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Author Topic: Scout Synergies  (Read 15124 times)

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Awaclus

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2015, 02:15:16 am »
+5

The cards that actually make Scout a worthwhile purchase are:


Oh, and I almost forgot this one:

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terminalCopper

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2015, 06:24:08 am »
+2

Roadrunner, please, stop theory-crafting. Provide some logs where scout's deck-ordering or its draw made it a strong buy. More than the single one with Adam and apothecary.
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Limetime

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2015, 09:27:14 am »
0

Scout works ok with rats so you can top deck junck/draw it and then trash it with rats. This works fine with butcher because scouts are practically free.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2015, 10:11:31 am »
0

Roadrunner, please, stop theory-crafting. Provide some logs where scout's deck-ordering or its draw made it a strong buy. More than the single one with Adam and apothecary.
If, I must be honest, this is a cooping method. I can't play Dominion Online. I also don't know how to link logs. So I have to settle for IRL Dominion and talking about Scout everywhere I go.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2015, 11:22:34 pm »
0

I think the categories of card that Scout combos well with are:
Cards that benefit from you knowing what's on top of your deck
Functional Alt-VP
Apothecary

Also cards that benefit from reordering your deck. Basically any cantrip combos with Scout. That combo just isn't strong enough to make up for Scout's overall weakness.
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Asper

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2015, 08:19:14 am »
+2

Having a Scout is better than having nothing.
Having a Scout is almost never better than having something else.
You try pointing out "combos" with Scout every other day, but 90% of the time you simply ignore the fact that instead of getting Scout, you could have gotten something else. For almost any of the examples given, a Silver would have been a better purchase instead of Scout.
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Burning Skull

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #31 on: November 26, 2015, 08:32:50 am »
+4

Having a Scout is better than having nothing.

That's an edge case!

Chris is me

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #32 on: November 26, 2015, 09:07:23 am »
0

Having a Scout is better than having nothing.

Is it? I would buy this if it drew a card, but it doesn't, so in a lot of decks it's worse than nothing.
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Awaclus

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #33 on: November 26, 2015, 09:25:05 am »
0

Having a Scout is better than having nothing.

Is it? I would buy this if it drew a card, but it doesn't, so in a lot of decks it's worse than nothing.

It is not, unless your deck is 25% green cards (which is almost never the case) or you can benefit from reordering the top cards enough for that to be worth more than the card you would have had in your hand instead of Scout. In a deck with a lot of Mystics, Scout is probably better than nothing. In a deck with a lot of Wishing Wells, it's probably roughly as good as nothing (depending on the rest of the deck too, obviously).
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Witherweaver

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #34 on: November 26, 2015, 10:32:00 am »
+1

Having a Scout is better than having nothing.

That's an edge case!

It's true, though.  If you're running Tactician + Black Market, say, you need something to discard when you play Tactician.  Without the Scout to discard, you'd have to not play something useful!
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #35 on: November 26, 2015, 10:35:38 am »
+3

Having a Scout is better than having nothing.

That's an edge case!

It's true, though.  If you're running Tactician + Black Market, say, you need something to discard when you play Tactician.  Without the Scout to discard, you'd have to not play something useful!
I don't like what this thread is turning into. You guys seem to love to kick things while they're down.
And I've started taking pictures of each board I win with Scout. I will post the kingdom and the number of Scouts I bought. So the infamous Roadrunner7671 will be back!
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eHalcyon

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #36 on: November 26, 2015, 11:51:35 am »
0

Well, Watchtower synergizes with Scout in the sense that together, they are better than the sum of their individual effects. A Scout hurts you much less when you also have Watchtower. It's just that it still hurts you.

You're saying Scout+Watchtower together are better than just Watchtower alone as an individual part?
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Asper

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2015, 11:55:37 am »
0

When i say having a Scout is better than having nothing, i mean that a hand with four cards plus Scout is better than a hand with just four cards. The "something else" part applies to buying as well as to drawing.
I figured it was obvious from the rest of my post, but apparently the first sentence is a trigger.

Edit: Reading my post again, i see where i failed to get my point across. Oh well.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 11:57:30 am by Asper »
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SCSN

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2015, 12:00:11 pm »
+1

You guys seem to love to kick things while they're down.

We can't help it that Scout isn't man enough to stand.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2015, 12:49:39 pm »
+1

When i say having a Scout is better than having nothing, i mean that a hand with four cards plus Scout is better than a hand with just four cards. The "something else" part applies to buying as well as to drawing.
I figured it was obvious from the rest of my post, but apparently the first sentence is a trigger.

Edit: Reading my post again, i see where i failed to get my point across. Oh well.

