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Author Topic: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Town Wins!)  (Read 11584 times)

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faust

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2275 on: December 15, 2015, 12:16:47 pm »

I'm sorry, do you have a better scum!You explanation than the one I proposed?

Do you have a better explanation for what happened than a single role that may or may not be in the game and in any case could have been used more effectively?
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

faust

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2276 on: December 15, 2015, 12:18:14 pm »

You know what?

Vote: Hydrad

He is scummy, and a flip here just might help you all realize that WW is indeed lying.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Roadrunner7671

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2277 on: December 15, 2015, 12:20:52 pm »

A flip from Hydrad seems okay. But a flip from WW seems better. Vote: WitherWeaver
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Oh God someone delete this before Roadrunner sees it.

Witherweaver

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2278 on: December 15, 2015, 12:20:57 pm »

I'm sorry, do you have a better scum!You explanation than the one I proposed?

Do you have a better explanation for what happened than a single role that may or may not be in the game and in any case could have been used more effectively?

The attitude is annoying; you're downplaying the likelihood of this possibility that is really not very unlikely.  Especially considering this only options are you are lying or there was redirection.
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Haddock

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2279 on: December 15, 2015, 12:27:53 pm »

Great timing, there, RR.  ;)


Sudden activity.  I will think about these things.

Meantime, I just read Igu.

He's towny all through D1 (up to potentially faking an incorrect bolding to get town points, which comes out null to me), but scummy here and there in D2.  Overall null from that, probably.
The main reason he's not scum to my eyes is his big fight with SS.  If he were scum he'd have been pushing to avoid the SS kill because it looks suspicious.  Scum!igu makes an SS Night Kill make no sense.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (1-1, 50%): 42 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Witherweaver

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2280 on: December 15, 2015, 12:35:37 pm »

Okay, thought.  If Faust and I are both town, then we're symmetric with respect to scum position.  We should look to people that were quick to believe both claims.

This points to... Yuma, e, Teproc

Iguana's response is more townie.  RR's maybe townie; I can't really tell with him. 

Egor's maybe scummy too; Haddock I'm not sure.

I think

Vote: Teproc

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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2281 on: December 15, 2015, 12:43:56 pm »

Out of the possibilities this is the more probable, but still less likely than the likelihood of ww just being town and bread crumbing...

Just because something is possible doesn't mean it is probable.

You mean to say less likely than WW being town and breadcrumbing and scum having a redirecting power and scum using it on me?

Maybe. However, one we can learn more about throughout the rest of this game (results or role usage that implies redirection on other nights)... whereas the breadcrumb we can't.
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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2282 on: December 15, 2015, 12:44:36 pm »

The argument seems to be that scum!WW immediately breadcrumbs, while town!WW does not... but I don't understand why.

OK...
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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2283 on: December 15, 2015, 12:45:40 pm »

the problem with what amaphorus is suggesting is that he is saying that mafia will eliminate a potential fake scum read and potential mislynch (WW posting that hydrad is townie) for the sake of having a breadcrumb.

Hydrad need not be town. And scum!WW does not need to use that breadcrumb if he feels it would be detrimental.

Sure that is a possibility. Again, this is something that we can learn more information about as the game goes on. And I am going to just come out and say that rarely does scum tie in a partner with a fakeclaim (see Edmund's fake claim in GOP) unless it is absoluately necessary (ash/gk masons)
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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2284 on: December 15, 2015, 12:47:35 pm »

I have to admit I'm scared of rereads... 91 pages is a lot of stuff. Could there be scum intentionally spamming the thread to make rereads hard? I know someone proposed that way back in my first scum game (M31). None of my then-teammates is in this game sadly.

One of the mods is though!
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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2285 on: December 15, 2015, 12:49:03 pm »

You know what?

Vote: Hydrad

He is scummy, and a flip here just might help you all realize that WW is indeed lying.

