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[faust]

I was making a sarcastic remark about how it is strange that you picked yuma out of several people who have not gotten scrutiny.

Hilarious.

Let me make what I said there a bit clearer, not that I thought it needed any explanation.

A lot of people seem to be treating yuma as obv!town.  I don't agree with this.
Yuma has not gone under the microscope the way he perhaps should have after his derphammer. 

PPE. Well, I can't argue with gut.  I'm being forced to rely on gut a lot this game, it's seriously confusing.  I'm town though.

I realize now that you are right to an extent... I could really think of any other player who goes without being suspected today. Teproc gets closest, but yuma thinks Teproc is scum, so there's that.

[Witherweaver]

I have trouble believing this since you're trying to lynch me.  Tomorrow are you going to submit to getting lynched?  I somehow doubt it.

Well, I am hopeful that you will flip scum, so then there's no reason to lynch me tormorrow. If you flip town, well yes I am going to fight my lynch, but I am somewhat doubtful about the chances of success there.

Well, if you're really town and really want to get me lynched, I suggest spending some time thinking about that scenario.

[Witherweaver]

Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff. 

Just lynch WW and get this day over with.

So you've given up on scumhunting this game?

[Ampharos]

Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff. 

Just lynch WW and get this day over with.

So you've given up on scumhunting this game?

umad? 

[Witherweaver]

Haddock's reaction to all this is pretty townie.

Why is that?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 2.8:

WW (3): Ampharos, faust, Hydrad
egork (4): iguana, Haddock, yuma, Teproc
faust (1): EgorK
haddock (2): WW, 2.7

Not Voting (1): RR

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day Two ends at 3:00 a.m. on December 19.

[Witherweaver]

Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff. 

Just lynch WW and get this day over with.

So you've given up on scumhunting this game?

umad? 

No, but it's a bit surprising from someone that was apparently so intent on figuring things out this game that they were making spreadsheets.

[Teproc]

Haddock's reaction to all this is pretty townie.

Why is that?

His reaction is that he got the point and wants to move on because
a) it's not nice having people berate you (alignment-neutral)
b) it's distracting from the actual game

I think scum would either go "you're not the boss of me" and stay on Hydrad, or unvote or log off. I don't think they'd cede to the pressure and change their vote back, because they don't want to appear to malleable, as it puts the falseness of their reads in sharp focus.

[Ampharos]

Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff. 

Just lynch WW and get this day over with.

So you've given up on scumhunting this game?

umad? 

No, but it's a bit surprising from someone that was apparently so intent on figuring things out this game that they were making spreadsheets.

I've pretty clearly stated multiple times that I'm tired of what I perceive to be meaningless discussion on minute points of personal playstyle.  I've found my scum and am going full pit bull mode.  "As for advice, get money twice" (okay that wasn't relevant but it's the first Pit Bull quote I could think of)

[Witherweaver]

Haddock's reaction to all this is pretty townie.

Why is that?

His reaction is that he got the point and wants to move on because
a) it's not nice having people berate you (alignment-neutral)
b) it's distracting from the actual game

I think scum would either go "you're not the boss of me" and stay on Hydrad, or unvote or log off. I don't think they'd cede to the pressure and change their vote back, because they don't want to appear to malleable, as it puts the falseness of their reads in sharp focus.

Hm, I'm not sure.  I think continuing to argue (especially against an experienced player) puts more focus on them.

[Witherweaver]

Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff. 

Just lynch WW and get this day over with.

So you've given up on scumhunting this game?

umad? 

No, but it's a bit surprising from someone that was apparently so intent on figuring things out this game that they were making spreadsheets.

I've pretty clearly stated multiple times that I'm tired of what I perceive to be meaningless discussion on minute points of personal playstyle.  I've found my scum and am going full pit bull mode.  "As for advice, get money twice" (okay that wasn't relevant but it's the first Pit Bull quote I could think of)

So that's a "yes" then.

[Ampharos]

Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff. 

Just lynch WW and get this day over with.

So you've given up on scumhunting this game?

umad? 

