threads together.
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #322 on: January 07, 2016, 07:57:33 pm »
0

So I don't know any of you guys well enough to participate in this discussion, but I do want to add the following.

There is no forum without drama, except for a dead forum. It's a fact of life.
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #323 on: January 07, 2016, 08:01:07 pm »
0

So I don't know any of you guys well enough to participate in this discussion, but I do want to add the following.

There is no forum without drama, except for a dead forum. It's a fact of life.

You go to hell, sir.
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #324 on: January 07, 2016, 10:01:47 pm »
0

This thread is amazing!

Come on guys, let's keep this thing rolling  8)
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