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Author Topic: Midrange Hunter  (Read 974 times)

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chairs

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Midrange Hunter
« on: November 17, 2015, 07:55:04 pm »
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So, I made this list. I'm doing pretty well with it EXCEPT against Secrets Paladin, which is just stupid good all the time. I think the only games I've lost have been Secrets Paladin and I think -1- game vs aggro hunter where I mulligan'd into longbow/longbow/lion and didn't draw anything at all useful til a mad scientist on turn 3 (which immediately got ironbeaked).

Anyway, list is as follows (please feel free to critique):

Timber Wolf x2
Webspinner x2
Bear Trap x2
Explosive Trap x2
Dire Wolf Alpha x2
Ironbeak Owl x2
Mad Scientist x2
Scavenging Hyena x2
Kill Command x2
Unleash the Hounds x2
Core Rager x2
Houndmaster x2
Tundra Rhino x2
Savannah Highmane x2
Gladiator's Longbow x2

Awaclus

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Re: Midrange Hunter
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2015, 08:48:00 pm »
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The midrange Hunter I used for getting to rank 5 last season was this:

2 Webspinner
2 Flare (a late addition to almost guarantee victories against Eboladin, which was a vast majority of the decks at that rank at that time)
2 Freezing Trap (sometimes just 1 (and something like Defender of Argus, Hunter's Mark or another Ironbeak), sometimes 1 Freezing/1 Explosive)
2 Haunted Creeper
1 Ironbeak Owl
2 Knife Juggler
2 Mad Scientist
2 Eaglehorn Bow
2 Animal Companion
1 Powershot
2 Unleash the Hounds
1 Houndmaster
1 Kezan Mystic
2 Piloted Shredder
1 Loatheb
2 Sludge Belcher
2 Savannah Highmane
1 Dr. Boom

I don't really like Beast synergy in midrange Hunter, it sucks when you draw it without the Beasts and there's just so much non-Beast stuff that you want to be playing. Houndmaster is good though, because it's just an incredibly good card that does exactly what this deck needs. People have had success with Ram Wrangler as well, and Kill Command is actually pretty common but while it's very mana-efficient, I don't think that 5 damage for $3 is what this deck really needs right now in the current meta.

Knife Juggler and Piloted Shredder are essential. They are incredibly powerful and you can expect to get tons of value out of them, which is exactly what midrange decks need. Animal Companion is also good, you don't always get the minion that you want, but you always get a minion that's significantly ahead of the curve unless you get Leokk with no other minions.

I also really like Eaglehorn Bow. I've seen some people run only one copy of it, but I've never been unhappy with my second copy. Even if it's just a Fiery War Axe for $3, that's still pretty good, and oftentimes it's better.

I don't think you want to spend 4 slots from your deck for traps. It's always pretty dissatisfying to draw them instead of Mad Scientisting into them, because they aren't very good cards if you actually have to pay the mana cost and spend a card. Bear Trap and Explosive Trap are fine, but I think you should probably have exactly two traps and have at least one of them be Freezing Trap.

Timber Wolf and Tundra Rhino are trash even if you want to keep some Beast synergy in. Scavenging Hyena only slightly less so. Dire Wolf Alpha and Core Rager are trash regardless of Beast synergy.

Grujah

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Re: Midrange Hunter
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2015, 09:26:45 pm »
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So, I made this list. I'm doing pretty well with it EXCEPT against Secrets Paladin, which is just stupid good all the time. I think the only games I've lost have been Secrets Paladin and I think -1- game vs aggro hunter where I mulligan'd into longbow/longbow/lion and didn't draw anything at all useful til a mad scientist on turn 3 (which immediately got ironbeaked).

Anyway, list is as follows (please feel free to critique):

Timber Wolf x2
Webspinner x2
Bear Trap x2
Explosive Trap x2
Dire Wolf Alpha x2
Ironbeak Owl x2
Mad Scientist x2
Scavenging Hyena x2
Kill Command x2
Unleash the Hounds x2
Core Rager x2
Houndmaster x2
Tundra Rhino x2
Savannah Highmane x2
Gladiator's Longbow x2

Ugh, 2 Longbows, 2 Rhino, 2 Core Rager and 2 Hyenas are all one too many. Drawing two of any of those is quite a bummer, imho. And I do not see the need for timberwolves either - what do the do that you want? You are middrange, you need good strong bodies not 1/1s for 1.

