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Author Topic: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Town Wins!)  (Read 321977 times)

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silverspawn

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #600 on: November 30, 2015, 07:14:20 pm »

the motivation for scum!yuma to fakeclaim what he did is pretty simple. it's the same as the motivation for town!yuma. He did it for towncred. I really don't see why he shouldn't be capable of doing that as scum.

Sure, it's still worth some town points, but not too many.

The reason why I semi-seriously called you a team was your excessive buddying.

back to vote: ss

I think this is how TA felt about me in GOP where he expected me to make sense, but something was just off (me being scum) so that while it was close I wasn't quite there...

If TA were in this game I think he would be all over this lynch.

since when are you so... cheap?

Anyway, I was looking for reasons you gave for voting me. So far I haven't found anything good.

yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #601 on: November 30, 2015, 07:14:27 pm »

you should also know by now, whenever there is a wagon day 1 on me that I am town and whomever I'm voting for  is scum

you know... I will admit part of this is that 1. I dont' think I have ever been in a game where you were lynched and 2. a game where you were scum

so I don't know this and part of me kinda wants to see if both happen at the same time... cause you are feeling different. I generally don't read you scummy and have been pretty accurate in that...

Actually that isn't true at all...

in the games I have been in that you were involved in that have completed: you modded (Fan Fiction), I modded (RMM), I was scum (GOP), I was scum (GOP)

But mostly you just have felt different than the three games that I have observed you in, but now that I am realizing that I am actually playing with you from a true townie perspective, instead of a mod or a scum pretending to be a scum, I don't know if that feeling holds any water anymore...

unvote
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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #602 on: November 30, 2015, 07:15:41 pm »

since when are you so... cheap?

Anyway, I was looking for reasons you gave for voting me. So far I haven't found anything good.

See the post above this one. And cheap? I have always been cheap... I blame my father.
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silverspawn

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #603 on: November 30, 2015, 07:17:52 pm »

yay!!

Roadrunner7671

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #604 on: November 30, 2015, 07:18:31 pm »

I've never had a town!buddy. 😥
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #605 on: November 30, 2015, 07:19:49 pm »

I suppose Yuma's role could be a scum role.. you get a random extra kill, so actually better for you than for town, though it has a chance of hurting you.  Though, that harm is pretty major.  Yuma is the type of guy that would claim it, as scum, for town credit.  Except, the role as it's claimed is almost not usable for Town, so if scum!Yuma ever does use it it's pretty suspect.  So then the it comes down to just trying to make himself a named townie. 

At any rate, these kinds of early claims are by and large from town, not scum.  Also well within town!Yuma meta.

What pushed me over the edge to give such a strong townread on Yuma was not only the claim of random vigilante, but also the flavor associated with it. Yuma claims to be the hulk, a superhero whose ability is to get angry and go on uncontrollable rampages. How do you translate that into a mafia setup? You make the Hulk a random vigilante. He can turn his power 'on' and kill someone, but then he can't control who he kills. Its a cool power and it fits with the Hulk very well. Could Yuma have made all of that up? Possibly, I guess. But he would have had to do it very quickly and it would have been risky. And as far as I know the Hulk is never evil in the marvel comic universe. He's one of the avengers and always fights on the side of good. At the beginning of the game, we were told that flavor matters and that scum would be given flavor names they could claim. So that implies that the heroes are up against villains, not against other heroes. Again, the Hulk could have been on the list of safe fakeclaims to make, but now we are counting on Yuma to see the Hulk on this list and decide right off the bat that he's going to claim BOTH the hulk & random vigilante. I just don't believe this. It seems really unlikely.

To me, it looks a lot more like a role that the mod thought of over a long period of time, not a fakeclaim that Yuma made up in a single day after learning his role. That is why I gave Yuma so much town credit for his claim. 
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

silverspawn

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #606 on: November 30, 2015, 07:20:31 pm »

See the post above this one. And cheap? I have always been cheap... I blame my father.

I don't think your votes usually feel cheap; that one kinda did because it was extended OMGUS.

