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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards  (Read 38636 times)

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DoomYoshi

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2015, 09:42:46 am »
0

King's Court would benefit almost every deck; but you can build a deck around Goons.

However, I can't think of a single deck that wouldn't benefit from a GM.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 09:43:52 am by DoomYoshi »
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LastFootnote

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2015, 09:49:51 am »
+7

Basically every deck wants Grand Markets, but pursuing Grand Markets is not always wise.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2015, 09:54:35 am »
0

Grand Market is nice, and you want it pretty often, but it's not one of the best engine payloads and it's a very expensive card for non-engine strategies.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2015, 09:56:33 am »
+4

King's Court would benefit almost every deck; but you can build a deck around Goons.

However, I can't think of a single deck that wouldn't benefit from a GM.

Cultist-BM might qualify.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2015, 10:08:28 am »
0

However, I can't think of a single deck that wouldn't benefit from a GM.

Beggar-Gardens? Masterpiece-Feodum? I don't think I'd stop by Grand Market for those.
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aku_chi

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2015, 10:15:00 am »
+1

GM is secretly an $8 pretty much. I'm actually surprised it is still as high as it is
The first Grand Market might be about as difficult to acquire as an 8-cost card, but subsequent ones are not.  Part of what makes Grand Market so impactful is the snowball effect.  Once a player gets one Grand Market (a significant challenge on most boards), it becomes much easier to get more Grand Markets.  And winning the Grand Market split 7/3 or better is very valuable.

I'm convinced that King's Court and Goons deserve their top-2 spots (in one order or the other), but I'm open to the possibility that Lost Arts and/or Pathfinding might be more impactful than Grand Market.  On a board with good terminal draw, Lost Arts is game-warping.  On boards without terminal draw but without action splitters, Lost Arts is very valuable.  On the remaining boards, Lost Arts is merely decent.  Pathfinding is never as game-warping as Lost Arts on terminal draw, but it turns almost every kingdom into a kingdom where it is possible, and sometimes trivial, to draw one's whole deck.  Inheritance is almost on the same level as Pathfinding (I ranked Border Village between them), but the restriction to 4-cost (or less) non-victory action cards makes it a dud on some boards.  Sometimes, there isn't an Inheritance target strong enough to be worth forgoing Estate trashing.  On other boards, it's as game-warping as the other two token events.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2015, 10:20:15 am »
+1

Excluding Adventures, I ranked Grand Market at #6, below KC, Goons, Border Village, Hunting Grounds and Nobles. In retrospect, I think Fairgrounds should have been above it as well (between Hunting Grounds and Nobles, I would say now).
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aku_chi

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2015, 10:44:03 am »
+2

Can somebody explain why Fairgrounds is a great card to me?  I must be missing something.  If anything, my tendency is to rank victory cards higher than the average around here (I ranked Tunnel, Gardens, and Duke all significantly higher than average), but Fairgrounds has never stood out to me - especially amid the stiff competition of the 6+ cost cards.

My thoughts on Fairgrounds: with just a little effort, it's worth 4 VP in an engine.  4 VP for 6 coins is pretty good, but nothing special.  With a lot of effort, Fairgrounds can be worth 6 VP.  6 VP for 6 coins is very good, but not quite as good as Duke (which can be 6+ VP for 5 coins with similar effort).  As another pile of substantial VP, Fairgrounds slants the game in favor of engines (like Vineyards, Distant Lands, and (IMO) Gardens).  However, in engine mirrors, 3-pile endings are pretty common (especially in 3+ player games), so Fairgrounds might hardly be purchased.  The best environment for Fairgrounds is a kingdom with a lot of interchangeable engine parts, but such kingdoms aren't common.

What am I missing?
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2015, 10:44:47 am »
0

However, I can't think of a single deck that wouldn't benefit from a GM.

Beggar-Gardens? Masterpiece-Feodum? I don't think I'd stop by Grand Market for those.