Why Explosive trap over Freezing in Midrange? You get way more milage from freezing in non-aggro decks.
You want eaglehorn bow. It is your best weapon, it is on par with Deathbite/Truesliver, and that says a lot.
You need a reliable taunt too. A Belcher. or at least a Tazdingo.

And the biggest issue of all - no Animal Companion? Companion is by far THE best hunter 3 drop, and you got no 3 drops at all. I do not see a reason for it to be cut from any hunter deck now, and in near future too.
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Awaclus

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Re: Midrange Hunter
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2015, 09:54:12 pm »
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You need a reliable taunt too. A Belcher. or at least a Tazdingo.

I don't think that's necessary. I like running 2 Belchers, but some people are doing pretty well without any reliable taunts.

popsofctown

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Re: Midrange Hunter
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2015, 10:32:35 pm »
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No, you definitely don't want tazdingo in midrange hunter.  It's impossible for the games he saves you to outweigh his poor pressure.  Tazdingo is actually way worse than a lot of the cards you "called out" in the context of midrange hunter, even though he's really solid in virtually every other archetype.

We know you have Shredders, chairs, there's no reason to leave them out of any sort of hunter deck.  It's a nutty card.

I wouldn't come down so hard on Timber Wolf and Hyena.  They definitely aren't used in 100% optimized Midrange Hunter lists, but if you wanted one of those, you could look those up, you know where they are.  Both cards aren't awful.  Both Timber Wolf and Hyena were used in high level tournament play back in a previous meta, and I don't think anything that has made an appearance in high level tournament play in SOME meta is total garbage.

Core Rager and Gladiator's Longbow are harder to love.  It's cool to have opened two copies of an epic, but the longbow is very often an expensive Arcanite Reaper, and there are better options.  (1 might be ok, definitely not two)  Core Rager is generally worse than Lost Tallstrider based on my experiences trying to dump hand for Quick Shot, and also there's an issue with 4 drops not comboing with Houndmaster very well.  If you manage to stick your turn 2 or turn 3 beast, you want to play Houndmaster himself turn 4.  If you can't make a beast stick for turn 4, you have to wait until you can play a beast and Houndmaster it the same turn.  With 2 drop beasts, that can happen turn 6, which is a decently relevant time.  With Core Rager, it can't happen until turn 8, which is too late to be relevant in far too many cases.  So decks that use Houndmaster really don't like 4 cost beasts. 

Tundra Rhino is just never a 2-of because you don't want to draw 2.  1 might be ok.

Tiger, Spiderbabies, Snake Trap, Flare, King's Elekk, those are some cards you might want to think about in general for this type of list.  I would not craft any of them.  Midrange hunter is very versatile and it is not so hard to replace cards with alternates.

It is correct that you absolutely need Animal Companion.  The card is just too good.

If you are having trouble with Secret Pally, the obvious thing is, run Flare.  However, you might not want to craft Flare.  Crafting rares is dust inefficient: so dust inefficient, I only have 1 Flare myself, and I have a BIG collection.  If you haven't cracked a Flare yet, I would recommend trying Tracking.  Tracking can work like the third, or half of the third, Kill Command, which can jump over Noble Sacrifice and Tirion to finish off the secret Pally when they try to stabilize.
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chairs

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Re: Midrange Hunter
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2015, 06:31:12 pm »
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Updated list based on your feedback.  I don't have Boom yet.

Leper Gnome x2
Undertaker x2
Flare x2
Freezing Trap x2
Ironbeak owl x2
Mad Scientist x2
Eaglehorn Bow x2
Animal Companion x2
Kill Command x2
Unleash the Hounds x2
Baron Rivendare
Defender of Argus x2
Piloted Shredder x2
Sludge Belcher x2
Justicar Trueheart
Savannah Highmane x2

I already know I should get rid of justicar and probably baron rivendare too. The flares have ironically only been "draw a card" since I put them in as I haven't played eboladin or even "Hi I'm running shade of naxx" people.

chairs

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Re: Midrange Hunter
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2015, 06:44:05 pm »
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Debating replacing the two I mentioned with just 2x haunted creeper.