A flip from Hydrad seems okay. But a flip from WW seems better. Vote: WitherWeaver

I am highly suspicious of the other if other flips...
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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2286 on: December 15, 2015, 12:49:22 pm »

sorry... the above post isn't clear. suspicious of hydrad/RR
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faust

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2287 on: December 15, 2015, 12:49:50 pm »

I have to admit I'm scared of rereads... 91 pages is a lot of stuff. Could there be scum intentionally spamming the thread to make rereads hard? I know someone proposed that way back in my first scum game (M31). None of my then-teammates is in this game sadly.

One of the mods is though!

Yes... man, I'm sure I've said it before, but that was such an awesome game to have my first scum performance in!
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2288 on: December 15, 2015, 12:51:43 pm »

man... i was willing to do a teproc lynch like 560 pages ago. But that wasn't happening. and now you want to start it up again?

I mean.... We can't just have new wagons popping up all over the place when perfectly acceptable ones can't even get to L-2. It is just absurd. I don't know if it hurts us as town, but it is really frustrating to push for something, have everyone ignore or fight against it... then to move somewhere else and build something good only to have what you were pushing for become a thing and the other thing collapse around you again...
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Witherweaver

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2289 on: December 15, 2015, 12:54:10 pm »

man... i was willing to do a teproc lynch like 560 pages ago. But that wasn't happening. and now you want to start it up again?

I mean.... We can't just have new wagons popping up all over the place when perfectly acceptable ones can't even get to L-2. It is just absurd. I don't know if it hurts us as town, but it is really frustrating to push for something, have everyone ignore or fight against it... then to move somewhere else and build something good only to have what you were pushing for become a thing and the other thing collapse around you again...

The paint is always brighter on the other wagon.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2290 on: December 15, 2015, 12:56:58 pm »

man... i was willing to do a teproc lynch like 560 pages ago. But that wasn't happening. and now you want to start it up again?

I mean.... We can't just have new wagons popping up all over the place when perfectly acceptable ones can't even get to L-2. It is just absurd. I don't know if it hurts us as town, but it is really frustrating to push for something, have everyone ignore or fight against it... then to move somewhere else and build something good only to have what you were pushing for become a thing and the other thing collapse around you again...

Better watch out Yuma. If you seem frustrated then Teproc and Roadrunner are gunna call you out.
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Teproc

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2291 on: December 15, 2015, 01:00:23 pm »

man... i was willing to do a teproc lynch like 560 pages ago. But that wasn't happening. and now you want to start it up again?

I mean.... We can't just have new wagons popping up all over the place when perfectly acceptable ones can't even get to L-2. It is just absurd. I don't know if it hurts us as town, but it is really frustrating to push for something, have everyone ignore or fight against it... then to move somewhere else and build something good only to have what you were pushing for become a thing and the other thing collapse around you again...

Better watch out Yuma. If you seem frustrated then Teproc and Roadrunner are gunna call you out.

I'm just annoyed by people continually complaining that this game sucks and implying that some things have not gotten scrutiny when in fact they have gotten infinite amounts of scrutiny, it's just that people disagreeabout them.
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Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.

iguanaiguana

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2292 on: December 15, 2015, 01:08:12 pm »

man... i was willing to do a teproc lynch like 560 pages ago. But that wasn't happening. and now you want to start it up again?

I mean.... We can't just have new wagons popping up all over the place when perfectly acceptable ones can't even get to L-2. It is just absurd. I don't know if it hurts us as town, but it is really frustrating to push for something, have everyone ignore or fight against it... then to move somewhere else and build something good only to have what you were pushing for become a thing and the other thing collapse around you again...

Better watch out Yuma. If you seem frustrated then Teproc and Roadrunner are gunna call you out.

I'm just annoyed by people continually complaining that this game sucks and implying that some things have not gotten scrutiny when in fact they have gotten infinite amounts of scrutiny, it's just that people disagreeabout them.

