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[cyberkev63]

iPad:
https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=948405722

Android:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.makingfun.dominion

[Harley_Beckett]

And on my birthday too!

[LastFootnote]

And on my birthday too!

Happy birthday!

[Beyond Awesome]

I played two games on my Samsung Tablet. Same thing, but only more frustrating because everything is smaller. It also sometimes lag. Honestly, the tablet versions make the problems of MF Dominion even more profound.

On another note, the first thing I really wanted to do was actually play bots which is weird because I hate playing bots. But, I kept thinking to myself: Man this app F**ing sucks, if I were to bring my tablet with me, I can't play Dominion. Keep in mind, that my tablet only has wi-fi and no 4G. So, yah. So, I guess it's okay if I'm in a Starbucks and don't have my laptop, but otherwise, just play on your desktop. Like really, it's just better being able to play on the desktop. The fact that it does not have an offline mode really sucks.

[sc0UT]

Feedback on BGG
https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/48254/app-release-dominion-has-been-released-seriously-g

[Beyond Awesome]

Feedback on BGG
https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/48254/app-release-dominion-has-been-released-seriously-g

Yup, seems the casual gamer (the people they really need to sell this too) think the app is total garbage.


The worse thing is that people kept telling them over and over that the app needed to offer offline play. I warned MF that people would not be happy. 

[Burning Skull]

Feedback on BGG
https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/48254/app-release-dominion-has-been-released-seriously-g

Yup, seems the casual gamer (the people they really need to sell this too) think the app is total garbage.


The worse thing is that people kept telling them over and over that the app needed to offer offline play. I warned MF that people would not be happy. 

Feels sad to read these reviews from bgg folks. Though it was obvious long ago that Goko/MF implementation was only consumable for people already hooked on Dominion.
It feels like if they don't do anything radical (reduce the prices sevenfold, allow offline mode, use the Dark side of the Force to turn current GUI to something more appealing to potential new customers, implement Adventures tomorrow), they just go broke in no time. And that would be truly terrible

[pst]

Feedback on BGG
https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/48254/app-release-dominion-has-been-released-seriously-g

Yup, seems the casual gamer (the people they really need to sell this too) think the app is total garbage.


The worse thing is that people kept telling them over and over that the app needed to offer offline play. I warned MF that people would not be happy. 

Feels sad to read these reviews from bgg folks. Though it was obvious long ago that Goko/MF implementation was only consumable for people already hooked on Dominion.
It feels like if they don't do anything radical (reduce the prices sevenfold, allow offline mode, use the Dark side of the Force to turn current GUI to something more appealing to potential new customers, implement Adventures tomorrow), they just go broke in no time. And that would be truly terrible

Yeah, if they thought "we" were negative, now they are really getting it, from people who don't desperately want them to succeed, but can find some fun in watching it fail while they play better-implemented games that they like as much or more. (Disclaimer: It has happened a few times that people here have expressed a wish that MF would fail as quickly as possible so the license can be put in other hands, but that has not been common at all. I think that almost always critique here against MF instead has been coupled with a wish that they will succeed and often with a related frustration when they seem to take paths that won't lead to that.)

[werothegreat]

We did tell them $15 per expansion was ridiculous.

[jsh357]

I was initially surprised so many of the commenters are mentioning ads. I haven't noticed an ad in the game so long I forgot they were a thing. Seems like their presence makes a huge difference in the mobile audience's perception.

As mean as it sounds, my heart is sort of in the 'hope they crash and burn so someone else gets a shot' camp, though I'm not sure what the alternative is. Doubt Doug Z is interested in reviving isotropic and having no online Dominion would suck.

[markusin]

People are complaining about the Ducat system and how you can't buy the exact amount of Ducats to get what you want.

It seems people have a psychological aversion to leftover funds that cannot be spent. This should have been old news to MF based on feedback about the Gokoins.

[Infthitbox]

I was initially surprised so many of the commenters are mentioning ads. I haven't noticed an ad in the game so long I forgot they were a thing. Seems like their presence makes a huge difference in the mobile audience's perception.

As mean as it sounds, my heart is sort of in the 'hope they crash and burn so someone else gets a shot' camp, though I'm not sure what the alternative is. Doubt Doug Z is interested in reviving isotropic and having no online Dominion would suck.

I'm sure there are enough programmers in the community who would be willing to contribute to an unofficial online dominion if Making Fun's venture fails and no next official version appears. Certainly I would be willing to contribute. That seems a long way off though.

[markusin]

Did anyone notice angelkurisu(Chris Cieslik) of Asmadi games posted in that thread (Asmadi games is the publisher for Innovation)?

He mentions something about a chatroom lobby that doesn't allow blocking of spammers/harrassers. What's he talking about? I don't remember that on the current browser client.

[jsh357]

Did anyone notice angelkurisu(Chris Cieslik) of Asmadi games posted in that thread (Asmadi games is the publisher for Innovation)?

He mentions something about a chatroom lobby that doesn't allow blocking of spammers/harrassers. What's he talking about? I don't remember that on the current browser client.

He's right. There is a chat on the right side of the screen when you are seeking games or creating tables. If people are being jerks, you can't block them as of yet.

[sc0UT]

People do tend to give "feedback" more often when they are disappointed or frustrated. We don't know how many love Dominion 2.0 mobile and are willing to pay money for this. There are 20 votes so far (3.8 stars) for this game in the android app store.

[GendoIkari]

Dominion is the original deck-building card game that has won numerous awards and spawned an entire genre.

Wait a minute, there's an entire game that's been spawned from Dominion? Like, not just part of a game??

[LastFootnote]

Dominion is the original deck-building card game that has won numerous awards and spawned an entire genre.

Wait a minute, there's an entire game that's been spawned from Dominion? Like, not just part of a game??

It says "genre", not "game".

[jsh357]

People do tend to give "feedback" more often when they are disappointed or frustrated. We don't know how many love Dominion 2.0 mobile. There are 20 votes so far (3.8 stars) for this game in the android app store.

While that's true, it's hard to argue with the fact that the issues being complained about are things MF/Goko were informed of years ago by casual and hardcore fans alike. It stands to reason many players are simply grudgingly accepting these issues out of love for the game that already exists. The app is unlikely to attract new players with the blatant problems it has, which is bad news for everyone involved.

[sc0UT]

People do tend to give "feedback" more often when they are disappointed or frustrated. We don't know how many love Dominion 2.0 mobile and are willing to pay money for this. There are 20 votes so far (3.8 stars) for this game in the android app store.