I kept debating making room for knife juggler, but I just keep not getting value out of knife juggler so I'm not sure how I'd change that.

The eaglehorns have won me multiples games which is nice, and I'm usually getting at least a 3-point swing from undertaker in games where I get it in my opening (and haven't seen it any other time).

Defender's been kind of touch and go, but I've won games by dropping it to win a turn before my opponent could pump lethal into me (using the effective +2 attack from teh drop to finish out lethal in conjunction with hero power). I think I should probably trash it for something else, maybe azures or antique healbots?

qmech

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Re: Midrange Hunter
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2015, 06:52:08 pm »
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I already know I should get rid of justicar and probably baron rivendare too. The flares have ironically only been "draw a card" since I put them in as I haven't played eboladin or even "Hi I'm running shade of naxx" people.

I'd add Undertaker and Argus to that list too.

The big problem is that you only have the Scientists that you're happy to play on T2.  Midrange Hunter needs the board going into the mid game.  Haunted Creeper and Knife Juggler are the best options if you have them, with Elekk not far behind.

PPE: Definitely do the Creepers.  The best cases for Knife Juggler are with Unleash on 5, or when popping spiders and there is a chance for good juggles.  It's also something you can play on 2 if you have to, and will usually at least trade.  Azure Drake and Healbot are far too slow.  You want to kill people before the extra cards or health become relevant.
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chairs

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Re: Midrange Hunter
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2015, 06:56:02 pm »
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I already know I should get rid of justicar and probably baron rivendare too. The flares have ironically only been "draw a card" since I put them in as I haven't played eboladin or even "Hi I'm running shade of naxx" people.

I'd add Undertaker and Argus to that list too.

The big problem is that you only have the Scientists that you're happy to play on T2.  Midrange Hunter needs the board going into the mid game.  Haunted Creeper and Knife Juggler are the best options if you have them, with Elekk not far behind.

PPE: Definitely do the Creepers.  The best cases for Knife Juggler are with Unleash on 5, or when popping spiders and there is a chance for good juggles.  It's also something you can play on 2 if you have to, and will usually at least trade.  Azure Drake and Healbot are far too slow.  You want to kill people before the extra cards or health become relevant.

It sounds like you're sending me back to face hunter, LOL. The more we refine this deck, the further we get back to my face hunter!

I don't have Elekk, sadly.

I guess I can drop the undertaker, but I feel like then I'm lacking T1 drops.

EDIT:

Knife Juggler x2 in, Defender of Argus x2 out.
Haunted Creeper x2 in, Baron Rivendare / Justicar Trueheart out.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2015, 06:57:27 pm by chairs »
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qmech

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Re: Midrange Hunter
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2015, 07:16:51 pm »
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It sounds like you're sending me back to face hunter, LOL. The more we refine this deck, the further we get back to my face hunter!

I don't have Elekk, sadly.

I guess I can drop the undertaker, but I feel like then I'm lacking T1 drops.

Midrange is basically Face with Shredder and Highmane instead of 1-drops and chargers.  You keep a hold on the board for the first few turns then smash face with bigger minions.

Midrange doesn't necessarily need 1-drops.  I run 2 Webspinners, but you don't absolutely have to play something on T1.  If you want to be less Facey then you could take out the Leper Gnomes and put in Webspinners or Quickshot (good for trading early as well as burn later) if you have it.  The Leper Gnomes pull you towards Face (or Hybrid), which doesn't fit so well with the Belchers.
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popsofctown

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Re: Midrange Hunter
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2015, 05:53:28 pm »
+1

Not playing a one drop is kind of like playing 0 drop that says, "destroy a friendly Murloc Raider and draw 2 cards".  It reflects a midrange or control deck's desire to invest in their hand and the future instead rush out something unimpressive.  It's not a true "failure to act" or somesuch.

Justicar Trueheart is worse than Nightblade.  Sorry.

I'm a hipster, I've omitted Knife Juggler from my hunter builds for a long time and still managed to do well.  I just don't like him that much. 

2 mana 3/4 beasts like Spiderbabies, I have a harder time omitting those and getting some sleep at night.
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