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Author Topic: Scout Synergies  (Read 15125 times)

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Roadrunner7671

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Scout Synergies
« on: November 23, 2015, 10:48:49 am »
+2

Hello everyone! For some inexplainable reason you clicked on this thread. Maybe for a cheap laugh? Or maybe because you want to learn how to play better with Scout and identify its synergies on any given board. So, I'm here today to help you out! Because of time, I cannot put why each card is a synergy. If you have any questions about a certain card, feel free to ask below! I want the forum to appreciate the versatility and depth of Scout, once thought to be 'a bad card.'

Iguanaiguana will take my side on this. So will liopoli. So let's get started!

All synergies:
Cellar
Chapel
Moat
Village
Bureaucrat (Scout is a counter to it, not a combo with it.)
Gardens
Smithy
Spy
Throne Room
Laboratory
Library (Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. Scout and Library have a complicated relationship.)
Market
Witch
Adventurer
Courtyard
Pawn
Secret Chamber
Great Hall
Masquerade
Shanty Town (with no other actions in your hand.)
Steward
Swindler
Wishing Well
Baron
Conspirator
Ironworks
Mining Village
Duke
Minion
Torturer
Trading Post
Tribute
Upgrade
Harem
Nobles
Haven
Native Village
Pearl Diver
Lookout
Warehouse
Island
Salvager
Bazaar
Explorer
Ghost Ship (It counters Ghost Ship and synergies with it!)
Tactician (Iguanaiguana knows all about this.)
Treasury
Wharf
Apprentice
Vineyard
Apothecary
Scrying Pool
Alchemist
Familiar
Golem
Possession (it counters Possession)
Loan
Trade Route
Watchtower (Liopoli knows all about this.)
Bishop
Worker's Village
City
Rabble (Scout counters it and works with it!)
Vault
Venture
Grand Market
King's Court
Peddler
Hamlet
Menagerie
Farming Village
Horse Traders
Remake
Tournament
Young Witch
Harvest
Horn of Plenty
Hunting Party
Fairgrounds
Followers
Trusty Steed
I'm afraid we'll have to stop at Cornucopia. I will edit this in a few hours, see you all then!
























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Watno

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2015, 11:09:37 am »
+3

You forgot Remodel.
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gkrieg13

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2015, 11:10:36 am »
+25

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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2015, 11:54:01 am »
0

You forgot Remodel.
I probably did.

How does it synergies with Scout? Because you can trash the Scout? Ha, ha.
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2.71828.....

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2015, 11:59:19 am »
+1

Please define "synergy" then let me look at this list. I mean, your list is so exhaustive I don't even know what synergy means anymore
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2015, 12:02:41 pm »
0

Please define "synergy" then let me look at this list. I mean, your list is so exhaustive I don't even know what synergy means anymore
It is better with a Scout than without a Scout. It benefits from Scout.
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Watno

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2015, 12:09:12 pm »
0

You forgot Remodel.
I probably did.

How does it synergies with Scout? Because you can trash the Scout? Ha, ha.

You got it.
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SCSN

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2015, 12:12:11 pm »
0

Please define "synergy" then let me look at this list. I mean, your list is so exhaustive I don't even know what synergy means anymore
It is better with a Scout than without a Scout. It benefits from Scout.

That's a grotesquely silly definition of "synergy".

At the very least the combination of Scout + X has to be better than Cantrip + X because if you hadn't had the Scout in your hand you'd have the next card in your deck. Seen through this more restrictive definition, almost none of the cards you list would be synergetic.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2015, 12:15:47 pm »
0

See SheCantSayNo? This makes Scout better than cantrips.

But you're right, I don't think synergy was the word I was looking for.
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Accatitippi

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2015, 12:17:16 pm »
0

Library (Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. Scout and Library have a complicated relationship.)
With all respect, here you're just parodying yourself. The best way Scout helps Library is by getting itself out of your hand. (the deck rearranging is just marginal to cases where you play Library with >5 cards in hand, since library without scout would have drawn the same 4 cards otherwise.)
The good news is that it doesn't really hurt library either. (except when you play Library with >5 cards in hand, since it can draw green that library wouldn't have reached otherwise).
If you're consistently playing Library for just one or two cards, then you should maybe have skipped library.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2015, 12:19:27 pm »
+1

Yeah. Library wasn't the best choice for this list.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2015, 12:25:26 pm »
+1

You forgot Remodel.
I probably did.

How does it synergies with Scout? Because you can trash the Scout? Ha, ha.

Dude, scout puts estates in your hand that remodel wants to trash! What a great helper card, I want one!
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iguanaiguana

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2015, 12:28:48 pm »
0

Library (Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. Scout and Library have a complicated relationship.)
With all respect, here you're just parodying yourself. The best way Scout helps Library is by getting itself out of your hand. (the deck rearranging is just marginal to cases where you play Library with >5 cards in hand, since library without scout would have drawn the same 4 cards otherwise.)
The good news is that it doesn't really hurt library either. (except when you play Library with >5 cards in hand, since it can draw green that library wouldn't have reached otherwise).
If you're consistently playing Library for just one or two cards, then you should maybe have skipped library.