No, but it's a bit surprising from someone that was apparently so intent on figuring things out this game that they were making spreadsheets.

I've pretty clearly stated multiple times that I'm tired of what I perceive to be meaningless discussion on minute points of personal playstyle.  I've found my scum and am going full pit bull mode.  "As for advice, get money twice" (okay that wasn't relevant but it's the first Pit Bull quote I could think of)

So that's a "yes" then.

[iguanaiguana]

Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff. 

Just lynch WW and get this day over with.

So you've given up on scumhunting this game?

umad? 

No, but it's a bit surprising from someone that was apparently so intent on figuring things out this game that they were making spreadsheets.

I've pretty clearly stated multiple times that I'm tired of what I perceive to be meaningless discussion on minute points of personal playstyle.  I've found my scum and am going full pit bull mode.  "As for advice, get money twice" (okay that wasn't relevant but it's the first Pit Bull quote I could think of)

Ok, this is ridiculous. You suspected Faust the entire game. He and WW both make conflicting claims and now you're positive that it's..... WW who is scum? I know, I know. You gave 'reasons.' But I have a question for you

HOW? HOW ARE YOU SO SURE?

[Teproc]

No need to scream.

[Haddock]

So we've got two wagons here.  (Three if you count mine, hooray!  Note that WW and e are voting in the same place AGAIN, btw.)

I'm believing that faust is town more and more with time.  Redirection being a bit unlikely, that makes WW likely scum.

But it's all double bluffing and mind games with that one.  The main reason I'm not voting WW is because I want PoE to do some work.  Maybe that will happen, maybe it won't.  But that's my reason.  I'm aware it's a bit weak, and could be convinced to vote WW.  But I want some of the people not on the wagons to make their minds up first.   I guess RR said he'd go for Egor? 

No need to scream.

Guilty. 

[Ampharos]

Y'all get so worked up about meaningless stuff. 

Just lynch WW and get this day over with.

So you've given up on scumhunting this game?

umad? 

No, but it's a bit surprising from someone that was apparently so intent on figuring things out this game that they were making spreadsheets.

I've pretty clearly stated multiple times that I'm tired of what I perceive to be meaningless discussion on minute points of personal playstyle.  I've found my scum and am going full pit bull mode.  "As for advice, get money twice" (okay that wasn't relevant but it's the first Pit Bull quote I could think of)

Ok, this is ridiculous. You suspected Faust the entire game. He and WW both make conflicting claims and now you're positive that it's..... WW who is scum? I know, I know. You gave 'reasons.' But I have a question for you

HOW? HOW ARE YOU SO SURE?

I was never sure faust was scum.  I thought something was up with him.  Something was.  I thought for a while about what he said, and when you simply think about what is the most likely scenario, it is that faust is telling the truth and that he caught WW red-handed.  WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected.  The most simple explanation here is that I found what I was looking for from faust, and now believe I found what I'm REALLY looking for here in WW.

If it makes you happy, I'm never 100% sure about anything.  I just play like it, cause why not?  At least I'm not wishywashy and you know clearly where I stand.

So.  Lynch WW. 

PPE: forgot to mention that yes, redirection is unlikely.

[Witherweaver]

WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected. 

Can we please stop making this argument?  It's just straightup bad.

[Ampharos]

WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected. 

Can we please stop making this argument?  It's just straightup bad.

Haven't seen a good explanation for why it's a bad argument.  You easily could have done exactly what I propose.

[Witherweaver]

WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected. 

Can we please stop making this argument?  It's just straightup bad.

Haven't seen a good explanation for why it's a bad argument.  You easily could have done exactly what I propose.

Because it relies on reversal of causality? 

[Teproc]

WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected. 

Can we please stop making this argument?  It's just straightup bad.

Haven't seen a good explanation for why it's a bad argument.  You easily could have done exactly what I propose.

To clarify, is this the "WW is a Mafia Motion Detector with Daredevil as a fakeclaim" argument, or something else ?

[iguanaiguana]

WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected. 

Can we please stop making this argument?  It's just straightup bad.

