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Author Topic: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Town Wins!)  (Read 324170 times)

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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1000 on: December 04, 2015, 07:36:09 am »

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faust

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1001 on: December 04, 2015, 08:03:24 am »

Haddock, you say "classic town!awa". What traits are town for him? What are scum?

I believe the general consensus is that scum!Awaclus tends to be more chatty, helpful, and willing to engage in discussions. Awaclus said so himself somewhere. One would think that it is easy for him to emulate his lurky, unhelpful town meta, but Awaclus most recent scum game (M71) showed that it's hard for him... I vigged him there partly due to his activity level.

Haddock can correct me if he meant something else.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1002 on: December 04, 2015, 08:05:20 am »

And secondly, I am not sure how much use you are to town if you come back here, but refuse to scumhunt (scumhunting kinda necessitates reading everything).

But if we are lynching based on not reading the thread, we need to lynch RR here (and probably every game) because he's constantly posting stuff like this:

Why did you come back?

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Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

Haddock

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1003 on: December 04, 2015, 08:05:40 am »

Haddock, you say "classic town!awa". What traits are town for him? What are scum?

I believe the general consensus is that scum!Awaclus tends to be more chatty, helpful, and willing to engage in discussions. Awaclus said so himself somewhere. One would think that it is easy for him to emulate his lurky, unhelpful town meta, but Awaclus most recent scum game (M71) showed that it's hard for him... I vigged him there partly due to his activity level.

Haddock can correct me if he meant something else.
No this is pretty much exactly what I meant.
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
Modded: M75, M84, RMM38.     Mislynched (M-RMM): None - 42.     Correctly lynched (M-RMM): 101 - 33, 33, 35.       MVPs: RMM37, M87

Witherweaver

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1004 on: December 04, 2015, 08:44:48 am »

oh wow! that is kinda close to a lynch.

I'll be honest... I am surprised... by two in particular

So, I think (whether or not you intended it) you created quite a bit of content.  Want to analyze your wagon?

If someone wants to analyze it I can analyze their analysis.

To dawg, I heard you like to analyze.  So I analyzed your analysis so you can analyze an analysis analysis.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1005 on: December 04, 2015, 08:45:04 am »

*Your
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Witherweaver

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1006 on: December 04, 2015, 08:45:29 am »

!Yo.  Damn phone
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Awaclus

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1007 on: December 04, 2015, 08:52:55 am »

Haddock, you say "classic town!awa". What traits are town for him? What are scum?

I believe the general consensus is that scum!Awaclus tends to be more chatty, helpful, and willing to engage in discussions. Awaclus said so himself somewhere. One would think that it is easy for him to emulate his lurky, unhelpful town meta, but Awaclus most recent scum game (M71) showed that it's hard for him... I vigged him there partly due to his activity level.

Haddock can correct me if he meant something else.

What I've been saying is that I'm more likely to explain votes (which is not helpful, for the record) as scum. This is no longer true, as has been evident in a lot of my recent scum games. I don't think it has ever been the case that scum!me is more chatty, helpful or willing to engage in discussions — I think I was pretty active in Switch (where I was town) for example, while in Pony Mafia (where I was scum), I lurked a lot, and lurking is not something that I try to emulate as scum because I don't think it's a town tell for me. Rather, it is a "there's nothing going on in the game" tell. In this game, that certainly applied for a while at the very beginning (a lot of stuff that can be examined later did happen, but I don't think that any of it was particularly interesting or relevant at that point). Then yuma was caught red-handed playing against his claimed win con, and now I have no idea why he hasn't gotten lynched already or what I could do to change that.
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Ampharos

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1008 on: December 04, 2015, 08:58:51 am »

what you just said

Ok.  I don't really want you to defend yourself.  Like you said, you have done that.  Give me something to work with.  Give me something to partner with you on. 

Lynching Awaclus?  I am totally down.  Let's do it together. 

Lynching faust?  Explain this a bit more for me

I mean, I really like your play, and would miss you on D2.  Just give me someone better to lynch and I will join you.

Okay, I promised I'd respond in the morning, so here we go.

Awaclus.  Important to note that I’ve never played with him before, so I haven’t had a chance to read his playstyle yet.  However, his entrance was in-your-face and random, lots of vote switching quickly.  I find that type of entrance from a player that plays non-standard (which it seems he does) to be indicative of town.  I often find scum people try to tone done the crazy a little bit and make their entrance a little more smooth.  This type of reasoning demands that the player come into the game after a good bit of discussion has started, though.  Crazy at the beginning of the game can just be scum playing crazy and knowing they have plenty of time to work that into town cred.

