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Author Topic: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Town Wins!)  (Read 321921 times)

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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #525 on: November 30, 2015, 04:37:49 pm »

Right, I wasn't pointing fingers anyway. To your point : it shouldn't have weight. Because you can't talk about it. Talking about how you can't talk about it defeats the purpose. This thing you're thinking simply cannot be used as an argument, because it's from an ongoing game. The best would simply be to not mention at all I guess.

And that is a fair point and I agree when in a vacuum. But when specifically asked or called out to provide an explanation? I don't know....

like I wasn't going to go around explaining a silent read I had with meta game reasons, but when Egork specifically asks me I need to provide some sort of explanation. i can't just say nothing. I guess I could say "I have reasons but I can't mention them" but that is basically the same thing. But saying, "I have reasons and I don't want to tell you" isn't truthful nor is simply saying nothing.
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Teproc

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #526 on: November 30, 2015, 04:40:11 pm »

Right, I wasn't pointing fingers anyway. To your point : it shouldn't have weight. Because you can't talk about it. Talking about how you can't talk about it defeats the purpose. This thing you're thinking simply cannot be used as an argument, because it's from an ongoing game. The best would simply be to not mention at all I guess.

And that is a fair point and I agree when in a vacuum. But when specifically asked or called out to provide an explanation? I don't know....

like I wasn't going to go around explaining a silent read I had with meta game reasons, but when Egork specifically asks me I need to provide some sort of explanation. i can't just say nothing. I guess I could say "I have reasons but I can't mention them" but that is basically the same thing. But saying, "I have reasons and I don't want to tell you" isn't truthful nor is simply saying nothing.

That's where I would say something vague "I don't know, something doesn't feel right" or whatever. I know it's far from ideal as it misrepresents your actual reasons, but not much can't be done about that if we want to hold to the spirit of the rule.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #527 on: November 30, 2015, 04:42:29 pm »

I suppose Yuma's role could be a scum role.. you get a random extra kill, so actually better for you than for town, though it has a chance of hurting you.  Though, that harm is pretty major.  Yuma is the type of guy that would claim it, as scum, for town credit.  Except, the role as it's claimed is almost not usable for Town, so if scum!Yuma ever does use it it's pretty suspect.  So then the it comes down to just trying to make himself a named townie. 

At any rate, these kinds of early claims are by and large from town, not scum.  Also well within town!Yuma meta.
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Teproc

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #528 on: November 30, 2015, 04:58:07 pm »

Vote Count 1.3:

iguanaiguana (1): Teproc
silverspawn (3): yuma Hydrad, faust
Witherweaver (1): Awaclus
Awaclus (1): iguanaiguana
Ampharos (1): silverspawn
Teproc (1): Ampharos
faust (1): EgorK
Haddock (1): Witherweaver
EgorK (1): Haddock

Not Voting (2): RR, 2.7

Wow. I don't think I have ever seen so many single (1) votes before. That is pretty impressive guys... Well done!

While the vote count is significantly different, it still looks pretty similar to this. It's not a good thing.

More specifically: RR, I think you still haven't voted ? Why is that ?
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #529 on: November 30, 2015, 05:05:11 pm »

There's no reason for me to vote. One vote won't put pressure on anyone, and the people with pressure are people I don't want to lynch.

If you really need me to vote, then Vote: RR
Happy?
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Teproc

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #530 on: November 30, 2015, 05:09:57 pm »

There's no reason for me to vote. One vote won't put pressure on anyone, and the people with pressure are people I don't want to lynch.

If you really need me to vote, then Vote: RR
Happy?

Not particularly, no.

Let me put it this way : how do you think is most likely to be scum in the game right now ?

Let's assume this player has no votes on them (unlikely given the state of things but let's do that). How are they going to get "pressure" if you don't vote for them ? You're just letting everyone else (which does include scum) dictate your behavior at this point, and I'm not sure why you'd do that.
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Teproc

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #531 on: November 30, 2015, 05:10:16 pm »

how is supposed to be "who", obviously.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #532 on: November 30, 2015, 05:17:25 pm »

Okay. Why not?

