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Author Topic: Dual Traveller Progression: Navy/Army  (Read 1234 times)

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Gubump

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Dual Traveller Progression: Navy/Army
« on: December 16, 2015, 01:57:14 pm »
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Since creating new traveller progressions seems to be all the rage now, here's my own attempt at it (and it does branch off, like several other fan progressions):

Base Card:

Grunt:
+3 Actions
If you have your Admiral token, +1 Card.
If you have your General token, +1 Card.

When you discard this from play, if you have no remaining Actions (Actions, not Action cards), you may exchange this for an Ensign. If this isn't the only Grunt you have in play, you may exchange it for a Lieutenant.
Cost: $3
Action - Looter - Traveller

FAQ: You discard cards from play one at a time, so if you have two Grunts in play when cleanup starts, you can only exchange one into a Lieutenant, because when you discard the 2nd one from play, its the only Grunt you have in play.



Navy Progression: Theme: Durations

Ensign:
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+2 Actions
+1 Buy
+$1
Each other player takes his -$1 token.

When you discard this from play, if you didn't buy any cards costing $5 or less this turn, you may exchange this for an Admiral. (This is not in the Supply)
Cost: $5*
Action - Attack - Duration - Traveller

Admiral:
Take your Admiral token.
Now and at the start of your next turn:
+2 Cards
+1 Action

When you discard this from play, put it on your Tavern mat. At the start of your turn, you may put this into your discard pile for +1 Card and +1 Action. (This is not in the Supply)
Cost: $8*
Action - Duration - Reserve



Army Progression: Theme: Choices

Lieutenant:
Reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put any number of them into your hand and discard the rest. +$1 per card discarded this way.

When you discard this from play, put any number of Grunts you have in play on top of your deck. If you put at least two on top this way, you may exchange this for a General. (This is not in the Supply)
Cost: $5*
Action - Traveller

FAQ: You cannot exchange a Grunt for another Traveller after putting it on top of your deck, as you never discarded it from play.

General:
Take your General token.
Choose one: Gain a Duchy; or gain a Gold. Either way, put it into your hand.
Each other player gains a Ruins and a Copper.
Cost: $8*
Action - Attack

FAQ: Generals are always used when Grunts are, so Estates are worth 0VP whenever Grunts are in the Supply.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 12:09:44 pm by Gubump »
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faust

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Re: Dual Traveller Progression: Navy/Army
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2015, 02:31:24 pm »
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You can never get the Navy progression without other Duration cards... that seems like a waste.

Ensign seems a tad boring and weak, it's a glorified Fishing Village. Also, both Grunt and Ensign serve as non-drawing Villages, I think the cards in a Traveller line should serve different functions. The exchange condition seems very narrow.

Admiral has an interesting way of setting up a triple-duration. It does not seem very strong. I mean decent, but it takes a while to get there. Again I would like it for the cards itself did more interesting stuff than just draw. Admiral already provides draw through the tokens.

Anyway, the tokens. I think it is cleaner if you just have Admiral say "put your +1 card token on Grunt", and then have General use another token (+1$?).

Lieutenant: A simple Smithy+ that works well with BM. IF course you need to get 2 Grunts for it, so chances are that you won't be playing BM when you get this. Why does it have Reserve type?

General I don't understand.. are your supposed to give opponents two Coppers and Estates per play? Probably not. I don't see why the whole Estate-reducing stuff is necessary, just give out Ruins. And anyway if this has a setup rule, it should be on Grunt. Main effect is a bit stronger than Count late-game.

Overall, I feel like the cards could be a bit less vanilla-y. Most of them just don't seem too interesting. From power-level, the whole thing is probably okay, though might be on the weaker side. The Navy line needs fixed exchange conditions.
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Gubump

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Re: Dual Traveller Progression: Navy/Army
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2015, 02:51:03 pm »
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You can never get the Navy progression without other Duration cards... that seems like a waste.

Ensign seems a tad boring and weak, it's a glorified Fishing Village. Also, both Grunt and Ensign serve as non-drawing Villages, I think the cards in a Traveller line should serve different functions. The exchange condition seems very narrow.

Admiral has an interesting way of setting up a triple-duration. It does not seem very strong. I mean decent, but it takes a while to get there. Again I would like it for the cards itself did more interesting stuff than just draw. Admiral already provides draw through the tokens.

How does admiral seem weak? It's a lab now, a double-lab+village next turn, and on the turn you call it, it's a lab+village.

Anyway, the tokens. I think it is cleaner if you just have Admiral say "put your +1 card token on Grunt", and then have General use another token (+1$?).

I could do that, but then it doesn't stack with the +1 Card token, which I intended for it to do.

Lieutenant: A simple Smithy+ that works well with BM. IF course you need to get 2 Grunts for it, so chances are that you won't be playing BM when you get this. Why does it have Reserve type?