Now.  All that said, that’s just the read I had on him early on.  Since then, Awaclus hasn’t done too much other than go after Yuma if I recall (again, is there a search function for the thread?).  To me he’s sticking too strongly to his thought process there, firmly committed to the yuma lynch, and that also reads town.  Normally scum back off or at least water-down their lynch desires to an extent. 

I guess I haven’t seen a ton that would make me want to actively push an Awaclus lynch, though I am okay with lynching a lower-activity player, provided there is plenty said about him earlier to give something to work with should they flip town.  I don’t think it’s the best lynch here, but if it came down to it, I’d consider jumping on that wagon (though my general MO is to not jump on wagons unless my vote is needed - I’d rather vote where I want my vote unless I have to vote to dodge a no-lynch).

The more the game goes on, the more I’m not so sure I want a faust vote at this point.  I think my real drive in going at faust earlier was to get people to actually look at him, which really no one was.  There was a while where I felt he wasn’t being that helpful to town and was throwing out peanut-gallery comments, but as of late he’s been more in-line with some of the things I’ve been thinking, and it makes me not so sure I’d want him lynched at this point in the game.  I’m still very very wary of him and refuse to say I’m reading him town, but I’m toning down my “kill kill” mantra.

That begs the question of “who do I want to lynch day 1”.  Which… is a tough question.  The length of this day makes it hard to stick with “teh feelz” reads that normally drive my day 1 votes, since there is so much time to change your tone and manipulate people.  Here’s a list of people and if I would/could vote for them:

2.7 - Probably not at this point.  Reads and feels slightly town and is pretty active.
Awaclus - Possibly.  I’m getting slight town read as explained above, but could be persuaded due to lower activity.
EgorK - Possibly.  Has read slightly scummy but when our wagons were the biggest, didn’t try to push mine as scum often do. 
faust - Possibly.  Explained above.
Haddock - Would vote for him.  Something has felt a bit off all game, probably due to consistent mid-line comments.  Not the strongest Day 1 lynch but I’d be okay with this.
Hydrad - Would vote for him.  He’s all over the place and hasn’t drawn too much fire right now.  People seem to not want to vote him because they aren’t sure how to read him.
iguana - Would not vote.  Reads very town.  I’m possibly blinded here though.
RR - Would not vote.  Reads town, specifically 390.
SS - Would probably not vote. I’m a big proponent of early head to head battles that go on forever being town vs town.  SS vs Iguana is such an example, so I believe him to be town.
Teproc - Possibly.  I’m very wary of Teproc since my initial feelz were at least 50% scum on him, but he’s been pretty town driving lately.
WW - Possibly.  I’m having a really freaking hard time reading WW.  He’s kind of just brash in his comments without any real explanation much of the time, which is sometimes hard to work with.  It could just be a playstyle difference between the two of us.
yuma - Would vote for him (and am).  The last game I was in, Yuma modded.  That means he’s experienced.  I find the timing of his return to be very suspicious, since his wagon was taking off.  Will I feel bad if he’s telling the truth and we lynch him and he was just needing some time away?  Yes, of course.  However, I’ve seen smart scum manipulate emotions like that, and I have no way of knowing if he was telling the truth or not.  We’ve had plenty of opinions on yuma as well, so it wouldn’t be a completely wasted lynch.  I still think this is the strongest place for my vote right now; the potential for a gambit is high in my opinion. 

All that said, if you would like a further in-depth analysis of a specific person, I’d be glad to do so.  I am at work, so it might be delayed, though today is pretty slow and I’m mainly just working on quality-of-life improvements.

Hope this is along the lines of what you’re looking for.
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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1009 on: December 04, 2015, 09:09:47 am »

Now.  All that said, that’s just the read I had on him early on.  Since then, Awaclus hasn’t done too much other than go after Yuma if I recall (again, is there a search function for the thread?)

I go to the "ALL" pages for the thread and then do a "ctrl f" search by user name: so if you wanted to search me, search "goko username: yuma" and that will pull up all of my posts
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faust

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1010 on: December 04, 2015, 09:10:13 am »

The more the game goes on, the more I’m not so sure I want a faust vote at this point.  I think my real drive in going at faust earlier was to get people to actually look at him, which really no one was.  There was a while where I felt he wasn’t being that helpful to town and was throwing out peanut-gallery comments, but as of late he’s been more in-line with some of the things I’ve been thinking, and it makes me not so sure I’d want him lynched at this point in the game.  I’m still very very wary of him and refuse to say I’m reading him town, but I’m toning down my “kill kill” mantra.