Vote: Yuma
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Teproc

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #533 on: November 30, 2015, 05:21:36 pm »

Okay. Why not?

Vote: Yuma

Ok. Why do you think yuma is scum ?
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #534 on: November 30, 2015, 05:28:33 pm »

The claim is not like Yuma. He didn't need to do that until later, and normally he wouldn't. This is also a verrrry convenient role if he is scum.

And finally, no one likes this reason, but Yuma is dangerous. He will decide when he Vigs, he probably won't listen to anyone.
He is a good lynch. It's essentially claiming a scummy VT.

I don't have great reasons Teproc, as I don't have scummy reads on anyone.
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yuma

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #535 on: November 30, 2015, 05:35:25 pm »

There's no reason for me to vote. One vote won't put pressure on anyone, and the people with pressure are people I don't want to lynch.

If you really need me to vote, then Vote: RR
Happy?

Vote: RR plus OMGUSx2
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Teproc

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #536 on: November 30, 2015, 05:36:34 pm »

How is it convenient for scum to claim ? This is a closed setup, so far all he/we know/s there are Trackers and Watchers who could catch him targeting someone. It also makes him vulnerable to a Role Cop. As I said earlier, if he ever uses his shot without having at least discussed with the town, then yeah, lynch him. There's also the fact that it's a pretty unlikely role for scum to have, so he would probably have to invent it which... possible, I suppose, but would surprise me.

As I said earlier, he could be a SK, but having an SK around isn't that bad for town.

PPE : yuma, to clarify, this is not your usual self-voting policy vote, right ? Since he switched.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #537 on: November 30, 2015, 05:41:47 pm »

Okay! My 'argument' gets picked apart in seconds. You obviously want me to vote for someone Teproc. We will keep doing this until I hit the nail on the head. So, who is it you want me to vote for?
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Teproc

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #538 on: November 30, 2015, 05:46:47 pm »

Okay! My 'argument' gets picked apart in seconds. You obviously want me to vote for someone Teproc. We will keep doing this until I hit the nail on the head. So, who is it you want me to vote for?

I don't want you to vote for someone specific no. Well I'd prefer if you voted for someone I agree is scummy, but that's not the point. The point is that this is how the game works : you vote, people disagree, people change their minds, and it's all still there later on to be reread once someone flips.

Like, let's say you remain the only person to be willing to lynch yuma, and end up switching your vote later in the day. I guess you would say your vote was useless then, right ?

Nothing could be further from the truth. Let's say later, yuma flips scum. Well then that vote might say something about your alignment to other people, and it might also say something about mine.

Even on a shorter time frame : maybe you'll convince me, maybe you'll convince someone else by arguing with me and there'll be a yuma wagon. In this case it's highly unlikely, but whatever. My point is : voting is the way this game works. If you don't vote, you're not really playing, you're just commenting along.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #539 on: November 30, 2015, 05:49:25 pm »

I have no flippin' idea who to vote for. Silverspawn could squirm under pressure. So let's go there.

Vote: SS
And Teproc, you better hope I'm not scum. Our interaction really looks like scum partners IMO.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #540 on: November 30, 2015, 05:50:29 pm »

And Teproc, you better hope I'm not scum. Our interaction really looks like scum partners IMO.

Haha, this is an awesome thing to say.  I think I'm going to use it.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #541 on: November 30, 2015, 05:51:03 pm »

Sheeping is cool.

Vote: Silverspawn
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faust

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #542 on: November 30, 2015, 05:51:40 pm »

How is it convenient for scum to claim ? This is a closed setup, so far all he/we know/s there are Trackers and Watchers who could catch him targeting someone. It also makes him vulnerable to a Role Cop. As I said earlier, if he ever uses his shot without having at least discussed with the town, then yeah, lynch him. There's also the fact that it's a pretty unlikely role for scum to have, so he would probably have to invent it which... possible, I suppose, but would surprise me.

As I said earlier, he could be a SK, but having an SK around isn't that bad for town.

