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Moneymodel

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Max Out Mint
« on: November 19, 2015, 12:25:52 am »
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I was going to write this differently, then I realized this was a subforum and I should post it here.

How many cards can you trash with Mint?

Rule deviations:
  • You start with your deck in your hand every turn
  • There is no three-pile ending rule (to keep things slightly interesting, the game can still end by draining Provinces or Colonies).

Also, a slight bending of the spirit of the game: you need your opponent’s help.

There is a best kingdom, and there is a max number. The kingdom is slightly arguable, but the max number is absolute (as in, I don’t think it’s possible to be topped). Post the kingdom and the number.
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faust

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2015, 03:22:36 am »
+2

This isn't too hard, right? Well, some tricks need to be made.

Kingdom:
Fool's Gold, Coin of the Realm, Black Market, Loan (Bane), Masterpiece, Philosopher's Stone, Quarry, Talisman, Contraband, Mint, Royal Seal

Colonies included obviously.

Black Market deck contains: Ambassador, Tournament, Young Witch, Venture, Horn of Plenty, Cache, Counterfeit, Ill-Gotten Gains, Relic, Treasure Trove, Stash, Harem, Hoard, Bank

So we have 60 Coppers (you opponent can pass you his via Ambassador), 40 Silvers, 30 Golds, 16 Potions, 12 Platina, 9*10 Kingdom Treasures, 11 Black Market Treasures, Diadem.

Overall 260 Treasures. (Sadly, there is no way to include Spoils)
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faust

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2015, 03:25:47 am »
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By the way, I think it would be possible without the additional rule that you draw your whole deck if you first buy all the Treasures and then spend turns buying Travelling Fairs/Expeditions.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2015, 05:25:44 am »
+3

You could put Mint in the Black Market and have another pile of kingdom treasures.
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faust

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2015, 05:27:45 am »
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You could put Mint in the Black Market and have another pile of kingdom treasures.

That right of course; it ups the number to 269.
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faust

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2015, 05:35:57 am »
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By the way, I think it would be possible without the additional rule that you draw your whole deck if you first buy all the Treasures and then spend turns buying Travelling Fairs/Expeditions.

Thinking about this, a way of guaranteeing to eventually draw your deck is to put Prince, King's Court, Throne Room, Scheme , Herbalist in the BM deck and Bank in the Supply.

Set up Prince -> TR.
Play TR -> King's Court -> Scheme/Herbalist.
But KC/Scheme/Herbalist/3*Bank on top of your deck.

In order to buy more Expeditions, each 2 more cards you draw have to net at least $5 ($3 for Expedition, $2 for Travelling Fair). Since you only have treasures, you will draw 2 Treasures each turn, increasing the value of your Banks by $2 each. That's enough.
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faust

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2015, 05:40:20 am »
+2

Now the follow-up question is how close to the 269 number do you get with standard rules (i.e. three-piling allowed)?
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2015, 07:05:09 am »
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Bro am I missing something?

Just put Bandit Camp in the Black Market deck for 15 more treasures!
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Burning Skull

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2015, 07:08:01 am »
+2

Bro am I missing something?

You do. You can't trash Spoils with Mint.

Roadrunner7671

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2015, 07:08:56 am »
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Bro am I missing something?

You do. You can't trash Spoils with Mint.
Oh, yes. Thank you.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2015, 09:57:54 am »
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One of the treasures should be Harem so you have 12, not 10. Assume 3 player game. Also, you are allowed to combine the basic treasures from intrigue to have twice as many.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2015, 11:57:12 am »
+2

One of the treasures should be Harem so you have 12, not 10. Assume 3 player game. Also, you are allowed to combine the basic treasures from intrigue to have twice as many.
Or assume a 99999999 player game for more Coppers and Silvers and Golds.
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Moneymodel

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2015, 01:19:27 pm »
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This isn't too hard, right? Well, some tricks need to be made.

Kingdom:
Fool's Gold, Coin of the Realm, Black Market, Loan (Bane), Masterpiece, Philosopher's Stone, Quarry, Talisman, Contraband, Mint, Royal Seal

Colonies included obviously.

Black Market deck contains: Ambassador, Tournament, Young Witch, Venture, Horn of Plenty, Cache, Counterfeit, Ill-Gotten Gains, Relic, Treasure Trove, Stash, Harem, Hoard, Bank

So we have 60 Coppers (you opponent can pass you his via Ambassador), 40 Silvers, 30 Golds, 16 Potions, 12 Platina, 9*10 Kingdom Treasures, 11 Black Market Treasures, Diadem.

Overall 260 Treasures. (Sadly, there is no way to include Spoils)

Dang, I forgot you could have the Bane pile with YW in the BM deck. But yes, as others have stated, Mint should be in the BM deck, and Harem should be out of it, increasing the number by 2. That's 271 total.

Of course, if you have a three-player game and only one Ambassador, only one person can buy it. Fortunately, that same person can buy Masquerade from the BM deck and pass the Ambassador to the third player. Estates or Black Markets can be passed at the same time to avoid interrupting the stream of Treasures to you.

