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Author Topic: Secret Hitler?  (Read 2691 times)

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Grujah

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Secret Hitler?
« on: December 21, 2015, 12:01:08 am »

It's Mafia/Resistance like, kickstarted (including rules pdf) is here:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/maxtemkin/secret-hitler

Anyone wanna try it out?
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faust

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2015, 12:24:43 am »

Seems interesting. I'd be willing to try this out after the holidays.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2015, 03:55:48 am »

Oops, forgot that this was posted here too.

Yeah, I'd be interested in trying it.  Or hosting.
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skip wooznum

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2015, 03:32:14 pm »

How long will a game take?
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Archetype

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2015, 04:27:57 pm »

I'd be interested in playing too.
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skip wooznum

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2015, 05:10:11 pm »

Just a couple issues I'm trying to decide if i care about:

1)The liberals can win without actually figuring out who the fascists are (which actually happened in one of the two games i watched in twitch (the person who was least suspected was actually hitler, and the liberals won anyway)). Thats sort of bad compared to mafia. I mean, it definitely helps to figure out who the bad guys are, but that it's not necessary seems like an issue.

2)Once a liberal gets shot and the teams are even, it's basically hopeless (which is also true in mafia, but thats why there are so many more townies than scum). This is how the other game i saw ended.

I wasn't too pleased with either of these games, but i see potential for games to be better.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2015, 06:37:20 pm »

2)Once a liberal gets shot and the teams are even, it's basically hopeless (which is also true in mafia, but thats why there are so many more townies than scum). This is how the other game i saw ended.

In the game I watched, the fascists had an early lead and were able to kill liberals with both shots, but they still lost.
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Grujah

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2015, 06:46:34 pm »

1) It is sometimes fine to play very liberal as Hitler as to get elected Chancelor. You dont ahve to completely figure out, just have a good idea.
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skip wooznum

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2015, 12:50:13 am »

2)Once a liberal gets shot and the teams are even, it's basically hopeless (which is also true in mafia, but thats why there are so many more townies than scum). This is how the other game i saw ended.

In the game I watched, the fascists had an early lead and were able to kill liberals with both shots, but they still lost.
really?  Because how could they possibly lose once they have half the population? Can't they just stop every election and wait for fascist policies to be passed?
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skip wooznum

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2015, 12:51:06 am »

1) It is sometimes fine to play very liberal as Hitler as to get elected Chancelor. You dont ahve to completely figure out, just have a good idea.
Exactly. As opposed to mafia where you do have to figure it out.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2015, 01:44:58 am »

2)Once a liberal gets shot and the teams are even, it's basically hopeless (which is also true in mafia, but thats why there are so many more townies than scum). This is how the other game i saw ended.

In the game I watched, the fascists had an early lead and were able to kill liberals with both shots, but they still lost.
really?  Because how could they possibly lose once they have half the population? Can't they just stop every election and wait for fascist policies to be passed?

They made some strange moves, is how.  It was a 10 player game.  Fascists had an early lead because 2 governments ended up pulling 3 Fascist policies each.  That was followed by like 3 Liberal policies in a row, since the deck was stacked in their favour, and 1 of them was actually put in by a Fascist Chancellor who had a choice.  But at that point in the game, it was basically total confusion because of those unlucky early draws contributing no useful info followed by two forced Liberal policies (the President drew 2 Liberal, 1 Fascist and opted to discard the Fascist instead of testing the Chancellor). 

Also, the investigations were used in a chain -- Alice (I forget her name) investigated Max, then Tommy chose to investigate Alice.  Alice confirmed Max as Liberal, then Tommy confirmed Alice as Liberal.  So if you trusted Tommy, then you also trusted the rest.  They really were all Liberal, but even Max didn't really trust the other two.  The whole table was kind of against them and repeatedly theorized that it was a Fascist ploy. 

So really, the best thing then (IMO) would have been to put out the Fascist policy, sow confusion, get it done.  It would have been 3 Facsist policies on the table to 2 Liberal, with barely any info around for anybody and Hitler totally under the radar.  It would have been huge.  But nope, the guy played Liberal instead.

Then there was a really odd move where a Fascist President (the same one who chose to play a Liberal policy) nominated Hitler as the Chancellor (before the third Fascist policy, so it wasn't a win condition yet).  It passed, he drew 2 Liberal and 1 Fascist policy, discarded a Liberal.  Hitler chose to play the Fascist policy and claimed he was given 2.  It was a lie that the President could have corroborated (thus signalling to Hitler that they were on the same side).  Instead, the President picked a fight with Hitler and got them both sidelined from any future governments.  I'm still not sure this was a good move because it basically ruined any chance of electing Hitler as Chancellor later, but it also fuelled a key play later.  I'm mostly calling this out as a weird play.  An important thing here is that the Fascist told the truth that he had discarded a Liberal policy, which Max (arguably the most trustworthy at the table) called out as too big to be a lie.  He reasoned that if the President were the fascist in this scenario, he could have more easily claimed to have discarded another Fascist policy.  He also reasoned that neither in the pair was Hitler, because it would have been dumb to pick a fight as Hitler at that point.