While that's true, it's hard to argue with the fact that the issues being complained about are things MF/Goko were informed of years ago by casual and hardcore fans alike. It stands to reason many players are simply grudgingly accepting these issues out of love for the game that already exists. The app is unlikely to attract new players with the blatant problems it has, which is bad news for everyone involved.

I'm 100% with you!

[Kirian]

I cannot wait to see what Pocket Tactics has to say.

[pst]

Does the tablet version mention a version by the way? Is that 2.0.45? (The last one released oterhwise is still 2.0.44.2, and they have said that the next version would wait because they would like to offer that on tablets as well.)

[sc0UT]

No one on BGG complains about overheating and resource wasting at least. Well, the average game count is ONE...

[Kirian]

Feedback on BGG
https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/48254/app-release-dominion-has-been-released-seriously-g

Oh wow.  Just... wow.

Well, they can't say they weren't warned.  People who are addicted to the game have tons of issues; what could you expect from people who could just as readily play something else better and cheaper?

[GendoIkari]

Dominion is the original deck-building card game that has won numerous awards and spawned an entire genre.

Wait a minute, there's an entire game that's been spawned from Dominion? Like, not just part of a game??

It says "genre", not "game".

That makes way more sense than the way I misread it.

[LastFootnote]

I can totally understand Rio Grande Games wanting an app that worked cross-platform, but in hindsight it's a bad idea. The requirements of the user bases are completely different. In order for a mobile version to be successful, it needs offline play and cheap expansions. Desktop users want downloadable game logs, point counters, etc. I really wish the mobile version had just been licensed to some company that has experience making native mobile apps.

[SCSN]

Feedback on BGG
https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/48254/app-release-dominion-has-been-released-seriously-g

That thread clearly shows that f.ds has unreasonable expectations. Unreasonably low, that is.

[pst]

I can totally understand Rio Grande Games wanting an app that worked cross-platform, but in hindsight it's a bad idea. The requirements of the user bases are completely different. In order for a mobile version to be successful, it needs offline play and cheap expansions. Desktop users want downloadable game logs, point counters, etc. I really wish the mobile version had just been licensed to some company that has experience making native mobile apps.

Maybe they could offer cheaper expansions that are only available on those platforms, and maybe that you can only use with robots and with players who also have those cards, but for the full price you get cards you can use with any platform and that you can "share" with others you play with.

[sc0UT]

MF reply to the online requirement in the app store.

Unfortunately, a game with this much card logic needs to rely on a server connection.

That's so stupid!

[Beyond Awesome]

Does MF even go to BGG? Are they even aware of what the people are saying over there? I mean, these are the customers they really need to target. If they can't win over the casual audience, then they are screwed. Implementing Adventures will only get them so far, financially speaking.

My question is if MF Dominion fails, then what?

[jsh357]

MF reply to the online requirement in the app store.

Unfortunately, a game with this much card logic needs to rely on a server connection.

That's so stupid!

Their continuous reinforcement of this idea is kind of insulting. Are they just expecting people to buy that? I download standalone games with rules as complex as Dominion's all the time. They just don't want to admit they'd have to do more work to make the game work offline. I get that it could be a real issue since they're probably broke, but it's frustrating how they feed us this nonsense that anyone with experience in game development can tell you is a lie instead of just telling us like it is.

[GendoIkari]

MF reply to the online requirement in the app store.

Unfortunately, a game with this much card logic needs to rely on a server connection.

That's so stupid!

Yeah. I'm going to go ahead and say that Terra Mystica has way more logic and rules than Dominion. And that was implemented by some guy in Javascript, playable entirely offline.

[Beyond Awesome]

In the early 90s, twenty years ago, an offline version of Magic was released for the pc. It had all the expansions up to that point. I'm pretty sure Magic is more complex than Dominion

[Beyond Awesome]

Feedback on BGG
https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/48254/app-release-dominion-has-been-released-seriously-g

That thread clearly shows that f.ds has unreasonable expectations. Unreasonably low, that is.

At this point, most of us have given up having any sort of expectations.

[Watno]

Does the tablet version mention a version by the way? Is that 2.0.45? (The last one released oterhwise is still 2.0.44.2, and they have said that the next version would wait because they would like to offer that on tablets as well.)

It is 2.0.45.25.

[Watno]

Ridiculous

[sc0UT]

Does MF even go to BGG?

Jonah42 mentioned BGG in one of his posts in the MF forums. So, maybe.

MF reply to the online requirement in the app store.

Unfortunately, a game with this much card logic needs to rely on a server connection.

That's so stupid!

it's frustrating how they feed us this nonsense that anyone with experience in game development can tell you is a lie instead of just telling us like it is.

Sadly, it's a common phrase for online requirements since some years.
A popular example is EA's SimSity2013. They said, the servers would have to compute all the individual sims one by one what no PC could handle. Investigations by some hackers (I guess) showed that all of this was a lie, the servers did nearly nothing and the sims took always the shortest way from work to the next house. They never came back home after their first day at work LoL!

[sc0UT]

picture

Poor UI design. I didn't expect anything better for the mobile application as we still know it.

[jsh357]

Ridiculous

They're making great use of that valuable screen real estate

[Beyond Awesome]

Ridiculous
[/quote

I can't see the photo

[Watno]

MF reply to the online requirement in the app store.

Unfortunately, a game with this much card logic needs to rely on a server connection.

That's so stupid!

How is that even supposed to work? Their servers have so much more processing power than the user's devices that they can handle this complicated logic for hundreds of games at once?

[sc0UT]

MF reply to the online requirement in the app store.

Unfortunately, a game with this much card logic needs to rely on a server connection.

That's so stupid!

How is that even supposed to work? Their servers have so much more processing power than the user's devices that they can handle this complicated logic for hundreds of games at once?

Don't worry. You get connected with Titan and its 17,6 PetaFLOPS. Luckily the Heliumcooling system prevents the core from overheating.

[Kirian]

MF reply to the online requirement in the app store.

Unfortunately, a game with this much card logic needs to rely on a server connection.

That's so stupid!

How is that even supposed to work? Their servers have so much more processing power than the user's devices that they can handle this complicated logic for hundreds of games at once?

I'm willing to believe that a good AI would not easily run on a tablet.  See, for instance, Prismata.

This assumes the existence of a good AI within MF's systems, which is a laughable idea.

[Accatitippi]

Guys I've got the solution to fix MF's financial problems once and for all!
Join SerfBot@home today!

