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Author Topic: Combo: Scheme/Herbalist  (Read 2725 times)

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Markov Chain

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Combo: Scheme/Herbalist
« on: January 13, 2012, 10:38:50 pm »
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The Scheme lets you take back an action (and allows you to play another action this turn, so you can use the other half of the combo), and the Herbalist lets you take back a treasure.  These work well together because you can choose the pair.

The most obvious use is to take back the Herbalist with a good treasure, which increases its value.   With Scheme/Herbalist/Gold, you will be rich for three turns.  With Scheme/Herbalist/Potion, you can use the Potion three times, and at least the first two will come with a +Buy so that you can get a Vineyard/Transmute and something else.

A less common use is to get the right treasure/action pair with a trash-for-benefit action.   One of the recommended Hinterlands/Alchemy sets includes Apprentice and IGG; if you draw the IGG after Apprenticing something else and have Scheme/Herbalist, you can Apprentice the IGG next turn to draw five cards.  If you are taking back a Spice Merchant, you can take back the Copper that it wants to trash.  At the end of the game, you can use a Gold this turn and then take back Remodel/Gold for next turn.
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Jimmmmm

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Re: Combo: Scheme/Herbalist
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2012, 10:50:45 pm »
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A few Schemes would be a good addition to an Alchemist/Herbalist deck.
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Glooble

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Re: Combo: Scheme/Herbalist
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 07:15:42 am »
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This is especially helpful in a vineyards rush, since the scheme and herbalist piles are so cheap you actually don't mind some terminal coppers.
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DaveS

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Re: Combo: Scheme/Herbalist
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2020, 02:57:44 am »
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You've played: Scheme, Herbalist and a treasure.

If you "discard from play" the Herbalist, you trigger the clean up effects of both the Scheme and the Herbalist itself. What should the deck order be?  Treasure on top or Herbalist on top?  Or does the player choose since it seems that both effects happen simultaneously?

This could matter if you top deck 4 or more cards after those 2.
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Chris is me

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Re: Combo: Scheme/Herbalist
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2020, 07:13:09 am »
+3

So uh, is this a combo? You're just saying "one card lets you do one thing and the other lets you do another thing. Occasionally you want to do both!"

Very few cases where you ever want Herbalist's effect, even fewer when you would want Herbalists effect *because of Scheme*.

You generally don't want to topdeck your payload, because that's two cards that aren't draw or actions. You're much more likely to dud.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 07:14:13 am by Chris is me »
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DaveS

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Re: Combo: Scheme/Herbalist
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2020, 11:20:27 am »
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Hey Chris thanks for the reply.  I agree; I can't think of a scenario where this would be a smart thing to do.  But my question is a rules question not a strategy question.  I'm building an app to play and so need it to follow dem rules.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Combo: Scheme/Herbalist
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2020, 12:52:00 pm »
+2

You've played: Scheme, Herbalist and a treasure.

If you "discard from play" the Herbalist, you trigger the clean up effects of both the Scheme and the Herbalist itself. What should the deck order be?  Treasure on top or Herbalist on top?  Or does the player choose since it seems that both effects happen simultaneously?

This could matter if you top deck 4 or more cards after those 2.

You get to choose the order. Any time 2 things trigger at the same time for the same player, that player can choose the order.

And welcome to the forums!
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Titandrake

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Re: Combo: Scheme/Herbalist
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2020, 02:20:05 pm »
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Ah, 2012 strategy. A simpler time, when we had no idea wtf we were doing.

To be serious, the answer we'd use now is, "if you want to draw an action-treasure combo, just get a lot of actions and draw the treasure you want, instead of topdecking it, because topdecking it increases risk that you dud"
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GendoIkari

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Re: Combo: Scheme/Herbalist
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2020, 03:03:37 pm »
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lol I didn't notice the date on the thread.
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Jack Rudd

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Re: Combo: Scheme/Herbalist
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2020, 04:48:02 pm »
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Edge case: the Treasure in question is Crown.
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DaveS

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Re: Combo: Scheme/Herbalist
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2020, 05:21:10 pm »
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You get to choose the order. Any time 2 things trigger at the same time for the same player, that player can choose the order.

And welcome to the forums!

Thank you, sir.  I've needed to add a simultaneously-effect-resolution mechanism to my app for a while now.  I guess now is the time.  This is the first I have come across that seems to matter.  All others would just change the order in discards which, of course, doesn't matter (except for the relatively trivial matter of what top discard is exposed.)
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Wizard_Amul

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Re: Combo: Scheme/Herbalist
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2020, 05:50:12 pm »
+1


You get to choose the order. Any time 2 things trigger at the same time for the same player, that player can choose the order.

And welcome to the forums!

Thank you, sir.  I've needed to add a simultaneously-effect-resolution mechanism to my app for a while now.  I guess now is the time.  This is the first I have come across that seems to matter.  All others would just change the order in discards which, of course, doesn't matter (except for the relatively trivial matter of what top discard is exposed.)

Actually, what you discarded on top can sometimes matter a lot. If you have too many terminal actions in your deck at the start of the game (e.g., 2 moats) and your opponent knows what action(s) you didn't get to play, they know not to expect those actions until the next shuffle, sometimes changing their turn significantly. The online implementation of Dominion doesn't let you choose what order to discard cards, and sometimes your discard pile will show a card you really didn't want it to show.
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