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Author Topic: KC is far more skippable than people think.  (Read 92036 times)

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theright555J

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #275 on: January 07, 2016, 11:03:16 am »
0

That's why during sexual harassment education (mandatory for my workplace), it's only harassment if it continues after the person has requested the behavior to stop.

At the risk of making possibly the most off-topic post in this thread, really?!

Well, if you tell a woman that she's pretty and/or ask her out on a date and she says no and you drop it, is that harassment? No. Might she still feel intimidated or put off, especially if there exists a power gradient in the workplace between you and she? Yes. But it still wouldn't fly in court as sexual harassment because she said no and you stopped. It's the repetitive annoyance or attempt to intimidate that leads to problems. This is known as the "hostile environment" definition. True "quid pro quo" (i.e. sleep with me or you're fired) is actually quite rare.
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #276 on: January 07, 2016, 11:19:19 am »
+4

That's why during sexual harassment education (mandatory for my workplace), it's only harassment if it continues after the person has requested the behavior to stop.

At the risk of making possibly the most off-topic post in this thread, really?!

Well, if you tell a woman that she's pretty and/or ask her out on a date and she says no and you drop it, is that harassment? No. Might she still feel intimidated or put off, especially if there exists a power gradient in the workplace between you and she? Yes. But it still wouldn't fly in court as sexual harassment because she said no and you stopped. It's the repetitive annoyance or attempt to intimidate that leads to problems. This is known as the "hostile environment" definition. True "quid pro quo" (i.e. sleep with me or you're fired) is actually quite rare.
I think Infthitbox's surprise was that there is a space between "You look pretty" and physical assault or "Sleep with me or you're fired", and that space is full of things that shouldn't require a "no."

Examples would include even some variations on the first ("Lookin' hot today, baby" is objectively harrassment), but also lewd jokes, variations on "$gender is [crazy|jerks|bitches] because $stereotype", and a host of other things.
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Witherweaver

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #277 on: January 07, 2016, 11:20:20 am »
+2

That's why during sexual harassment education (mandatory for my workplace), it's only harassment if it continues after the person has requested the behavior to stop.

At the risk of making possibly the most off-topic post in this thread, really?!

Well, if you tell a woman that she's pretty and/or ask her out on a date and she says no and you drop it, is that harassment? No. Might she still feel intimidated or put off, especially if there exists a power gradient in the workplace between you and she? Yes. But it still wouldn't fly in court as sexual harassment because she said no and you stopped. It's the repetitive annoyance or attempt to intimidate that leads to problems. This is known as the "hostile environment" definition. True "quid pro quo" (i.e. sleep with me or you're fired) is actually quite rare.
I think Infthitbox's surprise was that there is a space between "You look pretty" and physical assault or "Sleep with me or you're fired", and that space is full of things that shouldn't require a "no."

Examples would include even some variations on the first ("Lookin' hot today, baby" is objectively harrassment), but also lewd jokes, variations on "$gender is [crazy|jerks|bitches] because $stereotype", and a host of other things.

Chemist is crazy because mercury.

Am I doing it right?
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Infthitbox

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #278 on: January 07, 2016, 11:29:17 am »
+2

That's why during sexual harassment education (mandatory for my workplace), it's only harassment if it continues after the person has requested the behavior to stop.

At the risk of making possibly the most off-topic post in this thread, really?!

Well, if you tell a woman that she's pretty and/or ask her out on a date and she says no and you drop it, is that harassment? No. Might she still feel intimidated or put off, especially if there exists a power gradient in the workplace between you and she? Yes. But it still wouldn't fly in court as sexual harassment because she said no and you stopped. It's the repetitive annoyance or attempt to intimidate that leads to problems. This is known as the "hostile environment" definition. True "quid pro quo" (i.e. sleep with me or you're fired) is actually quite rare.
I think Infthitbox's surprise was that there is a space between "You look pretty" and physical assault or "Sleep with me or you're fired", and that space is full of things that shouldn't require a "no."

Examples would include even some variations on the first ("Lookin' hot today, baby" is objectively harrassment), but also lewd jokes, variations on "$gender is [crazy|jerks|bitches] because $stereotype", and a host of other things.

Precisely. Maybe its the fact that I work at a college, which has very real, inherent power differences between faculty, students, and administrative staff (the category I'm in), but the tone of our harassment training was very, very different.
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Kirian

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #279 on: January 07, 2016, 11:47:25 am »
+1

That's why during sexual harassment education (mandatory for my workplace), it's only harassment if it continues after the person has requested the behavior to stop.