Considering how effective they are using resources client-side to run an user interface, I expect they're running at least a couple of supercomputers as servers.

[funkdoc]

annnnnnnd this is one of the reasons i have a problem with the concept of company loyalty & unconditional support: hearing harsh criticism early and doing something in response will prevent things like this from happening.

a lot of us saw this coming, at least those of us who don't live in the dominion bubble and actually know the wider landscape...

[Beyond Awesome]

annnnnnnd this is one of the reasons i have a problem with the concept of company loyalty & unconditional support: hearing harsh criticism early and doing something in response will prevent things like this from happening.

a lot of us saw this coming, at least those of us who don't live in the dominion bubble and actually know the wider landscape...

MF was told over and over again they needed the app to be offline. Lots of people told them at various stages, and they did not listen, and I know I made compelling arguments. I guess they don't believe people who tell them things in advance ex: adding animations to the game.  They did not fix the issue until it got out off beta despite what the beta testers told them.

[qmech]

I had to stop reading the BGG thread because people said that Dominion has been pushed out by all the later, better deckbuilders.

[GendoIkari]

I had to stop reading the BGG thread because people said that Dominion has been pushed out by all the later, better deckbuilders.

Am I looking at a different thread? I didn't see anything like that.

[jsh357]

I had to stop reading the BGG thread because people said that Dominion has been pushed out by all the later, better deckbuilders.

Am I looking at a different thread? I didn't see anything like that.

Page 5 has some of it. It's par for the course in any thread about Dominion outside this forum/reddit.

[SCSN]

What are those supposedly better deck builders? And which of them have a somewhat functional online implementation?

[Watno]

Mainly Ascension I think.

[iguanaiguana]

MF reply to the online requirement in the app store.

Unfortunately, a game with this much card logic needs to rely on a server connection.

That's so stupid!

Yeah. I'm going to go ahead and say that Terra Mystica has way more logic and rules than Dominion. And that was implemented by some guy in Javascript, playable entirely offline.

Also: Androminion

[jsh357]

What are those supposedly better deck builders? And which of them have a somewhat functional online implementation?

I played the Thunderstone Facebook app back when it was a thing. It was in many ways a better implementation of its source game than MF Dominion is. (Not saying Thunderstone is a better game. I haven't played a deckbuilder I'd consider better than Dominion)

[qmech]

I certainly didn't get to page 5.  This is about half way down the first page:

However, I think most folks are probably burned out on it by now. Plus, it's got some stiff competition from newer deckbuilders.

[Voltaire]

Hard to see anything but MF getting the reception they earned here, as much as I wish it weren't so.

[GendoIkari]

I certainly didn't get to page 5.  This is about half way down the first page:

However, I think most folks are probably burned out on it by now. Plus, it's got some stiff competition from newer deckbuilders.

Yeah I just missed that. It's only a couple comments though.

[Kirian]

What are those supposedly better deck builders? And which of them have a somewhat functional online implementation?

Both Ascension and Star Realms have functional online, pass-and-play, and offline AI play.  Mobile only, though.  Those are the big ones.

As games, they're significantly worse than Dominion from my perspective, but they're much easier to play casually--more luck-based, tactical, and opportunistic than Dominion.

[Kirian]

Feedback on BGG
https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/48254/app-release-dominion-has-been-released-seriously-g

LOOOOOOL

Edit: Actually did laugh, but glad to see this finally made it out

I want an innovation app!!! :whistle:

Isotropic is there! And I won't force them to take that one down.

Emphasis mine.  Oh snap, Chris.

Edit:  For those who don't know, angelkurisu is Chris Cieslik, designer of Innovation.  He has the same username here.

[Burning Skull]

The saddest part of it is that most of the people trying Dominion for the first time will now connect Dominion with it's current unsuccessful implementation and as a result will be lost for the game forever.

[Donald X.]

My question is if MF Dominion fails, then what?

What have you got?

[Accatitippi]

The saddest part of it is that most of the people trying Dominion for the first time will now connect Dominion with it's current unsuccessful implementation and as a result will be lost for the game forever.

...once more.

[markusin]

Feedback on BGG
https://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/48254/app-release-dominion-has-been-released-seriously-g

LOOOOOOL

Edit: Actually did laugh, but glad to see this finally made it out

I want an innovation app!!! :whistle:

Isotropic is there! And I won't force them to take that one down.

Emphasis mine.  Oh snap, Chris.

Edit:  For those who don't know, angelkurisu is Chris Cieslik, designer of Innovation.  He has the same username here.

He doesn't say "my", but the first time I read that I did feel like he implied Innovation was his game. I thought Carl Chudyk was the designer of Innovation. Chris has designed other games from Asmadi before though.

But as a primary representative of Innovation I assume he would have enough influence to push for the end of Isotropic Innovation.

And anyway the last expansion for Innovation isn't on Isotropic.

Edit: Also a bit funny how comparisons with Hearthstone's expansion prices are met with derision for Hearthstone. Understandable I guess, but consistent players of Hearthstone can get those expansions without paying any extra dollars.

We've had the conversation about appropriate pricing on the Dominion Online expansions before. I feel no need for me to enter any further into that discussion.

Edit 2: lol at all those saying stuff like "why should I pay so much for a bunch of 0's and 1's". Computer aided design software products are also a bunch of 0's and 1's but cost hundreds of dollars.

[blueblimp]

I found this amusing in the description:

Build up a powerful kingdom of knights, nobles and witches to conquer duchies and provinces.

It strikes me as a very de-eurogame-ized way to present the theme. Last I checked, you typically buy duchies and provinces, not conquer them.

Compare to this snippet from the IRL box's description:

You must race to get as much of the unclaimed land as possible, fending them off along the way. To do this you will hire minions, construct buildings, spruce up your castle, and fill the coffers of your treasury.

[Kirian]

http://www.pockettactics.com/news/ios-news/keep-an-eye-out-for-oceans-turning-to-blood-dominion-has-been-released-for-ipad-and-android-tablets/

[Limetime]

Worked great!
First I had to remake my account because it forgot it.
Then It crashed two games midway through
Overall 10/10

On a more serious note: It runs really smoothly but it crashed twice out of the three times I played it.

[markusin]

http://www.pockettactics.com/news/ios-news/keep-an-eye-out-for-oceans-turning-to-blood-dominion-has-been-released-for-ipad-and-android-tablets/

This basically sums up the feelings that people have with the mobile app. Online only and costly expansions are looked down upon, but when things actually work it's a playable version and Dominion, and we all want to play Dominion.