But it wasn't really relevant since you voted for me after that. I mostly felt like I was hammering onto a brick wall.

silverspawn

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #607 on: November 30, 2015, 07:23:22 pm »

I've never had a town!buddy. 😥

well... you could have one this game? *nudge nudge*

Roadrunner7671

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #608 on: November 30, 2015, 07:24:41 pm »

I've never had a town!buddy. 😥

well... you could have one this game? *nudge nudge*
*wink wink*
Unvote[/b
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silverspawn

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #609 on: November 30, 2015, 07:26:15 pm »


unfortunately, this is a towny post.

But I think you're really off at one thing - if the Hulk was on a list of fakeclaims, that doesn't make the narrative harder, it makes it easier. Now all that has to happen is for one of the scum who knows the flavor to think up a role. If the fakeclaim wasn't provided, that'd make it harder, because now he has to come up with way more.

yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #610 on: November 30, 2015, 07:26:46 pm »

alright I think I am off wagon for a ss lynch today at least...

but I don't agree with him on iguana... I don't know where that leaves me.

My points about EgorK I felt were pretty weak (I don't think I gave enough credence to the weekend explanation... maybe I jumped the gun there and should have waited to see how his posting would have extended into the mid-week, as that is a valid excuse as either alignment

Those were probably my main two scum reads.
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silverspawn

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #611 on: November 30, 2015, 07:28:06 pm »

but I don't agree with him on iguana...

what part of my case don't you agree with?

I thought it was really good!

Roadrunner7671

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #612 on: November 30, 2015, 07:28:11 pm »

Why did I do that?
Vote: SS
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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #613 on: November 30, 2015, 07:28:25 pm »

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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #614 on: November 30, 2015, 07:29:15 pm »

but I don't agree with him on iguana...

what part of my case don't you agree with?

I thought it was really good!

hmmmm... part of it is an independent town read and the case I can talk about later more in depth. About to eat dinner with the wife and baby. So i'll get back to you.
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iguanaiguana

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #615 on: November 30, 2015, 07:36:46 pm »


unfortunately, this is a towny post.

But I think you're really off at one thing - if the Hulk was on a list of fakeclaims, that doesn't make the narrative harder, it makes it easier. Now all that has to happen is for one of the scum who knows the flavor to think up a role. If the fakeclaim wasn't provided, that'd make it harder, because now he has to come up with way more.

I am not saying that getting a list provided to you makes fakeclaiming harder. I am just saying it is still really hard. Scum!Yuma has only one day to look at a list of possible fakeclaims, see the Hulk, and come up with the idea of the hulk as a random vig.

OTOH, if the claim is true, Ashersky the mod has a long prep-time to carefully pick roles that fit well with heroes. And all that town!Yuma needs to do is recognize that his role gives a lot of credence to him as town, and that it is fairly safe to claim it on D1.

Either situation is possible, but the second one just looks so much more likely to me.
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Point iguana. Not that points really matter with a result, but still.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

Teproc

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #616 on: November 30, 2015, 09:11:43 pm »

vote: Hydrad
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Teproc

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #617 on: November 30, 2015, 09:18:17 pm »

Actually let's skip the unexplained vote thing. It's fun but this game is already too scattered.

Hmm so I have no clue where the votes are. I'm just guessing ss is at around 4? that sounds like a good number to me. So he should be fine.

But now that I'm caught up who do I get to vote for...

lets go Vote: Iguana

This is a scummy, scummy vote. It gets by because Hydrad is Hydrad and he does this all the time but come on. I think Hydrad just says what he thinks all the time, and how does town!Hydrad think "oooh, I'm on a growing wagon, better get off it quickly for no reason".

I'm getting GOP Mafia flashbacks from this, where I let Hydrad get away with it because I kind of gave up any hope of reading him. I think town!Hydrad does at least try to help town when he's doing relevant stuff, and here I'm just getting a "whoopdidoo, who am I gonna vote now ? Who's a popular wagon, let's try that, could be fun".
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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #618 on: November 30, 2015, 09:25:55 pm »

Oke doke Vote: hydrad
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Teproc

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #619 on: November 30, 2015, 09:26:43 pm »

Sheeping is cool.

Vote: Silverspawn

interesting tm(how do I make it small...) a ss wagon. I'm curious to where this goes.

Also, this clearly indicated that he did read my question about his "interesting"* comment, but still didn't find it in him to respond. town!Hydrad cares more than that. He'd have given a wishy-washy answer, yeah, but still.