Thats simple, basically any engine with strong draw. On half of engine boards by the time you could get grand market opponent engine is already at double province/colony phase and you need to start greening or opponent three piles or gets six province lead in three turns.
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DoomYoshi

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2015, 10:45:14 am »
+1

The way I was thinking of it was fairly abstractly. If I had a free 6+ card placed in my deck, Grand Market is the one I would least complain about. Wasting a turn buying one is not always great, but a variant where everyone gets a free GM still allows players to play whatever deck you were planning.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2015, 10:56:47 am »
+5

Can somebody explain why Fairgrounds is a great card to me?  I must be missing something.  If anything, my tendency is to rank victory cards higher than the average around here (I ranked Tunnel, Gardens, and Duke all significantly higher than average), but Fairgrounds has never stood out to me - especially amid the stiff competition of the 6+ cost cards.

My thoughts on Fairgrounds: with just a little effort, it's worth 4 VP in an engine.  4 VP for 6 coins is pretty good, but nothing special.  With a lot of effort, Fairgrounds can be worth 6 VP.  6 VP for 6 coins is very good, but not quite as good as Duke (which can be 6+ VP for 5 coins with similar effort).  As another pile of substantial VP, Fairgrounds slants the game in favor of engines (like Vineyards, Distant Lands, and (IMO) Gardens).  However, in engine mirrors, 3-pile endings are pretty common (especially in 3+ player games), so Fairgrounds might hardly be purchased.  The best environment for Fairgrounds is a kingdom with a lot of interchangeable engine parts, but such kingdoms aren't common.

What am I missing?

Duke requires you to win a stop card split to be worth 6 VP, Fairgrounds requires you to have one copy of a number of cards, most of which you probably actually want to have in your deck anyway. It is incredibly good at enabling engines to catch up in the late game while the opponent is struggling to end it, which is not true for any other kingdom Victory card to the same extent because they require you to start committing to them and building your deck around the VP condition in a way that hurts how well the deck actually works way earlier than Fairgrounds does (Vineyard is close-ish though).

Thats simple, basically any engine with strong draw. On half of engine boards by the time you could get grand market opponent engine is already at double province/colony phase and you need to start greening or opponent three piles or gets six province lead in three turns.

Well, if your opponent is hitting $22 with 2 buys before you're hitting $6 without Coppers, it's probably not the Grand Market's fault if you're losing.
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luser

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2015, 12:23:02 pm »
0

d
Thats simple, basically any engine with strong draw. On half of engine boards by the time you could get grand market opponent engine is already at double province/colony phase and you need to start greening or opponent three piles or gets six province lead in three turns.

Well, if your opponent is hitting $22 with 2 buys before you're hitting $6 without Coppers, it's probably not the Grand Market's fault if you're losing.
No, for engine you need to add payload only once you could draw deck. And as buying three silvers tend to be terrible you could afford it after first platinum. So you have two turns where you could add single grand market or platinum and engine component until you start double-colony turns.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2015, 04:47:56 pm »
+1

No, for engine you need to add payload only once you could draw deck.

Much of the time your payload is an attack that you want to get early and play as often as possible. Other times it is your +Buy and you need it in the early/mid game to get engine components.

As for Grand Market, you can easily get it with stuff like Stonemason, Moneylender, Salvager, Remodel, Bandit Camp, Festival, Vault, Count, Upgrade, HOP, etc. which you want for your engine anyway. Also DoomYoshi's point was that GM doesn't hurt almost any deck it's put in for free. Engines are definitely not an exception. Cultist-BM, on the other hand, may be a valid counterexample.

DoomYoshi

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2015, 07:25:04 pm »
+1

Cultist only wants cultist... so I don't see how that elevates goons above GM. KC is way better though in that case.
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Chris is me

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #64 on: November 29, 2015, 07:50:17 pm »
+1

Can somebody explain why Fairgrounds is a great card to me?  I must be missing something.  If anything, my tendency is to rank victory cards higher than the average around here (I ranked Tunnel, Gardens, and Duke all significantly higher than average), but Fairgrounds has never stood out to me - especially amid the stiff competition of the 6+ cost cards.