At the risk of making possibly the most off-topic post in this thread, really?!

Well, if you tell a woman that she's pretty and/or ask her out on a date and she says no and you drop it, is that harassment? No. Might she still feel intimidated or put off, especially if there exists a power gradient in the workplace between you and she? Yes. But it still wouldn't fly in court as sexual harassment because she said no and you stopped. It's the repetitive annoyance or attempt to intimidate that leads to problems. This is known as the "hostile environment" definition. True "quid pro quo" (i.e. sleep with me or you're fired) is actually quite rare.
I think Infthitbox's surprise was that there is a space between "You look pretty" and physical assault or "Sleep with me or you're fired", and that space is full of things that shouldn't require a "no."

Examples would include even some variations on the first ("Lookin' hot today, baby" is objectively harrassment), but also lewd jokes, variations on "$gender is [crazy|jerks|bitches] because $stereotype", and a host of other things.

Chemist is crazy because mercury.

Am I doing it right?

If "chemist" is a valid value for $gender, then we have very different definitions of gender, even counting the realms of extreme gender fluidity.
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AdamH

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #280 on: January 07, 2016, 12:05:10 pm »
+2

An argument for why this thread should now be locked: the discussion has firmly taken a direction that really should be confined to RSP.

Man, we're so good at staying on topic. This is amazing.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #281 on: January 07, 2016, 12:08:37 pm »
0

Oh man. Are we purposely trying to get this thread locked? Because we can do that. But let's not.
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XerxesPraelor

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #282 on: January 07, 2016, 12:26:03 pm »
+7

Okay - I feel like pointing out what AdamH may be talking about.

Somewhere in the thread GOON GARDEN said "I really don't like it when people pick apart my words. Stop it!"

The next few posts were along the lines of "I don't think it's really your 'words' which we picked apart."

This sort of purposeful taunting is not the way we should treat people even when we know they are jerks.
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #283 on: January 07, 2016, 12:40:26 pm »
+7

Maybe too late....

When the only way to get an engine going is to line up KC/KC/Margrave in a single hand in the midst of Mountebank junking you're going to run into trouble.  Think of it as needing 3 Treasure Maps in hand to cash in and the only way for you to win is to line them up almost every turn.
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #284 on: January 07, 2016, 12:51:55 pm »
0

This sort of purposeful taunting is not the way we should treat people even when we know they are jerks.

Why not? What's wrong with treating jerks like jerks?
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #285 on: January 07, 2016, 12:55:30 pm »
+2

This sort of purposeful taunting is not the way we should treat people even when we know they are jerks.

Why not? What's wrong with treating jerks like jerks?

Who is the more jerkish, the jerk or the jerk that follows him?
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #286 on: January 07, 2016, 12:56:52 pm »
+1

This sort of purposeful taunting is not the way we should treat people even when we know they are jerks.

Why not? What's wrong with treating jerks like jerks?

Who is the jerkier jerk, the jerk or the jerk that jerks him?

Fixed that for you.
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #287 on: January 07, 2016, 12:58:19 pm »
+4

This sort of purposeful taunting is not the way we should treat people even when we know they are jerks.

Why not? What's wrong with treating jerks like jerks?

Who is the more jerkish, the jerk or the jerk that follows him?

If a tree jerks in the forest, and no one hears it, am I still offended?
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AdamH

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #288 on: January 07, 2016, 01:07:17 pm »
+6

This sort of purposeful taunting is not the way we should treat people even when we know they are jerks.

Why not? What's wrong with treating jerks like jerks?

Umm, because then we're jerks too?
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Witherweaver

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #289 on: January 07, 2016, 01:12:44 pm »
0

Awaclus may have meant "What's wrong with treating jerks in a manner befitting a jerk?" rather than "What's wrong with treating jerks like jerks ourselves?"

Which is equivalent if you think that the "we" here were being jerks, but Awaclus may not think that.
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AdamH

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #290 on: January 07, 2016, 01:16:43 pm »
0

I don't see the distinction you're trying to make. The problem with treating a jerk like a jerk is that the person doing the treating is a jerk for treating someone like a jerk. How can someone be treated like a jerk without someone treating them like a jerk?
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #291 on: January 07, 2016, 01:17:20 pm »
0

This sort of purposeful taunting is not the way we should treat people even when we know they are jerks.

Why not? What's wrong with treating jerks like jerks?

Umm, because then we're jerks too?