*For those not in the know, since there are quite a few in this game, there's a running joke on f.ds about "interesting" being Ichimaru Gin's (a mafia player, though it seems he's not playing anymore maybe ?) intellectual property, after I badgered him in a game for using it over and over. I didn't like it because the word, in the contest of mafia, means basically nothing, and is a way of commenting on something without actually saying anything of substance about it. So when Hydrad puts the "tm" after it, I'm guessing that's because I referenced Ichi in this post.

Also, because I darn well want to:

unvote
Vote: faust

I find it interesting how you have egork and haddock as kinda scummy people in your read list and then you vote faust. would you change faust to scummy read if you made another list right now?

You own Ichimaru (can't say IG in this game) some money. What do you mean by "interesting" here ?
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Hydrad

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #620 on: November 30, 2015, 09:43:09 pm »

Actually let's skip the unexplained vote thing. It's fun but this game is already too scattered.

Hmm so I have no clue where the votes are. I'm just guessing ss is at around 4? that sounds like a good number to me. So he should be fine.

But now that I'm caught up who do I get to vote for...

lets go Vote: Iguana

This is a scummy, scummy vote. It gets by because Hydrad is Hydrad and he does this all the time but come on. I think Hydrad just says what he thinks all the time, and how does town!Hydrad think "oooh, I'm on a growing wagon, better get off it quickly for no reason".

I'm getting GOP Mafia flashbacks from this, where I let Hydrad get away with it because I kind of gave up any hope of reading him. I think town!Hydrad does at least try to help town when he's doing relevant stuff, and here I'm just getting a "whoopdidoo, who am I gonna vote now ? Who's a popular wagon, let's try that, could be fun".

hmm I actually forgot I was on silver.
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For anyone else, such a statement would be a scum tell.  For Hydrad, it's simply a tell that you're reading something from Hydrad.

Hydrad

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #621 on: November 30, 2015, 09:44:10 pm »

Sheeping is cool.

Vote: Silverspawn

interesting tm(how do I make it small...) a ss wagon. I'm curious to where this goes.

Also, this clearly indicated that he did read my question about his "interesting"* comment, but still didn't find it in him to respond. town!Hydrad cares more than that. He'd have given a wishy-washy answer, yeah, but still.

*For those not in the know, since there are quite a few in this game, there's a running joke on f.ds about "interesting" being Ichimaru Gin's (a mafia player, though it seems he's not playing anymore maybe ?) intellectual property, after I badgered him in a game for using it over and over. I didn't like it because the word, in the contest of mafia, means basically nothing, and is a way of commenting on something without actually saying anything of substance about it. So when Hydrad puts the "tm" after it, I'm guessing that's because I referenced Ichi in this post.

Also, because I darn well want to:

unvote
Vote: faust

I find it interesting how you have egork and haddock as kinda scummy people in your read list and then you vote faust. would you change faust to scummy read if you made another list right now?

You own Ichimaru (can't say IG in this game) some money. What do you mean by "interesting" here ?

And here ya I saw the PPE in one post. but thought it might confuse people if I jumped post responses in chronological order. So I just didn't respond until I had caught up to it.
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For anyone else, such a statement would be a scum tell.  For Hydrad, it's simply a tell that you're reading something from Hydrad.

Hydrad

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #622 on: November 30, 2015, 09:49:35 pm »

also I'm impressed you knew I would of responded to that.

I was about to but then thought the reply to WW was enough.
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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #623 on: November 30, 2015, 10:22:10 pm »

So scummy things about the igu reads list. there's a lot of stuff early...

Wow, lots happened. Including some reads lists. Now the game feels like it is really moving.

applauding town for making progress is scummy. I'm sure there are some players who do it as town, but I'm reasonably certain that new players are more likely to do it when they're scum. Like, "the game moving, and I'm helping!". Town does not need to say this.

disagree. Town says it often enough. Sure they might not need to say it, but I know I have said it before as town, or at least something similar.

Time to post my own reads list I think.
"... because that will make me towny!"

The claim means a lot. The posts pushing the game further help more. Some people are leaning slight town on Yuma; to me Yuma is the only obv!town player here. Like, I would be really surprised if he was fakeclaiming his role, and scum with a random vig doesn't make any sense at all.
Excessive buddying of a "semi-ic" is undoubtedly a scumtell (for newer players). Have you ever seen a new scum do the opposite?

