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Author Topic: Highway/Market/Stables buy Order  (Read 2498 times)

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Davio

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Highway/Market/Stables buy Order
« on: January 14, 2012, 01:58:46 pm »
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I just played a Colony game which had Bazaar, Market, Highway, Stables, Quarry and Chancellor/Oracle.

So Chancellor and Oracle were the only terminals. I opened Chancellor/Quarry since I knew I was always going to be able to play Chancellor and this way I could play those juicy cantrips earlier.

The real problem I face in these types of games of what to gain at what time?
I want Markets for the extra buys.
I want Highways to be able to get more out of those buys.
I need Stables to keep things going (no trashing).

I just went with what I feel I needed at any given time. I started with Market, because I already had Quarry. Soon after I gathered some Stables to be able to play the Market/Quarry more often. Then I took some Highways, extra Markets and more Stables.

My opponent resigned after I had 4 Colonies vs his 0.

What would you buy and when? I always muck about on feel on these types of kingdoms, but want to know if some of you have any rational ideas.
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DStu

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Re: Highway/Market/Stables buy Order
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 02:15:41 pm »
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I probably would also do it wrong, but my plan would be to get 2 Quarrys for cheap Markets, and then focus on Markets for the buys and Stables for cycling. Highways tlater when there are enough buys and they are cheap. You don't need them to get the actions, only for the VPs later.
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ackack

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Re: Highway/Market/Stables buy Order
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 03:11:32 pm »
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I just went with what I feel I needed at any given time. I started with Market, because I already had Quarry. Soon after I gathered some Stables to be able to play the Market/Quarry more often. Then I took some Highways, extra Markets and more Stables.

I think this is the correct logic for the situation.
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Geronimoo

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Re: Highway/Market/Stables buy Order
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 03:44:55 pm »
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You might try to get more insight with the simulator. I played around a little with it and so far this is the best I came up with:

Open Chancellor/Quarry, then get 2 Markets and another Quarry,  then 6 Stables (yes 6), then 3 more Markets, then get all the Highways

This averages 14 turns for 4 Colonies.

Here's the bot:
Code: [Select]
<player name="Market/Stables into Highway"
 author="Geronimoo"
 description="Trying to find the right order to achieve the mega Highway turn.">
 <type name="Engine"/>
 <type name="TwoPlayer"/>
 <type name="Bot"/>
 <type name="Competitive"/>
 <type name="UserCreated"/>
 <type name="Combo"/>
 <type name="Province"/>
   <buy name="Colony">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Highway"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="9.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Quarry">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Quarry"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="1.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Market">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Market"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Highway">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Market"/>
         <operator type="greaterThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="4.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Stables">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Stables"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="6.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Market"/>
   <buy name="Quarry">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Quarry"/>
         <operator type="smallerThan" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="2.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
   <buy name="Chancellor">
      <condition>
         <left type="countCardsInDeck" attribute="Chancellor"/>
         <operator type="equalTo" />
         <right type="constant" attribute="0.0"/>
      </condition>
   </buy>
</player>
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Davio

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Re: Highway/Market/Stables buy Order
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2012, 03:59:06 pm »
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You might try to get more insight with the simulator.
Yes, but the simulator and I aren't exactly best friends. I've spent hours yesterday to even get it working. Apparently, Windows 7 doesn't like Java Webstart Apps quite as well as XP. It had tot do with the cache folder Java places the jars in and its trust-level. Windows (Vista &) 7 give that folder a low-trust rating for which I used a tool to upgrade it to medium. Not really good for my system's security, but meh.

I bought a premature Colony, because I was eyeing some 3-pile options as well. With a couple of highways and Quarry in play, it was a jiffy to reduce the $5's to $0.

Also, playing this kingdom in real life has the added problem of an opponent which may try to snag as much as he can of the cards that you need. I like this added interaction, but it confuses the hell out of me. Should I grab Highways earlier than usual to deny them to my opponent?

In the actual game, the opponent bought an Oracle and didn't get very far that quickly, so it wasn't that hard. Against a much better opponent, this would have been much more difficult...
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 04:05:34 pm by Davio »
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ackack

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Re: Highway/Market/Stables buy Order
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2012, 04:20:35 pm »
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Also, playing this kingdom in real life has the added problem of an opponent which may try to snag as much as he can of the cards that you need. I like this added interaction, but it confuses the hell out of me. Should I grab Highways earlier than usual to deny them to my opponent?

I wouldn't worry about it too much. Again, Quarry is doing a lot of lifting here - if your opponent goes heavy on Highways, he's conceding Markets and Stables which are even more important for the deck. Because of the flexibility of 3 piling, structuring this as a Highway mega-turn whomping seems pretty unlikely to me. You're probably better off having lots of draw so that you can produce your Quarries on command.

I think games like this one - uncontrollable buyfests coming from multipart engines and cost reducers - are probably the least understood setups in Dominion.
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Davio

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Re: Highway/Market/Stables buy Order
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2012, 04:31:17 pm »
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I think games like this one - uncontrollable buyfests coming from multipart engines and cost reducers - are probably the least understood setups in Dominion.
I had thought about submitting something like this to the Kingdom Design contest, but didn't take the time to research it properly.

Imagine this included something like Worker's Villages and Peddlers, sheesh!
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Geronimoo

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Re: Highway/Market/Stables buy Order
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2012, 04:38:15 pm »
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In a mirror match, whoever is closest to optimal when building for the mega turn will also be able to three-pile the fastest in most cases. I don't think you should change your strategy for opening and mid game. For the end game just make sure you never give your opponent the chance to three-pile you. This means buying a few VP before the mega turn so he can't just buy up engine parts and an Estate for a win.
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ackack

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Re: Highway/Market/Stables buy Order
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2012, 05:10:47 pm »
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In a mirror match, whoever is closest to optimal when building for the mega turn will also be able to three-pile the fastest in most cases.

I think this may be a complicated case. Quarry is more useful than Highway for 3 piling but less useful for green based big turns. I'd agree with your analysis that Markets and Stables are most important here, but then a person planning on a 3 pile victory might find it easier to empty a different 3rd pile (especially if your opponent has taken some Highways) to lessen the chance of a fluke closeout by the other person. I think deciding what is best will be hard to judge without seeing what your opponent is doing.
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