Eh... while I appreciate you toning down, I'm not sure you should form reads based on how much people agree with you. Maybe this is not what you meant, but it reads to me like you changed your read on me mainly because of that.
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Ampharos

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1011 on: December 04, 2015, 09:16:52 am »

The more the game goes on, the more I’m not so sure I want a faust vote at this point.  I think my real drive in going at faust earlier was to get people to actually look at him, which really no one was.  There was a while where I felt he wasn’t being that helpful to town and was throwing out peanut-gallery comments, but as of late he’s been more in-line with some of the things I’ve been thinking, and it makes me not so sure I’d want him lynched at this point in the game.  I’m still very very wary of him and refuse to say I’m reading him town, but I’m toning down my “kill kill” mantra.

Eh... while I appreciate you toning down, I'm not sure you should form reads based on how much people agree with you. Maybe this is not what you meant, but it reads to me like you changed your read on me mainly because of that.

You're right.  I will admit my read changed a little bit on you since we're mainly on the same page about yuma, and yes, that is usually not a great thing.  However, part of why my read changed a little is because how you handled the yuma thing, not simply that you were agreeing with me.  It's a little bit more of that proactive faust that I'm used to and would expect from town!faust.  Additionally, people have finally started eyeballing you, which was my primary goal.

All that said, I still am vary wary of you and might revisit this subject later ;)
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Ampharos

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1012 on: December 04, 2015, 09:17:15 am »

Now.  All that said, that’s just the read I had on him early on.  Since then, Awaclus hasn’t done too much other than go after Yuma if I recall (again, is there a search function for the thread?)

I go to the "ALL" pages for the thread and then do a "ctrl f" search by user name: so if you wanted to search me, search "goko username: yuma" and that will pull up all of my posts

Smart!  Thanks!
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Witherweaver

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1013 on: December 04, 2015, 09:18:21 am »

So I think what Awaclus is saying is, we can go ahead and lynch him.
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Awaclus

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1014 on: December 04, 2015, 09:34:11 am »

So I think what Awaclus is saying is, we can go ahead and lynch him.

If by "him" we mean yuma, yes.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1015 on: December 04, 2015, 09:40:39 am »

Cool

Vote: Awaclus
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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1016 on: December 04, 2015, 11:11:58 am »

yuma - Would vote for him (and am).  The last game I was in, Yuma modded.  That means he’s experienced.  I find the timing of his return to be very suspicious, since his wagon was taking off.  Will I feel bad if he’s telling the truth and we lynch him and he was just needing some time away?  Yes, of course.  However, I’ve seen smart scum manipulate emotions like that, and I have no way of knowing if he was telling the truth or not.  We’ve had plenty of opinions on yuma as well, so it wouldn’t be a completely wasted lynch.  I still think this is the strongest place for my vote right now; the potential for a gambit is high in my opinion. 

So.... what exactly in this hypothetical situation was the purpose of this "gambit?" Didn't I already have plenty of towncred before this whole situation began? For what purpose would I need to try and get more? And if I did feel compelled to get more, why choose that method to get it?

And as a side note:
if you are implying that I faked emotions then, well I am just going to say that isn't very nice.

Emotions are still emotions regardless of my alignment. Town can have them. Mafia can have them. Just because someone is mafia doesn't mean they lose the ability to have emotions. I think others should assume emotions are real and valid until proven otherwise. I think if you look back into my previous games, and others can back this up that know me better, I have never once faked emotions as any alignment. That just isn't something that I do. Could I be doing it now? Sure, but I think courtesy dictates that you assume emotions are real, I try to do that, sometimes unsuccessfully, because I know how frustrating it can be to be feeling bad and then have someone come up to you and say... "he doesn't really feel bad, he is just faking it." and that just makes everything worse.
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Haddock

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1017 on: December 04, 2015, 11:19:26 am »

Haddock - Would vote for him.  Something has felt a bit off all game, probably due to consistent mid-line comments.  Not the strongest Day 1 lynch but I’d be okay with this.
This is interesting.  I'm keen to know what you mean by "consistent mid-line comments".  I honestly don't know whether you're accusing me of something there or what you mean...
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The best reason to lynch Haddock is the meltdown we get to witness on the wagon runup. I mean, we should totally wagon him every day just for the lulz.

M Town Wins-Losses (6-2, 75%): 71, 72, 76, 81, 83, 87 - 79, 82.  M Scum Wins-Losses (2-1, 67%): 80, 101 - 70.
RMM Town Wins-Losses (3-1, 75%): 42, 47, 49 - 31.  RMM Scum Wins-Losses (3-3, 50%): 33, 37, 43 - 29, 32, 35.
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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1018 on: December 04, 2015, 11:42:41 am »

Haddock - Would vote for him.  Something has felt a bit off all game, probably due to consistent mid-line comments.  Not the strongest Day 1 lynch but I’d be okay with this.
This is interesting.  I'm keen to know what you mean by "consistent mid-line comments".  I honestly don't know whether you're accusing me of something there or what you mean...