My thoughts on Fairgrounds: with just a little effort, it's worth 4 VP in an engine.  4 VP for 6 coins is pretty good, but nothing special.  With a lot of effort, Fairgrounds can be worth 6 VP.  6 VP for 6 coins is very good, but not quite as good as Duke (which can be 6+ VP for 5 coins with similar effort).  As another pile of substantial VP, Fairgrounds slants the game in favor of engines (like Vineyards, Distant Lands, and (IMO) Gardens).  However, in engine mirrors, 3-pile endings are pretty common (especially in 3+ player games), so Fairgrounds might hardly be purchased.  The best environment for Fairgrounds is a kingdom with a lot of interchangeable engine parts, but such kingdoms aren't common.

What am I missing?

The biggest thing is that it gives you a lot more time to build an engine. Your opponent has to buy 8 provinces to win the game, not just 4 or so, which buys several turns for engine building. Not to mention in the time it takes to build a deck to get 2 Provinces, you can nearly get 3 Fairgrounds. I don't think Fairgrounds is better than Grand Market, but it's a very good card on certain boards.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #65 on: November 29, 2015, 10:05:27 pm »
0

something i've learned from watching vids: if there's no engine or good BM card, going for 6-point fairgrounds is the move. duke is a bigger deal on these kinds of boards, but i like fairgrounds over gardens if there's no great enabler for either.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2015, 10:45:13 pm »
+1

Thank you for the responses.  I'd like to articulate my reservation with considering Fairgrounds a high-impact card.  First, I'll divide all possible kingdoms into four groups: A, B, C, and D.

A) Kingdoms with a large variety of interchangeable engine components.  Fairgrounds will figure prominently in deck-building strategy.  In these kingdoms, a 3-pile ending (that doesn't include Fairgrounds) is less likely, and Fairgrounds can be brought to 6 VP without significantly affecting deck quality.
B) Kingdoms with a few key engine components.  The presence of Fairgrounds isn't likely to change anyone's strategy.  All players will pursue those key engine components and a 3-pile ending is likely.  Some players might grab some Fairgrounds for 4 VP, but this is only slightly better than Duchies.
C) Kingdoms where big money and engine strategies are equally viable (absent Fairgrounds).  Fairgrounds will encourage the engine.  In most such kingdoms, it will often be non-optimal to try to get 15+ unique cards, so Fairgrounds will be only slightly better than Duchies.
D) All other kingdoms: slogs, rushes, combos, uncontested big money.  Fairgrounds will be completely ignored.  (If the big money strategy can costlessly contain 10+ unique cards, this is probably a C kingdom.)

Fairgrounds is quite valuable in A kingdoms, somewhat impactful in C kingdoms, very minor in B kingdoms, and irrelevant in D kingdoms.  In my experience, though, B kingdoms are the most common and A kingdoms the least common.  As a result, Fairgrounds has a minor impact on the average kingdom.

Have I framed this reasonably?  Am I mistaken about the prevalence of the kingdom types?  Is there any data on how often high-level games end on three piles (a pretty strong indication of B or D kingdoms, IMO)?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 11:22:40 pm by aku_chi »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2015, 10:56:12 pm »
+2

@aku_chi

I'd say your analysis on Fairgrounds is reasonable as a starting point.

I have to disagree that Fairgrounds is irrelevant in slogs. Often times it is a slog card itself. In games where both players have been junked heavily (especially with Ruins junk) you'll have a much easier time Spiking Fairgrounds than Province and so you want those Fairgrounds to be worth more than they are for your opponent.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2015, 11:02:34 pm »
+1

Thank you for the responses.  I'd like to articulate my reservation with considering Fairgrounds a high-impact card.  First, I'll divide all possible kingdoms into four groups: A, B, C, and D.

A) Kingdoms with a large variety of interchangeable engine components.  Fairgrounds will figure prominently in deck-building strategy.  In these kingdoms, a 3-pile ending (that doesn't include Fairgrounds) is less likely, and Fairgrounds can be brought to 6 VP without significantly affecting deck quality.
B) Kingdoms with a few key engine components.  The presence of Fairgrounds isn't likely to change anyone's strategy.  All players will pursue those key engine components and a 3-pile ending is likely.  Some players might grab some Fairgrounds for 4 VP, but this is only slightly better than Duchies.
C) Kingdoms where big money and engine strategies are equally viable (absent Fairgrounds).  Fairgrounds will encourage the engine.  In most such kingdoms, it will often be non-optimal to try to get 15+ unique cards, so Fairgrounds will be only slightly better than Duchies.
D) All other kingdoms: slogs, rushes, combos, uncontested big money.  Fairgrounds will be completely ignored.  (If the big money strategy can costlessly contain 10+ unique cards, this is probably a B kingdom.)