The BGG thread reports that the latest version of the game disables ads if you've purchased anything, including on the PC/browser version.

[ravi]

I played a bunch of games on the iPad app and it worlked great for me. Better than using goko on a browser (readable log and I can chat) . As I have no interest in offline play and I don't get ads because I bought the sets I have 0 problems (except maybe that I can't use MMF on it) . Too bad the vast majority of people care about the offline play. I'd much rather they work on Adventures than that but I'm guessing they are going to focus efforts on that now with all the bad reviews they are getting

[ashersky]

I gave it a shot.  I played back on isotropic, and then the first version of whatever it is we are complaining about (goko?).

Crazily enough, I remembered my goko logon and it worked, with my record and everything.  I played three games -- the first was base only and I opened Witch, my opponent resigned.  Second was base only and I won the BM+Chapel mirror with Throned Thiefs every turn.  Then I figured out how to seek without the own cards thing turned on and played a rousing game with Hagglers and Plats.

No crashes, no complaints.  The game looks and sounds exactly like it used to on goko, so that was...disappointing?  I don't know.  I guess after ignoring it for years, I figured it would have changed.

As for the pricing, seems steep.  I say seems, because really it isn't, right?  I mean, compared to the physical game, of which I own Seaside and Intrigue, the prices are fine.  It's just IAP sticker shock (which I probably won't get over, to be honest).

So, well, I got to play Dominion on my iPad for free without a problem.  That's gotta be a win, right?

[funkdoc]

re: other deckbuilders, yea thunderstone & ascension are some of the most obvious.  the anime maid one gets a lot of love from ppl who are into that whole thing. i also hear a good amount about the marvel & resident evil deckbuilders, though that may just be a function of who i know.

i think dominion's limit on actions is awesome for those of us who really want to grind a game, but a downer for people who just want to do cool shit without having to spend 10 minutes thinking about it first.  beyond that, novelty and stronger art/theming are the most obvious draws of other games for your typical boardgamer.

[Kirian]

I'm gonna say the same thing about pricing that I've said previously:  MF's pricing is competing not with the boxed cards (which is what they're trying to compare it to) but with IAP for other games.  Star Realms and Ascension are inferior games, yes... but the app cost is less than a quarter the cost of the printed copy.

The thing is, this is true for other games that are as good as Dominion (at least in some opinions).  Take, for instance, Kingdom Builder... it was $7 I think for the app, compared with around $40 for the box.  Splendor.  Galaxy Trucker.  Lords of Waterdeep.  Carcassone.  Ticket to Ride. Steam.  The list goes on.

Pricing the IAP at a third the cost of the boxed copy is a huge gamble.  Is Dominion's popularity so high  that charging around double the expected price can be profitable?

[thespaceinvader]

As for the pricing, seems steep.  I say seems, because really it isn't, right?  I mean, compared to the physical game, of which I own Seaside and Intrigue, the prices are fine.  It's just IAP sticker shock (which I probably won't get over, to be honest).

Thing is, though, people won't be comparing it to the physical game, they'll be comparing it to other game apps they can get, particularly other board game apps, at which point the price is absolutely hilariously high.  I could literally buy ALL of the board game apps and IAPs I've bought to date on my phone (admittedly not THAT many) twice over and still afford to order pizza with what it would cost to get all the Dominion Online IAPs.

[Voltaire]

So, well, I got to play Dominion on my iPad for free without a problem.  That's gotta be a win, right?

MF Dominion is like Scout - fine in isolation,  but fails miserably when compared to anything else.

[SCSN]

f.ds has unreasonable expectations. Unreasonably low, that is.

Case in point:

It runs really smoothly [....] it crashed twice out of the three times I played it.

[SCSN]

So, well, I got to play Dominion on my iPad for free without a problem.  That's gotta be a win, right?

MF Dominion is like Scout - fine in isolation,  but fails miserably when compared to anything else.

With DavidTheDavid being their very own Roadrunner.

[markusin]

So, well, I got to play Dominion on my iPad for free without a problem.  That's gotta be a win, right?

MF Dominion is like Scout - fine in isolation,  but fails miserably when compared to anything else.

With DavidTheDavid being their very own Roadrunner.

Wait, Roadrunner is cool overall, isn't he? Maybe a bit annoying at times, but not condescending or anything as far as I recall.

[iguanaiguana]

So, well, I got to play Dominion on my iPad for free without a problem.  That's gotta be a win, right?

MF Dominion is like Scout - fine in isolation,  but fails miserably when compared to anything else.

With DavidTheDavid being their very own Roadrunner.

Wait, Roadrunner is cool overall, isn't he? Maybe a bit annoying at times, but not condescending or anything as far as I recall.

I'm going to attempt mysticism here and offer a positive interpretation of SCSN's joke.

What he clearly meant to say was:

"Just as Roadrunner, lovable though he is, has a ridiculously inflated opinion of the card scout, so also is the lovable DavidTheDavid ridiculously positive about MakingFun."

[JW]

"Just as Roadrunner, lovable though he is, has a ridiculously inflated opinion of the card scout, so also is the lovable DavidTheDavid ridiculously positive about MakingFun."

Scout is Roadrunner's employer!

[cactus]

Charging more that the competition is not problematic to me in and of itself. The problem is if you charge a premium and then deliver a sub-premium product ...

Take Slitherine (the war-game app developer) as an analogy instead of the always-cited Ascension:
Slitherine charges a high price for their games (both initial purchase and expansions). Even when they discount they're still double the price of most other war-games that look similar in the App Store. But I bought and played one of the Slitherine games when it was on special (Battle Acadamy 1) when it was on special and I was really delighted by it. The interface worked - there were no glitches - the art and effects were nice and understated - nothing about the design got in the way of enjoying the game. The game felt premium and I felt I'd got value for money. Slitherine I think must be doing OK financially because they release new products fairly frequently.

Now compare Slitherine to MF. MF would like to charge a premium (fine by me) but they make a whole lot of decisions that align themselves with lowest common denominator developers in the App Store. They put google ads in their games. They play funny b*ggers with their in app currency. So now el cheapo purchases won't buy from them because they're charging so much. And people who are happy to spend for a good product don't want to touch them because their product feels low end and crappy.

[Roadrunner7671]

I'm about 12 hours late to the party (so still fashionably late).

But YESSSSS! WAHOOOOOO!

