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Author Topic: The best possible deck  (Read 2787 times)

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Biderman

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The best possible deck
« on: January 14, 2012, 11:43:16 am »
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This actually happened IRL, but my opp resigned..

What is the best possible deck setup?

Hint: Infinite VPs is awesome.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 11:46:23 am by Biderman »
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Davio

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Re: The best possible deck
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 12:00:35 pm »
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Well...a 5-card hand of KC-KC-Monument-Monument-Monument gains you 9 VP every turn for an infinite amount of turns...

Maybe you can come up with something more contrived that uses Goons and Ambassador, but for that to work perfectly, you'd need an opponent that plays Lighthouse or reveals Moat so the pile doesn't disappear into his deck.
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Biderman

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Re: The best possible deck
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 01:18:58 pm »
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Well...a 5-card hand of KC-KC-Monument-Monument-Monument gains you 9 VP every turn for an infinite amount of turns...

Maybe you can come up with something more contrived that uses Goons and Ambassador, but for that to work perfectly, you'd need an opponent that plays Lighthouse or reveals Moat so the pile doesn't disappear into his deck.

Crazy as it seems this is based of a friends actual game. There is a way to actually ensure infinite VPs
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DrHades

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Re: The best possible deck
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 02:32:46 pm »
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Good old KC-Goons-Masquerade combo + Bishop, Ambassador or Monument. Ambassador works only with Goons, but Bishop and Monument works with other discard-to-3 attacks. This gives you VPs and takes nothing from the supply and also keeps your opponent in permanent lock so he cannot end the game himself (other then resign of course)...

Edit: Ouch! Bishop cannot work, because I would want to play it after Masquerade...Monument and Ambassador should work fine.

Edit2: Not sure about Ambassador now...but Monument works  ;D
« Last Edit: January 14, 2012, 02:37:06 pm by DrHades »
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WanderingWinder

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Re: The best possible deck
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2012, 02:38:02 pm »
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Good old KC-Goons-Masquerade combo + Bishop, Ambassador or Monument. Ambassador works only with Goons, but Bishop and Monument works with other discard-to-3 attacks. This gives you VPs and takes nothing from the supply and also keeps your opponent in permanent lock so he cannot end the game himself (other then resign of course)...

Edit: Ouch! Bishop cannot work, because I would want to play it after Masquerade...Monument and Ambassador should work fine.


Ambassador doesn't work either... you can't actually buy anything extra and return it without risking breaking the lock. Must be monument

DrHades

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Re: The best possible deck
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2012, 02:47:08 pm »
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Good old KC-Goons-Masquerade combo + Bishop, Ambassador or Monument. Ambassador works only with Goons, but Bishop and Monument works with other discard-to-3 attacks. This gives you VPs and takes nothing from the supply and also keeps your opponent in permanent lock so he cannot end the game himself (other then resign of course)...

Edit: Ouch! Bishop cannot work, because I would want to play it after Masquerade...Monument and Ambassador should work fine.


Ambassador doesn't work either... you can't actually buy anything extra and return it without risking breaking the lock. Must be monument

Well, I'm really not sure. How about this:

I trash out all the Coppers and Curses so my opponent can really do nothing at all (if you assume an infinite number of Coppers as Donald once said, then infinite points is even a less of a problem).

Then in every turn I return 2 Estates with Ambassador (not KCed), thus giving my opponent the only card he has. KCed Masquerade brings it back to me, I buy one Estate, repeat.

As I said - I am really not sure, but this might work, right?  ;D

Edit: This of course need some extra village and +cards, but any cantrip and KC will do the trick too...
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Davio

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Re: The best possible deck
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2012, 03:36:17 pm »
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If this would've happened in real life, DrHades, it would be astonishing, and sort of suspicious. :)
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Biderman

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Re: The best possible deck
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2012, 08:27:37 am »
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Believe it or not DrHades has it. Will's deck was in fact KC, KC, Goons, Masquerade, Monument o_o
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jomini

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Re: The best possible deck
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2012, 10:59:32 am »
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There are a lot of variations for these:

KC,KC,Monument, militia, masq and nothing else.

Each turn nets you three points and trashes the other guy's hand (completely) and deck (eventually). Once this is set up only duration or reaction cards (notably moat and less notably horse traders and tunnel) can stop it.

Slightly fewer points per turn, still destroys the other guy's deck - but is only a 3 card combo - KC/KC/goons/masq. Once you destroy the other player's deck, you can buy one copper, masq it over, trash whatever is passed back to you, and trash your copper when it comes back. You can keep this going until you run out of 6 coin (or less) cards to buy & burn.



KC/KC/militia/masq/bishop will likely eventually work. Late game you have an opponent with a deck consisting of  nothing (having used KC/KC/militia/masq), you buy a bishop, and they buy a copper. You play KC->KC-> militia -> bishop your masq (+2 points) and then bishop nothing twice (+2 points), you buy a masq. They buy a second copper. You play KC/KC/militia (like normal) and then triple play the masq. You pass your bishop, and trash one copper. You pass nothing and trash a second copper, you pass nothing and trash the bishop. You buy a bishop and repeat the cycle. Eventually you will run out of bishops or masqs but is awfully hard to sock away 40 or more points with bishop before I can pin you (especially as I can trash estates & coppers whenever you use a bishop)/



This is the strongest simple pin attack of which I know, but it has no innate VP gain. If there are no chip gaining cards, native village, or islands this will almost invariably win once you hit it (you can pile copper & curses estates late game after a very long time & win).
KC/KC/masq/nobles/outpost

Play as:
KC -> KC -> nobles (do whatever) -> Outpost -> Masq (trash 3 cards from their hand/deck).
KC/outpost stays on the board
Play outpost turn as:
Nobles (actions) -> KC -> masq (trash 2 cads from their hand/deck)


This cannot be defeated by reactions (tunnel, horse traders, moat) and burns through decks quicker if the opponent is doing something like double tactician with card gainers or scrying pool/haven to try to prolong the game.

The strongest  combo I know is:
Scheme/masq/outpost/monument/KC/KC/KC

Play this as: KC->Scheme-> KC -> KC -> outpost -> monument -> masq. Net results - burns 3 cards & gains 3 VP.
Return to the top of the deck KC/KC/Scheme. Keep on the board KC/outpost.

Outpost turn is played as KC -> KC -> Scheme -> monument -> masq. burns 2 cards & gains 3 VP.

Return to the top of the deck KC/KC/Scheme. Total gain all 5 cards burned from your opponent's hand & you gain 6 VP. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Remember though, all of these pins have one turn of vulnerability where if the victim plays a masq, they have to trade over a high value card for whatever garbage the victim sends. Something like double tactician/masq can keep the pin from working indefinitely. Likewise goons or some other hand reducer can hit and delay the combo indefinitely (a strong scrying pool deck can hose these pins). Quite arguably a deck of NV/Bridge/TR is more powerful as it does not require an "attack" that can disrupt the combo so easily.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 12:04:16 pm by jomini »
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