Fairgrounds is quite valuable in A kingdoms, somewhat impactful in C kingdoms, very minor in B kingdoms, and irrelevant in D kingdoms.  In my experience, though, B kingdoms are the most common and A kingdoms the least common.  As a result, Fairgrounds has a minor impact on the average kingdom.

Have I framed this reasonably?  Am I mistaken about the prevalence of the kingdom types?  Is there any data on how often high-level games end on three piles (a pretty strong indication of B or D kingdoms, IMO)?

The problem is that there's a spectrum going from A to B, and even though you might not go for some of the other pieces that only sort of fit into your deck otherwise, Fairgrounds makes it worthwhile to pick up a copy of each of those, which makes itself better.  So you could say that you're underestimating how often A happens, but I think it would be more accurate to say that Fairgrounds is more important than you think it is in a lot of the boards you classify as B, since in reality those boards are somewhere between A and B.

The other thing that I don't think you take into account anywhere is that Fairgrounds is an extra pile of big VP cards.  That by itself makes it really strong and impactful.  If there was a kingdom card that was just another pile of Provinces, where do you think it would rank on this list?  It'd probably be pretty high.  Fairgrounds isn't quite as big as Province all the time (often times it is), but the comparison should help you see why this is an important factor.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2015, 07:11:10 am »
+7

Hi, it's me again. So this list is small enough it's hard to find a cutoff that works well, so I just selected the ones that are very different, plus a couple of others that I wanted to talk about. Here we go...

I ranked Nobles 19th, here it's 12th.

Well weren't we generous to Nobles? This has been talked about quite a bit so count me in for thinking we overrated this one quite a bit. Nobles is really overcosted for what it does: for $6 you expect to get 4 VP, 4 cards, or +2 Cards/+2 Actions, but you don't get any of those things. Sure, you get some flexibility but really you're wanting exactly one of those things in most decks, and you're almost always very sad if you have to take Actions with one of your Nobles. If Nobles cost $5 I would probably put it in the bottom 50% of $5 cards, so the fact that it's around 50% here seems very wrong.

I ranked Border Village 14th, here it's 5th.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. 5th? Wow. I'm trying to see the rationale behind putting Border Village so high and I'm just not getting there. Yeah Border Village is pretty good but wow, this is just way too high and I really don't understand how people can put it above a lot of these other cards. Cards that cost $6 and up can usually break the game and BV just doesn't do that...

I ranked Forge 11th, here it's 16th.

A minor difference, but big enough that it needs to be talked about. Trashing your cards is really good, did you know that? Forge is really good at that and it gives you huge endgame flexibility -- I wonder if people are underestimating Forge because the endgame flexibility is rarely used to its full potential, kind of like Develop, Procession, and Inn on the other costs. I think I like that theory; Forge is super-great.

I ranked Fairgrounds 8th, here it's 13th.

Hey it's green and I've ranked it higher than the community! Big shocker there, though a lot of other people have chimed in agreeing with this particular read. A second stack of Provinces has a huge impact on the game if there's any sort of engine viable.

I ranked King's Court 4th, here it's 1st.

I thought very hard about every single card I put above King's Court (and I stand behind each one of them); so even though this is only three ranks of difference I feel like this is probably worth talking about because it shows some other cards we're underestimating (particularly Adventures cards). The cards I put above King's Court are the following:

Goons. Yeah, Goons is a big deal on every single board you see it on. I believe only Cultist and Rebuild can make Goons ignorable, otherwise the best strategy always revolves around playing Goons as often as possible. Sure, there's an argument to be made that KC should still be ranked higher, and there's something to that. It kind of depends on what criteria you're using to rank cards on this list. At the end of the day I had it 2nd and so did the community so it's tough to complain about.