I completely agree with this.
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Witherweaver

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #292 on: January 07, 2016, 01:19:52 pm »
+2

I don't see the distinction you're trying to make. The problem with treating a jerk like a jerk is that the person doing the treating is a jerk for treating someone like a jerk. How can someone be treated like a jerk without someone treating them like a jerk?

No, I mean, the difference between the implied "like *they are*" vs. "like *we are*" in "like a jerk".  As in, you think a jerk should be treated in a certain manner. (Say, take their toy away and put them in time-out.)

Edit: In other words, he may have been saying "Treat them like they deserve to be treated", which may not necessarily mean to be a jerk yourself.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 01:20:59 pm by Witherweaver »
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #293 on: January 07, 2016, 01:21:10 pm »
+1

Few things in life are more delightful than giving someone a taste of his own medicine. There is a reason revenge is deemed sweet.
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Witherweaver

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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #294 on: January 07, 2016, 01:21:39 pm »
+17

Few things in life are more delightful than giving someone a taste of his own medicine. There is a reason revenge is deemed sweet.

If revenge is what you're interested in, I know a great website....
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #295 on: January 07, 2016, 01:22:26 pm »
0

Awaclus may have meant "What's wrong with treating jerks in a manner befitting a jerk?" rather than "What's wrong with treating jerks like jerks ourselves?"

Which is equivalent if you think that the "we" here were being jerks, but Awaclus may not think that.

That's what I meant, yes.

I don't see the distinction you're trying to make. The problem with treating a jerk like a jerk is that the person doing the treating is a jerk for treating someone like a jerk. How can someone be treated like a jerk without someone treating them like a jerk?

I don't think you're a jerk for treating someone the way they deserve to be treated. Even if that does count as being a jerk, who cares?
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #296 on: January 07, 2016, 01:23:19 pm »
+2

This sort of purposeful taunting is not the way we should treat people even when we know they are jerks.

Why not? What's wrong with treating jerks like jerks?

Umm, because then we're jerks too?

To add to this, I think the more significant problem is that it escalates things. I think this thread is a great example of that. GG may have started with what some read as an arrogant position, but the course of the thread led to him saying hateful offensive things. That's a lot worse.

Also, how is treating jerks as jerks productive? I guess it maybe "reveals" the true jerkiness of the OP, but I don't find that particularly valuable for him or for us. I definitely don't think this means we need to be accepting of jerky behavior, but I believe we can address that behavior without taunting or antagonizing them.

For what it's worth (if anything). I want to point out that I completely disagree with Adam in regard to off-topic chatter (I like it, and actually think it can be productive and even facilitate more dominion strategy discussion), but I think he's right here in regard to the way that people sort of kept pushing GG.
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #297 on: January 07, 2016, 01:26:44 pm »
+2

Few things in life are more delightful than giving someone a taste of his own medicine. There is a reason revenge is deemed sweet.

If revenge is what you're interested in, I know a great website....

To go with this thread, presumably it's revengemountebank.com or revengemargrave.com

This sort of purposeful taunting is not the way we should treat people even when we know they are jerks.

Why not? What's wrong with treating jerks like jerks?

Umm, because then we're jerks too?

I completely agree with this.

Me too.  The best way to treat a jerk is to ignore his antics.
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #298 on: January 07, 2016, 01:27:31 pm »
0

Few things in life are more delightful than giving someone a taste of his own medicine. There is a reason revenge is deemed sweet.

If revenge is what you're interested in, I know a great website....

The moment I learned of its existence I signed up for a lifetime subscription.
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Re: KC is far more skippable than people think.
« Reply #299 on: January 07, 2016, 01:27:37 pm »
0

Awaclus may have meant "What's wrong with treating jerks in a manner befitting a jerk?" rather than "What's wrong with treating jerks like jerks ourselves?"

Which is equivalent if you think that the "we" here were being jerks, but Awaclus may not think that.

That's what I meant, yes.

I don't see the distinction you're trying to make. The problem with treating a jerk like a jerk is that the person doing the treating is a jerk for treating someone like a jerk. How can someone be treated like a jerk without someone treating them like a jerk?

I don't think you're a jerk for treating someone the way they deserve to be treated. Even if that does count as being a jerk, who cares?

OK then, everybody treats everyone like jerks and everyone in the world is a jerk. That's not a good thing. It tends to escalate tiny situations that can happen between normal, reasonable people and can be defused into huge arguments where bad words are said and feelings a hurt. It's also hard to talk about Dominion when that happens.

A better option would be to either be nice to him and hope he responds by being nice back, or press the "report to moderator" button and let the "system work."

PPE: ninja'd
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