As to the Treasures in the Kingdom, my thought was to prioritize cards that help you gain. I had Masterpiece, Talisman, Contraband, Counterfeit, Horn, IGG, Treasure Trove, Harem, and Hoard
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eHalcyon

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2015, 02:13:48 pm »
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One of the treasures should be Harem so you have 12, not 10. Assume 3 player game. Also, you are allowed to combine the basic treasures from intrigue to have twice as many.
Or assume a 99999999 player game for more Coppers and Silvers and Golds.

The rules don't allow for that.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2015, 02:41:16 pm »
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One of the treasures should be Harem so you have 12, not 10. Assume 3 player game. Also, you are allowed to combine the basic treasures from intrigue to have twice as many.
Or assume a 99999999 player game for more Coppers and Silvers and Golds.

The rules don't allow for that.
The rules say nothing about this.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2015, 03:05:08 pm »
+2

One of the treasures should be Harem so you have 12, not 10. Assume 3 player game. Also, you are allowed to combine the basic treasures from intrigue to have twice as many.
Or assume a 99999999 player game for more Coppers and Silvers and Golds.

The rules don't allow for that.
The rules say nothing about this.

Which means do rules don't allow it.  Game rules tell you what you can do, not what you can't.
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liopoil

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2015, 05:01:23 pm »
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You don't need either of the rule deviations. Here's a revised version of faust's first post:

Kingdom:
Fool's Gold, Coin of the Realm, Black Market, Loan (Bane), Masterpiece, Philosopher's Stone, Quarry, Talisman, Horn of Plenty, Venture, Harem

Colonies included obviously.

Black Market deck contains: Ambassador, Tournament, Young Witch, Mint, Scheme, Hermit, Contraband, Cache, Counterfeit, Ill-Gotten Gains, Relic, Treasure Trove, Stash, Royal Seal, Hoard, Bank

So we have 60 Coppers (you opponent can pass you his via Ambassador), 40 Silvers, 30 Golds, 16 Potions, 12 Platina, 10*10 Kingdom Treasures, 10 Black Market Treasures, Diadem, 2 extra harems, for 271 treasures total.

Draw your deck by repeatedly using the scheme-hermit trick to get madmen without trashing the hermit, eventually you have all 10 which will draw your deck easily.

As for gaining the last card from every pile, there are still 11 spots in the Black Market deck, which I'm sure are enough to do that. Your turn looks like:

-Play 9 Madmen and Necropolis to draw all put one card from every pile and have 11 actions left.
-Play actions to gain the rest of the cards somehow
-Play the last Madman to draw the the rest of the cards
-Play Black Market and your treasures, buy mint.

Some good Black Market cards would be develop, stonemason, fortress, haggler. I'd play a black market at some point, buy the last platinum gaining another card, also playing the treasures which gain cards. Actually, with HoP in the kingdom there should be no problem anyway.
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managore

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2015, 06:30:47 am »
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I imagine this is fully against the spirit of the question but you could Graverob the treasure back into your deck, Ambassador your Mint back into the supply pile and repeat ad infinitum.
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ephesos

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2015, 01:14:31 am »
+1

Has nobody mentioned Plan yet? You can trash 1 Spoils from your hand, to get one more than whatever max has already been posted. Unless buying Mint and trashing Spoils counts as trashing it with Plan instead of trashing it with Mint? i.e. cards have to be trashed as a result of Mint's specific on-buy effect, and not just as a result of buying Mint.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 01:17:22 am by ephesos »
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Burning Skull

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2015, 04:20:21 am »
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Has nobody mentioned Plan yet? You can trash 1 Spoils from your hand, to get one more than whatever max has already been posted. Unless buying Mint and trashing Spoils counts as trashing it with Plan instead of trashing it with Mint? i.e. cards have to be trashed as a result of Mint's specific on-buy effect, and not just as a result of buying Mint.

I don't think you can put your trashing token on the Spoils pile: it's not in the Supply.

faust

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2015, 04:26:31 am »
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Has nobody mentioned Plan yet? You can trash 1 Spoils from your hand, to get one more than whatever max has already been posted. Unless buying Mint and trashing Spoils counts as trashing it with Plan instead of trashing it with Mint? i.e. cards have to be trashed as a result of Mint's specific on-buy effect, and not just as a result of buying Mint.

I don't think you can put your trashing token on the Spoils pile: it's not in the Supply.

The trashing token would be on Mint though.

EDIT: And since Mint is in the BM deck in the optimal solution, I'm afraid this does not work.
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Burning Skull

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Re: Max Out Mint
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2015, 04:27:47 am »
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Has nobody mentioned Plan yet? You can trash 1 Spoils from your hand, to get one more than whatever max has already been posted. Unless buying Mint and trashing Spoils counts as trashing it with Plan instead of trashing it with Mint? i.e. cards have to be trashed as a result of Mint's specific on-buy effect, and not just as a result of buying Mint.

I don't think you can put your trashing token on the Spoils pile: it's not in the Supply.

The trashing token would be on Mint though.

Whoops. Sorry, I got confused. Thank you for clarifying it for me.
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