I ranked Lost Arts 1st, here it's 4th.

During playtesting, we quickly found that Lost Arts was very, very, super-ultra extremely broken. Lost Arts makes it extremely easy to just draw your deck, and drawing your deck is really good. The first comparison made was to King's Court, which justified not nerfing the card (but in fact buffing it by making it an event, decreasing the opportunity cost by a whole bunch). The impact Lost Arts has on a game is huge and the cost is so small -- with King's Court you have to pick up several of them to start the craziness but here it's just $6 and a buy and now you draw your deck every turn. Nothing can come close, IMO.

I ranked Inheritance 3rd, here it's 9th.

This is the big one: the one that I expect to change drastically the next time the cards lists come out. The community has this one way off and I feel like it's because we're genuinely underestimating the impact this card has on the game.

I think in general we're still assuming that each card in the game has the opportunity cost of money and a buy to get it into your deck, and then a card an action to draw and play it. This means we underestimate Events and overestimate the Journey Token stuff. Inheritance probably suffers from this: you only need to hit $7 once and boom, everything changes.

The first thing is that you've not only "thinned" three Estates from your deck (this effect is ENORMOUS and I feel like that's a valuable little nugget of insight that isn't realized enough) but you've gained three really good cards and not lost those points. This effect is amazing. Like, it's way better than King's Court. I remember the first time this happened to me: I had inherited Oracles and I draw a hand of Throne Room, Throne Room, Estate, Estate, Copper and I think to myself "aww man, I dudded. This sucks." Then I realized "no, you idiot, this hand is AMAZING! Remember you've been buying Estates on $5 the past few turns?"

The second thing is that now you have this stack of cards that is really, really, overpowered. These four-costs now cost only $2 and are even worth points. This is like Ferry, which we all recognize is completely ridiculous, only even better.

Each of these aspects is probably being underestimated, which probably explains why Inheritance is put so low. Inheritance is bonkers (and really fun, too. Like, it's easily my favorite "card" in Adventures and is competing with the likes of Steward and Jack for the top spot in my heart), you guys should play with it more, it's super-great. <3


And here is my full ranking for reference.

Code: [Select]
1.) Lost Arts   [X]
2.) Goons   [X]
3.) Inheritance   [X]
4.) King's Court   [X]
5.) Grand Market   [X]
6.) Hunting Grounds   [X]
7.) Pathfinding   [X]
8.) Fairgrounds   [X]
9.) Hireling   [X]
10.) Peddler   [X]
11.) Forge   [X]
12.) Altar   [X]
13.) Prince   [X]
14.) Border Village   [X]
15.) Expand   [X]
16.) Bank   [X]
17.) Hoard   [X]
18.) Training   [X]
19.) Nobles   [X]
20.) Farmland   [X]
21.) Harem   [X]
22.) Adventurer   [X]
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #70 on: November 30, 2015, 07:32:10 am »
+5

Whoa, whoa, whoa. 5th? Wow. I'm trying to see the rationale behind putting Border Village so high and I'm just not getting there. Yeah Border Village is pretty good but wow, this is just way too high and I really don't understand how people can put it above a lot of these other cards. Cards that cost $6 and up can usually break the game and BV just doesn't do that...

The only thing that's wrong with Border Village's ranking is that it should be higher than Grand Market. It's a Village that doesn't cost a buy and costs only $1 in coins. That is amazingly good for engines. Other than King's Court (whose power really lies in that it's also super good payload), I would say that Border Village is the strongest engine component in the entire game, and that really does say something.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #71 on: November 30, 2015, 07:42:36 am »
+1

Inheritance sucks if there is cheaper estate trashing(hermit,forager,chapel,urchin,steward,(joat maybe), (salvager maybe) when it is like "great i just this (Insert 4 cost here) cost 2 and nets me 1 vp. Personally I like KC because it means I can draw my deck with one play, add then payload quickly. I don't like Goons above KC because goons games without a village turn into goons big money but in a deck with draw little better than ruined library can make your deck explode. Gaining 3 cards once per game and putting you cost reduction token on something is little better than kinging a workshop.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #72 on: November 30, 2015, 07:51:13 am »
+1

Whoa, whoa, whoa. 5th? Wow. I'm trying to see the rationale behind putting Border Village so high and I'm just not getting there. Yeah Border Village is pretty good but wow, this is just way too high and I really don't understand how people can put it above a lot of these other cards. Cards that cost $6 and up can usually break the game and BV just doesn't do that...