Ok, first of all, I'm sorry for some of my previous comments. My frustration is with the game and not with the players, if that makes any sense. I understand why people don't want to lynch where I want to lynch. But I disagree. And just like there isn't anything you can do to magically change your mind so that we are in agreement, there's nothing I can do to magically agree with you. And so through no fault of any particular person that I can see, the game is going nowhere and it seems right now to be to the great detriment of town. Hence, my previous negative posts about this game. I meant no harm to anyone's opinions. In particular, Teproc, you are playing in a weigh that I highly respect and could stand to learn from.

As for the recent developments, Faust brings up some decent points about Hydrad. But Faust is also my highest scum read and that hasn't really changed... so I don't know what to think about it exactly.

@WW: Teproc still seems like a worse vote than Hydrad/Egor/Haddock to me.
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Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2293 on: December 15, 2015, 01:08:53 pm »

"weigh" clearly should be "whey"
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You are my favorite reptile.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.
All iguanas are equal. But some iguanas are more equal than others.

faust

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2294 on: December 15, 2015, 01:16:42 pm »

And so through no fault of any particular person that I can see, the game is going nowhere and it seems right now to be to the great detriment of town.

Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Ampharos

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2295 on: December 15, 2015, 01:18:15 pm »

I feel the same way. 

And such I propose a novel new idea: We lynch the WW.

I propose a novel new idea: read and respond (ideally by moving your vote elsewhere) to the posts that completely shut down your reasons for wanting to lynch WW.

Haven't seen 'em.
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Ampharos

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2296 on: December 15, 2015, 01:36:34 pm »

Let me pose a scenario to you.

Under moderate but not suffocating early day pressure, Player A says they have a result on Player B.  Player B gets very defensive and refuses to be of cooperation.  Town cumulatively decides to have them both claim.  Player A goes first, opening with a claim.  Player B comes up with the following claim that fits Player As initial read claim perfectly:

Player B says their role is a role that cannot be proved, is rather weak, but could be of some use to town if true.  To support this, they go back to previous posts which include a moderate flavor claim, and highlight some reluctance to join Player Cs wagon, on whom they claim to have used their unprovable role.



Now ask yourself, does Player B sound like scum? Is it not far to convenient an escape?  A weak town PR to give more cred than VT, evidence of not wanting to vote for someone being construed as having read them earlier, and mild flavor claim.  It sounds good, until you realize where this all came from in the first place: this player just so happened to target THE EXACT SAME PERSON WHO DIED TO SCUM LAST NIGHT.

What are the odds!  I mean really!  Sure, SS made a good bit of noise, but come on!  WW was seen targeting the dead person.  Dont give me that redirection stuff.  The odds of a redirection on top of both these claims being correct is so slim. 

Im going to the most simple explanation:  I read faust as different.  He was: he has an investigative role.  He saw WW targetting SS for the mafia kill.  WW comes back with an explanation that cannot be proved. 

To me, the odds of WW being scum are much larger than anyone else we go after, and I have yet to see a good argument for why not.
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Teproc

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2297 on: December 15, 2015, 01:40:47 pm »

Her's the thing AMpharos : you're focusing on the weaker parts of the argument against scum!WW, which are all the breadcrumb things. I mostly agree with you that the breadcrumbs are mostly null.

In the process, you are ignoring the fact that, while it might be a convenient claim, it's a very specific claim, and not as convenient as it could be. Why doesn't WW claim to be a town role having targeted HYdrad here ? Why does he complicate his life by directly contradicting faust, yet not really pushing for his lynch ?
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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2298 on: December 15, 2015, 01:43:27 pm »

that is a possible situation. No one is saying that it isn't. What I am saying is that we have an opportunity, on future nights, to learn more about the accuracy of that situation. We should take advantage of that opportunity while we have it rather than simply jump to conclusions.

And as teproc states you are ignoring a large amount of other issues that crop up that have been thoroughly analyzed and conveniently and persistently ignored by you.
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Teproc

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #2299 on: December 15, 2015, 01:45:07 pm »

My above post should say silverspawn instead of Hydrad, sorry about that.
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Mafia play advice: If you are not content with the way the game is going, always assume that it is your fault.
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