Because I made a typo.

General I don't understand.. are your supposed to give opponents two Coppers and Estates per play? Probably not. I don't see why the whole Estate-reducing stuff is necessary, just give out Ruins. And anyway if this has a setup rule, it should be on Grunt. Main effect is a bit stronger than Count late-game.

Overall, I feel like the cards could be a bit less vanilla-y. Most of them just don't seem too interesting. From power-level, the whole thing is probably okay, though might be on the weaker side. The Navy line needs fixed exchange conditions.

General's attack is basically this: Say I'm the one being attacked. I gain a Copper and a Ruins/Estate. Then, I choose one: I either put the Copper on top of my deck and gain a 2nd ruins; or I put the Ruins/Estate on top of my deck and gain a 2nd Copper.

I guess I should change the Navy line's exchange conditions. What do you think I should do? Nevermind, I thought of some.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 02:56:47 pm by Gubump »
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convolucid

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Re: Dual Traveller Progression: Navy/Army
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2015, 02:20:24 pm »
+1

Sadly I think these cards would be frustrating to play with. The upgrading conditions are narrow and the rewards for success are enormous. What kind of deck do you expect me to build before I can get an Ensign? One that has exactly 1 Grunt, 3 (at minimum) terminals and a load of sifters to somehow get them all in play on the same turn. That's a lot of setup, and it's much worse in kingdoms without strong sifting or trashing. If both players go for it there will be a lot of luck involved in deciding who upgrades first. Contrast with the official Travelers, which have a simple but deep success condition - cycle your deck as fast as possible.

Also, they are just really complicated. Man. One kingdom card leads to reading an essay. I think you can get most of what you're going for here with way less stuff.

On a positive note, some of the ideas here are cool. I like the idea of General/Admiral buffing up your grunts. Grunt+Grunt=Lieutenant is actually solid, and "buy lots of Grunts" immediately shows synergy with the final stage of buffed Grunts. General's uber-junking is neat too, although I think Estate=Confusion is superfluous. I would try just Copper/Curse on top, Copper/Curse in discard pile, and find the right power level there with just two (which is a lot!) junk cards.
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Gubump

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Re: Dual Traveller Progression: Navy/Army
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2015, 05:42:34 pm »
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Sadly I think these cards would be frustrating to play with. The upgrading conditions are narrow and the rewards for success are enormous. What kind of deck do you expect me to build before I can get an Ensign? One that has exactly 1 Grunt, 3 (at minimum) terminals and a load of sifters to somehow get them all in play on the same turn. That's a lot of setup, and it's much worse in kingdoms without strong sifting or trashing. If both players go for it there will be a lot of luck involved in deciding who upgrades first. Contrast with the official Travelers, which have a simple but deep success condition - cycle your deck as fast as possible.

Also, they are just really complicated. Man. One kingdom card leads to reading an essay. I think you can get most of what you're going for here with way less stuff.

On a positive note, some of the ideas here are cool. I like the idea of General/Admiral buffing up your grunts. Grunt+Grunt=Lieutenant is actually solid, and "buy lots of Grunts" immediately shows synergy with the final stage of buffed Grunts. General's uber-junking is neat too, although I think Estate=Confusion is superfluous. I would try just Copper/Curse on top, Copper/Curse in discard pile, and find the right power level there with just two (which is a lot!) junk cards.

I'm glad you like the Army path, and as for General, I meant to change Estates to Ruins, but I guess I forgot. Do you think I should just dump the Navy path, or change the requirements? And if the latter, what requirements do you suggest?
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drsteelhammer

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Re: Dual Traveller Progression: Navy/Army
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2015, 02:30:17 am »
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By the way, your wording for General doesn't work out. Most of the time, I will put the copper on top and fail to gain a copy of the ruin I got since another one is on top.
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luser

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Re: Dual Traveller Progression: Navy/Army
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2015, 04:29:42 am »
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Now that you described general main problem here is that these cards are too strong. It look like on most boards grunt rush would be optimal, you buy only grunts (unless there is trashing where you want trasher/silver) to promote them to lieutenants and generals once you get one general will likely get province per turn, with optional duchies and junk oppopent.

Problem with navy line is that its too weak, actions do not matter when grunt is double village you likely wont use extra actions.
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Gubump

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Re: Dual Traveller Progression: Navy/Army
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2015, 10:15:33 am »
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Nerfed General; It now only gives 1 ruins and 1 copper and doesn't topdeck either of them.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Dual Traveller Progression: Navy/Army
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2015, 11:47:48 am »
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Nerfed General; It now only gives 1 ruins and 1 copper and doesn't topdeck either of them.
If General is going to give out Ruins, you need to make Grunt a Looter.
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