I read that as "nothing has did out to me."  So without an opinion one way or the other, you are a possible lynch
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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1019 on: December 04, 2015, 11:43:02 am »

Haddock - Would vote for him.  Something has felt a bit off all game, probably due to consistent mid-line comments.  Not the strongest Day 1 lynch but I’d be okay with this.
This is interesting.  I'm keen to know what you mean by "consistent mid-line comments".  I honestly don't know whether you're accusing me of something there or what you mean...

I read that as "nothing has did out to me."  So without an opinion one way or the other, you are a possible lynch

*stood. Auto correct
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EgorK

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1020 on: December 04, 2015, 12:45:37 pm »

I am likely to be VLA next 2 days. There is ACM ICPC NEERC over week end and I am one of judges. Because day is quite likely to end during this time I hope to have time to at least scan through replies and vote
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Ampharos

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1021 on: December 04, 2015, 12:51:58 pm »

yuma - Would vote for him (and am).  The last game I was in, Yuma modded.  That means he’s experienced.  I find the timing of his return to be very suspicious, since his wagon was taking off.  Will I feel bad if he’s telling the truth and we lynch him and he was just needing some time away?  Yes, of course.  However, I’ve seen smart scum manipulate emotions like that, and I have no way of knowing if he was telling the truth or not.  We’ve had plenty of opinions on yuma as well, so it wouldn’t be a completely wasted lynch.  I still think this is the strongest place for my vote right now; the potential for a gambit is high in my opinion. 

So.... what exactly in this hypothetical situation was the purpose of this "gambit?" Didn't I already have plenty of towncred before this whole situation began? For what purpose would I need to try and get more? And if I did feel compelled to get more, why choose that method to get it?

And as a side note:
if you are implying that I faked emotions then, well I am just going to say that isn't very nice.

Emotions are still emotions regardless of my alignment. Town can have them. Mafia can have them. Just because someone is mafia doesn't mean they lose the ability to have emotions. I think others should assume emotions are real and valid until proven otherwise. I think if you look back into my previous games, and others can back this up that know me better, I have never once faked emotions as any alignment. That just isn't something that I do. Could I be doing it now? Sure, but I think courtesy dictates that you assume emotions are real, I try to do that, sometimes unsuccessfully, because I know how frustrating it can be to be feeling bad and then have someone come up to you and say... "he doesn't really feel bad, he is just faking it." and that just makes everything worse.

The gambit would be to intentionally get into an argument, get pretend upset, leave, gain invincibility through AtE, and come back later.  I'm not sure how legit that possibility is since you already claimed, but it still is a possibility.  It's also a very low-blow play, so I'd like to assume you wouldn't try it, but I've seen it before.

Also, I typically don't read games that happened before I started playing, so I don't have a whole lot of experience on whether you are the type of person to fake emotions or not.  What I do know is that I've been in multiple games where fake emotions ended up being the case - scum ran the whole game without being suspected because of a fake meltdown.  I wish it was possible to blindly believe all emotions that show up in game, I really do.  I'd like to emulate the courtesy you mention.  However, the lying nature of the game, combined with past experience, makes that impossible for me.  It's not a fun position to be in, trust me: torn between coming across as a heartless jerk and on the other hand losing the integrity of the game.  It's a hard line to walk.

Basically, I'm saying I can't be sure you're not lying, especially since I haven't play with you before.  If your emotions are true, they are 100% legitimate and valuable.  I just can't be sure due to the nature of the game.  No personal insult is meant.

Hope that makes sense.  :)
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Ampharos

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1022 on: December 04, 2015, 12:54:37 pm »

Haddock - Would vote for him.  Something has felt a bit off all game, probably due to consistent mid-line comments.  Not the strongest Day 1 lynch but I’d be okay with this.
This is interesting.  I'm keen to know what you mean by "consistent mid-line comments".  I honestly don't know whether you're accusing me of something there or what you mean...

Basically what e said.  It's not like OMG HE'S SCUM but there is a good possibility - I like to look for scum where you currently sit: in the zone of nothing too dramatic, nothing too out of the ordinary, and reasonable accord with general consensus. 
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Awaclus

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1023 on: December 04, 2015, 12:56:07 pm »

And as a side note:
if you are implying that I faked emotions then, well I am just going to say that isn't very nice.

And you expect us to not lynch you just because it isn't very nice?
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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #1024 on: December 04, 2015, 01:00:57 pm »

The gambit would be to intentionally get into an argument, get pretend upset, leave, gain invincibility through AtE, and come back later.  I'm not sure how legit that possibility is since you already claimed, but it still is a possibility.  It's also a very low-blow play, so I'd like to assume you wouldn't try it, but I've seen it before.

Ok vote: ampharos I would like to be lynched for reasons that are great than a possibility, whatever that means. I think pushing this through with this sort of pseudo logic is scummy
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