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Author Topic: Altered starting conditions  (Read 8645 times)

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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Altered starting conditions
« Reply #25 on: December 15, 2015, 11:46:49 pm »
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What is the reason for heirlooms making you start with a 9-card deck?

Gubump

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Re: Altered starting conditions
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2015, 07:54:26 am »
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What is the reason for heirlooms making you start with a 9-card deck?

Two of your Coppers are removed, but only one Heirlooms is added.
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tristan

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Re: Altered starting conditions
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2015, 07:54:29 am »
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Quote
About the wording, I think you should change it. In decks with Masquerade, Thief and Ambassador you can end up with two Savings.
I still don't think it's worth the wording. You can't Ambassador it because it's not in the supply.
Thieving it takes considerable luck (and an opponent willing to buy Thief in the first place :P). With Masquerade it's your own fault if you choose to pass that as your card. And besides, 2 Savings is essentially just an extra copper per turn, until you finally need both.
You are of course right about Ambassador. About Masquerade, in the middlegame Savings can actually become a liability so it will be passed.
Furthermore there is Venture. With Gubump's version you have to decide immediately whether you wanna save or spend Savings whereas with your version you can postpone the decision.
I do not think that this makes much sense, from a thematic or mechanical perspective.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 07:55:40 am by tristan »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Altered starting conditions
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2015, 03:17:35 pm »
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What is the reason for heirlooms making you start with a 9-card deck?

Two of your Coppers are removed, but only one Heirlooms is added.
um, yeah
What I was asking is why two coppers were removed when only one card was added...

GeneralRamos

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Re: Altered starting conditions
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2015, 03:24:24 pm »
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What is the reason for heirlooms making you start with a 9-card deck?
Two of your Coppers are removed, but only one Heirlooms is added.
um, yeah
What I was asking is why two coppers were removed when only one card was added...

You're answering your own question. Because the point of this as an alt copper is to mess with the normal starting buy conditions. It keeps you at $7 total to spend, but alters the the shuffle placement.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Altered starting conditions
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2015, 07:17:20 pm »
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What is the reason for heirlooms making you start with a 9-card deck?
Two of your Coppers are removed, but only one Heirlooms is added.
um, yeah
What I was asking is why two coppers were removed when only one card was added...

You're answering your own question. Because the point of this as an alt copper is to mess with the normal starting buy conditions. It keeps you at $7 total to spend, but alters the the shuffle placement.

No, it doesn't keep you at "$7 total to spend".  Since you still draw 5 cards total each turn, it puts you significantly higher than $7 over two turns.  Not only is it possible to draw this pseudo-Silver on both opening turns, you could also end up drawing your opening buy.  This has been discussed already and I get that it's the point, but it makes the opening significantly swingier.
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tristan

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Re: Altered starting conditions
« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2015, 02:33:53 am »
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To illustrate eHalcyon's point, if Heirlooms just substituted one Copper you the possible opening moves would be 2-6, 3-5, 4-4. This is still too opening-changing for my taste but Heirlooms substituting two Coppers is even more radicall:

You could e.g. start with 6$, buy Gold and Heirlooms is trashed; draw 3 Estates, Copper and Gold on your second turn and thus have 4$. The probability to open 6-4 is pretty small (1/42: chance to open with 6$ is only 5/42 and chance to draw the Gold on turn 2 is 1/5) but it illustrates the increased opening volatility.

It is most likely to open with 4-4.

If you open with 5 Coppers (1/21) you could draw (1/6) and play that 5$ card as well as Heirlooms on turn 2 .

If you open with Heirloom, three Coppers and an Estate which is not that unlikely you have to trash the Heirlooms but have a chance to play the 5$ card on turn 2. If you did not draw it chances are high that you draw a Copper so you can at least buy a Silver.

I find it hard to imagine a situation in which you would not wanna trash Heirlooms for a 5$ Action card.
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