[Roadrunner7671]

Oh, and it looks like I'm a joke now. Cool, I'm famous.

[Roadrunner7671]

So, well, I got to play Dominion on my iPad for free without a problem.  That's gotta be a win, right?

MF Dominion is like Scout - fine in isolation,  but fails miserably when compared to anything else.

I'm bidding my time...you just wait until I post my giant master plan on Scout. You just wait...

[ashersky]

As for the pricing, seems steep.  I say seems, because really it isn't, right?  I mean, compared to the physical game, of which I own Seaside and Intrigue, the prices are fine.  It's just IAP sticker shock (which I probably won't get over, to be honest).

Thing is, though, people won't be comparing it to the physical game, they'll be comparing it to other game apps they can get, particularly other board game apps, at which point the price is absolutely hilariously high.  I could literally buy ALL of the board game apps and IAPs I've bought to date on my phone (admittedly not THAT many) twice over and still afford to order pizza with what it would cost to get all the Dominion Online IAPs.

I was sort of admitting that by mentioning sticker shock.  I'm not buying the sets because they are too expensive for what I expect/want to pay for an app version of anything.  I think that's what most people are saying will happen, so we all agree there.

I'm trying to give them the benefit of a thought out reason for why the pricing is what it is, even if that "reason" is flawed when it comes to viability on the market.  I think they fear that everyone will just do what I did -- log in and play with someone else's cards -- so they are trying to make up for it.

We can all list the better ways of doing this (and have): lower prices for one-time unlocks, ongoing monthly subscriptions for access to all cards, etc.  Those, to me (and others), seem like better ways to get and keep a fanbase AND tackle the phantom fear of freeloader players.

[Throwaway_bicycling]

My question is if MF Dominion fails, then what?

What have you got?

Fun fact: I only joined f.ds last January to raise pretty much exactly this question, but the hope then was that everything would be fixed by now. I have to say, then I was expecting the company to fail imminently, so that the rights could potentially be available at very modest cost, and since there was/is a working competing version of at least the underlying game engine that something anyway was possible. Not clear whether any of that is on the table now. It was also clear that there was some need for additional capital, but, again, not very clear how much. Today, same question.

Probably should be a new thread for this if it's worth having a thread at a all.

[Infthitbox]

Played a few games on the android app just now. Its reasonable; works exactly the same as the desktop client for me, except slower (not sure what the bottleneck was, but I played while on sketchy wireless vs. my usual wired internet for the desktop client). I found myself deliberately slowing down to avoid misclicks because of the screen size and touch interface. I only played bots because I didn't want to subject a human to the necessarily slower play that the tablet demands. Playing a 25-30 turn all-action "Bishop all the cards" deck took almost 40 minutes against ConquererBot. It didn't crash, I had no trouble logging in, and playing with the log up didn't make the screen prohibitively small.

For reference, I played on a 10.1 inch Samsung Galaxy Tab III. If I have some time later, I might be able to test on an iPad mini, which I expect to go... not as well.

[Beyond Awesome]

Two star rating on iOS and Three Stars on Droid.

[Limetime]

I played some more games with it. Worked a lot better!

[Kirian]

Two star rating on iOS and Three Stars on Droid.

Ouch.  2 stars on iOS is a death knell.

[LastFootnote]

Two star rating on iOS and Three Stars on Droid.

Ouch.  2 stars on iOS is a death knell.

Well, they have only themselves to blame, I guess. Seems like they bit off more than their outsourced dev team could chew.

At this point it's hard to care. I can still play on my laptop, and if Making Fun does someday go bankrupt or stop supporting Dominion, I think I've gotten my money's worth over the years.

[ben_king]

Does MF even go to BGG? Are they even aware of what the people are saying over there? I mean, these are the customers they really need to target. If they can't win over the casual audience, then they are screwed. Implementing Adventures will only get them so far, financially speaking.

My question is if MF Dominion fails, then what?

In the worst case, if Making Fun fails and DougZ doesn't want to re-open Isotropic, I've been working the last few months on building my own client (which will never see the light of day otherwise for copyright reasons).  It's still a ways from being ready, but if worst comes to worst, I'd happily open source it for the community.

[Beyond Awesome]

That looks really nice.

[GendoIkari]

Does MF even go to BGG? Are they even aware of what the people are saying over there? I mean, these are the customers they really need to target. If they can't win over the casual audience, then they are screwed. Implementing Adventures will only get them so far, financially speaking.

My question is if MF Dominion fails, then what?

In the worst case, if Making Fun fails and DougZ doesn't want to re-open Isotropic, I've been working the last few months on building my own client (which will never see the light of day otherwise for copyright reasons).  It's still a ways from being ready, but if worst comes to worst, I'd happily open source it for the community.

One thing I'll say is that the only thing I didn't like about Isotropic was the fact that it used a separate list of cards from your hand when asking things like "what do you want to pass". You already have the cards in your hand, you should be able to click them instead of clicking on a card name in another list.

[werothegreat]

grsbmd: I've uploaded better versions of most of those cards up onto the wiki.  Feel free to use them.

[Cave-o-sapien]

I've played a few games now on my iPad 4, and it's not bad, but it feels laggy, and that's with all animations turned off and the speed set to maximum. A few notable problems:

-- It doesn't always register "taps", which is problematic with some cards.
-- It's virtually impossible to play with the log visible. Enabling the log shrinks the remainder of the screen dramatically (including the button to re-hide the log)
-- It can't display an 11th Kingdom card on the first page. I was half way through one game with Young Witch before I realized that Prince was on the second page.

I give it 2.5/5 stars.

[GendoIkari]

-- It can't display an 11th Kingdom card on the first page. I was half way through one game with Young Witch before I realized that Prince was on the second page.

I... WHAT?? Um, wasn't this FINALLY fixed after YEARS of complaining about it? And now in their newest product they've reverted back to the old, terrible way?

[funkdoc]

interesting to see how often the BGG thread brings up the concern that games won't stay online in the long run, re: why offline play is so important to them.  that isn't something i recall seeing on here, but a salient point given MF's business "plan".

and another game designer called out donald on his sticking to overinflated prices for the mobile market.  we had that whole argument here, but hey it isn't just us!

more and more it feels like the endgame of all this is going to be some sort of unofficial port with P2P netplay, probably after all the expansions are done (if that ever happens lol)

[Deadlock39]

-- It can't display an 11th Kingdom card on the first page. I was half way through one game with Young Witch before I realized that Prince was on the second page.

