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Author Topic: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool  (Read 197082 times)

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DG

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #75 on: September 17, 2011, 10:59:11 am »
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If buying the last card will end the game in a loss then the simulator will not do it. SUICIDE is printed as explanation. Although it may not immediately appear to be progressive, the alternative is a 100% losing strategy!
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #76 on: September 17, 2011, 11:14:50 am »
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The reason why is that buying the third province must end the game there, and the simulator is programmed to never make a purchase that will end the game with the bot making the buy losing - it won't kill itself.

Geronimoo

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #77 on: September 17, 2011, 11:18:30 am »
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Actually you DID find a bug TyDude: University shouldn't be gaining any Wharves at all with the buy condition you're using (count Wharves > 12). So thx for reporting!
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Tydude

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #78 on: September 17, 2011, 02:02:19 pm »
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Oh, okay, that makes perfect sense. It just confused me a lot, but I get it now.

Actually you DID find a bug TyDude: University shouldn't be gaining any Wharves at all with the buy condition you're using (count Wharves > 12). So thx for reporting!

Oh, I thought it was supposed to do that. If that's a bug, then how do you make it so that it only gains Wharves using University and never buys them?
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Geronimoo

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #79 on: September 17, 2011, 02:12:28 pm »
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I use "if available $ = 0" but that's not fool proof (eg if you played a Bazaar first it won't work anymore)

So I should probably add a new condition like "if not in buy phase" or something for gaining cards.
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DG

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #80 on: September 17, 2011, 03:11:46 pm »
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Quote
So I should probably add a new condition like "if not in buy phase" or something for gaining cards.
Yes please.
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Tydude

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Re: Dominion Simulator available for download!
« Reply #81 on: September 17, 2011, 07:43:51 pm »
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There really needs to be a way to set card trashing priority. For action heavy strategies and all that. I can't imagine this would be that hard to implement, but of course I know almost nothing about programming. Couldn't you just make a button (similar to Chapel's playstrategy button) and ask the user to set the trash priority? Have it set to whatever the default is normally, and then just reset the variable, right?
Might do this, but I'd need a compelling reason. Please give me a good example where this would be useful.
Ok, the simulation that prompted me to post that was I was trying to make a "Perfect Venture" deck (8 ventures and no other treasure) and see if it's actually feasible in a game to try that. Obviously, I couldn't. Making Scrying Pool decks or other action heavy decks (mega turns with bridges, bishop, maybe goons...) Running a Coppersmith or other copper dependent strategy but still wanting to get rid of estates. All in all, it would just be a nice feature to have.

Also, as I just found, getting Salvager and other cards like that to trash Peddler. The other strategies here are more edge cases, but this is one I've seen many times.
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Raggedjoe

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Can't save?
« Reply #82 on: October 15, 2011, 08:39:44 pm »
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I'm having a strange issue where I can't save any changes I make. Actually, everything saves and can be loaded fine, but when I close the simulator the changes go away. Anyone have any ideas what to do?
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Geronimoo

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #83 on: October 16, 2011, 04:39:24 am »
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I'm having a strange issue where I can't save any changes I make. Actually, everything saves and can be loaded fine, but when I close the simulator the changes go away. Anyone have any ideas what to do?

Could you be more specific? I don't quite understand what you mean.
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Raggedjoe

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #84 on: October 16, 2011, 01:06:39 pm »
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I'm having a strange issue where I can't save any changes I make. Actually, everything saves and can be loaded fine, but when I close the simulator the changes go away. Anyone have any ideas what to do?

Could you be more specific? I don't quite understand what you mean.