PPE : yuma, to clarify, this is not your usual self-voting policy vote, right ? Since he switched.

It does go very well with the flavor though. If I was presented with that flavor, I'd probably come up with a similar role.

That said, I think yuma is town. At the very least not D1 lynch material.
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faust

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #543 on: November 30, 2015, 05:53:40 pm »

Could someone summarize the silverspawn case for me?
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Witherweaver

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #544 on: November 30, 2015, 05:53:58 pm »

How is it convenient for scum to claim ? This is a closed setup, so far all he/we know/s there are Trackers and Watchers who could catch him targeting someone. It also makes him vulnerable to a Role Cop. As I said earlier, if he ever uses his shot without having at least discussed with the town, then yeah, lynch him. There's also the fact that it's a pretty unlikely role for scum to have, so he would probably have to invent it which... possible, I suppose, but would surprise me.

As I said earlier, he could be a SK, but having an SK around isn't that bad for town.

PPE : yuma, to clarify, this is not your usual self-voting policy vote, right ? Since he switched.

It does go very well with the flavor though. If I was presented with that flavor, I'd probably come up with a similar role.

That said, I think yuma is town. At the very least not D1 lynch material.

But again, as scum are you going to want to claim something that is essentially antitown?  We're probably not going to want you to verify your role, and it makes your lynch not a big loss. 
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #545 on: November 30, 2015, 05:54:10 pm »

And Teproc, you better hope I'm not scum. Our interaction really looks like scum partners IMO.

Haha, this is an awesome thing to say.  I think I'm going to use it.
How is that awesome? I'm just looking more and more like scum each time I type a message.
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silverspawn

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #546 on: November 30, 2015, 06:00:26 pm »

silverspawn

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #547 on: November 30, 2015, 06:01:03 pm »

which doesn't make your reads any more credible.

can't we be town buddies? at least then you're right on one player.

Witherweaver

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #548 on: November 30, 2015, 06:01:23 pm »

Could someone summarize the silverspawn case for me?

I originally thought he was scummy because of his theory-heavy entry into the game.  Then I started leaning more towards town.  And then recently (today) back towards scum. Something he did in particular was one of those "red flag" things for me.  I'll look for it.


Okay I can't find it at the moment.  But, this:

calling a Hydrad - yuma - iguanda team

I seriously doubt that.

I do too

Nonetheless, vote: igu. His reads list screams scum to me. I'm not sure why yet, but once I know, I'll probably let you know.

among similar threads gives me a feeling of fake "gut" scum hunting.  Mainly, I don't actually believe that Silverspawn is subconsciously screaming "scum!" from that post.  It makes me think that Silver is trying to look town by throwing off a lot of "feelings" posts.  He's also throwing out a lot of votes in different places, which can, of course, be a townie thing to do, but it's also a thing to do because you think that's what you do as town.
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Witherweaver

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Re: M72: Marvel Heroes Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #549 on: November 30, 2015, 06:02:44 pm »

see, this is one of the reasons why you are scummy, although not the most important one.

You think reads lists are towny. So you make a reads list, and now you expect to be towny because of it.

It does not work that way. towniness is not some progressive point gathering, it's a judgement of your alignment. Every scum can sit down and write a reads list. It depends on the content.

That's bad for you both because you have being towny in the forefront of your mind, and because you gave Amph unjustified town points.

Is it Iguana being scummy or actually thinking that?  Just because he says something that could be scummy does not mean it is.  Most everything in this game is WIFOM and up to personal opinion.

I'd bet my non-existent hat you both are town.

eh... what, exactly, is the point of this post?

the concept of non-meta arguments means assuming that X is a scum tell for A because X is a scum tell for most people. Clearly, non-meta arguments can therefore always be wrong, if X is in fact not a scum tell for A. This is a general rule and has nothing to do with my post. Do you suggest that we should stop using any non-meta arguments? If not, then what are you trying to say?

This I have a problem with as well.  "what, exactly, is the point of this post?" is more rhetoric than scumhunting.  Followed by more theory talk. 
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