I... WHAT?? Um, wasn't this FINALLY fixed after YEARS of complaining about it? And now in their newest product they've reverted back to the old, terrible way?

This is only fixed for wide screen resolutions in the new client. If you select a 4:3 resolution it still maxes out at 10 cards on the first page.

[Kirian]

and another game designer called out donald on his sticking to overinflated prices for the mobile market.  we had that whole argument here, but hey it isn't just us!

Eh, it appears that anyone at BGG can put a "Game Designer" tag on their profile, whether or not they've had anything published.  I wouldn't consider that opinion more useful than any one of us.  But it's not just him, it's just a ton of people unhappy with the price.

Edit:  Not to mention that Donald didn't set the online prices.

[GendoIkari]

-- It can't display an 11th Kingdom card on the first page. I was half way through one game with Young Witch before I realized that Prince was on the second page.

I... WHAT?? Um, wasn't this FINALLY fixed after YEARS of complaining about it? And now in their newest product they've reverted back to the old, terrible way?

This is only fixed for wide screen resolutions in the new client. If you select a 4:3 resolution it still maxes out at 10 cards on the first page.

Ugh. That's just terrible. Then again, so is having to set the client to a specific resolution that you can't change while in a game.

[Accatitippi]

and another game designer called out donald on his sticking to overinflated prices for the mobile market.  we had that whole argument here, but hey it isn't just us!

Eh, it appears that anyone at BGG can put a "Game Designer" tag on their profile, whether or not they've had anything published.  I wouldn't consider that opinion more useful than any one of us.  But it's not just him, it's just a ton of people unhappy with the price.

Edit:  Not to mention that Donald didn't set the online prices.

Actually, I believe you have to be listed as a designer for a game in BGG's database. Of course it can be a web-published unplaytested abandoned pile of giraffe dung, but if you click their banner it's pretty easy to find out. (hint: the smell)

[LastFootnote]

and another game designer called out donald on his sticking to overinflated prices for the mobile market.  we had that whole argument here, but hey it isn't just us!

Eh, it appears that anyone at BGG can put a "Game Designer" tag on their profile, whether or not they've had anything published.  I wouldn't consider that opinion more useful than any one of us.  But it's not just him, it's just a ton of people unhappy with the price.

Edit:  Not to mention that Donald didn't set the online prices.

Actually, I believe you have to be listed as a designer for a game in BGG's database. Of course it can be a web-published unplaytested abandoned pile of giraffe dung, but if you click their banner it's pretty easy to find out. (hint: the smell)

In this particular case, the guy doesn't even have games in the BGG database. He's just created a makeshift "Game Designr [sic]" badge out of a normal one.

[GendoIkari]

So one thing I'm unclear about... they're working on the website version at the same time, right? Will this website version be playable on a tablet? If so, then it just seems silly to have both options; when they both should be basically the same experience. If not, then why not? It's not like it's in Flash, so it should work...

[Limetime]

Website version doesn't work on tablet. IDK why but it doesn't

[DoomYoshi]

This is truly a failure of capitalism here. I think the reason it's online only is so you can't hack unlock the game. God forbid somebody play the campaigns without paying. Raise your hand if you bought the game for campaigns...

Although, the new update does have new art for the campaigns - instead of the same map for every act, now there are real maps. You still can't observe the maps without the splotchy shields all over them, and they still make no sense (rivers don't flow downstream, they bisect land only).

[Donald X.]

This is truly a failure of capitalism here. I think the reason it's online only is so you can't hack unlock the game. God forbid somebody play the campaigns without paying. Raise your hand if you bought the game for campaigns...

They have publicly said as recently as yesterday that they plan to provide an offline mode (though I do not believe they plan to provide an offline multiplayer mode e.g. hotseat).

[GendoIkari]

(though I do not believe they plan to provide an offline multiplayer mode e.g. hotseat).

I assume this is another way of phrasing asynchronous play? Or does it refer to pass-and-play?

I really don't get why people over on bgg want asynchronous play. Dominion simply isn't a good game for that. A game of Dominion is short; it's one of the best things about it. It's especially short when played online. Why would you take a game that takes about 10 minutes to play and stretch it out over potentially days? And that's completely ignoring things like reactions.

[Burning Skull]

(though I do not believe they plan to provide an offline multiplayer mode e.g. hotseat).

I assume this is another way of phrasing asynchronous play? Or does it refer to pass-and-play?

I really don't get why people over on bgg want asynchronous play. Dominion simply isn't a good game for that. A game of Dominion is short; it's one of the best things about it. It's especially short when played online. Why would you take a game that takes about 10 minutes to play and stretch it out over potentially days? And that's completely ignoring things like reactions.

But how come pass-and-play stretches games? Bunch of folks walk into the room, launch the application and play against each other using one game client. Also, they probably eat pizza.

[Awaclus]

(though I do not believe they plan to provide an offline multiplayer mode e.g. hotseat).

I assume this is another way of phrasing asynchronous play? Or does it refer to pass-and-play?

I really don't get why people over on bgg want asynchronous play. Dominion simply isn't a good game for that. A game of Dominion is short; it's one of the best things about it. It's especially short when played online. Why would you take a game that takes about 10 minutes to play and stretch it out over potentially days? And that's completely ignoring things like reactions.

But how come pass-and-play stretches games?

It doesn't. Asynchronoys play does.

[GendoIkari]

(though I do not believe they plan to provide an offline multiplayer mode e.g. hotseat).

I assume this is another way of phrasing asynchronous play? Or does it refer to pass-and-play?

I really don't get why people over on bgg want asynchronous play. Dominion simply isn't a good game for that. A game of Dominion is short; it's one of the best things about it. It's especially short when played online. Why would you take a game that takes about 10 minutes to play and stretch it out over potentially days? And that's completely ignoring things like reactions.

But how come pass-and-play stretches games? Bunch of folks walk into the room, launch the application and play against each other using one game client. Also, they probably eat pizza.

Pass and play isn't bad. Though it would be difficult to implement because of hidden information such as your hands... there would be extra steps involved, where you would have to tap a button to hide the screen at the end of your turn, then your opponent would have to tap a button to show his screen after you pass it to him. So an extra 2 steps in between each time control passes from one player to another... which again could be just at the end of each turn, or a bunch of times within one turn when there's a Moat in hand and a Spy or Scrying Pool engine.

[SCSN]

This is truly a failure of capitalism here. I think the reason it's online only is so you can't hack unlock the game. God forbid somebody play the campaigns without paying. Raise your hand if you bought the game for campaigns...