Ok, maybe this is a better question:

I want to save a bot program I have written to use tomorrow. How do I do this?
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DG

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #85 on: October 16, 2011, 01:23:47 pm »
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File/Save Players, will let you save the players to file. File/Load Players will add all the players from the file into the simulator.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 01:28:29 pm by DG »
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DG

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #86 on: October 16, 2011, 01:28:07 pm »
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At the moment I'm creating problems for myself through the interface by opening more than one edit window for a bot. Changes are then going into one version and not the other, or perhaps not being saved at all. Could the interface please be changed to either only open one window for a bot (and activate if opened again) and/or show the opened edit windows as tabs.
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Geronimoo

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #87 on: October 16, 2011, 05:57:24 pm »
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At the moment I'm creating problems for myself through the interface by opening more than one edit window for a bot. Changes are then going into one version and not the other, or perhaps not being saved at all. Could the interface please be changed to either only open one window for a bot (and activate if opened again) and/or show the opened edit windows as tabs.
That seems awkward. I'll fix it so you can only edit one at a time.
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Raggedjoe

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #88 on: October 17, 2011, 07:18:12 am »
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Thanks Geronimo, I hadn't been saving correctly lol :D

When do you expect the Hinderland cards to be up? Are you waiting for the whole set?

Also, are you working on/considering letting the user to test buy conditions? It might be tricky for more complex programs, but it would be a great troubleshooting tool, especially for games with, say, Goons, to easily check your extra buys are being done correctly.

Edit: I also can't get Apprentice to be played how I think it should be. Could you share how it is programmed?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 07:22:08 am by Raggedjoe »
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Geronimoo

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #89 on: October 17, 2011, 07:52:36 am »
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Thanks Geronimo, I hadn't been saving correctly lol :D

When do you expect the Hinderland cards to be up? Are you waiting for the whole set?

Also, are you working on/considering letting the user to test buy conditions? It might be tricky for more complex programs, but it would be a great troubleshooting tool, especially for games with, say, Goons, to easily check your extra buys are being done correctly.

Edit: I also can't get Apprentice to be played how I think it should be. Could you share how it is programmed?

I have programmed the spoiled Hinterlands card, but I'm still testing them. I might release in the coming days.

If you want to check if your bot works as intended, just examine a few Sample Games (this is also how I do it, so I don't really see a need for a separate testing option).

If you want to see the play rules of the cards, go to my blog:

http://dominionsimulator.wordpress.com/

Here's Apprentice's play rules (which I know are far from optimal, but these give decent results while keeping it simple):
http://dominionsimulator.wordpress.com/play-rules/alchemy/apprentice/
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Qvist

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Re: Dominion Simulator available for download!
« Reply #90 on: November 09, 2011, 10:07:32 am »
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I just looked into this great simulator. Kudos, I like it very much.
Especially the conditions you can add for the buy priority are very quick to setup.

But I have a suggestion too. I'm referring to this:
There really needs to be a way to set card trashing priority. For action heavy strategies and all that. I can't imagine this would be that hard to implement, but of course I know almost nothing about programming. Couldn't you just make a button (similar to Chapel's playstrategy button) and ask the user to set the trash priority? Have it set to whatever the default is normally, and then just reset the variable, right?
Might do this, but I'd need a compelling reason. Please give me a good example where this would be useful.

It would be great to define or modify the Trash and Discard Priority. I just tried several strategies and realised that Fool's Gold Trash Priority is too low.

For example:
Code: [Select]
*** Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1)'s turn 10 ***
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1)'s cards in Hand: [Fool's Gold, Fool's Gold, Fool's Gold, Steward, Fool's Gold]
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) plays Steward
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) trashes a Fool's Gold
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) trashes a Fool's Gold
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) plays Fool's Gold
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$1
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) plays Fool's Gold
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$4
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) has $5 to spend and 1 buy
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) buys a Fool's Gold
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) shuffles deck
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) draws 5 cards
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1)'s cards in Hand: [Fool's Gold, Copper, Fool's Gold, Copper, Fool's Gold

The same goes with the Discard Priority:
Code: [Select]
** Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1)'s turn 12 ***
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1)'s cards in Hand: [Steward, Fool's Gold, Fool's Gold, Vault, Copper]
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) plays Vault
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) draws 2 cards
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1)'s cards in Hand: [Steward, Fool's Gold, Fool's Gold, Copper, Copper, Province]
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) discards a Steward
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$1
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) discards a Province
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$1
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) discards a Copper
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$1
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) discards a Copper
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$1
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) discards a Fool's Gold
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$1
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) discards a Fool's Gold
... Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) gets +$1
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) has $6 to spend and 1 buy
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) buys a Fool's Gold
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) shuffles deck
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1) draws 5 cards
Fool's Gold + Steward + Vault + Mint(Plr 1)'s cards in Hand: [Copper, Copper, Fool's Gold, Fool's Gold, Fool's Gold]