Haven't seen a good explanation for why it's a bad argument.  You easily could have done exactly what I propose.

To clarify, is this the "WW is a Mafia Motion Detector with Daredevil as a fakeclaim" argument, or something else ?

It's the "WW looked at his past posts and made up a breadcrumb" argument... I think...

[Witherweaver]

WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected. 

Can we please stop making this argument?  It's just straightup bad.

Haven't seen a good explanation for why it's a bad argument.  You easily could have done exactly what I propose.

To clarify, is this the "WW is a Mafia Motion Detector with Daredevil as a fakeclaim" argument, or something else ?

It's the "WW looked at his past posts and made up a breadcrumb" argument... I think...

But why the fuck did I make the post in the first place?

You don't make "hey let me throw this post out there in case I need to make up a fake story later and pretend it's a breadcrumb" posts.  As scum, you are afraid of your posts falling under scrutiny.  You don't just post a bunch of shit and hope that one of them a mgically falls perfectly into place later.

This argument *could* have some merit if you think scum planned to push a massclaim today, so I already figured out my fakeclaim last night and planned to do it all along.  Or if Faust and I are partners in some dumb gambit. 

But the argument as it is is just terrible. 

[2.71828.....]

Yeah. I just dont see those breadcrumbs as made up

[Witherweaver]

WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected. 

Can we please stop making this argument?  It's just straightup bad.

Haven't seen a good explanation for why it's a bad argument.  You easily could have done exactly what I propose.

To clarify, is this the "WW is a Mafia Motion Detector with Daredevil as a fakeclaim" argument, or something else ?

Except I can't be, because I obviously targeted Hydrad.  If I would have Detected Hydrad and done the factional kill on Silverspawn, then Faust would have seen me target both.  Unless I somehow have an additional Ninja kill.

[iguanaiguana]

WW as scum had created a very weak breadcrumb which he could fall back on in any scenario where he was suspected. 

Can we please stop making this argument?  It's just straightup bad.

Haven't seen a good explanation for why it's a bad argument.  You easily could have done exactly what I propose.

To clarify, is this the "WW is a Mafia Motion Detector with Daredevil as a fakeclaim" argument, or something else ?

It's the "WW looked at his past posts and made up a breadcrumb" argument... I think...

But why the fuck did I make the post in the first place?

You don't make "hey let me throw this post out there in case I need to make up a fake story later and pretend it's a breadcrumb" posts.  As scum, you are afraid of your posts falling under scrutiny.  You don't just post a bunch of shit and hope that one of them a mgically falls perfectly into place later.

This argument *could* have some merit if you think scum planned to push a massclaim today, so I already figured out my fakeclaim last night and planned to do it all along.  Or if Faust and I are partners in some dumb gambit. 

But the argument as it is is just terrible.

Ok, so this is a misrepresentation of the original argument that I gave.

This is what I think is at least possible.

On D1, scum!you breadcrumbed daredevil because it was on the list of fakeclaims and you wanted to have your fakeclaim breadcrumbed for D1. This is a trivial argument. Any person who says they have breadcrumbed their flavor could have done this. All this means is that saying "I breadcrumbed my flavor!" and being able to back it up shouldn't give someone a lot of town points.

This is my argument as related to your flavor breadcrumb. In short, I believe it was an authentic breadcrumb, but that doesn't give you town points. Any scum could breadcrumb a fake role from a list. What does give you the most town cred here is that motion detector fits daredevil very well.

What I am arguing in regards to your saying "I don't like a Hydrad lynch today" is that this is too vague of a statement to constitute proven breadcrumbing. You could have made that statement for any number of reasons. And you could have looked back at that statement after you made it and thought "this is what I will latch onto and call my early D2 breadcrumbing of my role's result." It is not a strong enough indication to me that you actually targeted Hydrad and got the result that you claimed to have gotten.

Does all of this somehow make your claim weaker than Faust's? No. Faust's claim is the weaker claim of the two. But neither of them is particularly weak, and neither of them is completely fullproof either. So someone is PROBABLY lying. I just don't know who.