The only thing that's wrong with Border Village's ranking is that it should be higher than Grand Market. It's a Village that doesn't cost a buy and costs only $1 in coins. That is amazingly good for engines. Other than King's Court (whose power really lies in that it's also super good payload), I would say that Border Village is the strongest engine component in the entire game, and that really does say something.

Yeah, it's good, but there are two cases. Case 1 is where Border Village isn't the only village. Border Village is nice here. Not nearly nice enough to compete with these cards that are ridiculous. Here, you're overestimating the effect. The other situation is where Border Village is the only village, where its cost of $6 is a huge handicap. Here, you're just severely underestimating the opportunity cost of Border Village.

So my point is, you're never going to get that super-low opportunity cost AND that game-changing effect in the same game. I like Border Village right where I put it, right down the middle. BV is not bad, but all of those cards I put above it are really good.


Inheritance sucks if there is cheaper estate trashing(hermit,forager,chapel,urchin,steward,(joat maybe), (salvager maybe) when it is like "great i just this (Insert 4 cost here) cost 2 and nets me 1 vp. Personally I like KC because it means I can draw my deck with one play, add then payload quickly. I don't like Goons above KC because goons games without a village turn into goons big money but in a deck with draw little better than ruined library can make your deck explode. Gaining 3 cards once per game and putting you cost reduction token on something is little better than kinging a workshop.

Umm, so don't trash your Estates when Inheritance is out. Don't put that card in your deck that's not so great after your Estates are gone. Like, if you just build your deck differently in these games, your deck will be way better. Of course the main benefit of Inheritance is gone when you trash your Estates some other way.

Like, the whole point of why Inheritance is so good is because sometimes early Estate-trashing (which is amazing, don't get me wrong) is not as good as Inheritance.



I feel like I'm not really adding anything here, people are just saying "no I think you're wrong about this" and I'm like "no I think I'm right." Hmm. Yeah, I think I'm right.
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markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #73 on: November 30, 2015, 07:59:56 am »
+1

Whoa, whoa, whoa. 5th? Wow. I'm trying to see the rationale behind putting Border Village so high and I'm just not getting there. Yeah Border Village is pretty good but wow, this is just way too high and I really don't understand how people can put it above a lot of these other cards. Cards that cost $6 and up can usually break the game and BV just doesn't do that...

The only thing that's wrong with Border Village's ranking is that it should be higher than Grand Market. It's a Village that doesn't cost a buy and costs only $1 in coins. That is amazingly good for engines. Other than King's Court (whose power really lies in that it's also super good payload), I would say that Border Village is the strongest engine component in the entire game, and that really does say something.

Not to mention that it raises the average cost of cards in the deck for trash-for-benefit purposes and there are all sorts of shenanigans you can pull by gaining it with cards like Procession, Upgrade, Stonemason etc. to help give you extra pile control.

Adam, you say the 6+-cost cards are often game breaking, but there are a bunch of 5-cost cards that are as well. Border Village gets you those cards paired with a village, which is likely to make those 5-costs even more effective when combined with the rest of your deck.

Now you can argue that the token events do the same sort of thing with less opportunity cost and with faster acting effects. Well you ranked most of those higher and you could be right about those events being stronger than BV.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2015 Edition: $6+ cards
« Reply #74 on: November 30, 2015, 08:03:32 am »
0

Hmmm.... A lot of times you can't hit an early 7$ hand without estate trashing. Action card that can spike early 7 would prefer king's court a whole lot e.g(Wine merchant) personally I think I underestimated inheritance ( I put it at 8) I am fine with it at 4th below King's Court, Goons, and Lost Arts
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