I feel like here you are working under the assumption that iguana is mafia and then interpreting things he says as if he were mafia. I guess that is one approach. I look at this and am trying to see it an unknown light. It could be what you are saying, or it could simply be that he genuinely thinks I am what I am. That isn't so unreasonable to me. I for one think my claim is extremely townie, and not just because I am the one making it. I wouldn't have made it if I didn't think it would give me more townie credit than scum credit because what is the point of claiming your role like this if it just gets you lynched?

So I don't think it a stretch to see a townie treat me as a semi-IC. I would say that iguana did the same thing to faust in RMM28 where for a good portion of the game he was also a semi-IC. except that I think I am even townier than in that game due to the normal nature of this game and the RMM uncertainty of the other

From here on, it's less clear, but the whole thing is still scummy for being very, very easy to fabricate. This is the kind of list that everyone can write, all day. It pretends to be content, but it's not.

Long, fluffy, and careful. Look at this:

Quote
Haddock: Like a lot of people, I'm having trouble reading Haddock. I want to say that most of his posts seem helpful, and that puts him on the slightly townier side of null for me.

Awaclus & Hydrad: I haven't seen enough from either player to have an opinion one way or another. Would like to see more attention paid to both.

I would also prefer more null reads.

You would prefer more null reads, you say, after he basically gives three null reads? I don't get it

Quote
He's close enough to null that I could still be convinced he's town, but still looking scummier than most other people.

irrks

That was the bulk of it, I think. It is overall just exactly what a new player's scum list will look like.

and I am not sure what you are saying here... I mean I don't get a super townie feel from this list. But that isn't the purpose of these sort of lists. The purpose of these lists is that sometimes they can be useful to go back on during rereads and also for sometimes figuring out if there is enough support for a certain wagon.

I have a town read (mildly strong I would say) from other stuff iguana has posted and this case isn't enough of a catalyst to overcome that activation energy threshold to make me want to vote for him.
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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #624 on: November 30, 2015, 11:38:12 pm »

[rant]

Rant over.

I like this rant.  I totally agree with it, and I totally think it is a perfect thing for scum!faust to do

Man, you just let Faust talk you down. Read your sig!

Eh...

I try not to kick people when they are down? Faust sounds frustrated with all the crap he's been getting lately, and to be fair I'm responsible for a fair portion of that.

It's not like I'm giving him town points for it. But I'd like to see a lot of people get a bit more involved in this game, not just Faust. There is plenty to go off of right now.

Like you, for instance! What exactly has WW contributed again?

This sounds like town to me.

Man, I'm suprised no one has gone after me for lurking.

You aren't lurking.  You have never lurked.

Fair.  I think the standard thing for scum is to try to float by, looking useful without causing too much of a stir.  There are exceptions, (Faust in the RMM game that just finished), but especially for people as myself who have played maybe 15 forum games total, we tend to not get TOO crazy as scum, especially early when not pressure.  Of course, having just said all that, it makes everything I do as potential scum WIFOM, but hey.  That's the game. 

I don't agree with lynching me because you don't know how I play as scum.  You want to lynch someone that either has a good potential of being scum (which really based on my playstyle I wouldn't lynch myself yet if I were another person in this game), or someone who will give boatloads of info on a flip.  Just lynching people cause you don't know how they play isn't very productive. 

Now, if the game goes later and you still have no idea if I'm scum or not, then you seriously start asking yourself: could this guy be scum?  But again you will probably end up realizing I'm not.  Course, I can't make up your mind for you; I'm just being honest about what you will probably end up thinking. 

Good stuff.  As Peyton Manning once said: "I like it."

As I say right now, "I don't like it."  This gives me all sorts of bad feelings about Ampharos being scum.  Like, seriously?  "Lynching people because you don't know their playstyle isn't very productive."  This is not about lynching you.  The conversation has never been about you (up to that point.  I recognize after there is some discussion.  I will get to that later tonight)

But really?  No one is attacking you, and the first thing you do is come out with a defense of yourself.  No one is even voting for you!  Yet you fiercely defend yourself like your life is on the line and we are about to do this terrible mislynch.  THAT is scummy. 

Eh?