That's an odd argument to make in the context of Dominion though.  Yes, freely adding Scout to a hand is often (but not always) better than the exact same hand minus Scout (ignoring that Scout will junk your deck afterwards), but that's not how Dominion works.
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Asper

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2015, 12:57:39 pm »
+2

When i say having a Scout is better than having nothing, i mean that a hand with four cards plus Scout is better than a hand with just four cards. The "something else" part applies to buying as well as to drawing.
I figured it was obvious from the rest of my post, but apparently the first sentence is a trigger.

Edit: Reading my post again, i see where i failed to get my point across. Oh well.

That's an odd argument to make in the context of Dominion though.  Yes, freely adding Scout to a hand is often (but not always) better than the exact same hand minus Scout (ignoring that Scout will junk your deck afterwards), but that's not how Dominion works.

And that was kind of my point. roadrunner listed Pearl Diver, for example. And i say, yes, with Pearl Diver in hand, Scout does something useful. It's better to have that Scout than no card at all. But that doesn't make up for the card you could have had in your hand instead of the Scout, even without considering what you could have bought instead. My long pondering over how to write that in a comprehensive way apparently left me thinking i had said things i didn't say.
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luser

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2015, 04:39:20 pm »
0

Well, Watchtower synergizes with Scout in the sense that together, they are better than the sum of their individual effects. A Scout hurts you much less when you also have Watchtower. It's just that it still hurts you.

You're saying Scout+Watchtower together are better than just Watchtower alone as an individual part?

Except they antisynergize unless you use watchtower reaction to trash scout. With watchtower you draw upto 6, if you play scout before you will draw victory cards instead of something useful.
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Awaclus

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2015, 08:07:48 pm »
0

Well, Watchtower synergizes with Scout in the sense that together, they are better than the sum of their individual effects. A Scout hurts you much less when you also have Watchtower. It's just that it still hurts you.

You're saying Scout+Watchtower together are better than just Watchtower alone as an individual part?

No.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2015, 08:46:09 pm »
0

Well, Watchtower synergizes with Scout in the sense that together, they are better than the sum of their individual effects. A Scout hurts you much less when you also have Watchtower. It's just that it still hurts you.

You're saying Scout+Watchtower together are better than just Watchtower alone as an individual part?

No.

And the part I bolded...?

Oh, I get what you're saying.  But I think a reasonable definition of synergy should also require the combination be better than each individual part on its own.
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Awaclus

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2015, 09:52:19 pm »
0

Oh, I get what you're saying.  But I think a reasonable definition of synergy should also require the combination be better than each individual part on its own.

Well, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that there's synergy between Scout and Watchtower. At least it's somewhat useful. When you have a Scout in your deck, Watchtower is a slightly better purchase than it normally is, and sometimes you receive a Scout in your deck without getting to have a say on the matter.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #45 on: November 26, 2015, 10:06:08 pm »
0

Oh, I get what you're saying.  But I think a reasonable definition of synergy should also require the combination be better than each individual part on its own.

Well, I don't think it's unreasonable to say that there's synergy between Scout and Watchtower. At least it's somewhat useful. When you have a Scout in your deck, Watchtower is a slightly better purchase than it normally is, and sometimes you receive a Scout in your deck without getting to have a say on the matter.

Heh, fair enough. :P
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DoomYoshi

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2015, 11:14:23 am »
0

There should be a tournament level rule: every player must have a scout or all victory cards and tokens are worth 0 at endgame. Also, it should cost 6 to balance all the synergies.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 11:16:28 am by DoomYoshi »
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markusin

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #47 on: November 29, 2015, 11:25:31 am »
0

There should be a tournament level rule: every player must have a scout or all victory cards and tokens are worth 0 at endgame. Also, it should cost 6 to balance all the synergies.
Big buff to trashing attacks though.
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DoomYoshi

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #48 on: November 29, 2015, 11:28:33 am »
0

In all seriousness: the redundancy rules from the Dominion card picker probably includes all the synergies:

\Only allow Scout if there is at least one Baron, Crossroads, Explorer, Hunting Party, Farmland, Menagerie, Mystic, Peddler, Tournament, Tunnel, Wishing Well, Action/Victory, or Treasure/Victory card.
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markusin

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2015, 12:06:07 pm »
0

In all seriousness: the redundancy rules from the Dominion card picker probably includes all the synergies:

\Only allow Scout if there is at least one Baron, Crossroads, Explorer, Hunting Party, Farmland, Menagerie, Mystic, Peddler, Tournament, Tunnel, Wishing Well, Action/Victory, or Treasure/Victory card.

Scrying Pool, Apothecary, and Herald(maybe the list above doesn't include Guilds) synergizes with Scout as well. You'd probably need to combine the synergies above with one of the cards I mentioned before Scout is actually worth it.
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