In a no green deck, scout lets you get a peek at the action cards you are going to be drawing with library such that you have better information on, for instance, whether you want to set aside some of those fishing villages to make sure you draw your second library or whether you are already drawing the second library so you don't need to set them aside.

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Pikanto

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2015, 12:32:01 pm »
+1

on any given kingdom, when there's scout, there are almost always better things to spend $4 on.
You really have to set up a kingdom including crossroads, harem, nobles, great halls, baron AND distant lands, than you could consider a scout or two :-)
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Accatitippi

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2015, 12:52:08 pm »
+1

Library (Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. Scout and Library have a complicated relationship.)
With all respect, here you're just parodying yourself. The best way Scout helps Library is by getting itself out of your hand. (the deck rearranging is just marginal to cases where you play Library with >5 cards in hand, since library without scout would have drawn the same 4 cards otherwise.)
The good news is that it doesn't really hurt library either. (except when you play Library with >5 cards in hand, since it can draw green that library wouldn't have reached otherwise).
If you're consistently playing Library for just one or two cards, then you should maybe have skipped library.

Upon rereading, I was unintentionally very unpolite here, my apologies.
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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2015, 12:53:17 pm »
+1

You guys shouldn't be analyzing the case of having a scout versus no scout, you need to look at having a scout versus having a good 4/3 cost card. This is where Scout loses miserably - it's rarely even better than Silver, and almost always worse than a cantrip would be.

Scout has synergy with... Grand Market? King's Court? Torturer? What the hell dude. You're just listing off literally any case when there is a chance Scout might maybe do something. Your fandom for this card has gotten completely ridiculous.
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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2015, 12:54:16 pm »
0

on any given kingdom, when there's scout, there are almost always better things to spend $4 on.
You really have to set up a kingdom including crossroads, harem, nobles, great halls, baron AND distant lands, than you could consider a scout or two :-)
Throw in Ironworks for an extra boost to Scout and it should really become a desirable purchase.
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funkdoc

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2015, 02:14:02 pm »
+4

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jomini

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2015, 03:45:12 pm »
+1

In a technical sense, where we are looking for a net effect greater than the sum of the two parts, Scout does synergize with lots of stuff. Top deck ordering -> Draw is going to give you more than just draw and more than just Scout (e.g. think about playing draw -> Scout for the the non-synergy version).

However, the amount of synergy is pretty close to zero and while I would take Scout for "free" with a lot of cards, Scout has a very hard time clearing any sort of opportunity cost.

Early game, Silver gets you $5 and Scout, maybe increases your cycling (it can take green out of next hand so you have higher odds hitting $5 next turn, but rarely can it do so without making you lose a $5 this turn). Later on, Scout is pretty much only useful in engines ... but then it has to repeatedly compete with engine component buys.

Practically, you can see synergy with stuff that cares a lot about top decking & maybe + action (e.g. Golem, Journeyman, Wishing well) and dual-victory cards (Nobles, Harem, Great hall). Synergy that is worth buying Scout over other stuff (like villages), pretty much just a few cases come to mind: Mystic and Herald. Both care a lot about knowledge of the top deck and both become very powerful with a small number of Scouts. I am fairly sold on Mystic and Scout is actually a pretty good "spare" buy once the Heralds are gone, but most any other synergy is less power than any other cantrip or perhaps even most non-terminals.
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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2015, 03:47:49 pm »
0

Strongest synergies are Junk Dealer and Rats.
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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2015, 04:52:43 pm »
+3

The strongest synergy with Scout is Swindler, because you can give Scouts to your opponent.  The next strongest synergy is Chapel, so that you can get rid of the Scouts that your opponent gave you.
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Witherweaver

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2015, 05:03:17 pm »
+1

The strongest synergy with Scout is Swindler, because you can give Scouts to your opponent.  The next strongest synergy is Chapel, so that you can get rid of the Scouts that your opponent gave you.

But Junk Dealer and Rats mandate that you trash something, so you need something to trash. 
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liopoil

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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2015, 11:40:31 pm »
+2

Watchtower (Liopoli knows all about this.)
This is absolute nonsense. Watchtower will have nothing to do with the likes of Scout. If you read my list of Watchtower synergies (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11867.0), you'll see that Scout is not on the list. Watchtower is so good that it doesn't need to fake interactions which aren't actually good. The list contains 88 cards, all perfectly legitimate synergies which I will defend to the death, and this was even before Adventures. Meanwhile I'd rather have a random card from my deck in my hand over scout in the majority of cases, with Watchtower in hand or with any of the other cards on this list.

Unless of course you mean that Watchtower can be used to trash scouts being ambassadored or swindled to you, in which case I agree.

EDIT: If Watchtower were removed I would be much more inclined to 'accept' this list.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2015, 11:44:58 pm by liopoil »
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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2015, 11:51:20 pm »
0

Well, Watchtower synergizes with Scout in the sense that together, they are better than the sum of their individual effects. A Scout hurts you much less when you also have Watchtower. It's just that it still hurts you.
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Re: Scout Synergies
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2015, 01:47:33 am »
0

I think the categories of card that Scout combos well with are:
Cards that benefit from you knowing what's on top of your deck
Functional Alt-VP
Apothecary
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