They have publicly said as recently as yesterday that they plan to provide an offline mode (though I do not believe they plan to provide an offline multiplayer mode e.g. hotseat).

They've also been saying stuff like this:

MF reply to the online requirement in the app store.

Unfortunately, a game with this much card logic needs to rely on a server connection.

That's so stupid!

So at least it's reassuring to see that the quality of their PR is on par with the rest of the company.

[Watno]

This is truly a failure of capitalism here. I think the reason it's online only is so you can't hack unlock the game. God forbid somebody play the campaigns without paying. Raise your hand if you bought the game for campaigns...

I think it's kinda amusing people think MF didn't implement offline play out of ulterior motives, when they simply failed to see people wanted that and messed up the way they designed their code.

[GendoIkari]

This is truly a failure of capitalism here. I think the reason it's online only is so you can't hack unlock the game. God forbid somebody play the campaigns without paying. Raise your hand if you bought the game for campaigns...

I think it's kinda amusing people think MF didn't implement offline play out of ulterior motives, when they simply failed to see people wanted that and messed up the way they designed their code.

Yeah. It's not like they went out of their way to program online requirements. Rather they simply already had all the Dominion logic programmed on the server, and it's way easier to simply port the client portion they already had to iOS than it is to port the entire server side logic over to iOS.

[Beyond Awesome]

This is truly a failure of capitalism here. I think the reason it's online only is so you can't hack unlock the game. God forbid somebody play the campaigns without paying. Raise your hand if you bought the game for campaigns...

I think it's kinda amusing people think MF didn't implement offline play out of ulterior motives, when they simply failed to see people wanted that and messed up the way they designed their code.

Considering the sheer volume of people saying they wanted offline play, it should have been obvious.

[DoomYoshi]

Has DXV ever commented on why he chose Goko to make the official implementation? I feel like if he would have gone with a real company (i.e. EA Games) they would have offered him less money for the license but produced a much more solid game.

It's really disappointing that the game feels so luxe (extra randomizer cards, lots of tokens and playmats, quality box for storing cards) yet the app feels so cheap. It's like if instead of randomizer cards the game came with advertisements (or even worse - time-limited coupons) and instead of slots in the box, everything just jumbled together and if there were only 10 kingdom cards to start and all the graphics were crappy xeroxes but it was still the same price it would feel like the app.

[werothegreat]

In fairness, Hearthstone also does a lot of stuff server-side. The client is mainly a GUI that keeps track of what's in your hand. The developers admitted as much when discussing a new card - Reno Jackson - that has an effect dependent on what's in your deck. They couldn't give any sort of infographic on the card when it's in your hand because all of your deck information is stored on the server.

[markusin]

In fairness, Hearthstone also does a lot of stuff server-side. The client is mainly a GUI that keeps track of what's in your hand. The developers admitted as much when discussing a new card - Reno Jackson - that has an effect dependent on what's in your deck. They couldn't give any sort of infographic on the card when it's in your hand because all of your deck information is stored on the server.

Blizzard games have forced online-only play through Battlenet since I think StarCraft 2 without providing any LAN support. There were many outcries against this. So, Blizzard has been successful despite the online-only requirement for their newer games. Given that these newer games are already online-only through Blizzard's policy, having the game logic stored server-side doesn't affect the user experience much more than their user base has already come to expect.

Has DXV ever commented on why he chose Goko to make the official implementation? I feel like if he would have gone with a real company (i.e. EA Games) they would have offered him less money for the license but produced a much more solid game.

It's really disappointing that the game feels so luxe (extra randomizer cards, lots of tokens and playmats, quality box for storing cards) yet the app feels so cheap. It's like if instead of randomizer cards the game came with advertisements (or even worse - time-limited coupons) and instead of slots in the box, everything just jumbled together and if there were only 10 kingdom cards to start and all the graphics were crappy xeroxes but it was still the same price it would feel like the app.

Wasn't it RGG that made that decision?

[LastFootnote]

Has DXV ever commented on why he chose Goko to make the official implementation? I feel like if he would have gone with a real company (i.e. EA Games) they would have offered him less money for the license but produced a much more solid game.

It's really disappointing that the game feels so luxe (extra randomizer cards, lots of tokens and playmats, quality box for storing cards) yet the app feels so cheap. It's like if instead of randomizer cards the game came with advertisements (or even worse - time-limited coupons) and instead of slots in the box, everything just jumbled together and if there were only 10 kingdom cards to start and all the graphics were crappy xeroxes but it was still the same price it would feel like the app.

Wasn't it RGG that made that decision?

Yes, it was. And from what I have read, Jay chose Goko because they promised cross-platform play that wasn't Farmville.

[SCSN]

The version I heard is that Donald had a meeting with some Goko representatives who showed him the following picture:


He was sold on the spot.

[werothegreat]

I feel like if he would have gone with a real company (i.e. EA Games)

Really?  Really?  You pick EA Games as your standard of a professional company?  The most hated "professional" game-making company in the business?

[Awaclus]

Has DXV ever commented on why he chose Goko to make the official implementation? I feel like if he would have gone with a real company (i.e. EA Games) they would have offered him less money for the license but produced a much more solid game.

It's really disappointing that the game feels so luxe (extra randomizer cards, lots of tokens and playmats, quality box for storing cards) yet the app feels so cheap. It's like if instead of randomizer cards the game came with advertisements (or even worse - time-limited coupons) and instead of slots in the box, everything just jumbled together and if there were only 10 kingdom cards to start and all the graphics were crappy xeroxes but it was still the same price it would feel like the app.

Wasn't it RGG that made that decision?

Yes, it was. And from what I have read, Jay chose Goko because they promised cross-platform play that wasn't Farmville.

I wish we had Farmville.

[DoomYoshi]

I feel like if he would have gone with a real company (i.e. EA Games)

Really?  Really?  You pick EA Games as your standard of a professional company?  The most hated "professional" game-making company in the business?

I'm out of touch with software... it's the only company I could think of that makes games. I'm not sure why people hate them but if Dominion was a pogo game, it would probably turn out better.

[blueblimp]

Has DXV ever commented on why he chose Goko to make the official implementation? I feel like if he would have gone with a real company (i.e. EA Games) they would have offered him less money for the license but produced a much more solid game.