SS is voting me, hoping to pressure me into saying something scummy.  Don't worry about it, because he changes votes about as often as... something cliche.  I'm looking to get this over with quickly, so we can get back to scum hunting.  I'll be back when we're ready for that.

I am looking to bring this back up, so we can get back to scum hunting the real scum.  Also, that vote was not a pressure vote.  It was a "I think you are scum vote."  There is a difference.  A while back I classified different reasons for voting.  I am pretty sure this was just a bland old "I think you are scum" vote.

His scum tells are

- Look, I am calmly thinking about the possibility of scum!me, but it doesn't matter, since it's all hypothetical
- LOOK, I TOTALLY DO NOT FEEL PRESSURED BY YOUR VOTE!

These are the most important ones.

There's also

- Look, I consider your scum read on me to be valid
- Look, I am totally calm about the option of lynching me and am judging it objectively
- Obligatory 'you will realize I'm town' near the end

All of those (except maybe the last one if you take it out of context) are more likely to be from fairly new scum than fairly new town

I'M NOT CALM ABOUT THIS POSSIBILITY!!!! IT IS FREAKING ME OUT!
I AM SO TOTALLY PRESSURED BY YOUR VOTE, SO MUCH THAT IT MAKES ME TYPE IN CAPS AND MISS PUNCUTATION!!!111oneoneone

But wait!  For only $29.99 more, you get:

Your scum read of me is totally not valid in any way!
I am peeing my pants cause I'm so scared about getting lynched!
You'll never get the fact that I'm town, so why try?


----------

In all seriousness, that last one is kinda true.  I see what you're doing, but you're just wasting my time (I would say our time but technically you don't know my role, so you get a pass this time.). Go at least look at Teproc.  Also, consider the fact that I'm not that new (around 15 forum games and several hundred irc) and have developed my own playstyle.

(There are 15 scum tells in the above sentences; if you don't get them all, you're scum!!!!1111 one)

This was a fun post.  But notice!  Ampharos basically goes back to the argument that he made BEFORE silverspawn voted him.  The whole, "you don't know me so you can't vote for me" argument.  Which is a fine argument, sure.  However, I think my point stands about defending yourself before anyone has even thought about "attacking" you is scummy.  It is all about self-preservation, not looking for scum.

My big problem with Ampharos claiming to be a veteran here is that he's not really doing anything to help town very much...

I mean, 'take a look at Teproc' does me little good when I already have taken a look at Teproc and what I see is pretty null. What am I supposed to be looking for? 'Teh Feelz'?

I really do like this iguana guy.  Read what I just said.  Ampharos isn't doing anything to help scum with his previous arguments.

iguana trying to get people in gear. thats good. I like iguana here. you get 5 town points. Now how strong are these town points? I have no idea as I haven't created the scale yet but I assure you its good.

Hey everyone, your friendly neighborhood Hydrad is here!

Eh?

SS is voting me, hoping to pressure me into saying something scummy.  Don't worry about it, because he changes votes about as often as... something cliche.  I'm looking to get this over with quickly, so we can get back to scum hunting.  I'll be back when we're ready for that.

Loving this. As in, I like this playstyle, though I'm not entirely sure which way it's going. I really should read games for all the people I don't know. I think I'm back to null on Amphares, this reminded me of me in Chococlate Factory, a reference... one whole person will know in this game. Long story short, I was newbie scum.

I was in chocolate factory too....But yeah.  I like Ampharos' playstyle.  It is fun and energetic and useful in stimulating conversation.

reads lists
more reads lists

I am a sucker for reads lists.  I love when people make them. 

I'd bet my non-existent hat you both are town.

That's interesting; in your previous reads list, iguana and silver only showed up as light town. What changed? Or are you just in a gambling mood?

The more Day 1 consistent headbutting between two people, the more likely they are to be stubborn townies refusing to give up their point.  That behavior draws too much attention.  It's important to note that this is very different than one person relentlessly going after another, and that can easily be a sign of scum on either side of that (i.e. your moves on GKrieg last game).

I really like this point

Could someone summarize the silverspawn case for me?

There is none.  I was really just wondering that myself.  Why are people voting for him.  He seems townie to me.
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Man. I had four strips of bacon yesterday. Was one automatically undercooked, one automatically overcooked? No, let's put a stop to that right here, all four strips were excellent.
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