Best would be: A Trash & Discard Priority list in the same way you implemented the Buy Priority list.
But at least it would be great to include: If a card is in the buy rules, don't trash it!

kn1tt3r

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #91 on: November 11, 2011, 08:13:56 am »
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I cannot start it right now (blocked at workplace), but have you Mint/Fool's Gold implemented? According to Council Room it's one of the very best opening combos available (http://councilroom.com/openings)...
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Qvist

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #92 on: November 11, 2011, 09:20:47 am »
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That was my intention. It works quite well. But then I tried to make it better for 4/3 openings. Steward would work best I think, but it doesn't work. It trashes Fool's Gold although it is in the buy rules.

Davio

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #93 on: December 01, 2011, 10:28:07 am »
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Does the Simulator have a "play on" functionality?

If not, I would really like it.

If the Simulator always starts from the beginning, it doesn't get a lot of the interesting decisions we have to make, like CCCS-Salvager, or Familiar/Chapel with Black Market.

It would be really useful if we could enter a game state and let the simulator run from there so we can analyze different branches of a decision we're faced with.
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Fabian

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #94 on: December 01, 2011, 11:16:31 am »
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I haven't thought about it like that before, but I really agree. A lot of the things I wish I could get answered through simulations happen later on in the game, not as part of a carefully formulated strategy from turn 1. I imagine it's no small task to implement, but I think it would definitely be cool.
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DStu

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #95 on: December 01, 2011, 12:45:28 pm »
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I imagine it's no small task to implement, but I think it would definitely be cool.

I think in rspeer's Dominiate that can be done in changing 4 lines of code. (At least defining the deck, and then draw a random hand. Think's like played Tacticians, Schemes etc from last turn are a lot more difficult of course).
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 12:49:32 pm by DStu »
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DG

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #96 on: December 01, 2011, 02:10:54 pm »
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It would also be nice to play as a human against a simulated strategy. However I imagine this moves the tool away from being a mere simulator and would also be a great deal of work.
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Geronimoo

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #97 on: December 01, 2011, 04:57:09 pm »
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It would also be nice to play as a human against a simulated strategy. However I imagine this moves the tool away from being a mere simulator and would also be a great deal of work.

Yes, it's a lot of work ;)

GUI is annoying...
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pst

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #98 on: February 04, 2012, 06:40:09 am »
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If buying the last card will end the game in a loss then the simulator will not do it. SUICIDE is printed as explanation.

But in other situations the simulator can commit suicide. At least I've seen it happily deal out the last Curse, even if that is a losing three-piling move, and I just confirmed that that is still so.

The suicide detection is made by suicideIfBuys, and even though I'm not a Java person (nor a Java Man!) it seems to me it only looks at the VPs of the very card it's considering to buy before (not) three-piling. So it might avoid three-piling with Border Villages for example, even if it then would gain a Duchy for the win, right?
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DG

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Re: Geronimoo's Dominion Simulator: the ultimate simulation tool
« Reply #99 on: February 04, 2012, 08:57:14 am »
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Without looking at your specific example I'm pretty sure the general answer is yes. The simulator usually makes single decisions and will miss some end game combinations. Unfortunately there are so many situations that would need to be coded into the software that it would be very time consuming to correct (in this version of the software). If a user knows that a significant purchasing problem is clouding the results then extra purchase conditions can often be added to a script as a solution.

To give another example, if the bot had 38 cards with gardens in the deck, it would not realise that buying the last province + peddlar would narrowly win. It would first evaluate the first buy with a 38 card deck, probably not buy the last province (suicide), and would then evaluate the second buy and might not have enough coins to spend for the province.
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