It's really disappointing that the game feels so luxe (extra randomizer cards, lots of tokens and playmats, quality box for storing cards) yet the app feels so cheap. It's like if instead of randomizer cards the game came with advertisements (or even worse - time-limited coupons) and instead of slots in the box, everything just jumbled together and if there were only 10 kingdom cards to start and all the graphics were crappy xeroxes but it was still the same price it would feel like the app.

Wasn't it RGG that made that decision?

Yes, it was. And from what I have read, Jay chose Goko because they promised cross-platform play that wasn't Farmville.

Yeah, that's what I remember reading. Goko was founded on a reasonable idea, which was to use HTML5 to create cross-platform clients.

In my opinion, in hindsight, the two errors were:

• Goko didn't have a track record. You couldn't look at a previous adaptation they'd done to see whether it's good, because they hadn't done any. For a license as important as Dominion, it's safer to pick a company that has already done quality board game adaptations.
• Fully cross-platform play is too much to ask for. Most legit companies I've seen (like Playdek) specialize in a particular platform. Even finding a single company to develop both iOS and Android versions might be hard!

In an alternative universe, what could have been done is to get an iOS/Android specialist company to adapt Dominion for mobile platforms specifically. Take down the unofficial mobile apps, restrict isotropic to only work with desktop browsers (not that it was fully functional on tablets anyway), and put promotional links on isotropic for the mobile versions.

[Kirian]

I feel like if he would have gone with a real company (i.e. EA Games)

Really?  Really?  You pick EA Games as your standard of a professional company?  The most hated "professional" game-making company in the business?

I'm out of touch with software... it's the only company I could think of that makes games. I'm not sure why people hate them but if Dominion was a pogo game, it would probably turn out better.

EA destroyed SimCity.  That's enough reason to hate them right there.  But as I understand it they've also destroyed a bunch of other good franchises.

What is "pogo"?

[DoomYoshi]

I feel like if he would have gone with a real company (i.e. EA Games)

Really?  Really?  You pick EA Games as your standard of a professional company?  The most hated "professional" game-making company in the business?

I'm out of touch with software... it's the only company I could think of that makes games. I'm not sure why people hate them but if Dominion was a pogo game, it would probably turn out better.

EA destroyed SimCity.  That's enough reason to hate them right there.  But as I understand it they've also destroyed a bunch of other good franchises.

What is "pogo"?

It's EA board and card games' website.

EDIT: removed snarky comment that added nothing.

[Donald X.]

They have publicly said as recently as yesterday that they plan to provide an offline mode (though I do not believe they plan to provide an offline multiplayer mode e.g. hotseat).

They've also been saying stuff like this:

MF reply to the online requirement in the app store.

Unfortunately, a game with this much card logic needs to rely on a server connection.

That's so stupid!

So at least it's reassuring to see that the quality of their PR is on par with the rest of the company.

Note that they do not say that anymore. We can't run the experiment the other way, but I yelled at them and they fixed it and explained at length how mortified they were.

[Donald X.]

Has DXV ever commented on why he chose Goko to make the official implementation? I feel like if he would have gone with a real company (i.e. EA Games) they would have offered him less money for the license but produced a much more solid game.

It's really disappointing that the game feels so luxe (extra randomizer cards, lots of tokens and playmats, quality box for storing cards) yet the app feels so cheap. It's like if instead of randomizer cards the game came with advertisements (or even worse - time-limited coupons) and instead of slots in the box, everything just jumbled together and if there were only 10 kingdom cards to start and all the graphics were crappy xeroxes but it was still the same price it would feel like the app.

Wasn't it RGG that made that decision?

Yes, it was. And from what I have read, Jay chose Goko because they promised cross-platform play that wasn't Farmville.

Correct on both counts.

I have a contract with RGG that lets RGG sub-license for an electronic version. That's the extent of my official involvement. MF does try not to piss me off, since maybe they have worked out that, worst case, I could cut them off by having a new contract with Jay that ruled them out. They have not done especially well on that front, I will cite Adventures not coming out in April as an example. Still my tolerance level is no doubt higher than yours, whoever you are.

When Jay was looking for people to do a money-making online version (having previously paid to have BSW up), there were a small number of interested parties. Funsockets had the better pitch: cross-platform, not Farmville (the runner-up wanted Farmville). Funsockets also wanted to do Farmville, but managed to pitch not-that.

Funsockets renamed themselves Goko; Goko died but wait didn't, while AFAIK all previous people are gone (e.g. "CEO" Ted), a "CEO" named Kate Connally remains in the loop; somehow now Making Fun has the job. I don't know if RGG even has a contract with them, or if it's sub-sub-licensed or what.

EA is the not example you were looking for DoomYoshi, as other people are noting.

[Donald X.]

In my opinion, in hindsight, the two errors were:

• Goko didn't have a track record. You couldn't look at a previous adaptation they'd done to see whether it's good, because they hadn't done any. For a license as important as Dominion, it's safer to pick a company that has already done quality board game adaptations.
• Fully cross-platform play is too much to ask for. Most legit companies I've seen (like Playdek) specialize in a particular platform. Even finding a single company to develop both iOS and Android versions might be hard!

The big thing is that they didn't have a track record. The company with a track record would have known what they could manage in terms of cross-platform stuff.

There is also, being eager to get an official online version going fast, thus going with one of the applicants instead of waiting for someone better. We could have waited 2 years for someone better and still gotten here faster.

For me personally, I was eager to have an official online version, because of that guy who put my name in his product's title, who I should have sued.

[werothegreat]

Is the fact that Adventures isn't available yet on MF holding back a possible announcement of a next expansion?  Or rather, would you prefer to announce something like that (if there were one) after Dominion Online had everything up to date?  Or rather, does that have any influence on decisions like that?

[LastFootnote]

Is the fact that Adventures isn't available yet on MF holding back a possible announcement of a next expansion?  Or rather, would you prefer to announce something like that (if there were one) after Dominion Online had everything up to date?  Or rather, does that have any influence on decisions like that?

Wouldn't Jay be in charge of making those decisions?

[Donald X.]

Is the fact that Adventures isn't available yet on MF holding back a possible announcement of a next expansion?  Or rather, would you prefer to announce something like that (if there were one) after Dominion Online had everything up to date?  Or rather, does that have any influence on decisions like that?

I am pretty sure that the exact state of the online version has no effect on any decisions for the physical version.

At this point it would be idiotic to be at all considering the online version. In order for this to change, the online version would have to be way way more successful. Or, ignoring success because who cares, we would have to be getting way way more personal satisfaction from it.