It was a 10 player game so, even after using both bullets to take out liberals, they were exactly tied with the liberals.  At this point, there were 5 Fascist policies on the table and only 3 Liberal.  They probably could have just failed election after election until they just topdecked for a likely win, but they didn't.  That's a tactical mistake, but kind of understandable.  They didn't want to leave it to chance. 

At this point, Max decided to trust Alice and they both decided to trust Tommy, and they managed to convince other liberals to trust as well.  Max and Tommy passed one Liberal policy, putting it at 5 to 4 and confirming for the whole table that they were all Liberal.  At this point, the deck is 6F2L.

Here's where the weird Hitler play came in.  They trusted that one Fascist player because of his admission to discarding a Liberal card in the only major conflict of the game.  So their plan was to fail elections until THAT player was President, then have him form a government with Alice.  And so it happened!

But bad luck -- his draw included both remaining Liberal cards.

tl;dr - it was a combination of odd play and bad luck.  Even if you can stop every election, the deck may not be in your favour.

1) It is sometimes fine to play very liberal as Hitler as to get elected Chancelor. You dont ahve to completely figure out, just have a good idea.
Exactly. As opposed to mafia where you do have to figure it out.

I think what Grujah means is that the Liberals don't have to figure it out, but they have to play carefully.  In their playtest data, Liberals usually win by passing 5 Liberal policies whereas Fascists usually win by electing Hitler.  So a big part of the gameplay is in finding/hiding Hitler.  Liberals don't have to figure out who the Fascists are, but they have to avoid Hitler.
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Kirian

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2015, 02:48:03 am »

Couldn't this all be solved with a well-place time machine?
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Grujah

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2015, 08:10:07 am »

1) It is sometimes fine to play very liberal as Hitler as to get elected Chancelor. You dont ahve to completely figure out, just have a good idea.
Exactly. As opposed to mafia where you do have to figure it out.

I think what Grujah means is that the Liberals don't have to figure it out, but they have to play carefully.  In their playtest data, Liberals usually win by passing 5 Liberal policies whereas Fascists usually win by electing Hitler.  So a big part of the gameplay is in finding/hiding Hitler.  Liberals don't have to figure out who the Fascists are, but they have to avoid Hitler.

Yes, you often see them giving chancellor so somebody who might be fasict, but probably not hitler, over somebody who can easily by liberal, but also easily hitler.

I haven't played, especially not as much as those people (who probably have more advance strats), so I don't really even have that good of a feel for that game, it's just one I'd like to try out.
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Kirian

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2015, 01:34:01 pm »

So, I hate social deduction games and wouldon't want to play.  However, the game looks exactly interesting enough that I'm willing to moderate, as this will need a moderator online, so you all can fight with each other while I watch!

It looks like there's enough interest, so I'll set up a thread later.  Actual game won't start before 02 January to get everyone through holidays, later if people /in and request a later start date.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2015, 03:54:04 pm »

I would totally play, it looks awesome.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2016, 06:50:29 pm »

I am sad that this game started before I even saw it, and I only saw it because of the out-of-context thread.  Was the game started in Non-Forum Games?  Because of how much activity it has, I keep it out of my Unread Posts page.   :(

I wish somebody had mentioned the sign up thread over here...
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 06:52:43 pm by eHalcyon »
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Kirian

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2016, 08:16:22 pm »

I am sad that this game started before I even saw it, and I only saw it because of the out-of-context thread.  Was the game started in Non-Forum Games?  Because of how much activity it has, I keep it out of my Unread Posts page.   :(

I wish somebody had mentioned the sign up thread over here...

Sorry man, I thought mentioning it above was enough.  It's in non-mafia forum games, which has a lot less traffic than mafia I believe.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2016, 08:35:15 pm »

I am sad that this game started before I even saw it, and I only saw it because of the out-of-context thread.  Was the game started in Non-Forum Games?  Because of how much activity it has, I keep it out of my Unread Posts page.   :(

I wish somebody had mentioned the sign up thread over here...

Sorry man, I thought mentioning it above was enough.  It's in non-mafia forum games, which has a lot less traffic than mafia I believe.

I saw your above post, but I thought you would post again when an actual sign up thread was up.  Oh well...
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chairs

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2016, 12:03:32 pm »

I'm interested in playing this, but I primarily play over Steam via TableTop Simulator.

I'm not opposed to PBF though.

scott_pilgrim

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2016, 11:47:17 pm »

I am sad that this game started before I even saw it, and I only saw it because of the out-of-context thread.  Was the game started in Non-Forum Games?  Because of how much activity it has, I keep it out of my Unread Posts page.   :(

I wish somebody had mentioned the sign up thread over here...

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15002.0
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eHalcyon

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Re: Secret Hitler?
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2016, 02:43:23 am »

I am sad that this game started before I even saw it, and I only saw it because of the out-of-context thread.  Was the game started in Non-Forum Games?  Because of how much activity it has, I keep it out of my Unread Posts page.   :(

I wish somebody had mentioned the sign up thread over here...

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=15002.0

I did see the new thread, but thanks. :)

At the current time, I'm not sure I'm able to make the time commitment, especially given how long the first game went!
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